a operation, the aerodynamic began shortly after well want to and last it almost 3 decades. it wasn't a major effort to try and split the ukraine off from the soviet union, u. s. intelligence together with hypnos, executioners, j, and hundreds of savages to be deployed in the soviet union just focused on the east of alberto. so we'll have started with a gm service unions. more than just today. security service of ukraine uses not only the statistic methods, but also the ideology of the nationalist a with

with hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the chinese president's visit to russia is historic for a number of reasons. first to accent, the growing russia, china strategic partnership, and 2nd, to demonstrate what both countries publicly advocate the transition to a multi polar world beyond american hegemony. cross talking russia, china relations. i'm joined by my guess, matthew errand in tokyo. he is a senior fellow at the american university in moscow and director of the rising foundation of canada. in hong kong we have and re lung. he is an international and independent china strategist. and in houston we crossed to robert whose alco he is

a professor of his story at the university of houston, as well as co host of the green and red podcast. i gentlemen crossed out girls and a fact that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate andrew . let me go to you 1st and in hong kong, you know, there's a very interesting jackson position. if you turn on american television, they're all wondering of donald trump is going to be arrested later this week for hush money and things like that. or they're talking about hunter biden's laptop still. and as they are doing that, we have a world historic meeting going on here in moscow with the chinese presidents visit . i mean how out of touch is the. 6 west, when it comes to the burgeoning relationship between moscow and beijing, go ahead. andrew and hong kong. well, i think that the west led by the united states is seized out by the mantra or a that the american lead as

a so called liberal order. and should stay forever and led by american has many because the west is regard of is the best system the world is, should be imposed on all countries. and the whole rivalry with china and, and russia is, is, is hi to be a contest between democracy and authoritarianism. so there was a lot of force rhetoric and our explain why, because as of only about a few days ago, according to the latest research by paris, based on m. r. e dependent research institution called the i, p. s o s. looking at the happiness index of countries around the world as to what extent are people in different countries, are you happy under their government? and guess what?

china came on top and the number 2 is saudi arabia, where these 2 are not democracies, but yet there people have never felt happier than before. so this is because their lives of the as far as time is concerned, that the lives of the vast majority of the people have been miraculously transform under the tutelage of the chinese communist party. but a possible yes. and this has been confirmed also the support of the people, the government on for also by harvard kennedy school study as a year and a half ago. and by the an element e l m a n trust barometer base in new york. so this rhetoric about a contest between democracy or talk receipt as the, the more democracy them upon a country in the world typify a part of united states is the happiest, most successful country. as you just said, i mean, really the president donald trump is about to be arrested. come come here also

for crimes and let alone so immoral acts. well, you know, and that, and now you've been, that's the whole point i was trying to make. i mean, there seems to be and you know, what countries in sync or countries are in sync, which ones aren't. ok. i let me go to a robert in houston. i mean, this is, this is a very important event in the, in the, with the backdrop of china is proposed. they 12 point piece process for, for ukraine. i just recently broker to deal between saudi arabia any ran for president assad, visited moscow recently. there's a lot of things going on in the world here, and it's not necessarily in the west to sees it is a threat to there had gemini, but a lot of other actors welcome this as a real, a realignment to forces in the world. i mean, is something a lot of people in the world actually embrace and are not afraid of go ahead robert

. yeah, that's a key point. the media right now is covered cheaper meetings, but it's all, you know, kind of research, seattle, or rhetoric. and, you know, i think that's when americans don't understand because we kind of get, you know, a very different approach to the war here from the media, which is very much based in kind of moral terms good and evil. and it's very simplistic. ah, but you know it out. i think the rest of the world clearly teaches differently. you know, so you have what you're with united states, but that is presented congress dot only way of looking at things that's clearly not the case of the united states. you know, but weakness war, economically, especially against china per decade or so. now and you know, the are still has a beast economy of the world. the dollars still used for, for global global currency, but trying it out as a manufactured bead on united states. the chinese are trading in asia with russia all over the united states has peach tree bouts with us as well. and so,

and there's p proposal along with the appropriate negotiation coinciding in iran, sho, covered diplomatic offensive as well. what all of these ways united states he's, it's a japanese challenge. it's my teetering. and so it's kind of using the one thing left in his pocket, which is this massive robert budget. robert, don't you find it really interesting is that, you know, just on the last new cycle on fox news, they were the guess we're talking about the loss of american hegemony and i think it's so kind of out of think again, let me go to matthew on this is that the world is tired of american hegemony. that's walk, it's being challenge and that's why different centers of power coming into being particularly the strategic relation ship between russia and china. it's really interesting how the west always finds is threatening, but for the, for other countries, particularly russia and china, they find it liberating to be done with american hegemony. it's really amazing the

different mindsets here. go ahead, matthew. yeah, no, absolutely. i mean, a anglo american i'll say anglo to say infuse a little bit of, i think her, her drama into the causal nexus of the post world war 2 age has been, has had 80 plus years to prove itself and demonstrates its superiority as the best of all possible orders, and what we've seen is just simply hundreds of regime change operations carried out since most a day in iran and, and even in nicaragua before that and all the way up to the present order assassinations of leaders of different heads of state, including america's own leaders who tried to resist this internet this, this deep state, a 5th column built up inside of its heart. so you had a lot of time to prove that this system is the superior order and we've had libya, iraq, syria thrown back into dark age chaos. situations in, in the name of the democracy, building of the rules based international order. and i mean, if you just read the chinese a globe, both a global security initiative,

but also the a, the, a u. s. had gemini and its perils, another document outlining its philosophy of how governance and, and especially on security, should operate back on february 21st and 22nd. it really lays out that look, the only thing it works is when, when cooperation and looking at points of collaboration which manifest in things like iran, saudi arabia on taunts the turkey syria relationship beginning to re heal slowly. right. did this work? africa we're adding the development for africa works. and so i think what we see coming in with shooting things visit ha to russia has been a real hope for the 3rd world and everything. i only want to say the 3rd world. but though the world it's been prevented from developing and become modern for the past . matthew, i refer to it is the global majority. and because that's exactly what it is here, let me go back to andrew in, in hong kong. i guess what really gets american foreign policy people upset is that china is proposing piece around the world. freedom brokering day, you know,

saudi arabia and iran, you know, that that was a tough one to do. the united states was not in a position to do it because it, puget, sides, china didn't choose aside. that's why we have a piece processed there. potential piece process, put it that way. go ahead andrew. well i think that, damn, it's your politics lot usually dictated by philosophies as this dictated, usually about a change of power. our power in them, you can all the power and to political power and all these dynamics are changing all the time. out of the 2nd world war, of course, the only and largest and most powerful country. and i have been the united states and they were happy and able to call the shots. and, and they thought that, ok, i'm less bring china into this system. and so that, and any kind of for cheap goods can be outsourced to china together with the polluting industries. and then they read the best of the benefits. so sitting on

top of the pile, without realizing that china, having joined the w t o as growing this economy, now the 2nd largest and is grown to be the world's largest trader. i had the united states and the largest manufacturer and, and the center of the supply and very chain. and it, everything is always making almost everything is making china. you go to the markets and, and even if the opponent is not mark big in china, taurus, if embedded in, it's somewhere in terms of logistics in terms of components in terms of materials and so, and at that, that's the reality. and then of course china now and seem to be eating american sluggish, no longer exporting only cheap goods, but also high technology goods. and in some measure in this, and then let me jump in here. i want to get, i want to get robert in before we go to the make a andrew brings up an interesting point. i mean,

why does one country have to be number one? why can there be a multi polar world? i mean, that's a, that's what the chinese and the russians are asking. why does, why do we need a head human, robert? know exactly. and especially for the last 30 years, the really guy united states that you know, career or damage. and we're not chow, especially from china, and you have these really great, prob, global warming. you might just release another really dire reports which are being set aside as reserves or rhetoric based on military aggression, special military power masses detached by just because i think like i said that's, that's with us as a lapse. it's his last major, you know, play, which is, you know, military power, no, joey, weapons, billing, michelle. we are weapons basis. all our bases are shakespeare. okay. robert, i have to jump in and we're going to go to a break here. but why do you think being number one, have to be the military? why can it be prosperity or trade? i mean that with some time i'm going to let you get an answer that when we get back

from our break, generally we're gonna go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real news. stay with ah ah, the claims of the king of the belgians leopold the 2nd to the congo where finally authorized by the leading european countries in 1885. in the very heart of the african continent, a state under the rule of the belgian monarch was declared. since the beginning, the congo free state was total may him for the local population and functioned as a universal concentration camp. the majority of the population,

including women and children, were forced to work on the rubber plantations. those who failed to fulfill their quota were beaten and mutilated. to keep the congolese people under control, the king set up the so called worse bleak which wear punitive detachments that cast terror on the captured country and its inhabitants. fearing that their subordinates would simply waste bullets hunting for wild animals, the officers demanded that the soldiers gave an answer for every bullet used. and as proof presented at jap hand of an african. it was not uncommon when trying to justify the use of the ammunition, the colonist amputated the hands of not only those who were dead, but also of those who were kept alive. the atrocious exploitation of the congo turned into a real genocide in only 20 years. the policy of the belgians led to the death of nearly 10000000 people alongside the holocaust,

that genocide of the congo population is considered to be one of the grimmest pages in the history of mankind. this is the engine lake by called more specifically, the island of fallen, also known as the heart of by calling straight away. you can feel something mystical here. a place of you traditions an amazing mix of cultures and people say what, what makes this place so appealing? we're going to speak to some of the most prominent locals of all phone and uncover some of the secrets ah, welcome back. across stock were all things considered on peter le beltran manageable discussing russia, china relations with

. okay, let's go back to robert in, in, in houston. i want you to finish off your answer before we went to our break here. i mean it's, you know, i, you know, matthews already touched on it, robert, but you know that this whole had gemini model with rules based order, whatever that means. it's not working. it's not working for the as the majority of the world. and that's why we see these movements to get away from it, the financial control and the dollar. all of this, because that's just a weapon, it's a cudgel. ok. and more and more countries say they don't want to be fall victim to that they want prosperity and they want security. that's not ideological for the vast majority of the world. but american hegemony as seen in, in, in washington, in london, in brussels, maybe even kev is very ideological. go ahead. robert. yeah, was from united states for america, either one percent of the top 10 percent green agree. crises right now. you know, banking wages, the health care system in the united states and said it really terrible condition

housing debts. and so we moved taking actions that would alleviate the problem because we invited states resurfacing the cold war mccarthy's. and now that will be social, straight up here. with the social is in the u. s. so instead, you know, you kind of make this play for germany based on military strength is military power . you create these, these john quincy adams called the monsters to destroy long ago, right after world war 2. george of the us have 6 percent of the population and 50 percent of the wealth, and our task is to maintain this position of disparity. and that's really still, america policy, you're up to, to, to maintain the power. can you think that grip on power? and it used to sell the idea to americans get prosperity from detroit to steel mills of basis like that. that's not there anymore. now it's based on fear and, and all these other problems that emerge. and so you talk about things like china, russia rather than think global warming, which is obviously great prices for any of the extinction of your tire play on it.

and in the us, we're just not really discussing it or doing much about it. yeah, well i don't really see any meaningful political discussion in the states if you watch cable news anyway. you know, matthew, i started out by talking about, you know, a multi polar world and how both are russia and china working towards it. now i think that's a very smart idea. it's a for security reasons. it's very hard, but it's very practical and pragmatic because the, the, the west war against russia is to take russia out, break it up, and then go take on china and the chinese and the russians both know that. go ahead, matthew. yeah, that's right. i mean, divide and conquer has been the, the age old rogue formula. it's been applied again again for centuries. obviously the nuclear bomb had really distorted or thrown off that formula for the past 80 years. but a big brzezinski sent it directly in 1987 that you know, he laid out the, the designs for what is it something like 12 micro federations,

with s no nationalistic and orientations that should be put under the dominance of the u. s. of the i m f. if the yeltsin doctrine, the soros doctrine that had taken control of russia back the 1980s had been not subverted by actual patriots. nationalists who didn't want to sacrifice their, their heritage on this altar of the new world order. so it, instead again and again in various ways we have similar us think tanks that have images of a carved up china, a highly reduced in size with maybe 6 little micro federations under the control of the world bank. and i m f and trying to cease that the, the ukraine formula is being applied in its own back yard, in the, in the guise of both taiwan and japan, which have their own sort of similarities to ukraine situation in their own way. and any complete, you know, full spectrum military dominance, a military build up around their perimeter, just like in russia. and we have the same discussion in the arctics. we see where

the, where things are going and they see that the u. s. is sitting on the biggest time bomb called the financial bubble. oh yes. only matter. oh yeah, alex's. oh yeah. so that's a big factor. yeah, yeah. i look, look who has problems with dad and i can tell you who's going to be a problem in the world. ok. it, you know, andrew, it, it's very interesting to me is that, you know, um that everyone likes to say that this is a marriage of convenience, the russians and the chinese. but it actually, i look at it this way is that, you know, that russia and china are accused of being a revisionist powers, revisionists powers, actually their status quo powers. they what they want to appeal to the united nations charter. and the rules based order has nothing to do with the, with the un charter, but, you know, with western prop, again, it's actually quite as sophisticated in it ubiquitous, you know. but there is a huge distinction between looking towards the charter and this rules based order andro. well, of course, the am special relationship between russia and china as the product of,

of soap road, very powerful with dynamic forces. first of all, the relationship already started very close. relationship will really started well before the current. and you claim, whoa, i mean, and because both countries are extremely complementary. economically, russia has been the world's largest one that it was largest exporter. oh, energy and all gas and oil, and as well as minerals, but also agricultural products. and russia is the world largest exporter of agricultural fertilizes. and then china is the world's largest customer, but both the both energy and the agricultural products. so actually the 2 countries are intertwined together. well, the ford are you paying more now and then andrew andrew, i'd like to point out that neither one of these countries want to export their

model to the other one. okay, that's a, a respect of sovereignty and k. and again, that doesn't go along with the rules base order because you, everyone has to be recreated in the image of the, the liberal order which the world does not want. we know that. okay. yeah, let me go, let me go to robert. right now. it interest in reading the pages of politico. it's interesting that the zalinski regime is very hesitant to criticize china. so we have a client state 100 percent client state of the west of the united states. and they are hesitating now because they see the role that russia and china are playing on the world state. it tells you everything you really need to know. a client state is beginning. that wants to hedge their bets. very interesting, robert, go ahead. yeah. china is that they, did she say, sure, american policy makers more anything else? because china is now

a threat to american germany. american power especially can all of our manufacturing trade, everything else. and so that's why talks really be shot out of us before they begin to wall street journal, the official war, going to be american ruling elite. they said, you know, dr. a not start with you know, the chinese model has worked that, as you pointed out, i think it's kind of what the us did it. the end of the 19th 20th century is sending out trade sheets and sending out diplomats building road initiative. the general, these piece docs between the saudis and iran ears. and so would say, hey, we know, you know, in central and central asia and out in the middle east to say we have something to offer you. and your right is not really based on, you know, kind of a commitment to have the same kind of political system or politically. all it hits this idea, you know, united states called the open door, you know, at the end of the 20th century 19th, 20th and early 20th century. and that's kind of what the chinese are doing. they're not saying, hey. ready going to come in here,

we're going to blow you to bed. we're going to say you military what we're fine. proxy armies. ready they're saying is we're gonna, you know, extend trade, we're going to help you develop some kind of manufacturing based that will help you know, the word back of the 20 central would be modernized and it's working, you know, and much of the world now. china has this diplomatic initiative, is this political issue that obviously terrifies united states now? and so, you know, you have issues like ukraine, which has been a real boom for great beyond general dynamics. and companies like that for beta, right? it gives a reason to adjust another reason to exist but. ready for the globe interview, for the people in the united states here, like i said before, we're not benefiting from this this military industrial complex either. you know, you could say in the 50s or sixties, the u. s. was typical american was but now you know, personal, that student, that deteriorated health care system, horrible infrastructure train derailments every day. horrible. you know, pollution problems. so it's a fairly great political crisis in the united states is focusing on these parks between your you know, kind of it,

it's taking these ancillary issues with blowing up or rather. ready dealing with the, with the real problems we face, which is, you know, absolutely. now a really significant child for this, the liberal order, as well as an alternative to this kind of american you know, system is what i mean. i mean, it, you know, they need liberal order. it's just as bad for the united states as it is for other countries. exactly. that. yeah. yeah, yeah. i mean, i, for the life of me why the american congress pays ukrainian pensions, but it won't take care of pensioners in america or veterans or any other group. ok, really? yeah. so are billions around, but nobody for palestine is trained. goodbye matthew. you know, one of the, one of the biggest difference we see right now is that, you know, ever since the end of the cold war, the great powers didn't confront each other. they had proxy wars all over the place

here. they didn't go toe to toe, but now we see elements within the american administration and want to go toe to toe with russia and china at the same time. the great powers traditionally don't go after each other. you know why? because you can fail. it's existential. that's why we live in a very dangerous time. we have great powers, the united states confronting other great powers that's. that's a no no, because you can lose matthew. yeah, no, absolutely. i mean, again, as i mentioned earlier, the, the advent of the nuclear bomb really change the calculus of how global empire could ever function again and for throughout the cold war period of the mutually assured destruction of formula that was set out by folk like bertrand russell it sorta had a balance of terror that didn't result in destroying everything. but now we're at a point where we have a systemic break. and i think that that factor of the transatlantic systemic banking meltdown. but it's much of the banking, the physical in struck the physical means of production,

which have been atrophied consistently for 50 plus years. are now variables that are shaping the thinking of certain fanatics who unfortunately have access to the launch mechanisms of many of these nuclear warheads who can do nothing but doubled down on the script that they had laid out back in 109192. when the world was one, it was the, you know, end of nation states and one world government was here and of history. and they seem to still hold on to the delusion at that script still applies to the current aid. despite the fact that reality has completely changed from their ivory tower. and i think you see some signs of major infighting amongst different factions of oligarchical interest. right now we're some are saying, oh well maybe we should like live to fight another day to board this plan. i think the jeffrey sachs angle is, is playing a role in that. and then on other angles, you have the more fanatical neil con, drive of just, you know, we can do nothing but what we're program to do, which is had gemini, was no negotiation. and that's scary. it's a very, very proud of that. so we end the program. it's scary, it's certainly as gentleman,

it's all the time. we have a want to thank my guest and toko houston and in hong kong, and want to thank our viewers for watching us here. and archie, see you next time. remember rostock rolls ah ah, ah, in each of come to russian state total narrative as tight as unfolding those landscape div. mm hm. then i can also send them a group in the 55 with okay, so mine is professional speaking. when else calls about this, even though we will man in the european union the kremlin jeff machine stays on brush up to date and even our video

agency roughly all day on to on youtube, a with ah watch, and it was a in a shag now shorter one, and i'm not trying to stay like a national z. m. let's just shyly yours in there, but you bought it when you sit on with the buy mia

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