because i was part of that cnn. i interviewed mr. hersch on several occasions at cnn. apparently they don't do that anymore. let me show you something if see, and i did want a reason to look into whether our government had something to do with the destruction of the georgia dream pipelines. all they really had to do was go into their own coverage coverage of mr. biden saying this, if russian vase that means tanks or troops crossing the on the border of ukraine again, then there will be we, there will be no longer a nor stream to we will bring an end of it. but how will you, how will you do that exactly, since the project and controller to protect us with in germany's control, we will, i promise you will be able to do you got all of this marker

that was after, according to mr. hirsch's reporting, mr. biden had already been involved in meetings on how possibly they would destroy the pipelines by the way, you got to love just the way he presents it. right? and then one final thing about why the, her story should probably not have been ignored. and this is important because i know many of you are watching us from all over the world, probably millions and millions and millions of you and, and maybe you're not familiar with mr. hersh. maybe you're not familiar with mr. hurst his work. so let me add something. seymour hersh is journalistically speaking a legit. and this may sound almost weird because it doesn't happen any more. it seems like it doesn't happen any more or less. but reporters are supposed to question their government's leaders. not to p. r for them. in fact, they're supposed to have an adversarial relationship with them. that's a, we're actually trott when we, when we study the stuff in journalism school, have an adversarial relationship. sy hersh a petima epitomizes that type of journalism. mean this guy broke the meal. i

massacre story exposing lies on our military told which helped to bring an end of the vietnam war. he broke the abu ghraib story exposing the futility of the iraq war. he was in the pentagon papers of the watergate, henry kissinger syria said i could go on. in fact, in large measure the story matters. i mean, i'd say this story matters. i have to say this because of sy hersh. and yet journalistically speaking, the guy's kind of a legend, and he's also good enough to join us now to talk about some of his a latest reporting. i thanks so much for being with us. you better tell everybody were not brothers in law. pretty overwhelmed. deduction. yeah, you have to be for the class of people who believe in journalism, which doesn't seem to be the class that exists. i think in all fairness, trump scared the hell out of and most of the most of them, most of the, the more or less straight press acreage is terrified by it. so they're back,

you know, that's, that's just one reason. but you know, i said i work for the new york times, just 7 or 8 years and wrote all kinds of stories and, and i would say of the $800.00 stories or whatever, maybe 5 percent had a source in that by name. most of them were written because you can't get people in the community. so the, the rap i me at this story was unnamed sources which is really tiresome. because you know, how could, and the fact a story, you mentioned that the, that the times wrote the recorder sort of disavowed what you even written. that had 3 names, sources in it too. it's just, so we're in a really funny stages. it's a post trump stage there, i think the new york times and the washington post the liberal media and i would, i would include cnn and m. s. nbc. as opposed to fox news. i must say tucker carlson and foxes reported what i wrote right away. right. up front. yeah. but the other man enters, didn't, you know, they just did not and asked me if to said it or the house have done anything about

of the democratic senate, chuck schumer, thou speaker, the idea that they would ask for an investigation into a democratic president. we've come a long wait wrong in the last $34.00. let us go, let's go to this latest story and i would love to know what you think from your own experiential standpoint of why the united states seems to have and i'll use this word and you tell me if it's over used in this case, invented or planted this most recent story. why are they doing this? because they the, the united states, those who did it, they know the president did it. you know, another way of asking this question that no reporter is asking a press conference. the, the we blow up the pipeline and pipe and biden's. okay. a group of ca, officers and other agencies are put together. and really this

year, last year, a year ago at this time and they did the, they did the hard work in norway. i've written about that, but so after you know, all you have to do get is to ask if you're in a white house press corps, said the president or to the press secretary, one day, have you guys ever done as the president of or tasks? that's the word they used in the military and the intelligence community, the white house, and, and test them to do all sorts study of who did the bomb, blew it up. and you know, we have incredible intelligence. we have signals intelligence, we have assets, we have most of the countries in europe work with us. we could have, we could have had an answer that, sorry, you know, in a few days. but of course nobody's asked and the white house is not going to do it because they know who did. why asked to do it, why have it on the record? so it's all and the story is falling apart and there's pressure. what happened? do you think so? so very few of us seem to want to cover this story. and when i read the

story that you wrote, it's a fascinating story. and what i find best about the story is it's fairly detailed. you have conversations, meetings, dates, et cetera, et cetera. it's hard to question that. and yet it seems to be taking a long time for people to say, oh my god, we did it again. our government or cia did something we probably should have done at the, at the order of the president. and in the story, i wrote the last sentence, if i remembered that this is the initial story written, i've been writing for a subset for not that i didn't know much about. it's quite a, it's quite a medium. i think a to me and his and his story within 20 hours. that's because there's a lot of journalism that isn't being happened. is it going out right now? and there are many people and i'm not just in america, this is that international thing. many people around the world understand that they're not getting from the american press and the new york time, washington post to kind of report the mission, get particularly on the war. if you read the new york times, you would think that,

you know what mom is doing quite well, but it's, it's going to be could call. and that doesn't mean like, you know, this started the 1st bloody is worried head in western europe since world war 2. and you can't, you could always fault him for that. it's not about that. it's about us, you know, and, and by the president's my explanation for what's going on is biting, is these he wants to be re elected again, is, is, are for command, we can see it. i mean, he's ok, but he's not in for command. he's tire is, is close to 80 and and there's a lot of problems in the countries not dealing with. and presidents always find that war is a big plus when you go to war, you get a lot of points. you always are. bill clinton learned this in the worst days of his presidency once he thought of bombing a bomb guy rack. what 5 months into the presidency when he was under great trouble

because of his demand at the army accepts don't ask, don't tell. remember he was being red. sure to criticize. yeah. and he didn't have to say he did not have the guts to tell it the members of the joint chief, if you don't like my policy, give me your resignation, said he just waffled on. when he did a bombing in may, i remember i was at a ballpark, but my kid, there was announcer made anybody know, go home. i was that a must have been both to go home. and so i knew something was up and i was then working for the new york. well yeah, new yorker and a magazine. and the next day, sure enough they had bomb. baghdad killed a people. and the 1st time america had ever struck a major city in the middle east. the next day he goes to church, and sunday was a saturday that the bombing took place. he goes to church, and he's a hero. the presser all over there, all over, every word that works or so by jumped on ukraine. he's got a subordinate. what,

not just on ukraine, upside. i mean, then this particular case that you write about, i mean we go to norway, we find divers, we take the ones here in my stay. pensacola area, florida. we combine them, we send them on this mission, they go 260 feet under ground. they plat, essentially bombs, c for on concrete blow up these things. this whole story is i don't know like a something out of a double. 07 movie. and yet we're doing it thinking no one's going to find out what i could tell you. one thing about the cia when it wants to do something down and dirty, they know how to keep it. they know how to keep it small. that you know what i'm saying. yeah. the people who know very small and the president wasn't really getting briefed. the cia director was the funnel point. yeah, the guys in the field and the less that the white house knows the better because it's a talkative white house. and so the president knew they were ready to do it. that's

why they buy so. so you mind it was talking directly to the operational guys and that said, none of his chief of staff or the rest of those folks were really involved in this because they would have, it would have leaked. well that the fear was the, you know, we happen to have a very unique bunch of guys are all very, very anti communist and they're yapping a lot. and we have a, a secretary of state who was supposed to go to beijing to meet his counterpart. and he didn't go because of a balloon, you know, remember that he didn't go because of a balloon on how you, kitty, me, and we are very hostile to all things. some communists were very hostile. the chinese, the language is very, the language is enough to provoke to hello everybody. and you know, we're in a situation now we're, we're not top dogs. what happened in the last couple of last month? china cut a deal with saudi arabia. sunni. yeah. and so need to go to shia iran and cut a deal for oil and energy right behind her back. and natalie that i'm told that i

think it's probably gonna happen soon. china, which buys about 20 to 25 percent of saudi arabia, is enormous, of oil they put out, is going to start paying and yen and not in a dollar. and so what is saudi, it, what is where the saudi arabia and out of it, the iranians then cut back on their people. they support in yemen, the hotties and the war ends. there really is so much to talk about. we're speaking with legendary investigative journalist seymour hersh ah side, do me a favor, stick around when we come back a little deeper dive into this conversation. this is after we come back from break, but before we go, i want to let you know i have a podcast where as a journalist, as latino, as an entrepreneur, i tell my story and i share some the things i learned good and bad. plenty of bad. it's called the rick sanchez podcast. i invite you to check it out. don't go it. ah.

lou needs to come to the russian state will never be as tight as i phone and the most lansky div asking him then i'll send them up with 55 when. okay, so mine is 25 and speaking with ben in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on to russia for date and split our t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and with

me. alteration aerodynamic began shortly after. well want to last it almost 3 decades. it wasn't a major effort to try and split the ukraine off from the soviet union, u. s. intelligence. together with hypnos, executioners trained hundreds of saboteurs to be deployed in the soviet union, stalkers on that east of alberto. so we'll have started with this with you on server shootings. one yes, today's security service of ukraine use is not only the statistic methods, but also the ideology of the nationalist a

with ah, with ah, ah.

water back on mac, sanchez, we're talking with the investigative journalist, seymour hersh, but his recent work uncovering who was behind the north stream, pipelines, destruction, and we were turned now. you know, sy, i mentioned this a little while ago, but as i was reading your story, i was thinking, i would hope that we still have people within our own government. maybe people in the intelligence community who feel the need, the desire to speak out when they see some of the things that, that, that we do that, that we ought to know about. that our question, i imagine that is what led some of the people to talk to you. am i right, i'll put it another way because i don't like to talk specifically about anything, but after i did meal, i mean like was a massacre we did. yeah. in the and i've been in the army and my, i'm old enough that i had to go in the army compulsory and i know how to shoot an m

one. you know, put together machine gun, but my, my eyes blindfolded. so i, i couldn't imagine the army that i was in, in the early fifties, was army capable of murdering 500 people in cold blood and not only murdering but raping the woman and then mutilating many of them really horrible stuff. and i can't imagine it and, and so when i did that story, almost anybody who had any sense in vietnam, the officers in particular they knew how bad it was. and so i was a voice for them. so over the next, you know, when i went on to write for the new yorker magazine and the new york times, etc, the people come to me and our government is full of people like this. not in the intelligence service in the state department. i mean, everywhere, when you take the oath of office in america, you have to do it every year, right. at a certain offices do these guys. it's for them. it's not to the general or the admiral or the to the president is the constitution. and there are those people

there and you know, if you're a 3rd, 3rd, a 3rd generation american or 4th generation whose the, whose family has been in war and been in combat for america. you go in there happily. and then you get rather than get disillusion, you do you do your job, but you do have, you do have a sense that there is that your, i just can't get into source up and you're, you're not wrong in the idea that the people i talked to are people that want their job to be better and i'll put it another way they want their president to make better choices. i don't think that i think that's fair enough. you right. well, you're right about a course correction by the way that i was fascinated by. they had really originally planned to blow the things up within 48 hours. and then somehow there was some information sent to them saying no, apparently because we were doing military exercises just prior to that and seem like a whole world would no, soon as a military exercise, then something blows up was. was that the reason and take me through that if you

could. the whole idea was the problem was the difficulty of the emission and it was, by the way, what, what the intelligence community did. there was quite spectacular, even though that they, they didn't like the end, but they were given assignment come up with an option. if you want to blow up the pipelines, you have to do it in such a way that we can't people aimed right. and what they, what they wanted to do, the fear was that at some point, as a, as a war, ukrainian war against russia continued. and despite all the optimistic report you get from my old newspaper, the new york times where i work, 7 or 8 years, it was a great newspaper back then i don't know why they're in this tack. they are now of just being sort of a playpen playboy for the, for the democrats in the white house, which they are enlarge. the war is by september when, when biden said, let's do it and gave the order. the war was certainly sold out. and we put now

12015120 1000000000 dollars into that war. and western europe was being asked to give more and more. and the concern was, they could see in western europe. and in germany, what we want being told too much at this war was going nowhere so, so they were concerned if it blew up right after our ships or our military exercises that we were doing there happened. everybody would know we weren't exactly right about that. so the idea was the weight, but why you picked 3 months and 3 and a half months. the wait was the question, i wonder why did you suddenly do it in late september? because to get back to the point the war wasn't going well. and even though the press was describing how ukraine was really great, wonderful standing up, wish they were. i mean, they don't like russian anymore than america. like putting the russians are different. yeah. which is a good government is we're not talking about people. we're talking government right, but so what happened is the, all the best guess i have the best guess the people who were involved in this were

dissolution by it. as he was afraid that europe was going to begin the walk away, particularly the germans, germans, after world war 2 are not interested in the big military. and they were being asked to produce more tanks and, and the pipeline that, that shows control full of gas. and windows coming up now happened to be a mild winter was, which is okay. but winter is coming up for europe. and yeah, was he was going to open up the pipeline and make us do his job as chancellor. he was going to make the people warm, make the businesses happy, and so we didn't give him that option. we took away the option by just the only explanation, it makes sense to me and other a lot of other people involved is that he a blew up the pipeline whether schultz knew about it at the time or not is not clear. i don't know, but he certainly afterwards is not been. he's not been part of the, the people screaming for an investigation. he's done anything to stop it. and so what western europe, we always had,

western europe doesn't have the gas and oil. we've always had western europe back, you know, we support at west and it's been a model of the marker, see what we did after world war two's. we really turned a lot of countries. jim, at all european countries in the model with this action, are we side leaving them out in the cold quite literally leaving them out in the garden. it's desperate there. now it's inflation like you've never seen. they, they're trying to get by with l. n. g, liquified national gas doesn't produce it. and it costs $34.00 times as much. that was going to have enough gas to keep their people warm and not only in germany, but western europe. the russia gas is so much that germany was able to sell what they called downstream. they had companies sell the russian gas, so we have to much up downstream to other companies. so all gone now in france right now, they're paying 5. some places are paying 5 times as much for electricity because they've always had gas and ever from germany. turbines that produce electricity or

run by gas, bye call. and they checked on some nuclear sites. they may, we opened but they shut them down because they were dangerous. i gotta ask you, i gotta ask you about the existential potential, like the central effect of something like this. i worry, as an american, look, i don't want world war 3. okay. i don't want to go to war with china. i don't want to go to war with russia, but it scares me to think that my beloved country would be doing something like this, where we would destroy the infrastructure of another country, no less a country with more nuclear warheads than we have and, and the potential effect that could have oftentimes, the 1st act in wars is the destruction of infrastructure. well, my god, if we did this as you report, that's exactly what this is. how worried should we be about this? when you kind of, you know, you're, you know, you're, you're, you're my, you're in my pitch man on the surf. man. that's great,

that's exactly what we're done. and i don't think by thought through the consequences of the hatred of russia nature, the communism. and don't forget the war for him in the beginning. everybody was for let's go show the commies. yeah, but it's not work. well. the sanctions haven't worked. mcdonald's may be gone, but they're still people selling hamburgers there. and the country is not dying. it's a period of people are living. i'm sure it's the economy's down a little bit. he's not getting the same money, but he's making do with me. i'm just made me think of something. do you think? if the american people knew that we did this rather than not knowing because they watch cnn and m. s nbc and fox and read the new york times. and there's no way that they can know unless you know, they're very small minority. do you think of our people, if we americans knew what we did, we would hold it against our government right now. we would call biden to question for it. i think it's, i, it's not happening now because they don't know really very much about it. there's

been no press coverage. right. and you know, i'm, i'm a guy to one off my wife and i b hang up, any prices anywhere? i got boxes. no, none of them in the house. i went awful lot of prices in my life and and that's what i might do or we're americans don't have to act on this type of information if we work the no, i don't know. oh no. is that. i know is that the kind of comment is i'm in the language that comes out of by and it's secretary state blinking and is national security advisor jake sullivan, who is a big push for expanding nato in his earlier life. and the under secretary of state, victoria new torino responses and involved in the overthrow of a pro russia. and 8 years ago, 2014, i call that gang went blinking, blinking, blinking. and you know, as a child worried because they're all on the same page,

simon is, i'm sorry, screaming and yet, you know, what can i tell you? you're great and i'm sorry to say we're out of time. we could, we could, i know, i won't say one more thing. you can cut it if you have to go ahead this, this summer and fall is going to be a disaster for europe. and it's going to be fond by and said, and what do you want to do is to lock up a chance reelection or be re nominated? he's going to blow it. he's going to blow and it's not gonna happen. he's your word, your prediction, seymour hersh shop. legendary old world journalist, as we like to say, there may be a few of us left. thank you. thank you. sigh for joining us and sharing your wisdom and your knowledge. just teach me how to think if i would pretty but because i haven't done it yet. that's what i want you to get my buddy. well said we so appreciate it. before we go, i want to remind you our mission here. it's pretty simple. we kind of want to de silo the world. we've got to stop living in these little boxes truths. don't live in boxes, they're everywhere. i'm rick sanchez. i'll be looking for you again right here.

where i hope to provide you with a direct impact. ah ah ah, real sampler water is thrown in the old order but when the snow falls apart stokum, this comes with idealists when sprung from ours from them to low will do it in. yeah. and bt. do shane, you could keep the way in the poly teachers kills on the edge on the, on a ship or was to limit, i'm done with this in a little bolcom in the crucial chest middle school. i was meaning to

t. bone is not good. p t d still not off with what they need. they will lit up. she's with us. when you go see she'll be missed anything and that'll set them up and you can give us his net. did he do it? he is a battle. certainly don't see this material, but he just tossed up even in the so great, you need to locate those. my job is to look me. it doesn't help out with them. you have yet to me, she go, she returned with dr. young this maritza to handle most of his emotional speech with the issue was appointing. it took a little of doing piecemeal. mm. well, i

can go into, can i add some with people to the kilometer luck with that you found that i owed them a a gets a constituent making a bit. so it, it a with

talk good to yes, i'm one of those a bad word order. it now you are seeing in you create the lock desk, but by d americans. and if you will, wester my light bill, please try to re being that order. it's a more be didn't order religion with ah, vladimir putin phase. russia will deployed nuclear weapons in neighboring belo,

bruce quote, and get a similar move to well, the us does with some of its nato allies. it will not hand over the weapons to belch just as the u. s. doesn't to, it's penalize we are simply doing what they have been doing for decades. the by that administration blew up the node stream pipelines to rein in western europe, which rely on cheap russian gas. the latest claim from renowned investigative journalist seymour her pipeline that shows control full of.