drug transaction, or to arrest a major drug kingpin. the operation goes bad. the bad guy gets away, and a senior cia officer pops up in the scene. i know from my experience of 15 years to see that the scenario was completely true and accurate. the d. e, a 's mission is to stop the flow of drugs into the united states and to prosecute those people who are responsible. the c i, a mission is essentially to do whatever at once with little or no oversight. the ca . busy has long been obsessed with communism and beyond that, with terrorism. if drug came pins are willing to identify communist and alleged terrorists than the c i is willing to cast a slot with drug king pins. and the d. e a is supposed to just sit there and take it. we're going to talk about this relationship with our next guest. michael levine has been described in the u. s. media as america's top undercover cop for 25 years . a career veteran of the drug enforcement administration. he's

a respected author and lecturer, having appeared as an expert witness in more than 500 civil and criminal trials in the u. s. and abroad. he's lectured on the undercover operations in human intelligence for the u. s. defense intelligence agency and the federal bureau of investigations advanced under cover seminar as well as for the new york state division of criminal justice services and the royal canadian mounted police. there aren't many people in the world who know more about undercover operations than michael levine. michael, thank you so much for joining us. my pleasure at sun. i have so many questions for you that i barely know where to start. i suppose we should begin with this relationship that the cia seems to have had for decades with people and organizations that are active targets of the da. i remember when i was at the cia drugs were of literally no concern to us transferring into the cia counter narcotics center was considered to be a career ending move. and as it turned out,

the cia was working against the d. e. a for much of that time. tell us about that. well, i'm going to give you my personal experiences and as i would for with testifying in court, i initiated a case while i was these d. a station chief wen went to cyrus, imagined tina. and the case was into a member, the name of hubbard pope suarez roberto suarez subsequently was called the biggest drug dealer alive before secret session of congress. da. at that time, didn't even know it was when i got involved with suarez. i learned that he was dealing massive amounts of cocaine all over the world. he was literally controlling the flow of cocaine globally. as i started

reporting this to the drug enforcement administration, my 1st orders came down that i was to open my files to central intelligence. my, this meant that i opened this massive wall sized wall and they just came at their will with, from the station within the embassy and began to go through the files, the re berto suarez case began to make copies take them. there was nothing i could say i had been ordered by dee to open those files. so it's kind of ironic that after i retired from d e, again writing a i put a foyer request. let's see i for my, my files. anything that are under my name and it came back, we have not. i see what i found out in working the roberta, worst case,

strange things started to happen at the differentiates between deep cover and undercover. anybody who puts on a suit and carries a gun, calls himself an undercover agent. a deep cover agent is the guy who goes into the enemy's church and seduces him literally out of his life. i you in d a comments they have when you get on the radio, when you're at the coverage, you say i'm going in often those are the last words of that man. the undercover agents are the people who say outside and score, i quote, cover the deep cover man. it at which they really can't do it often. what happens is they do a batch job of covering the, the, the deep cover asian guys inside see them outside getting burned as you know

what that means. sure. they get burns and the agent dies. consequently, yes, you will, you will read about none of this in the newspaper. with the rebels, worst case, what began, how it began to manifest their presence in the case was d e a headquarters assigned us a claim that really couldn't do the mission. that is the mission in this particular case, it was the 1st time that was done was to fly a plane into the jungles of bolivia. pick up the 1st load of cocaine from roberto suarez and there deliver them to the united states. the pilots came to me and this is all in my book. the big white lie, which is this. so silly and the

the pilot came to me and said, displaying is the wrong place. not only that, it's got an end number that was used to ferry bolivian police no a couple of years ago. but the, this is all in the book and if you go to a book like level reading, you know that you go through a more stringent proof of what you put in then any, any case you would present. and course, you know, yes was money, money money's involved. well, the, we, and this is captured in the book. i told the guy so got to actually get on the plane and fly in to the jungles and said, i wouldn't blame you. he didn't do 3. the bravest men i've ever known said not whether they flew that plain into the jungles, picked up that low to cocaine and against everything,

but the drug enforcement administration and central intelligence could do, made it back. and i thank god to this day. if people are seriously interested in c, i a's involvement from a firsthand witness is a book. it's only in spanish. ok. they're like, ok, not the king of cocaine by either levy, suarez, she, she was present during his meetings this months, the drug dealer with central intelligence, the control of him and his operation was manifest. yes. what along along those same lines, the cia has long been accused of either running drugs or of turning a blind eye while their sources and their cooperators run drugs. gary webb, for example, famously said years ago that the cia had allowed the contra rebels to bring massive

amounts of drugs into the united states. and after his reporting was criticized on the same day by the new york times in the washington post. he committed suicide by somehow being able to shoot himself multiple crimes has uria. as your experience been that this cia willingness to tie itself to some of the most notorious drug traffickers in the world. been a disservice to the united states. what, what is the fall out? been over the long term. do you think richie this service to the states, the air america? read anything you can about air america. a ca proxy airline, which was flying literally flying. harry, when heroines precursors across the golden triangle area i, when i was when i was transferred to da headquarters, i was charged with tracking the flow of the shan united army at that time there

were trafficking heroin, right across the jungles of, of cambodia. island to, to bank up to, you know, an air base in, in thailand. and this was where we 1st as a z asia, i 1st me said words that they were, they were putting the drugs in the bodies of g, eyes being sent back from vietnam. my god, it was this, this was the herman jackson investigation, right? it was my, it was my investigation. but it was the only one, the, the, the investigation you see in the movies, with a flying drugs in the core fans, et cetera. that was, i mean, it was really bo, it's a matter of fact i along with a couple of other

d agents who were all corrupt and what not we. we started a lawsuit against the film company, which if you have a trust sewer film company that you were law firms, that's right. oh, yeah, yeah. i mean the question is the see i get involved with drugs every way possible. every way they use it, yet they use it as a political tool. we're going to take a short break. we're speaking with legendary drug enforcement administration officer, michael levine. we're going to take that short break and continue the conversation . stay with us. we'll be right back. 2 2 ah

o, b is hopeless too broad, western leg work order and a b, o you with that word order is now for you are seen in you create is the lock desk but by d americans and a fuel west, a lead. try to leap in that order. it's a more be didn't order. religion with i, my name is ryan from origin, philadelphia got in the movement in any age, 13 or 14. we were violent towards those people because we believe there were this

race were here 1st, and this is our country being part of that movement. i got your sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i felt a level life after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for skin. yeah, not the white supremacist in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out is 2 parts to getting out of a violent extremist group. the 1st part is disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization work belief systems audiology are removed. it was very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement, you heard my story did nothing to challenge it. validate what are you crazy? yes. or to columbia?

i lost most of my friends with it. i was broken. i wasn't able to save anyone. i did nothing and i that's wilson. 2030. god, virtually in my way to make me start talking to willy waiting for me. with time happy that through it find is willy little too you can go to sleep. mama may become my new friend. the one was love gonna die or oh because he is always stay alive. it was they next to me.

if i'm not crazy enough, i'm not gonna make it. oh, welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry, aka. we're talking about the antagonistic relationship over drugs and drug trafficking between the cia and the drug enforcement administration, or d. e a and were joined by one of the most highly respected drug enforcement professionals in american history. that's michael levine. thanks again for being with us. thank you, john. it's giving me a chance. this is so much cheaper than a psych ha i. i'd be interested to know about your bureaucratic experiences with the cia over the years. certainly you've gone head to head with the agency on these issues. what was that like and

what kind of administrative and perhaps political support did you receive if any? well, i once asked when i was in, when i was stationed in the embassy and argentina, i once asked them for the lens of a listening device. they, they give me and i tried a few times tamra listening device, nothing. you get got nothing from the cia, it's not that that's so, so very important. but they had all of this going on in the american press about the cia is now involved in the drug war. and you had all these international d, e, p, cover agents, all laughing and say, well yeah, they are deeply that. what i want to impress on that impress a i want you all to know the audience. you know to that i right now function as

a trial consultant, an expert witness. you can see my boner fridays on police trial expert dot com. it will tell you the kind and the level of cases in which i am now testifying . and if i said anything that could be used against me on a witness, then they'd grab it from this, but there's nothing that i'm saying that's not so well documented that we can, we can open up a separate court case for it. and it's a really important for the audience to understand that. and other than that, let it rip, i'm again, really happy to be really happy to be here, john, on. thank you. one of the accusations that you made against the cia, and i have to tell you, i believe every word of it was that it negatively in food influenced

a very important da operation. you said that the cia was instrumental in the creation of something called the called lock core to put, i see on it's a, it was a bolivian drug cartel which you, what's called the general motors of cocaine. can you tell us about that? yes, it's again, it's in the book, it can be quite like that. sorry, if i live long enough, i should write a whole other you know, dating. but it's all been the general motors of cocaine, a colon, the general motors of cocaine. because at the time the cia was doing its best to destroy the case against roberto suarez, he, he was it, it was everywhere i. he was putting together cocaine, manufacturing, cocaine organizations, cocaine trafficking roots all over the globe at this point. and i think that's why

i called the general they were the general modest cocaine, particularly at a time when america we, when you or you saw in the newspapers was press about the scourge of cocaine. right . what it's doing president was saying, is she worse than any kind of, of a, an attack by an enemy? it's the worst thing that our country was facing. is the number one enemy and this central intelligence with their asset putting together a the only way to quote is the general motors of cocaine. there was they were globally influencing trafficking that was trafficking just so general motors in like feel he only, she only the only metaphor jojo and that analogy i could come up with at the time that was the jap you've written, you've written several highly acclaimed books and like all of us involved in national security, you had to have those books cleared by the da,

they cleared all of them. and the books still had explosive new information in them . in one, you alleged that reagan era attorney general ed meese who's actually still walking around washington, you run into him every once awhile he had blown the cover of a da undercover team that had penetrated the office of the president of mexico and in 2011 bolivian president evo morales held up a copy of one of your books for the press and used it as justification to throw da out of the country. in fact, if yes, if he had read the book, he would have kept it the da in the country and he would have thrown the cia out of the country. tell us about those incidents. exactly. it was a shock to me. actually. i started writing that book. nobody was watching, you know, i thought was wrong with the speed they my entire career. i had been under

investigation from day one, investigation continued to years after, but yet nobody was aware what i was doing. i don't know how that happened. john, you could probably explain that better than me if this isn't just enough. that smart. i'm ready for the fact bureaucrats. most of the bureaucrats. i met a just really not that smart. they come from a class of people that all they seem to think about is the wrong self aggrandizement, right? our. and if you feed them, you know, i was very good at the cover. what, because i knew i know how to seduce people. i knew how to seduce very bad guys. me . well, it's almost the same logic when you're dealing with a bureaucratic you yours? oh, yeah, yeah. so, yes. can you explain me? i can't, i really can't explain me. i'm just incredibly lucky. or they

weren't watching the store. right. what else? yeah, well, what else can you say about that? you know, i think when older james was a c i, agent, and 7 years of that time he spent working for working for the k g b, right. when they finally on him, when they put him, they put him in charge of cocaine, of the drug, see where you don't have to even have to think about it a age. and so just let i'm talking to you because i like to sit privately with you. and so i love it. i'd love it. and you know what? let me, let me add something to your, to your thought there. i see a psychiatrist once told me that the cia actively seeks to hire people who have what he called sociopathic tendencies. not sociopaths,

because sociopaths are impossible to control. but the problem is, if you're a sociopath, you have no conscience and you, so you blow right through the polygraph exam. and so while the see, i says that it doesn't want sociopaths. in fact, the place is full of sociopaths. and that's how they get themselves into these predicaments. yeah. he, having a conscience is like drinking lank around in that world. that's right. your world. you can't, you just can't. you're exactly right. that's exactly what it is. i can't, so some of the things, you know, mosul a veteran and i am getting peaches eaten care from veterans administration. right. who considered who considered my experiences as his iep cover agent? what traumatic did bedra motor experiences. and so i believe that

in their logic, they say what you are serving your country so you know, it all comes that's right. all comes under this, but that's right. you know, i've, i've awakened in the middle of the night more than once shouting, where's my gun, which just used to panic. my, my wife often tell us what you're, what you're doing to stay busy. now i know that you continue to testify as an expert witness all around the country. you right, you continue to speak and you have a radio show. how else can our viewers keep abreast of the work that you do? i michael levine, books dot com. excellent. as videos of it ill, it is you the everything about the book itself, it's really important if you're interested. a glitch, trial expert, that com least trial expert that com is my professional website. yes,

this is what i do now. i'm deeply, deeply involved, my wife and i are writing another book. excellent. i know it l. i'm going to live long enough to finish all the scenes. i'm not sure what that is. okay. to what, what, what i want to say was why i was assigned to argentina. i was told to activate these specials special action units as they see unit list i happened to be serial killers. ready they were, they were, they were the ones offering all the argent time. they got it. i get her sushi, i the dirty were what the 3 guys were, the guys that i was paid to, i have is my asked it when some of the things that my job expose me too. i

can even talk about it's it you. i think you'll get it from reading the books, so you deep cover and the big white line. and as john pointed out, they both pest excruciating libel review. so then they have a real deal. and again, if you can yet, oh, great. they left robina by aida levy suarez. she's a 1st san witness to cia, people coming into her house while he was running cocaine across the world. and it is no wonder the book was never translated to english. because this, this, the only thing wrong and her book is she thought i was a cia. oh my goodness. well, there's, i only regret that we have such

a short period of time to talk. so i want to thank you, michael levine for joining us today. and thanks to our viewers for tuning in substance abuse is of very real trap and a curse on our society. drugs are very much like an abusive lover, who treats you well at 1st and then beats you up apologize as treats you nicely for a little while longer and then beats you up again. the trap is hanging in there for the good while trying to overlook the bad that can never work. and we're fortunate to have people like mike levine and the officers nations of the da trying to protect us. i'm john kerry aku. and this has been, the whistleblowers will see you next time. ah ah ah,

look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously, is to create trust rather than fear with various jobs, with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with hi, i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plead with you. whatever you do, you do not watch my your show seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that you won't get anywhere else. look of it please,

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