a miss and sleet with and that's her up on the hour and coming up. china takes a gloves off on us aggression. a discussion on presidents easy things visit to moscow. the chinese broker deal that you are on in saudi arabia and the u. s. is escalations with china next on going underground state. mm ah, with i'm action return. see welcome to going underground broadcasting around the world from dubai in the u. e. wait thousands of years for peace deal. and then to come

within a few weeks of each other after the saudi arabia, iran. d. o came, she didn't pings, state visit to moscow, where prudent said, mutual relations were more than an alliance. so now, could de communist party broke a piece deal end washington's war on russia through ukraine, or will the export of british depleted uranium to care of an entity blinking warnings against a ceasefire. continue the war to the last ukrainian is russia and china hail their friendship and relations that have reached their highest point in history. i enjoy now from the city that gives its name to a possible rival to nature. the shanghai cooperation organisation, by emeritus professor international history, politics at the geneva graduate institute, and distinguished fellow insta international peace and security. thinktank, the simpson center professor jang langhan. thank you so much, professor for coming on. i thought was your lie? said, i think it's apocryphal that it was too early to tell. as regards the french revolution at what's going on. china organizing saudi iran diplomatic deals and then

a visit to moscow. huge change. yes, yes. i think this is a long in the making. crystal. i think the basic idea behind is a strategic concept is to united states, particularly as united states. europe can some extent has identified china be systemic rival or kind of a cold war language. and basically, thinking about china, these face the last few years as pure 0 sum game anywhere, any place, anytime china, again, something will be their last china find a wonderful way of trying to have a brace. yes, breakthrough many, not just, sir. the, the actual are the piece maybe effort,

but also they tried to effect public opinion in the world about china's rule in regional regional security issues. they cannot deal with united states any more, be honest on, on pie one question on the other question. please much game of i if and i'm not equal, sasha rice are so they say we can move around. we, you mentioned reputation there you mentioned reputation was the united states as out of the are amazing, arguable propaganda. department. i mean c, dtn is banned in nato. nations in britain, it's a banner, i'm sure you'll have one with amazement as every usa network. as if in a totalitarian state covered the chinese spy balloon. as a, as a multi $1000000.00 missiles were sent to destroy it. surely, it's

a reputation of china re nato countries in the european union and in the united states as an all time low. oh, that's still true. but remember the u. s. mentality is something very close to. ah, early 19 fifties and his hysterical, i must say that it's kind of penny on where the penny come from, i believe is a deadly combination of 2 historical trains of thinking. populate in the west. now they combine together. when is whenever they think about china? one is the fear of decline. not remember this whole. spangler no philosophy about a decline, the west and united states, in particular, the number one for so long suddenly phasing the possibility of declining is or

spangler ism then combined with a racial concept which being popular in late 19th century, that is yellow arrow. so least 2 things joined together really frightens the american of foreign policy elite. and is they were, they think is a real challenge. but i never use the language. i said what they trying to do. but they, they disguise spangler ism, and the yellow peril sentiment with ideological in autocracy versus a democracy. it typical cold war tactic, though, it's not even since it, but surely those policy makers in washington realize that the components of, of all their technology come from china, the treasury bills, the bond holding ok. it's reduced like china, but china still has huge invest, trying to pull the rug under the united states economy tomorrow. surely they understand that. one question is why china want to call the rock?

china would love to free right? oh snap 40 a. but it was all whatever system american created as long as they can. but a sap latest. they just cut short. no tech war is at the core. but don't forget, all slash wrangler is the 1st person cry wolf in the 1950s. last book. nobody rees . it any more about technology. he said never left slay. remember the hey, gillian languish, masters living relationship. never less late to own technology. they were destroy master's ecology so so nothing really new. oh me is just a, a history in that repetition. so, as is, have been there a long time. yeah, yeah. not sure if you know about our f, scott fitzgerald, the views j. good. the great gatsby about spangler that he was a bit of

a fan of his. and we know what happened here. that j. gatsby, why does china then you for if he knows this, it knows these races, tropes are being used against them. why does china continue to say facilitates her lank as i am afloat in the past few days rather than through bricks? why is it, i think it's given $500000000.00 to pakistan, 500000000 dollars to facilitate i m f spending there. why does china seem to continue to support the bretton woods institutions actually? well they, when they tried, they tried to support the result of britain was, which is called globalization free trade. remember china? so the last defender almost today, the still try to defend free trade shooting, paying speech at davos a couple of years ago. you know, i never saw that, i will see that in my lifetime, chinese come in is to lead it as

a leading campaign of fries and the globalization. it is u. s. don't forget the original founder of the brazil system that abandoned the system twice. now 1st time the band and the gold exchange relationship, which is a default on the world now is the 2nd one, the abandoned globalization. so blame me, china more. that economic problem. it's kind of put a horse before the cart. i don't even logically does not make sense. yeah. but many around the world believe the devil system is predicated on a lie that it's actually have hypocrisy that the rains under class, rob say, institution. and how long will the chinese communist body continue given the sanctions regime that prevents this the dream utopia. globalization that is always spoken of in the endeavors. it was only the other day with ocho of indonesia said beware, it was a mastercard and visa well remembered sanctions. regime was revived,

actually, precisely because us want to abandon the original system on original world order economic order in particular. now what china can do because china hassling, free writing for so long. therefore, sanctions will heard china quite a lot. but china tried very, very hard in us. i will say, started 10 years ago, at least, russian probably start even earlier. d dollarization, this one, you know, concepts or russians have done wonderful it, by the way, the central did not destroy rubel. the price to everybody in the west, china will move in the same direction. eventually, they are selling massively to usaa and eventually will make our and be, you know, the more important international courtesy. so they are preparing the words and at

this moment sanctioned still working l to be able to damage chinese economy. but chinese are only know that takes a glove oh now, so to speak less row, you know, less, less fine if he, if you want to. because you know, say soccer quite a lot as well with these sanctions. well, not those who have raj as in arms companies, arguably china, obviously you're right, you're right. arms companies are the only one. yes. china as you great relations, china's great relation to saudi arabia. we've had people on this show say look, this talk of di dollarization. it's still in the interest of opec countries to keep the dollar rather than start trading in a say, the remnant be, or you on because in a sense the chinese currency is kind of pegged to the u. s. dollar. anyway, so why bother changing things?

well, it's just a question on survival. this question offer a boy the the, what's chinese language? what's called long arm punishments of other countries, meaning sanctions or long inter governmental. now, the whole point about this, i think china try to lay, i'll try to get in more into the i added system, which is theory. you know, the person was legacy. if they cannot, they only option is to reduce the usage. i don't know whether or not a dollar can continue to be as strong as it looks. i doubt many economies. so many historians dollar probably going to implode by itself. was this debt problem? ah, you know, in how much money they, princeton last few years or so it is so they will,

i will say american government will pay the price go a dollar in pollution. next few years, the given the disparity wealth in the united states can the american government, the united states government can, they can go on raising interest rates are to protect the dollar regardless of the poverty and the destruction of infrastructure in investment in american industry. miller can con, it was spoken about be honest, i doubt it wrong. oh reagan, all the reagan, the greek and nomics try to remember those say they can race as high as the 15 percent. now they're raising interest race based on the idea. you can attract those se, se regan time off money massively out money into the united states because the hot money talking about diarrhea, oil shakes everybody else, right? because they want to take, make money out of the interest different,

right. which was you referred to as the sustain dollar strain? not any more. ah, my sense is that because continental of the u. s. financial system banking system. government a finest. it's a totally law is fight whatever government try to pull it, you know, they are reaching a kind of, i believe in a less seek a conditions now was this other color? so i doubt they can play reagan nomics one more time. i just don't see it present. jackline, jenn, i'll stop you that more after this break. ah ah ah

ah ah, ah ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it treat even foundation, let it be an arms race is on offense. very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very katy killed time. time to sit down and talk ah,

welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with professors young jin chinese international relations scholar. distinguish fellow at the simpson center. i know you say it was a long time coming, but do you think the chinese communist party was at watching the defeat in afghanistan as well as the rio reaction by russia to meet inserted bombing of don bass? are these 2 factors? yeah. the, the catalysts for the st. what looks like dramatic foreign policy initiatives by she didn't bring shore? oh, well can, yes i, i will say so. yes. ah, they really had the surgeon says you miss a shot and troy. ok. well, let's see how k all the united states to repeat this, i go by retreat after so many yes, which they and then of course see or rushing or invasion

out. i know chinese come and never use a word i. as a scholar, i will use that word. it is the invasion, or which there certainly is not abide by international law, but don't forget again. china always, ah, sees nato enlargement as a threat, not only to russia. china also felt the pressure when nature start east or expansion in $99798.00. nobody remembered that episode. how child reacted china almost any other time. yeah, but it will shine it did when the full mouth. sweet. yeah. nancy pelosi has to die . one was to do a big drill of him. you know, some people were asking why doesn't jain era? i don't know. she jin ping, visit havana, visit havana or, or do something more than just a big military drill right? no, no, i don't think a timing is right. but don't forget this through. this drill is not all the other 3

is a different drill. this is the called, the blah katie strategy. this could be, could be one of the future. i saw a military operation class. this is a actually provide opportunity for them to really there you know, a real fire exercise a surrounding talent of don't forget, this is the 1st time this is b blockade could be one of the plans you see? well, i mean, certainly on fox news, they talk about it hook like that, but of course the americans, i love it. they have lots of personnel apart from all the bases that circle you in chang. i the u. s. bases. yeah, 16 people, 16 chinese workers killed in the central african republic just ahead of the she visit to moscow. china has

a lot of infrastructure that could be bombed. we know that sy hersh revealed the destruction perhaps the greatest infrastructure terror acts in all history. the north stream pipelines, buying energy to europe. surely china is very vulnerable in that, in america, in africa and southeast asia to any kind of cia nord stream style attack. that's possible, thus, as always possible, depending on how much or you know tension will develop between us and china. let's say if china started miserably she against ty, one wheel united states really do a full scale or fair with china. i doubt it really is slight biden's, full infamous comes slips, as we would do it. i don't think the u. s. military is ready. you as we know the overall strategy and even believe in deploying or if they only thing one with

allies to something called law. but a quad is really edge, rather primitive stage. i don't believe they are reaching the level of so called into operability. the coordinate a wool on behalf of taiwan is in president. i, you know, they were talking about that when president let me president's i visiting the united states apparently just in transit on a central american to a short i. they actually discussing us yes, it's a huge issue. this is another major publication. if remover is not just transit is the who. the question who was going to see her if he had anthony lincoln, well, well, nothing will be in public, will it? it won't be in public. ah, let us system that you never, they're never able to keep secrets. don't forget it. so i'm sure it's going to be

if, if it's at the level anthony blinking, that's a measure measure provocative. kevin mccarthy? yes, it's a measure one, but it does even one letter below nancy pelosi in terms of provocation because in as little as he at the same party with immigrant. right. and so say that democratic governments and the kevin is mccarthy, is the opposition part. mccarthy, of course, he won't. you won't go in the caesar lensky and his being attacked in nato nation media. what about japan? right, right. what about, i mean, we've seen a bible expansionism in the philippines. you're saying, you know, usually the rank biden does go for it. we've seen it in the philippines for me. okay. shita in clare of. what's that? what is that about as the i m f. organize is a $15600000000.00 deal, which presumably china must have known about because china invest in the i'm of sure. yeah. but a deal is not for military reasons, right?

i little will never give that deal for military reasons. for japan and others. now, i'll fill you face to face, right? in the recent, you know, of a few basic these are all part of what american called into pacific strategy. well, we know, i know that i follow very closely. the don't forget, i said, is still relatively creative stage. they are try to form a strategic encirclement all contaminants, you know, military contaminants or against china by this little it's a slow emotion, but it's there. but i doubt this is really very useful and reserve even pie one issue. it does not help. it does not help stabilize the taiwan straits at all. so because that could cook,

he seek mina truly if you are sitting in beijing i, i'm under command the she to do. i have to wait until watching you slowly to finish your deployment. that's what they've been doing the past 20 years. that yes, no, no. you know the last few years they really speak with 20 is they don't have a quarter, they'll have all the other stuff. oh cuz you know with the u. k. so what i'm trying to say is we cannot watch you to do it because we are, we have convinced this is what you going to do to make tie one, a separate political entity forever. that, that is the chinese ticklish. yet, despite a u. s. a richer it will never change one china house. they don't even believe they are not changing. not not mentioned sunny's, there is 0. a serious communication tie. one question now. i mean,

you see they talk about their ha completed different language. yeah. looking both ways is something that babs, yeah, i was shown from the i t c. arrest warrant for vladimir putin issued on the eve of the visit by his banker, moscow because the usa they would invade holland. if it is a good, good, good for baganda. melia for sure. yeah. yeah. if we can dispense with the i c. c them. what about the weapon zation of human rights? because as you know, and a given the each in the united states, you must have been aware of the propaganda campaign. we and we actually showed on the program how the we go out of propaganda story was amplified. as you expect. the weapon is ation of human rights to go on steroids. i should say kareem khan, the i c c lawyers been on his show should we expect more and more stories saying that where you live, where you're speaking to be from shanghai is assess better for you all rights violations. i oh, china always has, you know, we, we know jana has said,

very serious human rights problems. it's that we're issue in the sheen gen really qualified as american defied s a genocide. that's a novice. i don't agree. no. do i think the policy itself is wise? not really either. i will say the criticize both sides, but who is a weapon? noticing human race, that's my question. mainly the western part of the world. that's my sense. now become a major instrument for great power to remember during the original cold war, there was the human rights issue, housing agreement, all of that. you never hear the american leaders house the using

chinese companies 40 instead of people. remember china ah, yeah. but i mean, arguably the global south doesn't have any language. the global side knows about abu ghraib and the prison on one dynamo that's still open. so i can agree that, that kind of, yeah. element really the idea that the very idea is trying to separate communist party from p r c itself. it's a, it's not historical. they don't know of what they're talking about. b is not realistic. in any case, this is invented by people like palm pair, don't forget very much. so it's become a common language. now. the u. s. is either you or salinas are using ab some the european politician use is absurd. a using human rice issue as a major instrument spoke great powered, haunting her. i emphasized great politics. great. my apologies. you need to be pragmatic. you disagree with ideology regimes that you know,

character mine. but let's sit down to make a deal to see the ultimate issue is piece all war. this is something many forgot. european certainly, ah, these states are, they are not aware that their mission to have them to jump on american union leg show interpretation of taiwan. issue, cuz remember there was always a 2 size interpretation. if you follow the history of the taiwan questions. says that a recent nixon and henry kissinger. okay, well, if the, if the united states is declined, we'll europe die before he and i did the states as a power house of the, of the economy. i mean, i should say, europe is paying for this russian war. it's still buying russian assure. and obviously china is staying for the war by, by asking the sanctions. i don't know where the china was and weapons do you think china will send weapons to russia? i don't think they will send straight so forward. now, i don't,

the russian either going to russia do is no, no, no river is always possibility for do use ah, how can you define dual use this ascending weapons to because the russians so do or use is always possible. it's according to the bilateral treaties trade treaty between china, russia, we continue. do you expect close to nuclear weapons cooperation, already american think tanks are alarmed by the fact raw sat him and the china talking about close cooperation of nuclear weapons. ah, yeah. i saw the on their alarm, they remember before they asked china less have a nuclear talk. now today, the situation as i say, it's in to a period of mccarthy's, almost like a mechanic. there is a black wife 0. some eli proposal a made by china and they have to say, what's the conspiracy behind it?

you know what, what's driving that? i don't know why i'm currently was howard belford center kennedy school in a nuclear program. if you want to refer to that, i'm very happy because i'm still a research fellow there. we are working on that. i'm the one tried to, to track to, you know, if we cannot do truck one. let's talk about nuclear issues. but so far, american side a less and they hinged their attitude before they pushed china. is it so we are really in the situation where communication become almost impossible. centers full great power relations. professor jang jink, thank you. and that's in the show. remember, will be bringing you brand new episodes every sunday monday. so state you mean? well, you can keep in touch, but all our social media, it's not sent,

said in your country and had to our channel going undergone tv on rumble, dot com to watch new and old episodes going on the grant. so use, act ah ah, [000:00:00;00]

with ah, ah, and what is the us doing that creating more and more new mil to reliance is the west that is building new axis in a major interview, vladimir putin, excuses nato of abreast of local military expansion, denying that russian and chinese cooperation is aimed at other states with also the president of israel sends a message to prime minister benjamin netanyahu to come to his senses at 1000 say to