in during future negotiations, it would seem the russians have their own plants. ah, to discuss these issues a more i'm joined by my guess, good works on my son in berlin. he is founder of sariana analysis. and hearing masika, we have maxine susco. he's the director of the center for advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. a gentleman crossed up rules and effect. that means he can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate it. let's go to berlin 1st couple. okay. it's really interesting to the entire course of this conflict here. it's really been just a, a babble of narratives because all the last couple of weeks, you know, you have the secretary, is they blanket and you saying in front of congress? well, we know the care of regime wants to go, we take a crimea, but that would be a red line, a bridge too far, no pun intended. but then we hear from other high ranking officials in the western

world that you know, we have to do everything we can do to get the ukrainians to be able to move forward on the front and possibly recapture crimea. so i don't know, they tried to fake us out. is this just the fog of war, or they just don't know what to do? your thoughts? go ahead. actually, when a war is sorry sir. dia, the narrative warfare is the most important for period is the 1st, the 1st few weeks or few months. and after few months, you cannot really hide what's happening underground. at the beginning of there was the intention to push back all the russian forces from ukraine. and this was the narrative that ukraine can win this war. and they convinced ukraine in march 2022. at that, we will give you all the weapons and ammunition and diplomatic and political support, you need to push back the russian forces in, in your grand. therefore duke renaissance stopped negotiating with the russian side . and they even assassinate that, one of their own diplomats, which was in the delegation negotiating with the russian side. and then zalinski

should the presidential decree criminalizing talking with russia. so there was a push from b natal aside for your grants. go induce war out as much as it takes they say, right? so what does that mean? as long as it takes, or as much as it takes, it means that they're using the ukrainians as a meat grinder in this for in order to achieve the nato goals. but now it's pretty obvious after one year that they cannot push a rational forces beyond the don't by switching, for example. so how are they gonna do that in crimea? and we have to know in the doctrine of direction geopolitics. a crimea is the most important region in ukraine and if the ukrainians try with the help of nature or to capture a d, a crimea, which means to be in control of the black sea. so that the russians won't have the fleet on or presence on the black sea. that means nuclear warfare. and this is not something that i'm trying to see among, or i have studied geopolitics and i know that during the cold war,

the serious of the sea power and the land power. it was, it existed in the cold during the cold war. and now it exists again and the soviet union back then they lost the cold war because they didn't have a strong presence on the waters. and now the russians, they learned just your political mistake and they don't want to be only about also c powered. therefore they want to have an axis on the black sand, also on the mediterranean. that's why that's why the president also in syria. so this, your political conflict could develop into a wider i would say, a regional in the european continent, or if the ukrainians attract it. if it, if it did though, if it didn't go, let me go to mass here. that would be a choice that nato would be making if they want to expand this conflict. that would be a choice made by the wes lacks. well, since the beginning of the military campaign in ukraine, the special military operation,

the u. s. has pursued one of the washington pundits recalls while the fro strategy towards russia, where they saw the down the one hand they need to deal some blow to russia, political and military. on the other hand, they try to say this narrow path of, you know, not slipping into the nuclear war with moscow, but with every single sap on this so called lateral escalation. you know, 1st, you know and take talk commercials. then you go with drones, then you go with tanks and, and so on, so forth. now we're really climbing to the point where trying to, you know, walk this fine line between, you know, dealing low to moscow and, you know, sleeping to engaging itself in this, in this war. and risk in a nuclear war is becoming increasingly difficult. so i think the secretary of blinking remarks reflect this concern that the range of options are for the united

states that they can do for ukraine without, you know, kind of engaging itself into war. yes, this is in korea is increasingly limited. and also i think something has happened over the past 2 months on the well state, you know, different shifts have not moved into us favor. you know, he's fine any go, she miss when this has an iranian coming out with their own peaceful and obviously the chinese to expand, you know, want to convert their economic, my team to political and diplomatic minds. and you see some issues happening in the united states. so all of this put a lot of pressure on the bi administration. and they cannot stay the same worse than they have seen on over the past 12 months. and with all that, you know, both russia and ukraine seem to be prepared for the spring campaign with a big question of who is going to come up with the counter offensive and, and where exactly, on which part of the front. we just want to add the one thing,

you're a respectful guest, that the recently declassified. if you feel that the u. k, will supply a depleted uranium to your grand an army in order to be used against the russian forces. and this is very important. we have to remember what happened in iraq when a depleted uranium was used extensively there and the bus to fix that occurred for decades. not for 2 tickets. still people are born with birth defects, but also let's remember in ukraine, the areas where just a picture of any will be used if it's used. it consists of 10 percent of the words grain and the words wheat. so if these are weeds, farms are poisoned by the depleted uranium. that means 10 percent of the work population could go on hunger. and this is also foods warfare that is being launch or landing, which really i'm, i'm glad you brought that up because it's

a truly extraordinary development. me, this is how much they care about ukraine. this is how much the west cares about. your brain is poison. it's soil for generations to come. i get this extraordinary. i want no with future historians will say, what kind of regime allows your people to be use as cannon fodder and you have your backers, so a soil and destroyer destroy your, your land. i mean, this is, it's almost to the point of madness. i mean, that even america, how can a military victory be achieved when you've killed your people and destroy your land? if it doesn't make any sense to me, he goes. but it's not surprising in serbia, for example, under trump, they burned the wheat fields in serbia and we know that within surveys one of the best in the world. and then the u. s. 8, which is one of the branches of the ca, of course they send genetically modified wheat seats to the farmers in the eastern

shore of the euphrates. so this is natalie about your politics, about also about controlling the food basket of the word. and that's one of the reasons why the u. s. ok. patient forces exist in syria because they want to take the oil and the wheat of syria hostage and then bargain it with the, the syrian regime or with the russian side before they retro on syria. ok matt, see no, i'm calling this this program spring offensives with an s in there in parentheses because the, the media loves to focus on the cam bridge game and what they should and shouldn't do. and the machinations inside the presidential powers and all that. they love their kind of stuff, it's all personality driven. it's not like policy driven. there's a very little analysis. but in there, there is widely believe that there will be a rush to an offensive in spring and with the partial mobilization in force right now, that is a considerable force when we know that the plane inside is having

a very strong difficulties and keeping their, their true levels fly. ok. russia isn't even tapped into that yet. so i mean the, when, when we talk about offensive rush and certainly have possibly that in mind as well go ahead minutes. i do think that the, the, there's the possibility of the russian offensive, or contra fans depending on how you read it. but also, i think what we're seeing over the past couple of days we, i personally read it as a witness. i intend to build a qualitatively new kind of deterrence against the west with discussion of the deployment of nuclear arms in belarus. i think it's a clear, it's a clear signal and it's a clear and tell them to build up a new terms in the west. there's this understanding that the deterrence that russia

has used in the past have not worked and it has not deterred the west from engaging into support for key f. so now that is that current food on the table. i think food has mentioned that know that this new terminal for this storage of the nuclear arms would have to build july is. so this is also kind of, if you see a clear timeline, it's not mentioned to, you know, just it, just for the sake of it as it stands to have some meaning to it. and that's to say that, you know, the west should be careful about increasing its own support and what type of support, again, with brought up the use of uranium up to potentially that is sure, a big a big concern. so that, that's, that's number one. number 2, i did, it has to do with russia's own actions on the ground. and that, of course we,

we don't know how far it may go and where exactly. clearly, i think for now russia 6 to cement the territorial gains it has achieved in the past couple months. the boss, i will not exclude. going back to square one in the sense and bringing out the idea of the nasa vacation and the militarization. because these of course, are quite the terms, but that old i mean met. okay, well let's call a spade a spade here. ok. in my humble opinion, denot vacation means that when sky regime has to go, that's how i interpreted ok. that's what i was going to say. you can interpret this in multiple ways, including, you know, that the toppling of the regime. but then again, it's just, it's not just lensky and his administration per say. it's a broader concern with different national strokes and i think so, obviously

a lot of you know, under clarity and a lot of vagueness so far. and that's why i think, going back to your 1st question that perhaps make secretary blinking, bring up all this was somewhat inconsistent statements, but it also reflects that the situation on the ground is that good? that could be intentional. intentional father more it's because it's, you know, who do you rely upon and then, you know, it is basically to fake you out. and i think that's all part of this on narrative as well. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate authority. ah ah ah

ah ah, who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions. today russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing for future, little in was to call soon as we speak on the bill in your senior, mostly mine the we're, we're banding all imports of russian oil and gas news. i

see with joe, by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang. ah ah, welcome back across the dock were all things are considered. i and peter bell, this is the home edition to remind you, we're discussing some real notes. awe or let's go back to berlin cannot get me. another big issue that has happened in the last few days is the reactive is ation of the international criminal court and a potential charges of war. war crimes against russian officials, including the president of the russian federation. how,

how is it that you will if this is invoked and i think it's a fake court. it's a kangaroo court to western driven court. it's designed to go after the west enemies. okay. they can wear all the nice robes they want and help carry all the breed cases. but it's still a kangaroo court. how, how can the west nature country support the sport and then potentially be involved in negotiations with russia? i mean, it seems, i mean, they've kind of closed out all that. we've seen the ukranian officials make the league to deal with the current government in, in russia. but it seems like the west is doing the same thing. i mean, you, how can you negotiate with someone that you claim as a war criminal? go ahead. actually, i was in the i c, c in 2008. and i ask one of the judges about when, are they gonna issue a nervous warrant against the american war criminals? so the politicians who committed oldest work crimes in the middle east. and the answer was just like they're just turning around to the true answer. right. and

they don't want to give you an answer for that. and now dicey, in just so much of a one year the issue than a restaurant, in my opinion, this is, we can consider this bullet politics age politicized decision because it comes just a few days before the chinese, better than she, chamber england, that in russia truly activate diplomacy, and every time there is in one counter trying to play it so much a call in this conflict. some other parties come and tarnish just attempts right into it in 2022. it was the brits and now it's a prevents it the americans and we had the we had the israelis as well. i'm in the the enticement, for example, against israeli. a suspect suspects for committing work crimes has been going on for years. there was no restaurants against them for any crimes. they have committed against the palestinians. but this comes also just a few days before, as i mentioned,

the chinese men mediation. and let's remember the national security concept spokesperson, john kirby and secretary of state. they all the fused, the chinese proposal, and here i ask a question as an observer. ok, if you refuse the chinese proposal, where is your proposal a proposal for this? so when it comes before the diplomatic attempt, when i see issues that decision and a restaurant and the national security council, the spokesperson, very few is the secretary for state to be fuses and they sent a picture and i am truth and that means they're not interested in diplomacy now, and the message has been hurt in my opinion in most books. so i suspect the rational fence if would precede any sort of an offensive from the ukraine and side because the decision has been made from the nato side that there is no way to go for negotiations with put in because the icy decision do. do you know what does that mean if put in lance? now, in germany, what's gonna happen if he lands here, are they gonna arrest?

as far as i know, i may be wrong here, but as far as i know, any, an indictment we can call back from the i c c, it's never been rescinded once they say it, they don't take it back. ok. this is a one way direction here. you know, math this, this actually plays into my whole theory of the case is that, you know, i, i am glad that the chinese of his offer to a potential a piece propose that's fine. okay. um, we were the president of brazil was going to beijing and he wants to throw his weight in and maybe another version of the chinese. i think that's fine. ok, but because there's no rush there is no real interlocutor. that is a co belligerent in the west is a co belligerent in this conflict. as much as they deny it, there is not going to be a negotiated and it is going to be a unilateral ending, and the russians will call it when they want, where they want. ok, because they have no one to talk to it. and i like to throw in the whole men's

process here. why do you talk to politicians in the west if they're just going to lie to you? go ahead mass. well, it makes sense. i mean, does, it does appear that, you know, it's finished and go, sheets are unlikely with crane because your brain is not friendly and independent asher in this conflict and it doesn't make sense to negotiate with western patrons of green officials because all the previous negotiations and all a was and he is now the windows, so i don't think you can negotiate with the table. and i think the u. s. the by ministration helps to lot in this process because they made it clear. and you don't want this negotiated solution either. so he, they still believe that the russian can benefit it militarily for that in a way you've sold the cars to the russian officials to do and, you know,

settle this conflict and produce the security outcomes as they deem relevant to the russian security. as far as the u. s. own kind of efforts, i think we've seen again over the past week, the attacks us attacks on iranian troops in syria. and that followed shortly after, you know, the iranian cell, the know truce. if you want to call it in chinese, go she to the steel and it also kind of shows us that there is no solution to any conflict in the world that the us is not a part of that. the west will be a problem and not, not a solution which complicates think as far as the isis is concerned. i read it as yet another blow to another, international organization and other international norm. you know, as,

as much as the trust to worse the dollar currency, the financial markets of the west has been a suburban in the early months of the conflict in the brain. now we see yet another institution of being derailed. and that's just, you know, the reality that will live in that is telling us about the crumbling of the existing world order in the shape, you know, something they're actually able to jump in. what's your, what's, what our respective to just says. it's very, very important. cause village based order is that the americans brag about, like we're seeing the complete destruction of the international court order. this for example, for, for decades, dice it for 2 tickets at this. dicey didn't you shine juris weren't against anyone into nasty or the now the o. p c, w, in syria, they are able to change the findings and the conclusions of their own scientists were underground and the ground in doing my in syria. and they change it in

a way that gives the impression that the syrian army used chemical weapons in domain 2018. we are living in a jungle. and i want to mention this very clear that there are so many people around the world who would disagree with russia and it's offensive on you've been. and they would say, probably this is illegal in their understanding of international law. but why would they care if, for decades, this international law was not applied on the rest of the work, and they were smashed under the feet of the united states and other imperialist powers around the world. so they are so many people around the world into turn, what congress into saucen congress in actually kind the middle east. they said this as an opportunity for them to be liberated from the american hegemony. so it's not only about russia, if it's a bit about the legality of the russian offensive in your brain or not, the people around the world are looking for it. so the market full of words so that they can also please and develop because they are chalk people need to understand that they've nach nation. natural resources are being groped now by the americans, whether it's in syria, whether it's in libya and elsewhere. so this people did,

they, they don't care now any more, if this offensive are fresh or any american, all the more. so with the destruction of the north stream pipelines, i mean, he a destroying the natural, ha, ha, ha. and trade of, of 2 countries that were, you know, i don't know, you know, i've always thought to really be q u y america should decide who it's the bill to buy, flying for english from point a to point b in 2 different countries. ok, i think maxime, that i think it's very interesting what to say. i had to say, because this is what makes this very dangerous because the, the rules based order is being showed to be a farce. and a fraud that it is. and it's on the other side, you know, we have bricks and we have these other organizations, this whole concept. it's not my idea with an idea of the world beyond the west. and i think that's what's happening right now. even the saudis would think of what you want of that regime. there are national interests. they want, they want,

they want room, they want some sunlight between themselves and washington because you know, they have to take care of their own reach. and, and i think with china being a, basically a non interested party did a remarkable thing in dealing with around re on go ahead maps. i think it's remarkable how quickly ever get in the class when mounted over the past, you know, 75, a year since the end of the world war 2 has really crumbled, including, you know, the international organizations, the trust source and the world order. and that exists at the norms, institutions everything. and of course, now we see the difference, you know, on the one hand to see russia advocating for the whole, the central world. meaning that in a more power, scanty will say in more, you know, say in the world affairs. and that's not necessarily in rush, just own interest,

right. but it also now works towards the grander goal of great di americanization di westernization of the international system. and to maximize the couldn't you phrase it otherwise? i mean, i just, you know, theoretically speaking i had to mon is a dangerous thing in an international system because there's no checks on it. the hedge fund gets to do what it wants to do. and in a multiple world, you could put checks out of your you and you have to build coalitions and all of that. that's why american hegemony is just awful for the international system because he can overthrow governments blow up pipelines to fascinate people and never be held account. and i think will so i think the vital ministration has executed a tremendous lack of subtleness in the american. you see that has been, you know, they now it's also kind of remarkable that they're bringing henry kissinger once in a while, as one of the last standing subtle diplomats that the american tradition has had.

because the current generation of people mass, no one is not really express the company we have. i think we have 30 seconds left about it. i'd like to give it to you in berlin, finish it out for us, please go ahead. i just want to say that multiple words, the west will chip, it's so called democratic values. the russians and the chinese are not going to intervene in this because the western part will be an essential player in a multiple words. the russians and the chinese are not trying to keep them out from the international system. so they will be different pulls russians and the chinese would be specially a strong park. and the rest of the world can choose which school would they make. and this is nothing wrong with sharing a little bit, just share a little bit or i gentlemen, that's all we have one thing, my guess in berlin and here in moscow, i want to thank our viewers for watching a c r t. see you next time. remember crosstalk rules i

ah, ah, okay. with on the seller luck with that you found that i had them does that? i don't know how that he's kind of

a constituent making a bit. so it was more approachable to bullet disposal wilma with talk good to you about a collaboration graphic who what is the best time to go about them? this is a little bit of

a complicates a list of what i see school of a car. what report that, what's past something, something that might give me a picture, which it it said to jeff, i'm using mean you to do that. even duncan b comma lucy. and the a couple of somebody mp community that they've come, a set of left knob is all supposed to start out, like he's gonna affect it, dor, fully out of that. so i did meet it with us. that's a disclaimer. but that was the routing the spook. moving for a closer look at them during the summer because i see that it was with them. we're gonna let chris was. it was

was there, then you big as well for you? go there? sure. i see it. it's an open up that we're still a when are you will be 11. i think it's an appointment with what is the us doing there, creating more and more new mil to re alliances does the worst that is building new axis. in a major interview, vladimir putin acute nato of abreast of global military expansion, denied that russian and chinese cooperation is aimed at other states. with also the president of israel sent a message to prime minister benjamin netanyahu come to his senses as thousands take to the streets and protests over the government's judicial reform.