the p a or any other authority cannot tell me to sit here or move to any other place. i was here before i go, boom, as well before these settlements. where did they come here to build a bo hm. he says, family era, bedouins moved here in the early fifties after they were kicked out from the neg, if desert due to israel's creation, while the right tween rag of aim claims that palestinian autonomy slowly taking over airy sea to have it all for palestinians with no jews on the left, my residence, voice. tit for tat accusations. maybe the lever that we bossard, they didn't want they're doing in the desert. and now don't one bedroom in jerusalem. no bedrooms and no philistine in so that they don't want muslims or christians here. up until the dead sea, there is not a single village that belongs to philistines. israel wants to get rid of us to build more jewish settlements to cut us from the west bank. the sides seem to be irreconcilable, and this year's long battle for the land. and for the future seems to lack the mere

ground for any dialogue, reef notion of all t from israel and the palestinian autonomy. before we wrap it up here on our t as a national street artists in the conflicts riddled region of the democratic republic of congo near the rwandan border. they've been using city mold as canvasses to try and spread the message of the eastern city of goma has been racked by violence as local congress forces fight against the militants, particularly those of n 23 of the us based council on foreign relations. so there are more than $100.00 on the groups operating in that region. authority said numerous civilians have been forced to flee their homes with b r. c has a huge neighboring were wonder of supporting the m $23.00 militants. however, one consistently denies those claims. the street artists say they tried to show the world what's happening in the country to attract more attention from the international community. we're finishing the move roll. it support the for the

project with the slogan together, we build the country. our country has been going through a war for a decade. this is a country where you wake up and everywhere, there are bullets. these are real moments of tension. we say to ourselves as altis, that it's time to take brushes and go into the streets and paint. the violence slows down a lot of things. so we have to cultivate peace. have to have the culture of mutual tolerance between us. it will allow us to have a loss and peace in our country. it's a way for us to bring about to be falco, existence and democracy. the dear c goes up as guests in this and why i'm happy because this is the way i found. i can't use violence to express what i feel painting for me is an effective way of getting the message across when i want to get it across. painting is something that everyone sees. even if we don't have a major education, we are young. we are part of the solution. see more of that artwork online at all t thought, called the meantime,

from all of us here at auto international in moscow. a pleasure. as always, having you with us, we are soon with ah, sometimes governments commit such a grievous act of waste, fraud, abuse or illegality that multiple whistleblowers come forward to complain. sometimes those government acts even constitute war crimes or crimes against humanity. we'll talk about one of those cases. one where the facts are clear, but the ending made upset you. i'm john kerry aku and you're watching the whistleblowers. 2 2 2 2 2 hello and welcome to the whistleblowers. i'm john kerry. aku the u. s. military base at guantanamo has been described by some former detainees there as

hell on earth. hundreds and hundreds of innocent people scooped up by the u. s. military and the cia and afghanistan, pakistan and elsewhere have been held there sometimes for decades. despite the fact that the vast majority of them had never committed a crime. we all know that on many occasions, over the past 20 plus years, military and intelligence interrogators have gone too far in confronting prisoners at guantanamo. much of that immoral annette goal and illegal behavior was documented in the senate intelligence committees, torture report. today we're going to speak with a guest who served at guantanamo for the u. s. military. he witnessed crimes committed against detainees, and then he went public. he risked everything his career, his finances, even his family. but in the end, all these years later, almost nothing has changed. dozens of prisoners are still being held incommunicado

at guantanamo, in many cases, they aren't even allowed to access to their own attorneys. and almost none have ever been charged for the crime is the ca still torturing people at one tunnel. we don't know. the cia says the torture program and years ago, and we're just going to have to take their word for it. i for one will not our guest tonight is joseph hickman. joe hickman spent most of his life in the military 1st as a marine. and then as a soldier in both the army and the national guard, he's deployed on several military operations around the world, sometimes attached to foreign militaries, the recipient of more than 20 commendations and metals. hickman was awarded the army achievement metal and the army commendation metal. while he was stationed at one tunnel, jo, welcome to the show. be here, john. thanks for joining us, joe. i want to cut directly to the revelations that you may, joe. the events leading up to it are somewhat typical of national security

whistleblowers in that you were just a guy doing his job. and then one night something terrible happened. it involves the deaths of 3 prisoners, all on the same night at one tunnel. tell us what happened. well then i was june 9 to 6. i was on sergeant guard sergeant charges watch a different operation. those in camp america give american one time. now, how is the genes? that's where you're at. on this specific champ, in one time though, it was here for you. so give america where i, when i was in tower, you know, i wouldn't miss the patty where you call it where you the great, where the transports back up to camp for taken prisoner out of care or patty where you drive out of the gate. and i watched the tower make

a turn like they were meeting the base at that time, i was suspicious. they came right back and picked up another entity. did the same thing by this time i was really curious. where were the points on friday night? sometimes they were taking the medical hospital or something like that, but this is already there. so they came back for a 3rd details. when you did, i went to the post where the entry post to see where the, where the them was actually going to post into camp america, which they had the fast one that wrote when they were not that room. and the 3rd time i watched them go about $200.00 yards and then make a left. right? yeah, i'll hear from your at that time i knew that was only about the 2 places at the

time that led to the lead to the beach where it led to facility that i knew was ca call it a can no, no, it's not there. it's right here so i knew they were getting the teams to the church from using it so they were going to care for sure. so then later on at night i see the patty right and come back inter we can go right to the medical clinic to detail the medical clinic inside the war. and they backed up and they were unloading something like that. but at that point, they 15 minutes later, all the lights came on in

a whole year sirens one off was a huge seam and i went to the medical, everybody was running to work there and saw the corner science would happen. she said, try to have these children tell you why. and i knew right then this did. because i had eyes on what i had. one. no one was saw the one the only people that think suspicious was 3 days left. when the patty wagging the patio backed up to so are you right? that true? remember kill was on my watch, father be 3 years because you went to the media to make your revelation. because after fully expecting the naval criminal investigative service to interview you,

they never did. you saw a general on cnn say something about the events of that evening and you knew that he was lying. there was a cover up saying, here's what happens then. your name is out there. i know the military tried to discredit you. did they come after you then? yeah, 1st what happened is i saw one admiral on. one see it in the same day saying it was a symmetrical work on themselves, terrorist acts and stayed even more. i got home, i was the i g sector general complaint about it didn't go anywhere at all. so i took it to i got a maturity. i was to the justice and the f. b. i showed

off and are just smart attorney showed up and they interviewed me there for about 3 hours if you really interested and my child was present and they, yes, if i had any other collaborating witnesses and i did, i had 9 people. one just me, that's what i'm seeing. mine are soldiers. wow. you said no one. so they, they interviewed all of them. and 10 months later they didn't hear. i was, i'm actually in the military store. 10 months later they didn't hear anything. so my attorney called just partnered and they said their exact words, the just the my story was true, but you're not going to charge you. wow. wow. joe like other national security whistleblowers. you did not back down. you saw this legality take place and you

went public and when there was no follow up, you gave a long interview to scott horton in 2010 for harper's bazaar magazine. and then you wrote a book about your experiences called murder at camp delta, a staff sergeant, pursuit of the truth at guantanamo bay. the military criticize the article harshly, but it won a national book award one of the highest literary prizes in the united states. clearly the military's propaganda against you wasn't working. so what happens next? well, just to back up a little bit. i 1st went to bryan boss. brian ross is very addressing the story. and he, he was going to run it. and i said, you have to run this if you're going to do these interviews, you have to write, i'm still in the military. yeah, the pentagon, after you ask questions about this and don't want nothing supporting. and he said he would. and then one of his,

one of the people working for him who you're familiar with buddy's work. so my questions just hang on. nothing grand. and then after the last day there was a lot of problems. they met very big problems there. and i didn't take a shot weren't serious. harper, something serious. you read the story before you around story the the justice department asked him not to run story and it all went all the way to the top is and the person not the wrong stories that he's been around. and they've said sharply criticized. but you still want to rational magazine order, and there was no way of you criticize somebody,

you show me and you know the old saying the truth is the best defense and that you had behind you joe. you and i went on to write a book together about the i was a beta case i wrote about the hunt for, i was a beta and his capture and torture. and then you wrote about his further torture and his treatment at guantanamo. i was of a to, we believed at the see i was the number 3 and i'll kinda, he wasn't, but a lot of people, particularly at my former, my former or his asian as the i did not like that book. not even a little bit, but then you went further and wrote an important book about the us military is use of toxic, burned pits in places like kosovo and iraq. what kind of challenges do you now face as a whistleblower who has focused for years on waste fraud, abuse and ill account in illegalities? specifically in the us military. what i,

i say is people loving the job. you came forward to because you came forward whistleblower, you want to use your position. you love that you want to make things better and that's what i want to see. what was better? not job going is trying to make your organization better in respect to me. that's what it is. yeah. and then for you personally, have things got easier as the years have, have gone by. i know, in my own case in the ca turned its attention 1st to add snowden and then to julian assange. and they sort of left me alone after a while. what's it been like for you with the military? have they finally moved on, or are you dealing with the fall out from your whistle blowing? no they, they've moved on pretty much alone for now. yeah. and then when

you continue to write books, have you encountered any further difficulties? no, you know what's funny about the forgot to mention is that the 1st review that come out amazon still there was by guy need crabtree was out for a half hour and i just, i read this hour but he wrote a chair. were you how much of a trader i was here? what person i was trying to strike crabtree is the public relations officer at one time. oh my god. oh yeah, that says a lot, my goodness. he didn't even have the presence of mind to use a made up name. you can use a name on, on amazon when you do a book review jason vehicle right away from the media circle. but they pretty much like that feedback from the verb

that it was an edge faster. see all the try to be fired from the john burns as well. so there's always been you know, that you're against on a really come to, i had a report that it was kind of interesting because they cur, garner who's j t f commander, one column of the size of january 9th. and he was telling them how long i was in person or what i told the reporter i'm back over here and they said, but you know, how did you say all this is true? what have you suicide? when it would take such a big cover? all these people, you know, i said, well, you know,

not too long ago professional football player pack so been killed by fracture side, good point. and it took 132 people live on a short way more than 152 people live. it would take much less to cover this up and such as you're still very much you are, you were involved. and they said, well, but you know, everybody is cartoon assisting. how do you know everybody's talking this? you don't know that you can't make that question. definitely not. well, joe hickman, please stay with us. we're going to take a short break and we're going to come right back with more you are watching the whistleblowers stay tuned. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah,

in the least counter russian state total never. i've stayed as i'm phoning northland scheme, devastation. i'm not getting all sunset for a week within the 55 when. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. when else with we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine. the state aren't russia today and split our t sport neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube with

canvas made it abundantly clear. we cannot wage a counter offensive without more weapons and ammunition from the west, the west, particularly washington. they show no interest in it, negotiated and to the conflict. in the meantime, ukraine becomes smaller and smaller. ah, welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john. carrie alco were speaking with us. military was a blower, joe hickman. joe, good to have you back as i mentioned you and i wrote a book together on the capture torture and imprisonment of i was a beta. but you went on to write this highly acclaimed book on the us military's use of burn pits, drilling down a little bit, what led you to this issue and what kind of reception did you get specifically from the military? once you began documenting the case against the bern pits was let me get yours.

my 1st book came out about that. that was a lot of soldiers were reaching out to at that time say great, that was the one soldier, one a one time. no. really thank you. great. so told her story and then you start hacking. just popping away. she's there for your case that i'm sorry i brought back from you tell me what happened. he told me, he said, this is a story you should say. a couple of days a year and then i took a couple of their names and the couple there by about 1400 it just blew up and all these people were sitting down. you know, so i decided there's something you know. yeah. tell us

a little bit about about the health and environmental impact of these burn fit, burn pits. we're talking about bulldozing literally everything into a field, spring it down with diesel fuel and then lighting on fire and i mean equipment, medical waste, plastic food, literally anything. and then all of the sudden animal carcasses, right? and then all of the sudden people started getting these rare cancers including brain cancers. and i will add that my, my best friend from high school, was, was responsible for the burn pits in for overseen the burn pits iraq. he came back from iraq and then developed a very rare brain cancer and died at the age of 48. what did you find in this investigation? what did i find this investigation? yes. how did you find? well, i started off basically where it was trash. yeah. so i combat

soldiers usually 90 pounds, trash a day per person. wow. we had a 100 people over there. we bought these facilities in retail over and so we had all that garbage from there. you know, to divert. so we had, like you said 10, your feels 50 tons of trash day alive or dead. 50 times at one point. it's just unbelievable amount. attraction and they're burning everything, but we really got me looking at it was we have the soldiers. what about the general population, yearian village. and i don't that they were there is a lot of these kids were coming. birth defects that were being born in the world was never seen before, which is the 1st time they receive along with people just getting rare brain

cancers in the villages. well outside chance it was truly a. busy disaster, it enormous proportion. always took a back or in still does today. yes, yes. did the military make any changes related to the policy of using bern pitts after the book came out shortly with, with all of the reports of cancer's including these brain cancer's and brain cancer that the son of president biden developed perhaps from the burn pits. and then, and then your own research, it seems like something auto have been done, where any policy changes implemented. there has been changes done to help. while i did see a standard operating procedure and set up a base and they're still not received. your students

don't understate from large for operational basis. like along with the with the 5000 or more. is that the average it was so i don't know i yes. if you go to war again, time will tell you if you put in high temperature incinerator, to be done trashes evolved over the years. it's not the same thing. styrofoam plastics and and you know, some people say that they were sick. sure not only, but trash is much worse and you know, it's as though joe, we learn nothing from, from the use of ne palm or burn pits in vietnam. i mean every, every school child knows you don't burn styrofoam,

and you don't burn plastic and you don't live next to the garbage dump and, and to the incinerator. yet we force our, our soldiers to do exactly those things. it just makes no sense to me. when saddam saying set the fire that was like the for the worst environmental disaster, they say in the history the world. but what about these that they right, they burns returning much. what about these birds that we had $273.00 on the 10 year hall. my god. you know that puts it in perspective. does they the military does not they, they, they preach a good environmental programs, you know, practice with the bridge. joe, tell us what your next project is. you become something of a cross between a whistleblower and an investigative journalist. what are you looking at next?

i am looking at i am looking you the 1st one ever told the sexual and how they're being recorded. how fantastic and made you want to walk to your. ready message pretty, pretty confidential right now, but it's well without the prep, without pressing you too far, it sounds like this is going to be something that is going to be newsworthy. like mainstream media, newsworthy. yes. it's gonna have to wow. and i hope you don't get too much a push back from the military. oh, you know, we live in that world. yeah. we did, we did. well, i would like to thank our guest today. ready joseph hickman, not just for joining us, but for his heroism in standing up to wrong doing. and i mean wrong doing at great

personal risk. remember, the arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice. those the words of doctor martin luther king. and thanks to people like joe hickman, we can live those words. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers i'm john kerry. aku, we're going to see you next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah, ah ah

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the headlines a national amended in yahoo says israel will determine its own policy in the face of us criticism over the prime minister's proposed judicial reform. meantime, some israeli officials are hinting that washington could, in some way be involved to the nationwide protests with iran and russia share their outlook on us sanctions. the ukrainian conflicts and a comprehensive strategic partnership between the 2 countries. a proxy war with russia is due to go through. oh, you said you said more than $2000000000.00 a day or 2 years from the journalist who was right there challenging kind of.