a very senior officer blows the whistle and jeopardizes his career. but that's exactly what our next guest did. and the united states is a better place because of his actions. i'm john kerry aku and you're watching the whistleblowers. ah, william bill binnie was the 4th ranking officer in the national security agency or n s a. at the time of the september 11th attacks. as the agencies technical director, he was one of the most highly cleared officers in the entire organization. after the september 11th attacks, the n s a and other national security agencies were scrambling to recover. and at the same time to make the u. s. a safer place. but some of the more cynical leaders at n s a. busy also saw an opportunity, they saw an opportunity to do something in the name of national security that had heretofore been denied to them. it was against the law. and indeed it was against

an a phase own charter to spy on american citizens or us persons. those people in the united states on a green card and essays director at the time general michael hayden decided to act immediately, knowing that his actions were in violation of the law. he likely believe that it was better to act now and ask forgiveness later he enacted a program allowing an essay to spy on literally every american. it was a game changing decision, patently illegal and extraordinarily expensive. our next guest and several of his colleagues decided to make a complaint to the department of defense inspector general, alleging that an essay was wasting millions and millions of dollars on trailblazer a system intended to analyze mass collection of data carried on communications networks, such as the internet bill biddy had been one of the inventors of an alternative system called thin thread, which was shelves when the more expensive and more intrusive trailblazer was chosen

. benny was publicly critical of an essay spying on american citizens after september. 11th saying that trailblazer quote was better than anything that the k g b, the stuffy, or the gestapo, and s, s, ever had, unquote. he added that and say with all of its advanced technology, had failed to uncover the 911 plot and he said, n s a had collected but had not analyzed information that would have garnered timely attention. with the leaner and more focused thin thread. we're happy to have bill benny with us today. welcome to the show, bill. bill, you were a very senior, an essay officer when the september 11th attacks occurred. as technical director, you were intimately involved in the creation of thin thread, which was an effective and cost effective technology designed to keep american safe and to disrupt future terrorist attacks. what happened to thin thread? why did an essays, leadership elect to go with trailblazer? and i don't mean to sound cynical,

but was this just because the $911.00 attacks allowed them an opportunity to do whatever it was that they wanted the lobby damned ah, yes. in fact, there was evidence that they wanted to do both acquisition of date on every us citizen, everybody in the world, even before 911. because they went to do a, jo nato was the ceo of quest corporation. and they asked him, this was in february, this isn't the court record by the way. this was in february of 2001 about 67 months before and 911 before 911. and they were asking in for all the data on all his customers, not meant you know, millions of us citizens as well as anybody else in the world using their system. so now that clearly showed the intent to do that. you recently did that because our didn't read program was working from and all the way to the back end into the whole system and functioning extremely well and could take in and i did. it was no, there was no math medical limit as to how much we could take him. i mean, this was

a designed that i helped put together and that was my team that did it. and we designed it to take in any amount of data and handle any indexing of anything and at any scale. and you know, they inclined it wouldn't scale, but they knew damn well it would because that's what they used after 911 to spy on everybody in the planet. that's what they're still using. they're still. those programs are still in the stuff that was compromised by a scout when he put it up. so i knew what these programs were. i knew exactly how they worked and i knew their capabilities there. there is no limit to it. i mean, you could put in hundreds of billions of trillions of transaction. it doesn't matter. i mean, it just doesn't matter. and it's terrible because i saw this is a fatality reinstate move. and i said that right from the beginning, internally and the government until they started to go after me. they did exactly to us back in 2007. what they did the trumpet my long you know, they sent people would gone santos. and they said, you know they,

they fabricated evidence that they were apa david, and the judges don't know anything. all they had to do is take them to assume they're getting told the truth and not being lied to bill. you had an absolutely horrible whistleblower experience. let's start at the beginning. you did exactly as you were always told to do. you went through the chain of command when you didn't get any satisfaction there you went to the pentagon inspector general. soon after the f. b. i rated your house and pulled you naked out of the shower to arrest you. tell us about that awful experience. well, you know, with the yacht, the 1st of all they there. i went through the on the dish, the inspector general, the department of defense. as you're instructed to, this is fine by regulation to us government regulation. you are required to report fraud, waste abuse, and criminality, and the inspector general the department of defense. if you're in the department fence, other departments have other inspected jobs. you're supposed to go through that? yeah, that's why we did. and, and we also went to the house intelligence committee,

the staff of their diane work that i knew. because i break there any number of times in there, say, and i went through her to report the, the unconstitutional unconstitutional violations of the, of the, an essay in violating the privacy rights of all us citizen. suppose everybody else in the world. i mean, they switched from doing from doing canada and, and that's that, that then would be a building an empire. that's what have you like to build an empire and have a big budget. but then under je that would give him evidence of everybody that's an opposing him. he would have evidence that he could interrogate and retroactively analyze, and actively watch current events or proceeding to see what people were thinking, planning or what they were. they weren't intending to do that, that's the power i gave him at that point. so those are 2 basic reasons they would do that. and my argument from the beginning was that that was an ineffective way.

you really wanted to do what intelligence is supposed to do. which is great project, predict intentions and capabilities of adversaries or threats. so in advance, so you can actually do something to stop them and prevent them. that's what until what he's supposed to do. what they've done by doing this bulk equitation mean they, there's too much data, they can't see the threat coming. they can't get through it to find in time to find the threat. so what they have to do is revert back to a police anything, but just branch. it's after the fact, here's the attack. who get it? well ok, we could find out that we could go with all this data and find on everybody in the past. they've never been associated for any number of decades. you know, you could reconstruct their entire network out of that, but that's a police job. that's not a intelligence job. and by admin, it may then all dysfunctional, they couldn't find the plots coming. the threats coming i miss worldwide. it's not just us, it's everybody's role going this way. you are never charged with any crime.

certainly you didn't commit any crime. you did exactly what a whistleblower is supposed to do, but your personal property was seized and held. you had to file a lawsuit years later to get it back. i know that in the case of tom drake, who's been on this show, he never got his property back, including every photograph ever taken of his 5 children. you, kirk, we b, and others had to hire attorneys at great personal expense. what were you accused of having done wrong? and what was the eventual outcome? actually, when we got it was, it was called a 41 g lawsuit. return a property up there, they sees it air required by law, and they violate this law. by the way, they're required by law to inform us 6 months after they seize our property, what, what property they're going to keep and what they're going to return. they never did, so we sued them like 5 years later. so in violation of that law. but then we went to court and we were ready to deal with any challenge they had coming

forward because we knew more about this whole thing. and they had a representative from say they're in the department of justice lawyer there. it was representing the government and it was we didn't pro say by the way by ourselves that was tom drake. kirk, we be at lewis and myself. we went in and represented ourselves in court and they mince meat of the government. they were just absolutely violation of the law and the only thing they could claim at the end and the judge had the front on the phone because he did, she needed to say face for the government. what they had to say, claim that we had some other got albert government agency sensitive material. well, i mean that godmother government agency never came into court to testify to that and we had no way they wouldn't tell us what it was. so we could defend it, so we had no due process and actually that issue, that was the one that said the government space. okay, that's the how to justify their rate on us basically. so, but that turned out to be, we found out later the department of justice guy finally confessed to what it was.

he said it was a, it was a paper for customs and border protection. while we did that as an unclassified contract for customs and border protection, analyzing, go through with their analysis process and make recommendations which we did. and that was our documentation of completing the contract. ah, but it was just a whole lot of his whole life. the judge didn't know anything different. i mean, they don't know anything in this business. and so they, they just take whatever the government says, it's as truth and it's an outright lie almost every time. like we had with trump, they were lying all the time. look at what they did was done with that dossier and so, and allies there and they supported those lies. look at those 51, cedar intelligence agency executives that were retired. they came out saying that all this is different, this business about, you know, any, the computer materials disinformation russian dis, information out just not right. why and the all new that. okay? so a part of this cabal to lie, to manipulate the courts,

to manipulate the population of the country. so you really can't trust anything that any of them say because they speak, as we used to say in the country. in fort tom, you know, lives, you did something else that all national security whistleblowers are encouraged to do. you went to the congressional oversight committee with your evidence of wrongdoing. but the house intelligence committee, employee, you were working with also had her house rated by the f b. i was the whole point to silence you. was it to keep the story of the waste of taxpayer money and the attack on american civil liberties from the public? yeah, that's what it was to keep us quiet next. i knew that that's why when a rated me i knew what the i they were doing and i was really getting mad at them. so when they told me i had to tell them some, this was a, ah, the thing i'll remember the asians name cedars agent charged hallmark. he was guy told me, you know, i tell me something that would implicate someone in

a crime while he was after tom drake and dian rourke. those are the 2 people that and say didn't like at the moment anyway. and so i said, well, i couldn't think of anything. i was a crime that they committed. he said, i think your line so it's ok. here's the lie. i know about george bush, dick cheney, hayden and tenant all conspired to subvert the constitution of the united states. and here's how they did it with a program called stellar wind. and i went through the entire process of collection of data on us citizens and compiling it inside and say, and setting it out there for people analyze and look at. and the only thing this guy could do when i was doing it, because all these other agents where it cleared for that program, he was away, but they weren't. so when i was doing that, the only thing he could do is look at the flow because i'm reporting a crime. now when you do that, the f b i supposed to investigate, did they do that? no, because they were part of the crime. and the reason that diane brought didn't get any anywhere, was because nancy pelosi and and, and, ah, for her gosh,

we're the, the hit chair and ranking members of the house intelligence committee at the time. and both of them agree to those programs as well as a cia programs in, in early november of 2001 long before she came in to report it to them. so they had already agreed, and that's why nancy pelosi when she was a speaker, the house said that day i'm teaching george bush's off the table. why? because she was already a part of the crimes in georgia. say okay, you're a part of it. do you have to be impeach herself? not so that's why she kept all impeachment upon possibilities off the floor at the cent or the house is out. had new peach 1st and then the senate would try. so that's why she did that. you're watching the whistleblowers. we're going to take a short break and returned to our conversation with famed an essay whistleblower phil benny stay to. 2 2 2 2 2

ah in i'm rick sanchez and i'm here played with you. whatever you do, do not watch my your show seriously. why watch something that so different my little opinions that you won't get anywhere else work of it. please do have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your facts for you, go ahead. i change and whatever you do. don't watch my show stay mainstream, because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change. should dwayne think ah, children at st and residential school suffered nightmarish levels of abuse,

torture and child rape. and yet the office of the attorney general suppressed thousands of pages of police and evidence that identified the perpetrators in the school. i was electrocuted twice. i was only 7 years old 1st too high for me. so for me to put me in the chair by the law warriors to run over here, abuse somebody and run here and she kept solution with himself. some of them are my relative. didn't make it jerking themselves to death over doses . but yeah, what it made me, it made me the person i am today because i'm afraid i don't give up with anything. investigations were too often handled differently because the deceased was indigenous. so many of the worst criminals got away. the bishop's got away. the ones we've done most of the damage never got charged

ah ah. 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john carrie aka were speaking with former an essay technical director, bill binnie, about his experience blowing the whistle on waste fraud and abuse at the national security agency. bill, upon the fallout from your revelations was that even though you had done nothing wrong, nothing illegal, all within the confines of the law and of normal. and as

a procedure, you were stripped of your security clearance. did you ever get it back? was there ever any admission of wrong doing on the part of an essay? well, i mean, as long as you're perpetuating ally yet to stick with it. in other words, if they ever admit their line than that the whole house of cards falls and it falls in a major way. so they had to stick with the law, they started and they, they had to keep it going. but i'm not here to say that all the basic evidence says it's an outright lie. this was downloaded internally locally in the end and at the and see and all the stuff that they were accusing. others are doing is false. the predicate for going up to flint and stone was false, and that's why they would let me testify to it. so you know, it's just that my, yeah, i really unless we start wising up here and people start getting active to do things and fire these idiots. get rid of them,

send people and will actually do something. but we have some respect for a constitution rights of individuals and humanity. if we don't have that, that and you know, where do i, i been calling us the 1st of all, we've got a department of just us and we, the people are not part of it. and you know, we are of the largest most populous newest, banana republic in the world. and unfortunately, that's the way it is. look at what's coming out. they're getting so so arrogant about their brazen about it because it's a, they're now have so much power. they don't care what anybody thinks. they're going to say, what can you do about it? you know? but you can see that they're afraid of us because they trumped up as crap on on 6 january and are using that to try to try to keep everybody under under. i also also try to get marshall lost on base. that's what they're doing. they allowed that to happen so that they could do this. that's how you keep power and control over

people. you don't want to have to, you don't want the people to realize that they have the real power. if they want to do something about it. but 1st of all, they have to recognize it and say, gee, i got the power and i could do it and get up and do something for god sake. you are frequently in the news talking about the technical side of elections and related issues. many of us have taken heat as you have for demanding to see evidence of election interference. for example, russia gate was arguably the biggest story of the last 10 years. and in the end, the mother report offered no proof that there was any russian interference in the 2016 election or again in 2020. are these accusations which seem to be constant now just something we're going to have to live with, or is it possible to successfully demand evidence of accusation? i kept it is because of and i had a project, you know, they and they had, the evidence was clearly there that the august material, the wiki weeks posted, was downloaded locally out of the dmc database. and i was surprised that there was

no, it wasn't a belief or anything that was just the basic forensics information and said, yeah, there it is. this is a bad fall allocation table format that downloads data to what to some drive cd roms, you know, little memory sticks up a mainframe computer so they can try and keep us out out of everything. so they don't want to hear from me. i have been trying to get into court with them, but i can't get there. finally, bill, i wanted to ask you a question that i get all the time. there are so many different communication apps out there, including whatsapp signal, viber or proton mail, telegram and to to nota, among others. many of us just assume that intelligence services around the world and even tech companies have back doors into these communications. and that many of them are not really safe or any better than others. what's the best way to have

a private conversation? i actually, the best way is to do it in person with no electronic devices at hand. that's the safest. ah, i would say the other way said the postal mail, but even that can be they do a photograph of the outside of it for the address and, and that gives them that too from like, like you do on a phone call or an email or anything also, financial transaction, all that though, it goes right into the, into the graph building, which is the relationship building of everybody in the planet. no, all that goes into that for retro back analysis or an analysis of any time. and you know, so it's a, it's a, it's a matter and nothing is safe. and i mean, no matter what you do, you can't hide the addressing because got it to have there. it's got to be there to be able to round it in the world. you know, so in order, if you can't, you don't have the address to a certain person or certain machine in the world. you can't send something to it. so you know that and that's how you build relationships over time. the thing about

crypt and most of it is a linear thought correcting and it's not the it's not the, it's not safe in my view because of all the, the muscular program i think is one the snowdon compromised that dealt with gretchen and a compromising encryption with companies and they and the, and the government in a say in spectacular. ah, so i just don't treat any of them safe. i don't bother encrypting anything because it even it, even if the encryption is successful, what they can do is they can penetrate through device, go in and download what you've decrypted, that it gives them the basic content of what you've been saying. ah, you know that, that, that, that's something that the, for example, they, they, they were doing it even to the companies that they were working with. like, for example, google and all of them when they, when they backed up their data after the fact they, they had a program to tap in and catch the back up,

which meant they got everything they had. instead of just going in. the prism program was a charade. that was they, that was the program. they put out there for the judges to look at. so they didn't know any better and say, here were falling the lot. c b asked for something that you gave us a warrant for. now, and here we ask these companies like that's how we follow up. well, in the background on the, on the fiber up ups, ups, upstream, collected process. they were collecting everything going across the virus and when, when they backed it up, they copied everything that so, you know, they were telling that and using it as a charade to show that they were vibrant, they were falling off when they weren't. right. and they never told the judges this . in fact, that's part of the part of the programs. how you use in a say, did you never tell the judges you never tell the court, you never put it in affidavit, you never do anything publicly that can be acquired, probably. and, and you don't even tell your own attorneys that are prosecuted. you just given the date and say, here's that, here's the, here's the evidence to convict. so you know that they're there and make a charade. and, and, and,

and i would point out also that when the amnesty international versus clapper was, went to the supreme court, that was the case challenging some of this, ah, this, the solicitor general of the united states lied to the supreme court get case thrown out. he said, well, if anybody's been to anybody in a criminal case, there, if any place was an essay tatum's use against them in that court, they would be tall. i was a lot, no one has ever been. so you know, the hook o thing is corrupt in those parts. there aren't corrupt or being lie do internally by the government itself. so this, i, you know, unless we start getting wising up and doing something, john, you know, this country is going down fast. you've been watching the whistleblowers. i'd like to thank our guest bill benny and thank you for joining us. i'm john kerry aka join us again next week for another episode of the whistleblowers. ah

ah, we have this to boom on tenderness from united states. we've exported it now to the world because the multinational corporations and we've been damaged the belief that babies need being nurtured and care for and love. and so you've got a bunch of trauma ties, people all over the world with post traumatic stress disorder that don't know how to heal cars. they already have cars, a sheep here, because they kept us girl for a few or just the greater finland to the euros. the nazi theory of racial superiority finish style. for years

of caribbean ss, occupation, 14 concentration camps. 30 full prisoner of war, labor camps. 10 prisons. daily. we'll get to the little school level. she's the finish on a senior. i need in the chest. maybe to get all and i could, elephants been the senior bill's gonna be an approximately 25000 people went through the audio kind of go finish camps according to official figures, his booster, dumbly level. if the ship did you do idea legged medina? shashika, i get a so, so young caucus tammy, here with famine disease forced labor torture by the warden. so for mutual is giving up a load of leather that also need, you know, i thought so deep. if you got that. he said, you're gonna move it off with those economy's 9 bushnell things up will give her what she'll do. good, good, good. those thousands of testimonies of crimes in the impunity of criminals.

nothing more. and you've a guy here, you know, one or 2. so i get a big maryan, a good idea. yeah. what a good i feel. it's not by me. it absolutely got to really interesting because i it, but there's being yet that was but it lula a with

a life. they want to do everything in their power to preserve their privileged position in the world, russia, 70 ambassadors, the un. how god see after a recent security council meeting that western power have an insatiable drive to maintain that global hegemony with further comes down on freedom of the press in the country, the new law empowering the state to shut down political move out. and india flagship, a line will continue flights in russian essays despite pressure from western

power. with.