during a religious festival in india, the structure which covered a d, well at a temple collapse under the weight of a large crowd during a do religious service. emergency workers have been using cranes, i'm ropes in their search for potential victims. those efforts have been complicated by especially dog. i'm my, the conditions prime is certain to render. modi has expressed, has been, does, is over the answer. you said he was, quote, extremely pained and would provide sufficient government support for the relief efforts. the internal court of justice has rejected aaron's request to regain control of about $2000000000.00 of it. central bank assets frozen by the us. but the court has ordered the us to provide compensation to run these law. mac republic of iran believes that the ruling issued by the international court of justice shows the solidity of rounds arguments in the

righteousness of iran's request. in this important verdict, the icy j correctly rejected all the fake defences of the us. international court, i've held the earth objection to roz jurisdiction over the font, which have amounted to almost $2000000000.00 in bonds and accumulated interest. but it can see that washington seizure of the iranian assets breach 81955 treaty between the 2 countries. and so it must provide a degree of compensation but left the amount to be determined later on. iran initially appeal to the hague base court in 2016 off the u. s. supreme court ruled that the money should good, the victims of legit terrorist attacks. we heard a frontier royal university professor, said mohammed by monday he agreed with certain aspects of the ruling, but said the court is biased in favor of western powers. the court

should be fair, did expose the fact that the u. s. case was irrational. it was not justified and that the right in position was reasonable and within the framework of law. and in that sense, it was a positive ruling. united states has expose itself to be a country that steals it, steal iranian ships, deals iranian oil. it feels well from iranian bank accounts. on the other hand, the i c. c shows itself to be toothless because it admits that the iranian case is valid and that the american argument is not acceptable. and the one hand, i think it shows that the i, c,

c is not credible. it is feeble. it is too much way too much under the influence of western power. hello ross, up this news on the whistle. blows is next animal in black with tumble there with . 2 2 2 we've talked a lot about national security whistleblowers this season. the average whistleblower is somebody in the middle of his or her career who sees evidence of waste fraud abuse illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. those whistleblowers usually have

5 to 15 years or so in their agencies and they're concerned about upholding their own to the constitution. it's unusual when a senior officer, a very senior officer, blows the whistle and jeopardizes his career. but that's exactly what our next guest did. and the united states is a better place because of his actions. i'm john kerry aku and you're watching the whistleblowers. ah william bill binnie was the 4th ranking officer in the national security agency or an essay at the time of the september 11th attacks. as the agencies technical director, he was one of the most highly cleared officers in the entire organization. after the september 11th attacks, the an essay and other national security agencies were scrambling to recover. and at the same time to make the u. s. a safer place. but some of the more cynical leaders at an essay. busy also saw an opportunity,

they saw an opportunity to do something in the name of national security that had heretofore been denied to them. it was against the law, and indeed it was against an essays own charter to spy on american cit.

we're happy to have bill benny with us today. welcome to the show, bill. bill, you were a very senior, an essay officer when the september 11th attacks occurred. as technical director, you were intimately involved in the creation of thin thread, which was an effective and cost effective technology designed to keep american safe

and to disrupt future terrorist attacks. what happened to thin thread? why did an essays, leadership elect to go with trailblazer? and i don't mean to sound cynical, but was this just because the $911.00 attacks allowed them an opportunity to do whatever it was that they wanted the lobby, damned yes. infected was evidence that they wanted to do, book acquisition update on every us citizen, everybody in the world, even before 911. because they went to do. jo nato was the ceo of quest corporation, and they asked him, this was in february, this isn't a court record by the way. this was in february of 2001 about 67 months before and 911 before 911. and they were asking him for all the data on all his customers, not meant you know, millions of us citizens as well as anybody else in the world using their system. so now that clearly showed the intent to do that. you recently did that because our didn't read program was working from and all the way to the back end into the whole

system and functioning extremely well and could take in n. i did, it was no, there was no mathematical limit as to how much we could take him. i mean, this was a designed that, but i helped put together and that was my team that did it. and we designed it to take in any amount of data and handle any indexing of anything and at any scale. and you know, they declined that wouldn't scale. they knew damn well it would because that's what they used after 911 to spy on everybody in the planet. that's what they're still using. they're still. those programs are still in the stuff that was compromised by a scout when he put it out. so i knew what these programs were, i knew exactly how they worked and i knew their capabilities there. there is no limit to what i mean. you could put in hundreds of billions of trillions of transaction. it doesn't matter. i mean, it just doesn't matter. and it's terrible because i saw this is a fatality reinstate move. and i said that right from the beginning, internally in the government until they started to go after me. they did exactly to

us back in 2007. what they did the trumpet, my log in or they sent people, we've gone santos, and they said, you know, they, they fabricated evidence that they were appa david and the judges don't know anything. all they had to do is take them to assume they're being told the truth. they're not being lied to. absolutely horrible whistleblower experience. let's start at the beginning. you did exactly as you were always told to do. you went through the chain of command when you didn't get any satisfaction there you went to the pentagon inspector general. soon after the f. b. i rated your house and pulled you naked out of the shower to arrest. you. tell us about that awful experience. well, you know the yacht, the 1st of all they there i went through the ah, the, did the inspector general the department of defense as your instructor to this is fine by regulation to us government regulation. you are required to report fraud, waste abuse, and criminality. and the inspector general, the department of defense,

if you're in the department vents, other departments have other inspected jobs. you're supposed to go through that. that's why we did. and, and we also went to the house intelligence committee, the staff, are there, diane work that i knew because i break there any number of times in, in, in a say. and i went through her to report the, the unconsciously due to unconstitutional violations of the, of the, in a say in violating the privacy rights of all us citizens. well, as everybody else in the world, i mean, they switched from doing from doing spying on groups of people who are like military's and smuggling drug smuggling groups or, you know, terrorist groups, things like that. they went from doing that to spying on individuals. everybody on the planet. so when they did that, i mean, you know right away, there were only 2 reasons, right? number one to do it. would it costs a lot of money, which, which we've all paid for that by $10000000.00 a year for the last 20 years. you know, you can it up and, and that's that,

that then would be a building an empire. that's what have you like to build an empire and have a big budget. but then under change, that would give him evidence of everybody that's an opposing him. you would have evidence that he could interrogate and retroactively analyze, and actively watch as current events or proceeding to see what people were thinking, planning or what they were they were intending to do. that's. that's the power it gave him at that point. so those are 2 basic reasons they would do that. and my argument from the beginning was that that was an ineffective way you really want to do what intelligence is supposed to do, which is great project, predict intentions and capabilities of adversaries or threats. so in advance, so you can actually do something to stop them and present them. that's what intelligence suppose. what they've done by doing this bulk at positions mean they, there's too much data, they can't see the threat coming and i can't get through it to find it in time to

find the threat. so what they have to do is revert back to a police anything, but just forensics after the fact. here's the attack, who get it? well ok, we can find out then we could go with all this data and find on everybody in the past. if they've ever been associated for any number of decades, you know, you could reconstruct their entire network out of that. but that's a police job. that's not a intelligence job. and by admin, it may then all dysfunctional, they couldn't find the plots. coming of the threats coming i miss world. why? it's not just us, it's everybody's role going this way. you were never charged with any crime. certainly you didn't commit any crime. you did exactly what a whistleblower is supposed to do, but your personal property was seized and held. you had to file a lawsuit years later to get it back. i know that in the case of tom drake, who's been on this show, he never got his property back, including every photograph ever taken of his 5 children. you, kirk, we b, and others,

had to hire attorneys at great personal expense. what were you accused of having done wrong? and what was the eventual outcome? actually, when we got it was, it was called a 41 g lawsuit. return a property up, they sees that they're required by law and they violate this law. by the way, they're required by law to inform us 6 months after they seize our property, what, what property they're going to keep and what they're going to return. they never did. so we sued them like 5 years later. so in violation of that law. but then we went to court and we were ready to deal with any challenge they had coming for it because we knew more about this whole thing. and they had a representative from a there, and the department of justice lawyer there, it was representing the government. and it was we didn't pro say by the way by ourselves that was tom drake. we be at lewis and myself. we went in and represented ourselves in court and they mincemeat of the government. they were just absolute violation of the law. and the only thing they could claim at the end and the judge

had to front them a phone cuz she did, she needed to save face for the government. what they had to say, claim that we had some other got other government agencies sensitive material. well, i mean that got other government agencies never came into court to testify to that and we had no way they wouldn't tell us what it was. so we could defend it. so we had no due process and actually that issue, that was the one that said the government space. okay, that's the how to justify their rate on us basically. so but that turned out to be, we found out later the department of justice guy, fine with confess to what it was. he said it was a, it was a paper for customs and border protection. well we did that is non classified contract customs and border protection, analyzing go through their analysis process and make recommendations which we did. and that was our documentation of completing the contract. but it was just a whole whole why the judge didn't know anything different. i mean, they don't know anything in this business,

and so they just take whatever the government says this as proof. and it's an outright lie almost every time. like when it would drop, they were lying all the time, look at what they did with them with that, that da da and so, and allies there and they supported those lives and look at those $51.00 senior intelligence agency executives that were retired that came out saying that's all this is different. there's business about, you know, any of the computer materials, just information russian disinformation that was just not right. why? and they all knew that. ok, so part of this cabal, why manipulate the course and manipulate the populations of the country? so you really can't trust anything that any of them say because they speak as we used to say in the country. you know, for tom, you know, like you did something else that all national security whistleblowers are encouraged to do. you went to the congressional oversight committee with your evidence of wrongdoing, but the house intelligence committee, employee, you were working with also had her house rated by the f

b. i was the whole point to silence you. was it to keep the story of the waste of taxpayer money and the attack on american civil liberties from the public? yeah, that's what it was to keep quiet and that's i knew that that's why when they rated me, i knew what they were doing. and i was really getting mad at them. so when they told me i had to tell them some, this was the thing i remember the name seniors agent charged hallmark. he was guy told me, you know, like tell me something that would implicate someone in a crime while he's after tom drake and dian war. those are the 2 people that and say didn't like at the moment anyway. and so i said, well, i couldn't think of any dana was a crime that they'd committed. he said, well, i think your line so it's ok. here's the lie. i know about george bush dick cheney, hayden and tenant all conspired to subvert the constant attention of the united states. and here's how they did it with the program called stellar wind. i went

through the entire process of collection of data on us citizens and compiling it inside an essay and sending it out there for people analyze it, look at. and the only thing this guy could do when i was doing it, because all these other agents were clear for that program, he was but they weren't. so when i was doing that, the only thing he could do is look at the flow. because i'm reporting a crime now when you do that the f b, i supposed to investigate that. they do that now because they're a part of the crime. and the reason that diane brought didn't get any anywhere, was because nancy pelosi and, and, and, ah, porter goss with the heck chair and ranking members of the house intelligence committee at the time. and both of them agree to those programs as well as a cia programs in, in early november of 2001 long before she came in to report it to them. so they had already agreed. and that's why nancy pelosi when she was a speaker vows, said that they are teaching george bush is off the table. why?

because she was already a part of the crimes. and george to say, okay, you're a part of the, do you have to be impeach yourself? not so that's why she kept all impeachment all possibilities off the floor in the senate or the house. because out had room peach 1st and then the senate would try. so that's why she did that. you're watching the whistleblowers, we're going to take a short break and returned to our conversation with famed an essay whistleblower phil binnie stay to. 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah, ah, we have this, so boom on tenderness from united states. we've exported it now to the world because the multinational corporations and we've been damaged the belief that babies needs to be nurtured in care of who are in love and, and so you've got

a bunch of trauma ties, people all over the world with post traumatic stress disorder that don't know how to heal with . 2 ah. 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers i'm john kerry. aku, were speaking with former an essay technical director, bill binnie, about his experience blowing the whistle on waste fraud and abuse at the national security agency. bill. a part of the fallout from your revelations was that even though you had done nothing wrong, nothing illegal. all within the confines of the law and of normal and essay

procedure, you were stripped of your security clearance. did you ever get it back? was there ever any admission of wrongdoing on the part of an essay? well, i mean, as long as you're perpetuating a lie, you have to stick with it. in other words, if they ever admit their line then that the whole house of cards falls and it falls in a major way. so they have to stick with the law. they started and they, they had to keep it going. but i'm, i'm here to say that all the basic governance says it's an outright lie. this was downloaded internally locally in the dnc and all the stuff that they were accusing . others are doing is false. the predicate for going up to flynn and stone was false, and that's why they would let me testify to it. so you know, it's just that my. yeah, i really, unless we start wising up here and people start getting active to do things and fire these idiots. get rid of them,

send people and we'll actually do something where we have some respect for a constitution rights of individuals and humanity. if we don't have that, then you know, where do i, i been calling us the 1st of all, we've got a department of just us and we, the people are not part of it. and you know, we are the largest most populous newest, banana republic in the world. and unfortunately, that's the way it is. look at what's coming out. they're getting so so arrogant about their brazen about it because it's a, they're now have so much power. they don't care what anybody thinks. they're going to say, what can you do about it? you know? but you can see that they're afraid of us because they trumped up as crap on to on 6, january and are using that to try to try to keep everybody under under are also also trying to get marshall lost on the basis. that's what they're doing. they allowed that to happen so that they could do this. that's how you keep power and control over people. you don't want to have to,

you don't want the people to realize that they had the real power that they want to do something about it. like 1st of all they have to recognize it and say, gee, i got the power and i could do it and get up and do something for god's sake. you are frequently in the news, talking about the technical side of elections and related issues. many of us have taken heat as you have for demanding to see evidence of election interference. for example, russia gate was arguably the biggest story of the last 10 years. and in the end, the mother report offered no proof that there was any russian interference in the 2016 election or again in 2020. are these accusations which seem to be constant now, just something we're going to have to live with, or is it possible to successfully demand evidence of accusations? i, for 1 am loath to just take the cia or essays word for it when they make accusations of election interference, what do you think? absolutely. it's the a, f, b i department, the drug enforcement administration and other agencies,

the government like the home don't part of homeland security. i r s has access to it. that's all we could go after the tea party. you know, because all they did and that's all i kept. it is because of 2 things. wanted to report in august the 2013. after the material came out, lawyers got it and said, here's how here are the regulations for using an essay data 1st to arrest people. and then how, what you have to do to do a parallel construction that is construct the same material, then substitute that material for the se date in the quarter law as you can introduce. and if they did, it wasn't acquired with a warrant. you know, so they falsified that and they, they put themselves in court to put people in jail. they're trying to cover it up with all kinds of weight. i even tried to take it into court in, for example, in the case against when general, when a case against the raj don't. and i had a petition with julian john l h u car going into the supreme court which was rejected. and they,

they wouldn't mind testify in the either the stone or flint cases. so they had to keep me out because, you know, i was just pointing out the basic facts, you know, the and then the evidence was clearly there that the august material that was posted was downloaded locally out of the d n. c database. and i was surprised that there was no, it wasn't a belief or anything that was just the basic forensics information. it said, yeah, there it is. this is a bad fall allocation table format that downloads data to what to some drive cd roms, you know, little memory sticks off a mainframe computer so they could try and keep us out of everything. so they don't want to hear from me. i have been trying to get into court with them, but i can't get there. finally, bill, i wanted to ask you a question that i get all the time. there are so many different communication apps

out there, including whatsapp signal, viber proton mail telegram, and to denote a among others. many of us just assume that intelligence services around the world and even tech companies have backdoors into these communications. and that many of them are not really safe or any better than others. what's the best way to have a private conversation? actually, the best way is to do it in person with no electronic devices at hand. ah, i would say the other way that the postal mail, but even that can be they do a photograph of the outside of it for the addressing. and that gives them the to, from like, like you do on a phone call or an email or anything else, the financial transactional that goes right into the, into the graph building, which is the relationship building of everybody in the planet. you know, all that goes into that for retro back up analysis or analysis at any time. you know, so it's a, it's a, it's a matter. nothing is safe. i mean,

no matter what you do, you can't hide the machine that's got to have there. it's got to be there to be able, are routed in the world, you know, so in order, if you can't, you don't have the address to a certain person or certain machine in the world. you can't send something to it. so, you know, and that's how you build relationships over time. the thing about crypt most of it is linear thought, correcting. and it's not the, it's not the, not safe in my view, because of all the, the muscular program i think is one, the snowden compromise that dealt with the encryption and the compromising encryption with companies and, and, and the government in a say in particular. so i just don't treat any of them to say, i don't bother encrypting anything because if, even if, even if the encryption is successful, what they can do is they can penetrate through device, go in and download what you've decrypted. so that gives them the basic content of

what you've been saying. ah, you know that, that, that, that's something that the, for example, they, they were doing it even to the companies that they were working with. like, for example, google and all of them when they, when they backed up their data after the fact they, they had a program to tap in and catch the back up, which meant they got everything they had. instead of just going in. the prism program was a charade. that was they, that was the program. they put out there for the judges to look at. so they didn't know any better and say, here were falling the lot. see we asked for something that you gave us a warrant for. now, and here we ask these companies like that's how we follow up. well, in the background, on the, on the fiber up ups, ups, upstream, collected process. they were collecting everything going across the virus and when, when they backed it up, they copied everything that so, you know, they were telling the, and using it as a charade to show that they were vibrant, they were fall off when they weren't. right. and they never told the judges this. in fact, that's part of the part of the programs. how you use in a 2nd,

and you never tell the judges, you never tell the court, you never put an affidavit, you never do anything publicly that can be acquired. probably, and, and you don't even tell your own attorneys that are prosecuted. you just given the date and say, here's that, here's the, here's the evidence to convict. so you know that they've been there and make a charade. and, and, and, and i would point out also that when an amnesty international versus clapper was, went to the supreme court, that was the case challenging some of this, ah, this, the solicitor general of the united states lied to the supreme court get case thrown out. he said, well, if anybody's, the, to anybody in a criminal place there, if anybody's was, and i say did him do you suggest them in that court they would be tall. i was a lot. no one has ever been. so you know, the hope o thing is corrupt and those parts are correct. you're being lied to internally by the government itself. so i, you know, unless we start getting wising up and doing something, john, you know,

this country is going down fast. you've been watching the whistleblowers. i'd like to thank our guest bill benny and thank you for joining us. i'm john kerry. aku join us again next week for another episode of the whistleblowers. ah ah. what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on often staring dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. it's very critical time time to sit down and talk with

they want to do everything in their power to preserve their privileged position in the world. russia devotee, i'm back to the u. n. to reset security council meeting that western power have insatiable drive to maintain lead global edge of any crane further comes out on the freedom of the press in the country. the neutral, empowering the state, shut down political news out with you. going to have that on the also to few didn't see new clergy members of collaborating with russia despite international religious figures. a very belief each system.