during the landing in milan, and although it was attributed to bad weather at the time, 3 decades later, the sicilian mafia admitted to having blown the plane up. now in high stakes, were all the big oil. there are a lot of smoky mirrors and no blows for sure, and things aren't always what they seem to be at 1st glance. but as we've also seen with a recent sabotage at the north stream pipelines, the closer the entity is to russia and to russian interests, the more incoming fire, it seems to take these days. yeah, of course as, as it will be shuttled there francois was by the way, this week, the 1st european country to facilitate an ellen g purchase between the u. e and china. but it was done in chinese. you want anyway, more news when a router got to be at the top of ah ah

ah ah. 2 2 2 2 we've talked a lot about national security whistleblowers this season. the average whistleblower is somebody in the middle of his or her career who sees evidence of waste fraud abuse illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. those whistleblowers usually have 5 to 15 years or so in their agencies and they're concerned about upholding their own to the constitution. it's an usual when a senior officer,

a very senior officer, blows the whistle and jeopardizes his career. but that's exactly what our next guest did, and the united states is a better place because of his actions. i'm john kerry aku, and you're watching the whistleblowers. ah, the william bill binnie was the 4th ranking officer in the national security agency or an essay at the time of the september 11th attacks. as the agencies technical director, he was one of the most highly cleared officers in the entire organization. after the september 11th attacks, the n s a and other national security agencies were scrambling to recover. and at the same time to make the u. s. a safer place. but some of the more cynical leaders at n s a. busy also saw an opportunity, they saw an opportunity to do something in the name of national security that had heretofore been denied to them. it was against the law. and indeed it was against

any phase own charter to spy on american citizens or u. s. persons. those people in the united states on a green card and essays director at the time general michael hayden decided to act immediately. knowing that his actions were in violation of the law. he likely believe that it was better to act now and ask forgiveness later he enact a program, allowing an essay to spy on literally every american. it was a game changing decision, patently illegal and extraordinarily expensive. our next guest and several of his colleagues decided to make a complaint in the department of defense inspector general, alleging that an essay was wasting millions and millions of dollars on trailblazer a system intended to analyze mass collection of data carried on communications networks, such as the internet bill biddy had been one of the inventors of an alternative system called thin thread, which was shelves when the more expensive and more intrusive trailblazer was chosen

. benny was publicly critical of an essay spying on american citizens after september. 11th saying that trailblazer quote was better than anything that the k g b, the stuffy, or the gestapo, and s, s, ever had, unquote. he added that and say with all of its advanced technology, had failed to uncover the 911 plot. and he said an essay had collected but had not analyzed information that would have garnered timely attention. with the leaner and more focused fin thread. we're happy to have bill benny with us today. welcome to the show bill. bill, you were a very senior, an essay officer when the september 11th attacks occurred. as technical director, you were intimately involved in the creation of thin thread, which was an effective and cost effective technology designed to keep american safe tax. what happened to thin through whoever it was that they wanted the lobby, you know, a quest corporation, and they asked him, this was in february,

this is in the court referenced by the way this was in february of 2001 about 67 months before and 911 before 911, and they were asking in for all the data and all his customers, you know, millions of us citizens as well as anybody else in the world using their system. so now that clearly showed the intent to do that. and the reason i did that because i didn't read program was working from and all the way to the back end into the whole system and functioning extremely well and could take it. and i did. it was no, there was no math medical limit as to how much we could take him. i mean, this was a design that i helped put together and that was my team that did it. and we designed it to take in any amount of data and handle any indexing of anything and at any scale. and you know, they inclined it wouldn't scale, but they knew damn well it would because that's what they used after 911 to spy on everybody in the planet. that's what they're still using. the still, those programs are still in the stuff that was compromised by

a snowden when he put it out. so i know what these programs were. i knew exactly how they worked. i knew their capabilities there, there is no limit to it. i mean, you could put in hundreds of billions of trillions of transaction. it doesn't matter. i mean, it just doesn't matter. and it's terrible because i saw this is a fatality reinstate move. and i said that right from the beginning, internally in the government until they started to go after me. they did exactly to us back in 2007. what they did the trumpet my long you know, they sent people we've gone santos. and they said, you know they, they fabricated evidence that they were apa david, and the judges don't know anything. all they had to do is take them to assume they're getting told the truth and not being lied to bill. you had an absolutely horrible whistleblower experience. let's start at the beginning. you did exactly as you were always told to do. you went through the chain of command when you didn't get any satisfaction there you went to the pentagon inspector general. soon after

the f. b. i rated your house and pulled you naked out of the shower to arrest you. tell us about that awful experience. well, you know the yacht, the 1st of all, they there. i went through the on the dish, the inspector general, the department of defense. as you're instructed to, this is fine by regulation, the u. s. government regulation. you are required to report fraud, waste, abuse, and criminality, and the inspector general the department of defense. if you're in the department fence, other departments have other inspected jobs. you're supposed to go through that? yeah, that's why we did. and, and we also went to the house intelligence committee, the staff, are there diane work that i knew? because i break there any number of times in, in an essay. and i went through her to report the, the unconstitutional unconstitutional violations of the, of the, an essay in violating the privacy rights of all us citizen, supposed everybody else in the world. so i mean, they switched from doing,

from doing spying on, groups of people who are like militaries and smuggling drug smuggling groups or with terrorist groups, things like that. they went from doing that and to spying on individuals, everybody on the planet. so when they did that, i mean, you know right away there were only 2 reasons, right? number one to do it. would it cost a lot of money which, which we've all paid for that about $10000000000.00 a year for the last 20 years. you know, you counted up and, and that, that, that then would be a building an empire. that's what have you like to build an empire and have a big budget. but then under je that would give him evidence of everybody that's an opposing him. you would have evidence that he could interrogate and retroactively analyze, and actively watch current events or proceeding to see what people were thinking, planning or what they were they were intending to do. that's. that's the power it gave him at that point. so those are 2 basic reasons they would do that. my

argument from the beginning was that that was an ineffective way you really want to do what intelligence is supposed to do, which is create project, predict intentions and capabilities of adversaries or threats. so in advance, so you can actually do something to stop them and present them. that's what intelligence suppose. what they've done by doing this bulk exposition, mean they, there's too much data. they can't see the threat coming. they can't get through to find in time to find the threat. so what they have to do is revert back to a policing thing, but just branch. it's after the fact. here's the attack. who get it? well ok, we can find out that we could go with all this data and find out everybody in the past they've ever been associated for any number of decades. you know, you could reconstruct their entire network out of that, but that's a police job. that's not a intelligence job. and by admin it may then old is functional. they couldn't find the plots coming of the threats coming. and this world why it's not just us,

it's everybody's role going this way. you are never charged with any crime. certainly you didn't commit any crime. you did exactly what a whistleblower is supposed to do, but your personal property was seized and held. you had to file a lawsuit years later to get it back. i know that in the case of tom drake, who's been on this show, he never got his property back, including every photograph ever taken of his 5 children. you, kirk, we b, and others, had to hire attorneys at great personal expense. what were you accused of having done wrong? and what was the eventual outcome? actually, when we got it was, it was called a 41 g lawsuit. return a property up, they sees it, they're required by law, and they violate this law by way, they're required by law to inform us 6 months after they seize our property, what, what property they're going to keep and what they're going to return. they never did. so we sued them like 5 years later, so in violation of that law. but then we went to court and we were ready to deal

with any challenge they had coming for it because we knew more about this whole thing. and they had a representative from a there, and the department of justice lawyer there, it was representing the government. and it was we didn't pro say by the way by ourselves that was tom drake. we be at lewis and myself. we went in and represented ourselves in court and they mincemeat of the government. they were just absolutely violation of the law. and the only thing they could claim at the end and the judge had the front on the phone because she did, she needed to say face for the government. what they had to say claim that we had some other got albert government agency sensitive material. well, i mean, that godmother government agency never came into court to testify to that and we had no way they wouldn't tell us what it was, so we could defend it. so we had no due process and actually that issue, that was the one that said the government space. okay, that's the how to justify their rate on us basically. so,

but that turned out to be, we found out later the department of justice guy finally confessed to what it was. he said it was a, it was a paper for customs and border protection. well, we did that as non classified contractor customs and border protection, analyzing go through their analysis process and make recommendations which we did. and that was our documentation of completing the contract. but it was just the whole whole why the judge didn't know anything different. i mean, they don't know anything in this business. and so they, they just take whatever the government says is as proof. and it's an outright lie almost every time. like when it would drop, they were lying all the time, look at what they did with them with that, that dos, the a and so in allies there and they supported those lies. look at those 51 senior intelligence agency executives that were retired, that came out saying that's all this is different. there's business about, you know, any of the computer materials, just information rushing this information that was just not why. and they all knew that. ok,

so part of this clause why manipulate the course and manipulate the population of the country. so you really can't trust anything that any of them say because they speak as we used to say in the country. you know, for time, you know, lives, you did something else that all national security whistleblowers are encouraged to do. you went to the congressional oversight committee with your evidence of wrongdoing. but the house intelligence committee, employee, you were working with also had her house rated by the f b. i was the whole point to silence you. was it to keep the story of the waste of taxpayer money and the attack on american civil liberties from the public? yeah, that's what it was to keep quiet that's. i knew that that's why when they rated me, i knew what the why they were doing it and i was really getting mad at them. so when they told me i had to tell them some, this was the thing i remember the name seniors agent charged hallmark he was guy told me, you know,

tell me something that would implicate someone in a crime while he was after tom drake and dian war. those are the 2 people that and say didn't like at the most anyway. and so i said, well, i couldn't think of anything that was a crime that they committed. he said, i think you're like so, so. okay, here's the lie. i know about george bush dick cheney, hayden and tenant all conspired to subvert the constitution of the united states. and here's how they did it with a program called stellar window. i went through the entire process of collection of data on us citizens and compiling it inside an essay and setting it out there for people analyze and look at. and the only thing this guy could do when i was doing it, because all these other agents were cleared for that program, he was ok, but they weren't. so when i was doing that, the only thing he could do is look at the flow. because i'm reporting a crime now when you do that the f b, i supposed to investigate that. they do that now because they're a part of the crime. and the reason is diane brought didn't get any anywhere,

was because nancy pelosi and, and, and ah, porter gosh, we're the, the hit chair and ranking members of the house intelligence committee at the time. and both of them agree to those programs as well as the cia programs in, in early november of 2001 long before she came in to report it to them. so they had already agreed and that's why nancy pelosi when she was a speaker, the house said that they, impeaching george bush is off the table. why? because she was already a part of the crimes. and george to say, okay, you're a part of the to you have to be in peach yourself. you know? so that's why she kept all impeachment upon possibilities off the floor of the senate, or the house is out. had new peach for it in then descended with high. so that's why she did that. you're watching the whistleblowers, we're going to take a short break and returned to our conversation with famed an essay whistleblower phil benny stay to. 2 2 2 2 2

ah, ah, we have this boom on tenderness from united states. we've exported it now to the world because the multi national corporations and we've been damaged to believe that babies need to be nurtured in care of who are in love. and so you've got a whole bunch of traumatized people all over the world with post traumatic stress disorder that don't know how to heal. some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities and other countries. the united states of america is different. wearable people long to be free, they will find a friend in the united states. ah,

with you about it all to anybody. phase the only city draw the look at the book. they incentives of each cigarette. a few color revel notions is one among several means to reach the goal of conquering foreign lands and bringing them onto the help of u. s. western economic interests. people in sadie, i don't that the, the, to everybody the demo lexia learning core. so no we, that's a little bit of our america the final goal of these thing revolutions is to ensure that there are no independent players in the world anymore. oh. 2 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry,

aka were speaking with former se technical director, bill binnie, about his experience blowing the whistle on waste fraud and abuse at the national security agency. bill, a part of the fallout from your revelations was that even though you had done nothing wrong, nothing illegal. all within the confines of the law and of normal and essay procedure, you were stripped of your security clearance. did you ever get it back? was there ever any admission of wrong doing on the part of an essay? well, i mean, as long as you're perpetuating a lie yet to stick with it. in other words, if they ever admit their line than that the whole house of cards falls and it falls in a major way. so they have to stick with the law. they started and they, they had to keep it going. but i'm, i'm here to say that all the basic governance says it's an outright lie. this was downloaded internally locally in the end and at the n c and all the stuff that they were accusing. others are doing is false. the predicate for going up to flynn and

stone was false, and that's why they would let me testify to it. so you know, it's just that i might, yeah, i really, unless we start wising up here and people start getting active to do things and fire these idiots get rid of them, send people and it will actually do something really with some respect for a constitution rights of individuals and humanity. if we don't have that, then you know, where do i been calling us the 1st of all, we've got a department of just us and we, the people are not part of it. and you know, we are of the largest most populous newest, banana republic in the world. and unfortunately, that's the way it is. look at what's coming out there, getting so so arrogant about it. there brazen about it because it's a, they're now have so much. how are they don't care what anybody thinks they're going to say, what can you do about, you know, but you can see that they're afraid of us because they trumped up this crap on,

on 6, january, and are using that to try to try to keep everybody under, under, i'm also also trying to get marshall lost on base. that's what they're doing. they allowed that to happen. so that they could do this. that's how you keep power and control over people. you don't want to have the, you don't want the people to realize that they had the real power that they want to do something about it. but 1st of all, they have to recognize it and say, gee, i got the power and i can do it. and, and get up and do something for god's sake. you are frequently in the news, talking about the technical side of elections and related issues. many of us have taken heat as you have for demanding to see evidence of election interference. for example, russia gate was arguably the biggest story of the last 10 years. and in the end, the mother report offered no proof that there was any russian interference in the 2016 election or again in 2020. are these accusations which seem to be constant now

just something we're going to have to live with, or is it possible to successfully demand evidence of accusations i for 1 am loathe to just take the c i a's or, and essays word for it. when they make accusations of election interference, what do you think are absolutely it's the f b i department, the drug enforcement administration. ah, and, and other agencies, the government like the home. oh, don't part of homeland security i r s has access to it. that's how they could go after the tea party, you know, because all they did. and then that's all i took, that is because of the 2 things. one, a report in august of 2013 after the snowden material came out, warriors got it, and said here. so here are the regulations for using an essay data 1st to arrest people. and then how, what you have to do to do a parallel construction. that is, construct the same material and substitute that material for the in a se date in the court of law, as you can introduce the. and if they did, it wasn't acquired with a warrant. you know?

so they falsify that and they, they perjure themselves in court to put people in jail. they're trying to cover it up with the all kinds of ways i, i haven't tried to take it into court in, for example, in the case against a flange or a flat and case against the raj, dawn and, and i had a petition with juliet, john elliot, she court going into the supreme court, which was rejected and they wouldn't want to testify in the either the stone or flint cases. so they had to keep me out because, you know, i was just pointing out the basic facts. you know, the evidence was clearly there that the august material that was posted was downloaded locally out of the d n. c database. and that was the friendships there was no, it wasn't a belief or anything that was just the basic forensics information and said, yeah, there it is. this is a bad fall allocation table format that downloads data to what to some drive cd roms, you know, little memory sticks off

a mainframe computer so they could try and keep us out of everything. so they don't want to hear from me. i have been trying to get into court with them, but i can't get there. finally, bill, i wanted to ask you a question that i get all the time. there are so many different communication apps out there, including whatsapp signal, viber proton mail telegram, and to denote a among others. many of us just assume that intelligence services around the world and even tech companies have backdoors into these communications. and that many of them are not really safe or any better than others. what's the best way to have a private conversation? actually, the best way is to do it in person with no electronic devices at hand. ah, i would say the other way that the postal mail, but even that can be they do a photograph of the outside of it for the addressing. and that gives them the to,

from like, like you do on a phone call or an email or anything else, the financial transactional that goes right into the, into the graph building, which is the relationship building of everybody in the planet. you know, all that goes into that for retro back up analysis or analysis at any time. you know, so it's a, it's a, it's a matter, nothing is safe. i mean, no matter what you do, you can't hide the address in because got it to have there. it's got to be there to be able to round it in the world. you know, so in order, if you can't, you don't have the address to a certain person or certain machine in the world. you can't send something to it. so you know that and that's how you build relationships over time. the thing about crypt and most of it is linear thought correcting, and it's not the it's not the, it's not safe in my view eligible. they need a muscular program, i think is one the snowdon compromised that dealt with gretchen and a compromising encryption with companies. and they, and the, and the government in

a say in spectacular. ah, so i just don't treat any of them safe. i don't bother encrypting anything because it even it, even if the encryption is successful, what they can do is they can penetrate through device, go in and download what you've decrypted. so that gives them the basic content of what you've been saying. ah, you know that, that, that, that's something that the, for example, they, they were doing it even to the companies that they were working with. like, for example, google and all of them when they, when they backed up their data after the fact they, they had a program to tap in and catch the back up, which meant they got everything they had. instead of just going in. the prism program was a charade. that was they, that was the program. they put out there for the judges to look at. so they didn't know any better and say, here were falling the lot. see, we asked for something that you gave us a warrant or no, and here we ask these companies like that's how we follow up. well, in the background, on the, on the fiber up ups, ups, upstream,

collected process. they were collecting everything going across the virus and when, when they backed it up, they copied everything that so, you know, they were telling the, and using it as a charade to show that they were via regular. there were fall off when they weren't . right. and they never told the judges this. in fact, that's part of the part of the programs. how you use an essay. did you never tell the judges you never tell the court, you never put an affidavit, you never do anything publicly that can be acquired, probably. and, and you don't even tell your own attorneys that are prosecuted, you just given the date and say, here's that, here's the, here's the evidence to convict. so you know that they're there and make a charade. and, and, and, and i would point out also that when a amnesty international versus clapper was, went to the supreme court, that was the case challenging some of this, ah, this, the solicitor general of the united states lied to the supreme court get case thrown out. he said, well, if anybody's been to anybody in a criminal case, there,

if any place was an essay, did him use against them in that court, they would be tall. i was a lot. no one has ever been. so you know, the hook, all thing is corrupt and those parts are corrupt. you're being lied to internally by the government itself. so this, i, you know, unless we start getting wising up and doing something, john, you know, this country is going down fast. you've been watching the whistleblowers. i'd like to thank our guest bill benny and thank you for joining us. i'm john kerry. aku join us again next week for another episode of the whistleblowers. ah ah ah, children at st. andrew's eventual school suffered nightmarish levels of abuse, torture and child rape. and yet the office of the attorney general suppressed

thousands of pages. the police have evidence that identified those perpetrators in the school. i was electrocuted twice. i was only 7 years or just too high for me. so for me to put me in the chair by the law warriors to run over here, abuse somebody and run her and she kept solution and wip himself. some of them are, myron really didn't make it jerking themselves to death over doses. but yeah, what it made me, it made me the person i am today because i'm afraid i don't give up with anything. investigations were too often handled differently because this cease was indigenous. so many of the worst criminals got away. the bishop's got away. the ones who done most of the damage never got charged

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let an arms race is often very dramatic, a development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk with ah, yes, its allies, they want to do everything in their power to preserve their privileged position in the world. russia is deputy ambassador to the united nations telling us he author

a friday security council meeting that of western powers. have an insatiable drive to maintain that global head. germonti. ukraine clamps down on freedom of the press as a new lauren power, the state to shut down news outlets which are deemed unacceptable. and india's flagship allied insisted will continue flights of a russian aerospace despite pressure from various western partners with.