away the bishops got away. the ones we've done, most of the damage never got charged ah mm hm. hello and welcome to wells, apart, as above so below this principle essential to many ancient belief systems and almost forgotten in this day and age postulates that social conflicts will inevitably find reflection in our individual souls and vice versa. our daily joys and struggles invariably shave the societies, believe in that in mind and at heart. what can truly make the world

a better place. to discuss that i am now joined by dash and unwise professor of psychology merits at the university of notre dumps and co author of restoring the kinship while your professor rice. it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for having me. now. as a psychologist, i'm sure you've been dealing primarily with the microcosm of a human soul, but i will even such precarious times that i want to start with the macro question . because social sciences claim that we know more than we ever knew about the nature of the human condition about what makes human human. and yet, if we look around this, we tend to be on the precipice of so many potential catastrophes from ecological to konami to you. well, some would going nuclear. why? how do you explain dive, how do you, why do you think that is? well, i think we've become a civilization, a global civilization that read,

relies on disconnection. and so that starts from early reason is the, you know, and we'll, that's all you need. and so then we have a whole system sets of systems that focus on analyzing that way. of being and missing that our whole heritage is about connectedness and connectedness to self connectedness to others, connected to the natural world. and when you're disconnected and have this kind of on looker perspective of, you know, subject versus objects, you're going to be destructive because you have no sense, no heart, no relational awareness of what you're doing well. now, i think all human society is across history have tried to find that balance, been dignity and connection. but when you know the individual and the connect, the collective between an individual soul and the whole. and i think many cultures

have different answers to that. even now, when you say when i, when you referred to modern societies, do you mean the entire universe or you know, all countries or cultures or do you mean somebody in particular? well i, i'm referring to the well civilization in general. what we call western civilization, which is sort of dominated the globe. and it's the, you know, from the enlightenment perspective of just the touching from responsibility relational responsibility. but our, our, we have, we still have societies that operate on our ancestral needs and relational connection orientation. so i study nomadic forgers, and they, we, we spent 99 percent of our history in this kind of society and only one small

percentage of the last one percent of our existence. have we gone in this very crazy direction? insane direction where we were not attending to the effects of our actions or, and then focusing on, on thinking the thinking mind and controlling. that's very counter to the way the dynamic living world works. now, you suggest in your book that this is primarily the function of the ego. that is, it is an ego centric world that tries to control everything. and i think of illusion narrowly. it makes sound because the world is insecure and the enlightenment civilization or the enlightenment era try to sort of extolled the you know, the beauty of consciousness or the development of consciousness. but i agree with

you totally done. so add the cost of inter relatedness and connection to something that is being carried them, the eagle or something that i think you called the pervasive life force. other people are referred to as god. we can describe it as the universe, but that sounds of you know, that there's something bigger than ego that actually exist. i mean, and manifest to solve in the world. why do you think the western civilization is so determined at doing away with that? because one thing i would point out is that in many cultures, be russian chinese, many asian culture, things in culture. you know, there's a huge respect for something like god and is seen as life sustaining. and yet it's in many of the western countries where they believe in something bigger than you is seen as almost infant tiles. yes, that's the thinking mind. n miguel chris talks about the the to has the,

the brain and the left hemisphere, which is what we've been emphasizing in the western civilization is unable. what if you look at damaged brains, or if you number one side of the brain or the other, you find that the left brain is this. it's what we see in our civilization dominant civilization today. it's the, the disconnectedness, the treating, the world like a set of objects that's all it knows how to do. and my work focuses on how we treat young babies. and when we treat them with disconnectedness, when we don't respond to their needs, we leave them to cry, we need them alone. we don't carry them around all day long, which is where they need to grow. well, because they're showing mature, they're like fetus is of other animals till about 18 months of age. and so they need, their needs met immediately to build a connectedness because their brains are so mature, only 25 percent of adult size or volume at birth typically. so when we miss, treat them, which i call under care,

we not provide the evolved nest our ancestral species, normal way of raising kids. you're not going to breathe breaking. you're stressing, you're traumatizing the child, you're breaking connection. they don't grow what's supposed to be growing. and then they have to build this big ego in order to protect themselves from all that pain and from the disregard, the disrespect that they experience. and so then you have all these adults who really are arrested development and they're more like toddlers or children because they never got their needs met. and they still are searching restlessly to meet those that gap in their heart that a gap in their spirit. ok. professor, can i argue with you here a little bit, because i think most school of thoughts recognize that it's impossible to become a fully functioning individual without being traumatized in some way or

shape. i mean, even in the most loving families, kids get traumatized things. i would argue that it's, you know, it's an indelible part of human condition. i know you believe that many western societies operate on the trauma inducing perspective. but isn't your argument also doing that in a way? because if you only focus on what have been done to you as a child, rather than what you can do to yourself or yourself as an adult, aren't you get, becoming essentially stuck in the trauma? well, right, so you need to work on healing yourself as much as possible, but there are sensitive periods for different aspects of brain development, the neuro biological development that pass. and if you haven't received the nurturing care at that time, you're going to not be as strong. and though you'll have depression, anxiety because the gaps of the brain because it's developing still. now if you,

it's a parent, things aren't built correctly. and so things start to fall apart under stress. so we need as adults, to learn how to heal ourselves in my book on neurobiology in the development of human rally, has the longest chapter about what to do if you didn't get your needs met as a young child, when all these things were being built or the reason i'm asking this question because before the war in ukraine, i used to interview a lot of americans and the american act to this. and they always tries the identity and trauma after especially many of the black activists. and it's not that i, i don't value or appreciate their suffering, but i'm absolutely convinced. then we all suffer in our own ways and there are no one from somebody else. this trauma, it's ultimately our responsibility before our feet and addresses in ways that we can do approach to it seems to be dealing with it through from a little you know,

very sure with analysis. but i wonder if you can offer and not only to the american, but to our global audience, if you give the gift to yourself without perhaps having a lot of money. right. let me point to about 6 years old is really a sensitive period and that nationally we provide the needs of the child. we don't traumatize in those years is really hard to heal. and all right, it is possible and there are many instances of people, really. it depends on what it is because your immune system is being established at the time your, the way you are, neurotransmitters work are being established really hard to change those kinds of things. very physiological, monday. so you can do some of the healing. it's those early peer ecologists in the united states comes from a, came from a soviet background, your bronson brenner,

any noted how in the united states, children have all these random kinds of experiences growing up. whereas in russia, where he grew up, people love their children, they, they were so kind and then even the community would always be responsive to the children in the united states were it's, you know, they're a pain in the neck. young, shut them away, don't minimize their needs. so we have this to be exported it now to the world because a multinational corporations and we've then damaged the belief that babies need to be nurtured and care for and loved. and so you've got a whole bunch of traumatized people all over the world with post traumatic lot of heal. now the way to heal is to build that connect adult need to learn to listen, to see, to on, and actually share our hearts and learn how to do that and be, and spend time together in loving ways as an adult blame. you

know, the way, i think that's now what we want. we want the healed, the aware there are generational multiple generations of trauma. the europeans, if they were, you know, they brought it in, they and they, they spread it all the go back to understanding how you build a human being properly, how young going way of relating to others. that's respectful that and not treat people like objects. i hope we can discuss more of that after a few moments station. ah ah ah, because they already, because they got the school for a great of inland to the usual

superiority finish style. for years of caribbean ss, occupation, 14 concentration camps. 30 full prisoner of war, labor camps. 10 prisons, gold level. she's the media finished on the scene in when needed in the chest. it maybe to get all that good elephants been listening? it was gonna city approximately 25000 people went through the occupant to go of finished camps according to official figures. his most stuck w like water. if the ship did, he toyed in legged yet not yet a stove. so again, crocus tremulous here would famine disease, forced labor torture by the warden super mutual was given up on the water that also need you know, i thought so deep you got the considerable volume it off with me is 9 pushing the things up a give him a do duty, but he doesn't go those calls with thousands of testimonies of crimes in the impunity of criminals war and even got hell, you know, wanted to thank you to speed maryan the get out to limit it because i lose you got

to live with the senior, just because i it belong the me i welcome back to worlds of parts adoption or vice professor psychology maritza at the university of milton call, or of restoring the can ship worldview. now our purpose and their vice before the break, you were talking about, you know, the need, you respect the child, you know, turning it into called, you know, understanding responsibility for, for your help. and was one of the things that but i think whenever i am in the united states, i sometimes build a trauma is not only

a sort of supported there because of the way of life. i'm there in the perfect society. i would not idolize russia in this regard as well, because i think in this country, the collective factor has been historically stressed at the expense of the individual cell. but having said that, i opened get an impression that in western societies, trauma is being capitalized on. it's sort of being used as a means of production as, as a means of making money, you know, using people's trauma, hijacked substances and perpetuating this cycle. more and more. can you talk about that, you know, purposeful, purposeful creation of neurosis as a means all 5, you know, the painting trauma versus, you know, i'll send to grief and become a face to face. yes. so it's a common pattern, isn't this enlightenment fueled way of looking arise things and then label them and

then control them, right? and so it's feels and it is a, it's a problem because once you have a label, then you feel like you have to be that way and you can't get out of it. when you apply tables to young children, they often enter a reputation track and they can't escape. and so they can't really be themselves when they have a label. so, we treat each person as a unique into the category and honors that unfolding. the beauty of that individual work. now there is a lot of talk and technological circles about the problem of narcissism and it's cold. and in and of itself is a direct consequence of the enlightenment, won't you? because once you sort of only recognize the material world and nothing else, isn't that something that was lost, her seeing everything al functional means to to go for film and my,

i get the exclusion of, you know, the degree universe simply because, you know, there are certain things in this live that cannot be measured and i think the promise of the enlightenment will be, is that if it's not, yes, i agree with you. it isn't an artist nurse only knows itself in the left hemisphere is only wired to know itself and can't relate to the world as with the re hemisphere is able to do and things are more complicated than that. but it's a representation of how we've shifted into one little tiny bit of humanity and then decided that's all there is fear is able to connect to the university and all. and we, when we undermine early childhood development, we are undermining those capacities because that's one of the right hemisphere grows more rations. the eager in doing that is because it's ultimately insecure. and this is, i think what you call the dominance mindset in your book,

the kingship, world, you suggest that, you know, there are certain ways that mo, dominance, and then there are other ways to promote wellness. and as a student of archetype will psychology, i'm very tempted to frame it as the king or the wounded mindset. can you elaborate on that? why there have, i can wife and she'll, we know, lose with nothing in between. who not have that binary view of the world? it consciousness that does that right? it's sorts things into one or the other either or whereas life is a dynamic flow. it's a rocky in some time, most of the time you don't want it in a gala. terry, and that's how it's called. and so the jenny of the civilization or ego consciousness is unable to move off of those binary alexa by mia, the clear clinical condition not only in the western side is but beside this as well that is characterized by sort of the,

the difficulty in distinguishing between body with sensations and feelings. i think in your book you offer many ways on, on how to sort of bring that apparatus back into human. yes. so in early life with a relating to them so that they actually are build along with the others and, and understand their feelings. they weren't from their experiences. what they become as adults were going to have to do a lot of sick of those capacities. and that again, is the face to face ring to recognize self. you know, you have to build, you have spirit, your intuitions, and you have to build those up again, and then learn to get along with others. i use folks on games in my classes so that children, the students learn how to, you know, be with one another for build a sense of social joy and capacity to get a lot about how they're connected to the universe. you also mentioned being one on

one with nature and i personally found this an amazing way of doing that kind of like a therapist because in russia we have a different kind of nursing of our ancestors. you know, our grand mother is grandfather spoke out, you know, feeding him, you know, taking care of him. and that's also form of massive because you're, you're essentially treating a kid as, as an object of the living human being. and that's the process. many of the emotions and going to have time for emotional exchanges. but one thing that i found is just being one on one with nature and allowing nature to hear you. because, and this is one of the other things that you mentioned in your book, the universe, the nation is called purchase. it wants you to be, you know, enjoying this life. and it will help you if you allow that to happen. wonderful to be able to go out into a semi wilder wild nature and just sit there and listen to the trees and learn to build and the comfort that the earth gives. you just lie on the earth level,

you stress levels go down, right? and there are many ways to connect to nature. we've done some research on that as well. so yes, i think that everyone can do something like, even in a city, pay attention to the clouds, the sun, the dandelion or the the grass in the pavement. and you can connect, now you've written a lot about the so called embodied morality. and i think this is a challenging concept for many people on to understand because we usually associate morality. if it's something natural, something that people, you know, declare from a pulpit, something that they preach without necessarily practicing it. what are some of the ways of cultivating, embodied morality in yes, and that's what i focus on in multiple books about how the early life experience, again, is the baby feeling the odyssey of the parents and then developing their own empathy. they're learning they're, they're shaping their body to be socially attuned to others. and so as, as adults,

too, we can learn again to be in our bodies right now. be present. now, wherever you are and connected. now, are you being respectful to those you're with and that means you know, to appreciate the water that you're giving you. so many gifts, the sun as a gift, right? the sunshine. so present. i'm myself an avid and very humble student of carl young. and he wrote a lot about how imposed by society and i think you would even question your prime is the has so much way that i think, and he's view that we receive his children are important, but they mentally because in his view, again, we know the sort of forward looking function within us, within the universe that he'll and that constantly pushes us externally and internally. it's very daunting. and at the same time, a very and probably the promise of that argument is that you will have,

regardless of what happened to you. you recover what is underneath the trauma out. is there something underneath the trauma di, below it? well, in our living and civilization, that is trauma inducing. we forgot the wellness pathway is a multiple kind of layered system as human beings. and i think we, we just forgot that we didn't mind wellness. and so i think our go back into thinking mind right and saying, oh well, you can do whatever it is to heal yourself and it's all in your head feel here. and perhaps even down below. yeah, yes though, we're the brain, the brain to but the part especially the heart has all sorts of thing influences on how we think. right and access now and the ways that our ancestors res show made it all fit into the be earth and the member of the earth community. i began with that

gnostic, i afraid that as a box. so below, you know, the individual work also helps the society, but i wonder if i ever reached out a golden age where most people on, on this one they're being shaped into but who they're truly intrinsic or do you think your time will run out before we can actually get yes, that's a challenging question because the that's going on is, is quite distressing. hothouse earth. but i am an optimist. ah, it'll is for humanity. and i think that sometimes our idea is like a virus and then everybody changes. right. and we are just little changes around the edge can shift the whole thing. so that's what i pray for. i hope for that we can all return to being the everyone around the planet. and, and i want to trust your books very easy to do ways. i mean, it does not guarantee healing, that's what, that's what you would ask for guarantees,

but there are certain ways that each one of us can do to feel a little bit yourself on the when the world. so thank you very much both. you're welcome. thank you and thank you for watching hold the steering. ah we.