ah, ah, trade will never be a victory for russia. wait, we shall see what you're waiting materially done by. she looked at a meal. crane more is a proxy war. this is a war between russia and the united states. mazama. americans to not should kick in carbon dioxide, america for sure, and you're not in your gage in conflict with russian forges. american forces are harris, defend nato allies that been shipped nato escalades even more than the special military operations become a war. don't when you but they'll set of rules that dealership and that'll that doesn't is my story. i see it. i see your to us thinking costliest. got out of here with so you sleep. he shenika you stuff to with almost

them lets you in the midst of only this to finish the renew sewage nurse eager for girl who's ah, [000:00:00;00] with i'm african residency and welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from dubai in the u. e. it may be the beginning of april, but today we're wondering of australia recently announced a good deal with the usa and u. k. to spend billions on nuclear submarines to fight a war with its biggest trading partner. china was an early april fool. china says australia is walking further down the path of danger. so how did it come to this? how could it ever benefit australia to fire missiles,

the closest business partner in the 20th time, while amid spiraling property at home, subsidizing us arms, companies already profiting from the war on russia through ukraine, kind of be stopped? joining me from cambra talk. all this is about to attorney kevin, senior foreign policy advisor and australian diplomat for decades. thank you so much about it for coming on. i think we have a few sound issues. don't know whether that's because a pine gap. i'll get to that in a moment, but just in the past few days, the national center of a social and economic modeling in australia that 1000000 in just new south wales are in poverty, 100000 more than 2016. and that's on top of other reports. why would australia threaten its biggest trading partner? china with nuclear submarines rushing. thank you for inviting me under the program . very good being here to answer your question. australian. some always relied on great and powerful friends to great and powerful white friends in particular, britain and the united states. we began as

a painter calling the britain 240 years ago. shortly after america declared independence. wise had great difficulty in not believing in the regularity in the honor of a powerful friend. and increasingly since 9945 will not change. so i think that's the background i should you question. we've been struggling if you like to find a home, any specific reason of the last 40 or 50 years. but somehow random sharon call of washington and london schooling is back and unfortunately with our residents are ministers, a decent man. i don't think he's a line figure that is a limited vision of the world, and he automatically wants to think, well, of a french. i mean, obviously, scott morris would say,

is not malign as robert navy. we shouldn't even perhaps focus on him because it's bipartisan is, is often emphasize in washington as a on small stations in connecticut. they're celebrating the amount of investment from australia, defacto in their military, industrial complex and arguably at the expense of the australian taxpayer. why is it so bipartisan? i mean, they must understand that the united states trade comprises less than 5 percent, 39 percent. and the chinese trade is more than 25 percent. well, australian sentimental about allies. they're sentimental about big, big, 96 carrying the british or the american flag, i like uniforms, uniforms of our friends, some australia we say, well,

much just right. it was just trying to really naive that part of it. now leery of china, you know, old. nursery, if you like, but he's coming to play with the man to and unfortunately we've gone down the wrong path. we allowed american advisors to become very prominent in out of industry. we got quite a number of american admirals on almost homeless to come in to their influences. i should've been widespread. i managed to persuade morrison to destroy what was a reasonably good deal with the french for the fury of a president not wrong. i replaced it by very bad deal with america album, a z. when he came into office, held onto the advisors who had advised laura on this matter. he didn't get rid of

him, he should have and now she's coming home to roost. very surprisingly, there, there isn't maxwell against this now. it was done by a prime minister, but also by an extremely bright and capable editor of an independent online journal closing. i would say she's john energy secretary agronomist. i had wanted to john and he has a carriage or my single handedly a very lively critical device. on this decision, the government tried to basically to complete jumping the axiomatic in to clarity guys. but now this is happening just in recent days. it is a stain on the foreign minister gammons weighing in a, in a very effective way flashing out

a criticisms for booking said the worst international decision by an australian government. and billy has tried to interest introduce conscription because a strategy was supported the invasion of vietnam by the united states on mainstream media. so mainstream media in australia, key thing is referred to in the morning as a chinese spy, is that the state of debate in australia, but it doesn't matter of in an easier malaysia, your neighbors are against it. keating is basically some sort of chinese front. that's how i really being discussed in your country. it is pretty childish and pretty personal. i things like that. all they say the p a which is completely the nation, us americans jobs. but i mean, gary evidence question to pretty important. why is when he said, well, what we are doing is surrendering our sovereignty and surrendering our capacity to

texas issues. and i was trying to interest in a reversible way of discuss ahead was simply going to be fact in america. i think myself now go, we're simply going to be sucked in a nice american c a. s. necessary? it's extremely right. well, australia is a kind of new ukraine. yes. yeah, gullible and swayed by the release that america will stand by the parallels a pretty pretty scary actually in fan is brittany always says that 8 as an independent nuclear deterrent, despite criticism that it's as a technology controlled by washington. what about the non proliferation treaty? i mean, you can state to britain in the united states, applying weapons grades, enriched uranium to a non nuclear australia. does that mean?

i don't know. china, russia can supply weapons, grade enrich, uranium to iran. what sort of precedent? it's very bad president. obviously, there's also the issue with the nuclear waste from a subway, any plans on how to dispose of the nuclear waste. no classical, she'll be right. i will find a way to muddle through. we have a, we have a history of a central trying to let him know. so it's a convenient place, a and we don't see the lunch, not history interested. there is also that history of a coup effectively in your country in the 19 seventy's, when you did have a leader who opposed u. s. foreign policy,

and i wanted to naturalize minds and thought about removing the military bases. the united states military base is ants. and gov whitland, one said world war 3 could begin in australia. norm would know it at the moment, there is no real opposition to all those u. s. bass with northwest k pine gap, nor anger. just a few of them, the cia base, their bambi supplied from guam no real talk about is in the australian media this control of australia by the united states. not really we, we've taken refuge in the midst of a quote, joined facilities and we have a say in their command and control it's not true. we don't. and in fact, it was the story the night before. we're going to remove literally he had announced his colleagues and decision to ask america to close down the ship station here our springs which played

a key role in tranquilizing and controlling the american medical satellite size in the sky. which livers involved in the targeting of nuclear michelle against russia and local 3 in japan, always been extremely important. there continues to be gotten worse than that. we actually have permanent rotational di seem rather a william permanent rotational. there are always american visa is sitting in the field in northern australia. now whether the nuclear we got no, we can assume that there are and then it will be around there or something like 2000 to make moraine permanently. so it's a bit like the bowling drug strategy, labor prime minister, step by step australians become part of the american war,

making the same in asia. and this has nothing to remotely to do it simply about australia becoming completely locked in to the american attempt to contain china village generally, a swiss rent additional resource naturally good. well, i think, i mean, anything that actually america useful, but more importantly, we know that we are in the position of an expandable promise by allowing and australian citizen and former american citizen and pilots in the american. a flush with 20 is to be well, that is quite life in countries while cities, wife and children, 6 children tucked into a maximum security prison in a 2 by 4, made

a still waiting extradition to america. this is another another case from emerald. daniel doug. loose, who isn't to me as well? then, of course, as to san slash, a freshman, he left his american citizenship and relied on the protection of australian citizens. it depends on himself 20 years later on this nightmares are obviously not as famous. a case is julian assange, why do you think the australian government and authorities and secret services and perhaps the cia control is behind it? on detecting you, you are seeing the diplomat. you were advising on foreign policy in previous decades. crucially, and ambassador to poland, back then during the cold war, if you find yourself an attack or is it by a mission, do they just not invite you on television programs to try and keep what you say

from the australian public? it has certainly been an attempt to, to make me and on this and to publicly challenge my voice in australia. it's a long time since i've worked. there are retired in 1998 so that some 25 years ago. but no other the math that you worked with, share your views and the current ambassadors of diplomatic. i mean maybe you're not in touch with them. they don't share your worry for the future of australia or if it continues to tie itself to washington. a declining power is considered by many unless even within the united states, quite a few to share my concerns, but i tend to compartmentalize, i tend to be a big picture man. most of my colleagues tend to think of america. reservation comes in the case. that's the wrong thing. i. i see it a passionate imperial hinge money behavior. and i've also committed the guy with

the other side of commer, good question that russia, which was my country of 1st posting, is basically a nation, the country, an admirable country in many ways that it is one of the most effective leaders in the world. the other one is j, so i'm probably why the on the pile. but there are, there are a great many colleagues, colleagues, new ones with citrix will, will share my views. yes. well, if australia camera continues to, to, to fully support anthony blink and the so called the former clinton of over a bomb or advisors advising him on foreign policy, what will happen to countries like indonesia, malaysia, you will regional countries that all seem to be turning as you just said to the idea that a new century is born in china, russia,

these are major powers of this century. amidst the declining economic and geopolitically failing united states of america, well, the countries of the region put their sites in the, the only international that we have, which is the one that was negotiated after world war 2, the united nations and security council based international that they they, my russia in china steadfast, she standing by that you and they still, despite incidentally the manifest the ration of so many you, a nation changed by the united states. i mean, organizations like the organization for the prevention of chemical and become worthless. so many agencies have become corrupted by american power, american bribery, american threats to her to us. you know, but if you go back to lou central going of the united nations and she's really the

russians she shine, is continue to speak resolutely to her to the bank of america. on the other hand is the writing stage that he's trying to councils, radicals and roach, not asian countries. sticklers for good order and good radical. and they can see this 2nd african countries, reagan countries, pull the nation australia doesn't follow us or an address fugly enough to be able to say it. yeah, we will have to thank you. and that's for the show. and remember, going underground is we're guessing twice a week every saturday and monday. so stay tuned. meanwhile, you can keep in touch wireless social media if it's not sensitive in your country and had to channel going underground tv and rumbled on, come to watch new and old episodes off going underground. ah,

the ah . very chavez. canada hasn't been very good to indigenous women and girls who have been missing or found murdered because of the structural racism history. the claudia history that canada has worked indigenous people and communities.

and it's a shameful history and a history that canada doesn't like to talk about not