ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things considered on peter labelle. liberal in liberalism was again on display this past week with biting 2nd democracy summit. the problem is most of the world doesn't divide countries into democracy's autocracies. in fact, much of the world views western democracy as an expression of ideological gemini, ah,

discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator. and here in moscow we have to meet pre bob it. she is a political analyst and editor at in us me internet media project by telling process rules and effect. that means it can jump anytime you want. and i would appreciate it. sarah with martin here, a mom we had that done by the administration. i guess a 2nd annual or a buy a new one. i'm not sure because he talks about democracy a lot. as the a former president of the united states in front runner and the opposition party is indicted. so, i mean, democracy message for the world, but not much democracy at home here. i mean, this is beyond farcical and most of the world sees it. and if you look at the final communique, the number of exceptions to countries that why would we like this agreement, but not this paragraph and not this paragraph here. i mean, absolutely farcical,

but this is how they see the world. they see the world as a, a binary on democracy versus a talker. see, and of course you don't agree with democracy than you're an auto crowd. i mean, it is a such a manichean view of the world. go ahead, mark. yeah, it's a been per reservation which even when you go back in the day when america had some source of credibility on the world stage as the one the dishes out, the moral tutelage on a grand scale. i'm talking the post warriors perhaps, you know, even in those days, you know, the, the grounds for america taken that role are always very adult. she was always quite, always large credibility. i know today, i think biden is really used the word farcical. i think the stuff, so that's a good word. i think that's really where we are with this. always biden, with somebody find on a lot about human rights when he was leading up to his own elections. president,

you know, when trump's in office jumped on the matter in saudi arabia as a huge issue that he constantly said that he would pursue if it was in government, you know, in line with a washington post which took it on board. turns out that was just to let him know, since that was just a way of getting trump number go into office. you know, didn't really care too much about these things. but now he's presenting this sort of farcical international circus. you know, by to zoom. i mean, can we take it, you know, on the anniversary of the 20 years of the rec war, you know, self awareness? absolutely. well, no, totally, tone desk, you know, completely already free zone here. you know, we, we invite iraq and we tell iraq that they need to prove the human rights. you know, because it's just one of these countries on the blacklist because there is a blacklist i've got a different this that iraq is on the one, you know,

the has no democracy. that's hilarious. and why do you, how many drug democracy, mr. mr. black and you know, it isn't learning free zone and it is a policy code. but you know, the world can't really take this very seriously. given the timing of it, given that we don't associate binds and with somebody who really believes in human rights or is able to even pull this off, you know, just talk to the rest of the world about human rights. nobody really cares about human rights ally. it's has been for very long time, and biden isn't doing a very good job by saying of using it as some sort of some political tool to get countries to align themselves more with his ideas of the role they should be playing in this. what you call a binary, well, in a world black and white of autocrats and democracy and you know, you know, what, you know, mean democracy is very overrated. and you know, if you're going to, if you're going to stand on the parapet and talk about democracy, you've got to, you've got to lead by example. you know, for america isn't for very long times,

you know, and look at the long list of interventions. 2030 is in my career as a journalist, you know, the millions of lives lost because of complete. because there is this rules at american house, which is we believe in these principles, these, these ideas of democracy. but the one rule we must install around the world is every now and again, we an only, we are allowed to throw that rule book out of the window one day one week. but we invade a country where we have a dictator somewhere we don't like. and then you are all supposed to take a suit, you forget that happened we carry on is normal. you know, another anniversary with this or could conference full zone is, is the fascination of patrick. remember, in a, you know, this was a guy that the americans didn't like because he was clever. he was educated, he didn't fall into line with you as a gemini. this is the late fifty's darwin's. i was, it became independent. you know, we've just discovered in the last few years,

if it was the british with this guy was a british, and my 6 an agent in congestion at the time, you know, and all these issues, you know, we can't really think, given the perspective when we look at america, taking this position and, and positioning yourself as this leader of democracy and the one who decides what is democracy and what is not about chris if you know, if you think of the, the countries that did attend this article event, diem, if i can turn to you now, you know, it doesn't mean that they don't have good relations with russia and china, which of course, this is what this whole shirad is all about. it's creating a block, a, a block against russia and china, and other countries to around. we can throw in there, but you know, most of the world doesn't buy into it. i'm glad martin mentioned it's all through zoom. so i mean, it's not taken very serious whatsoever. and again, like i mentioned, there are so many exceptions here. but if it's an exercise and trying to isolate

russia and china also pulls aaron because neither isolated demon well that i will mention will all be conscious. that in fact, did not support you or you know, and of course the china china wasn't invited to the wasn't, i didn't get a, i mean, who are specifically didn't hold for, for the part of the resolution that condemns rush. so this is not the main, the main program is very easy idea or this conference. i mean remember that sophie is against her just by these appointments. all can some water and soccer. this is more so sober. this is a kept the same of what we see here. we stand for human rights of women's rights.

you all. that means you're engaged with those rights, which is a bull nose and water congress which are brought in by the respect women from it's respect human rights. and that the way i hear that all the, the conscious that i think offices should be respected is also very to be don't respect on the gutters, which somehow did not get the right. and the, you know, that the very language which these people use, like on the, on the in the spirit or respect when charter. ok, we pro the child out of the window when we take the rock. leave bob, you know, we don't forget for a minute about when our speaking, you know, there is a panel, there is a panel on democracy or woman and there is what you know and then to speak to

that she create huge ball or chest your behavior by your ship or do you agree to create that a global brett? not just to speak of it and speaking all the other panel co. drea miss you will go with g. and did you know other than us said go one security on it sounds like you're working together with a real haynes, we'd better just you sound want to use digital digital data. there were there but again told though, so they gave you more soccer just kept, you know, you have these people ga wants to control before and so so, so financial for it's political and joe's digital or that is knology. when these people get over the national security agency,

and i was one of the strong people in the america in, in, in spain. this is the bond c o g for democracy. this is called a bullet. can you imagine, you know, this? keep, well, when it gets down to go back to martin here, it's just another device to try to maintain her gemini, this is what it is. i mean, it could be, it can be the environment, it can be trans, right? it can be all anything you want it to be. i mean, this is a mechanism to draw lines to separate them to isolate ok. it is the most anti inclusive of thought process. and i can even imagine martin. yeah, it is a device that's exactly the correct word i would say to. and the question is, is it being used effectively? you know, to the benefit of those countries in long term benefit for them socially, economically, politically, or is it just only for america to gain leverage?

i think if you look at the perspectives, you take the step back, i think also linked to america's ability to actually intervene military themselves in countries around the world. the last time this happened, me going to go back to gulf war right. second, go for george w bush. since then, america just hasn't had the courage to intervene anyway. it just doesn't have the courage and it's done. political dynamics isn't the courage with his own ministry to, to go ahead and with. so there is a new there was that there was a new set up and washington, whereby there were the biden has to actually use other tools is disposal to, to bash this drum of gemini and keep these countries on board and cause you losing, obviously, losing this is a, is a losing strategy. human rights as a subject for the last 3040 years was always a tool. i think it was the best. the best way to describe it is a commodity. it was a commodity, it, it was trained, it, nobody actually ever really believes in it. and it's really,

really apparent now with the you and with washington will be seeing what's going on in africa. most of these countries in this region, in this part, why i'm in north africa who democratically including ascending huge streams of middle bus emigres who are leaving these countries. the confessor, molly, chuck, central africa, public in the rules streaming into libya. and it's interesting all of the weeks, italy has been really cooling the life of the she's against the opinion is next and making all kinds of threats about these immigration throws flows without any sense of history for but human rights was always the in the people of vietnam, the white house, the boarded that corrupt up in governments of southern vietnam. in 1965 americans

began their invasion following the aim to defeat the forces of vietnamese patriots . the pentagon was confident that the victory would be on the american side due to its military superiority. however, the vietnamese turned this war into a total hell for the occupants. unable to cope with guerrillas, the american army started blanket bombing alongside using chemical weapons and napalm which burnt all alive. the village of my lay wearing 1969 american soldiers killed 504 civilians, including 210 children, became a tragic symbol of this war. all in all, during the whole period of this conflict, the usa dropped on vietnam more than $6000000.00 tons of bombs, which is 2 and a half times as much as on germany during the 2nd world war. in 973, the american army under the pressure of the rebels,

withdrew from vietnam. and only 2 years later did the puppet regime in saigon fall . however, the vietnamese paid a high price for their freedom. more than 1000000 vietnamese people became the victims of american aggressors. ah, ah ah, welcome back to cross talk. were all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah,

hi is go back in here in moscow. you know, the, again, this whole mentor of dividing the world in democracy in a toxic. again, i mean, even the cold war is more sophisticated than this. ok? because it's just one size fits all. come in during the cold war, it was a competition of different ideological systems. ok. at least there was a recognition that there was 2 things in play here. ok. and, and they would be to be systems appeal to the hearts and minds of countries in the world. this is different, it is more simplistic, it's very sophomore. a one size fits all. our size is the correct size. we ended appropriate to how humanity will move forward. and if you don't fit into our one size fits all, i'm thinking of nato members like turkey and in hungry. and then then you are not only not in the church as it where you're outside to be and to be considered. i

what is it they call hungry, any liberal, liberal democracy and you know, it's, well, it's just a reminder so that, you know, some of our panel spoke about people oriented justice and so people oriented. busy democracy, remember how the soviet union all the conscious that it's controlled in eastern europe, people's morris, and even in the ground, and even the in the central part of the signing up, sir, some people said it was you oversee, these are all the people. so how can be double people's power that works with terry and society? so when you have people who basically leave by them, or you have these to have the situation and i will go even further and the whole,

i mean look, are the majority was that we had to thank you. thank you one, but for in the name of the war in syria was for many of the name of the war and leave it the war in iraq. come on, you know, during the 16th century, during the war between catholics and protestants. people for 40, for the right way to handle what is the right way to behave get to paradise, and now people do with job over the program. how can we do the best way would be, is the sort of paper in, in a valid works, a part and these are the actions, and they're always disappointed and steal it is war keenan, people, or, you know, these no wars in the naval morris. i'm, it is, it's such a good point because martin and it is a very different discursive element in play here. i would wager,

at least on this program right now, is in there's kind of an anglo saxon, our view of democracy is being some kind of something that is sacred. ok. but most of the world, it's a procedure. ok. and what the, what the, what the anglo world likes to do is to turn it into a secret process. that is not, you know, because you said just very quickly and we could probably make a whole program out of, you know, democracy is overrated. and i like that, why do i say that? i like it when it works when it's allowed to work. ok, but it's not allowed to work then. i mean, why should we pay homage to it? like they do in this washington conference here. they pay homage to something that they do not even believe themselves because the end goal always is a gemini, it's not people's will mark as soon as biden is trying to keep this. i do have an exclusive club life and you have

a long list of members. you give them different rankings and different levels of encouragement to become closer close to the top table. and, you know, maybe a lot of countries will buy into that. i mean, certainly there's a good number that will, but i think so interesting to know the countries that won't in the countries are standing up to this and saying no, this, this model is outdated. i mean, you know, to makes you so can catholics and protestants. i'm going to go say, i'm a britain, which we're looking at trying to move the under. but, you know, when you look at the puritanism, i think is what you're talking about. the anglo saxon model. this started in 1819 africa. this started with british mercenaries, mercenaries you cannot edit out british missionaries going into the dial. some people do do confuse the terms in showing lights into the darkest part of the concrete continent. and this idea is still very much alive today in the by and come by think he's a conservative. he looked backwards. he looked back at the angle section. but,

you know, the anglo saxon period written america ruling the world with this, with the small tutelage, you know, resulted in people like lumber. and as i am being assassinated, quite brucely because the k cable between the american and sort of the chief american one and the british one to justify it was my boot, maybe an s or b, but he's our s o b, you know, and i think that summed it up perfectly, you know, the, the, this anglo saxon elitist, hi, polluted puritanism. you know, it's outdated, it's gone, is past, you know, will, will living. i mean, it, you know, it doesn't work. see, i mean that, you know, that's what's most important here. i mean, you can have ideas, but if they don't work and they don't work in the way that you claim that they'll work, then they're obsolete and they're in excuse. and that's what i want to keep. there is an excuse you emerge. and one of the interesting things is you, you look at that, the, the, the very esteemed people that were involved in this is really it amazing that they

would take the time to talk about these kinds of things when the world is essentially on fire. but this is all an excuse to intervene in the sovereignty of other countries. this is what it's all about. i mean they, they've been able to make a drive, a huge wedge between democracy and sovereignty. and that's intentional. ok, because russia, as i don't know, obviously a deficiency, it's sovereignty, it should not be recognized. ok, china, all these other, it's a gemini and democracy as opposed to sovereignty. and this is, this is all intentional on their part demon. and you're absolutely right. and i y a, you know, when i spoke to this conference, i mean, she used the religious language, keep the porch. bernie are the more cautious i'm getting stronger talkers.

i get weaker. that sounds like a re, i'm sorry, and the same. i'm the same time like country is good faith or in the majority, you know confusing, but are becoming a minority or they, they will not with these wants. of course. now it was minorities or something, you know, but you're absolutely right. i mean, the real, the real you vision and the all right is between the last and the global. so, and that was said, no during this conference everyone will she be critical in this conference? well then the same time there were several events taking place in which america ration and people that talked about absolutely different things. and they raised all the issues and the, and they said that the real gap is between the last, which does not want to start the salt, which does not want to seats programs. i mean, even with the edge, if you are sanctions against all the walk in you,

how does the west gate they say, oh, you must impose those sanctions just like we did. but, you know, the south doesn't have the resources, you know, there the west has huge money savings and even even, even with the savings for the european union, a countries are suffering awards for the sense that the ball was going to russia. europe is becoming industrialized. and much of the global south still wage to be a exactly game and that, that's exactly my martin, me again, i'm glad the mom brought this up because this whole sanction regime is another means to impede the development of the global south, the global south sea. you know, they did, they do look to historically, to the north, north, north flash west. and they say 2 things. they like, you guys have a lot of prosperity and

a lot of safety. we're on board for that. that's the gender. we want your democracy stuff. ok. fine, we'll do a zoom calls from them, but we want security. we want prosperity and this is being impeded again by the west. mar. yeah, but the deal is you have to fall on your knees and literally ankles of uncle sam. and you know, and if you don't do that, then politics kicks in and you become ostracized, you become identified as the problem. why is hungry and turkey know what? why would they annoy? i'm going to look, it was not invited to the conference. these both of those leaders, recalcitrant, rebellious individuals who don't ask how high when america says german, you know, and they have both of those countries. edwin open are facing presidential elections and that is very much a trick if you like, a ruse by biden to not give them political support a to pose. so it's very political and very hypocrite. cool,

and i don't know how much mileage that model has. i mean, if you look at that, we go back to, it's interesting, we haven't talked about ukraine, the shirts, just great. let's leave you claim to one side because we don't need to bring in the ukraine. we need to really to completely blast this entire circus of water is when we talk about human voice is talk about israel. israel was invited to this conference. israel is the greatest perpetrates of human rights on the planet. how, how is israel? how can we actually give any credence, whatsoever to this, to this ridiculous farcical, the same thing, the blindness put together when every single day palestinians are treated like animals, they have been de humanize. they don't, no longer humans. now a 1000 homes was stolen last year by israel in palestine as we just kitchen the street. everybody knows the long objective of the israel government, which is to basically rid the country of palestinians. that's the idea that they

was honest indians compared to the divine administration was upset with their judicial reform, but overlook everything. again, that's absolutely studying. this is when you'll speak, you know, and so, so when, when we go with the, you know, do we accept the, have to be exceptions to this, this elitist anglo saxon puritanism kind of club, which is sort of based on $890.00, more, you know, or do we say no, you know you're going to lead by example and somebody is going to put their foot down and, and do something about israel and you know, this, this is going to stop so. so i think, i think this is this, not the bind does not really put a lot of thought into this. i don't think this is going to go very far. i think the danger of these, these, this, the zoom cool things, these organizing is that they're actually going to be

a rod for back in the longer term than how much longer the world is. the most of the world is not interested in the so called western values, and importantly gentlemen, they're not, they don't fear the west. like these do. i will run out of time. i want to thank my guessing marrakech and here in mosque. i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time remember ah ah, ah, ah, ah ah ah, ah

ah, who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions. today russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. a list of course senior. does he speak on the bill in your senior? mostly mine, or wish you were banding all imports of russian oil and gas new g i . g, with regard to joe biden, imposing the sanctions on russia, has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang self

with don't welcome to worlds apart. whenever the russian discuss their historical or contemporary relations with turkey, the suggestion of keeping your friends close and your enemies have been closer, almost invariably makes its way into the discussion. moscow and anchor, i haven't been quite sophisticated in managing both that ribbons, so some damage. how interests database approach make their world if not the.