deals of the saudis, so you know, talking 70 plus years of united states really telling decided what to do and all of a sudden it seems that the opec is now operating much more honestly. and you thanks for joining us here on our t international. plenty more on the latest updates we found on our website r t dot com. thank you for choosing audience in ah ah, ah, with a

a ah, blowing the whistle on waste fraud, abuse illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety frequently carries with at the risk of personal danger. whistleblowers are subject to retaliation. they lose their jobs and sometimes their friends and colleagues walk away from them. in some cases though, the whistleblowers life is in danger from the very people against whom that whistleblower has reported to the will tell you about one whistle blower whose life is literally in danger. because of her brave revelations, i'm john kerry. aku welcome to the whistle blowers ah.

2 2 2 2 patricia michel, a was a senior administrative clerk working in the police firearms department in the free state province of south africa. in 2018, she made a protected disclosure to her commanding officer that illegal firearms destined for destruction were being sold by police officials to criminal syndicates. nothing came of her complaint. so she reported it to the former national police commissioner general kayla italy in 2020, so totally referred the case to the head of the priority crimes division in the free state who appointed a task force to investigate. soon afterwards, mashaila found out that her identity as the whistle blower had been compromised. the investigation was immediately halted. according to my chalet, it has never been revived. in january 2021, michelin blew the whistle again. this time she made a protected disclosure to settle a lay of alleged corruption and abuse of power by senior police officials in the

free state. the information she sent us a totally included allegations of irregular appointments and promotions and of the misuse of state resources. rather than being acted on michelle, his expectation of confidentiality was breached again. and her complaints found its way back to the very same provincial managers. she had blown the whistle on the officers. michelle had implicated, then embarked on a terrifying campaign of retaliation against her. one of the police general's shit implicated, opened a harassment case against my chalet and obtained a protective order. police officials investigating the harassment case then seized michelle his phone while she was at work using what she says was a fake warrant. patricia michelle is phone is still in the possession of the south african police service. and if that wasn't enough, michelle, i found herself under physical surveillance by police officers using unmarked cars . the car michelle a uses to collect her younger son from boarding school was followed all the way back to her house in november, 2021. michelle,

his digital communications also appear to be under surveillance. her bank has warned her about the disclosure of her personal data. in january 2022, my chalet was charged with misconduct for bringing the police into disrepute after publicly calling for the removal of the free state police management. after 15 years of service, michelle was dismissed after she refused to attend to misconduct hearing chaired by one of the police officials that she had implicated in her initial complaint. shortly afterwards, one of her former police colleagues warned her that there were plans to have her arrested and thrown in jail without being registered on the prison system and killed. now patricia michelle, he lives in hiding in different locations, fearing for her life. a police threat assessment confirmed her life was indeed at risk. she says in june 2022 shots were fired at her brother in an attempt to kill him after he refused to disclose her whereabouts to members of the free state

police management. according to an essay b, c interview aired in september 2022. living and hiding has taken its toll and michelle is family and their relationships. she has a 9 year old son who she can see only occasion holy. now, shortly after the interview was aired, michelle, a received information that the police general with a protective order against her, had given an instruction that she should be arrested. days later, a large contingent of police arrived at her house and harassed her and her family members. this happened even though she had a prior arrangement with the investigating officer to meet him with her lawyer in his office to be charged. that was subsequently done threats to her life continue. most recently, in november, 2022, her son in law was driving her to a safe house. when she noticed they were being tailed by a black ford ranger pickup truck without vehicle registration plates. she was convinced the occupants were assassins who had been sent to kill her. a high speed

car chase ensued. michelle, a son in law, eventually shook off their pursuers in a warren of township streets. she regards these actions as part of an ongoing pattern of retaliation. for her whistle blowing, patricia michelle a welcome to the show. we are very happy to have you. thanks for joining us at. thank you so much, john at that. thank you so so much for having me on your show all the pleasure is ours. patricia, i want to point out from the outset that your story is a heartbreaking one. it's one where literally every thing that a whistleblower might fear has happened to you has happened to you. your life is in danger, your family has been threatened and for your own safety, we don't even know what country you're in as we speak with you. tell us how this whole thing got started and how did it get so bad so quickly? i definitely john, as is like my live is a loving horner on

a daily basis. i. i report that, like you said, i reported that that am from 2018 a 1st time when i reported this sailed and lawful smuggling of states and fry. i'm from the provincial storage facility in m and a leg and they did was they do as they of my identity was then also compromised by then in the case was neva pursued. and then in 2021, i report that deb option of the provincial saps means more than freestate, who the former a national commissioner in there. okay. classy toil m. c toilet a man made up a protected cloak with disclosure to you. i before i made a disclosure, we had a conversation on the phone and he advised me to say, you know what, mike up picked as a disclosure, put it in writing, and emily straight to me. i did exactly that. a few days later, i was informed by

a colleague that at beverly bought, it planned his way back to the, for the state management in they, at a very people did a implicated in there in that ab protected disclosure. invades where even things that that are from, from their time on very tally mess of retaliations that, that against me an ad that this is wally and patricia. you did everything exactly the way in which it was supposed to be done. you made a protected whistleblower disclosure for your chain of command. at what point do you think the system was corrupted? who exposed you and do you think that that was the plan all along? i am the person who exposed me, but was there form a national commission in i believe it was the plan or later on because it had time i didn't even know did of they did. their former national commissioner was packed

on the corner barrel and did a report that i only fated a friend without in a mileage late as they did you as actually lead to the corruption that i reported. unbelievable. you made several different whistleblower disclosures. did the system ever work for you the way it was supposed to work? the system never worked for me. the system never. i wind every where i knock on it . if every door did a good thing or lackley or when i contacted debt, so they began human rights commission, their former i am a chief of the human rights commission. i took. i'd said he thought he bang any immediately is says that me e or investigate that may issue and immediately say to frank me is or is a was so bill in i thought they did were by me you mean the bad let now i'm not

in ab i forget the bang, any contract was there after he's going to wrapped, was terminated. he's going to let me say he's gone back and that and they refuse to to, to, to, to extend his contract. bad. i believe it was because i ye, erica. he from he did as a whistleblower status. as soon as you went up the chain of command, it seems that things went bad. but when did they go from bad to dangerous? what was the 1st thing that you noticed and how did it go downhill from there? it when from bad to dangerous that day, at the, at the adobe, the police officer came to my office to seize my phone. after that is then when i realized that i'm being st sought, i realized that a civilian dangerous of aliens on me in an on, at the day may, may, my children's car was foiled from the boarding school. apt to blue printing. i

realize that now this, this is not fanny anymore. there's that this situation is now dangerous. and then in february, after i went to the police station to open a case against the, the free slave management. i received the information from a former colleague to tell me that you got the information from our i a person the no 8 of ordering enough i select the did they explain stayed at their deb, but the general that i implicated in this product, the disclosure was going to open a criminal case against me, whereby i was going to be arrested in se, into an item or exit of to select the when our beaten raises that one. this thing in i would, it does vanished into the system without any one knowingly. i was, and then when i immediately went into hiding wood days there after the general indeed went to the police station and open a case against me. tell us

a little bit about the, the press reaction, the media reaction. it seems to me that your whistle blowing was crystal clear. certainly the media and the south african public, half to be appreciative of what it was that you were bringing to light. or have the police been successful in keeping this out of the press? you know, as john day was not matching media exposure or no, i exposed that information in the, in the public. i bought media exposure that day after that that, that, that, that, that the 2nd, the tim from my life we made it a rack was following us back at and after did they, i decided did am going to pen a open letter to the president of the county in am going to put everything out, did it? should anything happens to me that you should be held responsible for my dad because

i've knocked on his office door as a last resort in i never got any response. i did call the response from his p, a referred me back to the policeman as the one i also implicated in the were action . so i've, i've, i've written numerous emails to his office, he's p, a kept on rebooting me bit. and they said they, i decided i'm going to appear not open, made that to you to get attention in a from big day on them day. so when i say that, that forgive me at age and what about the people in the legal profession? this seems like a natural case around which lawyers would want to rally just for the sake of protecting the rule of law. have you had much in the way of support from, from attorneys around south africa? no. oh, i know i haven't had my ge and assistance from attorneys that

only had to as system that i was due for my whistle groups. i whistleblower groups in a some of the attendees who are gave me some advise bad is ab at the needed kings to me and say, you know what? i'm going to represent you in this an ailing. wow. safe desert of us? well, we know that you have been honored recently with a whistle blowing prize from the australian and geo blueprint for free speech. a blueprint is one of the, one of the 1st one of the biggest, one of the most important whistleblowers, internationally, up, anywhere has that helped you in any way, has it helped to get your story out there for the, for the general public to, to read into appreciate yes, definitely. it definitely helped me in a sense that me to get my story out there bad. and he didn't as says me where the

government, who as opposed to protect me, i haven't received any communication. i even tried to reach out to day to day, but i had recently elated deputy president of the in see was property going to become the next deputy president i to reach out to you and i didn't get much assistance from we're speaking with south african police whistleblower patricia my chalet about her odyssey. as a whistleblower, we have a lot more questions for her. so stay tuned. we'll be back after the short break with

some of called the conflict in ukraine, a war of attrition. others claim russia is pursuing its own strategy on its own time table. however, there is ample evidence the camp regime is losing and badly. and this is why this stage of the conflict is so dangerous. with ah, welcome back to the whistle blowers, i'm john carrier, who we're speaking with south african police whistleblower patricia. my shelly patricia, it's good to have you with us. what can you tell us about the response we were talking about this just before the break. what can you tell us about the response

to your whistle blowing from the central government? you've encountered nothing but trouble in free state. but what about in the capital? have you received any support to any, any parliamentarians, for example, anybody in the capital who has rallied to your side now noted, or instead i am receiving a lot of resistance. i've recently made a request to the police portfolio committee of parliament to make a presentation to them regarding my situation. and they are well aware that there was a greater salesman than on may live. it was rejected by the steps management. in a day that chairperson or the portfolio committee rejected it, as they spent, based on the fact that she was told by the south african management data assessment was not in the correct format at the address. essential salesman should have been

that dan, there the doug graham intelligence officer who did the risk assessment informed them that the salesman informed did that them did the doing at risk assessment is going to to delay it. and my live more because at risk assessment is that in there assessment, whereby they massey no my where abouts they mass no, my family's where abouts, they mass know everything about that. and they told him that since i'm already in hiding in, so they out. they have been already attempts on my left, he can nor do assessment and that that it assessment was dan on they waste because they wanted that this isn't why that they this is ms. west that matter to them that they change and they know they don't want to read the system anymore. the now one dennis christmas. but there's just no good news in this experience. everything that

a whistleblower would hope would not happen has happened to you lately. you've been placed in personal danger because of your whistle blowing, even your life and the lives of your family members have been placed in danger. how are you dealing with that? obviously, you can't live under these conditions over the long term. what are you hoping for here? you know, and john is very, very difficult to left like this. yeah. at being a whistleblower. why? you will have you read the stories you've had, it almost could in was so in, in, in am a state protection because they, it is the moment if you are going to a 2 year old, is the value in the hours of his b ha, being built in, in, in a was a blow up rotation in south africa is like you handing your life over to them on the saw the pretty. yes. and i believe that even when spell and alive is because i

refuse to be put in the whistleblower protection because a baby bo was supposed to protect you. is that people who ad exploring several foot on the killings in i and i know they put a fake. i have evidence to, to a tasty patricia. after i blew the whistle on the cia torture program, i was arrested and charged under the espionage act. and i ended up spending 23 months in prison here in the united states. but my whistle blowing was accompanied by great support widespread support in the legal community and among international whistleblower organizations. even many in the media rallied to my side. tell us a little bit about your support. oh and where it's coming from. i. i don't. i don't want to believe like, my brain doesn't want to process that. everybody has walked away from you. have you received any amount of support?

anywhere else in south africa society, he is disappointed i received in this essay. he's in the form of my a was a bill, was the board groups in row support groups. ada ad there said tape shall whistle blow was they add the as sam psychologist, the as social workers like john black a day and human rights. it could it be as like merely to has in a yeah that the a few people would really, really support that me through death if we're not for them. i don't know, and even for laugh, i received some funds from black, a support grands to pay for my accommodation at frank lane, defenders also i received some friends from them to playful now commendation badge . you know, most of these fans are only a ones or so most of the time i am barely listen. i am as i,

i don't even know. and most of the times where is the next month or im going to come from. but back the is a so apt to so far, i would a hell of order either was obama was i managed to, to, to he to, to keep it together. well, you raise a very important point there. this is something that i've, i've read about and people have told me about for, for years that it's a consistent theme through modern history for whistleblowers. that once they make their disclosures, they never make a financial come back. this is, this is a big problem with whistle blowing because, you know, without whistleblowers who's going to watch government, for example, who's going to hold people accountable for their actions. i'm curious as to whether or not you've had any support from former colleagues from a family members from friends as anybody reached out to,

to help you get through this experience. yes, i have a is a, a from, from, from a former colleagues, he is a lie dead moral support the family, moral support that graham intelligence officer were at bay for physical, physical protection in support. our doe, you as a police charged ipad mentally for, for, for, for pro take didn't meet for me on a daily basis. if i have to go to sam, we like neg, against me. you will to be there with me all the way. making sure him. yeah. things like i know that it feels like falling on your head right now. certainly that's how i felt when i was a razor. how are your family members taking all of this pressure? very difficult, especially for my youngest son. he is now 11 years old. i went in hiding february 22 in deep into 2 year without me while he was so used to mom, what year?

i mean ease, ease, easier. my, my, my, my made my daughters, my, my own, my san, my ad mean my family. let me say that right, my family, because there is no family life. as in terms of the children's eggs, my children also have them by the parents. my tell my children as now grow up would keep on in, in terms of their gender based violent, huge agenda, base violence against me is a woman, a protecting me. instead, the government are the ones who are italy, boy, because no family will survive through something you so much for joining us. we wish you the very best of luck. bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them and meet it. that is what patricia michelle did. we need more were some and thanks to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. 2

ah, that technology should work for people with that conflict with the 1st law show your identification, we should be very kept trust rather than fear of somebody with most protective foam existence. with a little of the 19th century, practically, the whole of india had been under that impose that heavy death, bringing the people into poverty and were absolutely had no consideration for the provisions of the local popular, showing signs of disrespect even to those who operated with their religious beliefs of the hindus led the mutiny of the boys to the british crown. rebellion began on

the 10th of may 18th in the form of a mutiny. the rebels quickly took over daily. the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the legal authorities dealt with the rebels cruelly, the slaves, the boys for the amusement of the public. this type of execution was called the mutiny resulted in the death of 800000 in the british empire. never broke the free spirit of the indians. mm mm. ah, for alice indians, near jerusalem after the idea rates, the cities muslims owls the shrine also this out.