as a new business with us, if you go to the she's consider us to cut his to notice the she company that we're still a to past african americans, donald productions the not live and are, you know, but of, of 11 i should be in office of an ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . donald trump is again at the nexus of american politics. he's also the 1st american president to face jail time. the entire legal apparatus of the state appears to be aligned against trump. can the rule of law survive this legal odyssey?

cross talking, trump. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he is illegal in media analyst, also new york. we have margaret kimberly. she is executive editor of black agenda report and in boston we crossed sabrina, saw that the she is host of sabby saps podcast and co host of revolutionary blackout network across sac rose in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate like you're the lawyer here. let me explain to us if this whole gambit against trump is actually going to work, i really don't wanna waste valuable time about talking about the veracity of the charges against him. even his most arden critics find them to be very, very weak. so what is the big picture? what is happening here? lionel? the big picture is he is looking at a total of 6 separate cases. both criminal and civil this manhattan case is the 34 counts of felonies. that's the 1st of a series. let me just say something right now irrespective of you said of whether

he was a good president or where the lie, trump, or not. anybody who thinks that the colloquy or the couch group on fox news is going to somehow change the reality of the your article. but case of this is a waste of time. these cases are as species as they may seem to some absolutely valid for the most part. there is a 99 percent chance that none of these will be dismissed prior to trial, and a 99 percent chance that he could very well be convicted by a jury of his cool peers. very quickly, no democratic appointed judge of any future aspiration would ever be responsible for or dismissing a case prior to trial. and can you imagine being a juror in manhattan that voted 80 percent against trump is going to be the talk of her or his neighborhood by say i was the lone hold out who voted to

quit trump. so could he get a fair trial here? absolutely not. if fairness means looking at the facts of the case irrespective of the defendant, well that's the point margaret, and so it's not about having justice is not having a fair trial. it's the outcome that they want. and again, you can love or hate donald trump, that's not the point here. but that seems to be and it seems to me that his constitutional rights were being grossly violated. because if he can't get a fair trial than what's the point of justice, go ahead margaret. well, it's, ah, the thing that we should know here is this is how what prosecutors do all the time . they have discretion. they don't have to charge people, they make decisions all the time, whether to charge or not. and if this is, will, how they operate is one of the reasons there are 2000000000 people in jail in this country because everything is stacked against them. i see no reason why he ought to

be charged with the crime that of a, in my opinion, a minor offense that took place before he took office that has nothing to do with the office of the presidency. he was trying to hide his personal affairs from the public and of the financial affairs in yes, in new york state. if you falsify business records, you can be charged with that. but again, prosecutors have discretion. this is an effort to try to get rid of trump altogether. and the way to get rid of trump or democrats, is to serve the people to do what they say they're going to do. and if they did that, they wouldn't have to worry about a former president who created many of his own problems himself. but this just shows you how bankrupt our political system is. and it shows you how cynical and i believe frankly, how stupid they are in using this case to get rid of someone who they could get rid

of by doing their jobs. yeah. sabrina, they, on the, on the face of again, you know, i'm, i'm not a lawyer here, but looking at these charges here they've, they seemed so frivolous to me. it's basically a bookkeeping errors. okay. and that's discretionary as well. and of course, it never happened to anyone else in the history of a building. i mean, it seems so absurd here. but when lionel is absolutely right, and i think this is what really dangerous is that you could have the most frivolous case brought to trial. and it's going to just go through. i like a factory. you know, the jury says guilty, okay. and then they have the sentencing and all that. it has nothing to do with the merits of the case. and if they can do it to donald trump again, you don't have to like them than what's stopping them to do it to the rest of us. go ahead in boston. well, said i, i believe this is a 100 percent politically motivated. they're just trying to prevent a donald trump from running in 2024. i feel like this is really more of

a distraction. i feel like a lot of the focus on donald trump, in this case, in particular, and a lot of the that the media coverage of this is just to distract the american people from the real problems that we have in this country right now. there is no consistency in reference to the law. i don't see them trying to prosecute other millionaires or billionaires for having bad business dealings. the focus is on donald trump, to prevent him from running in 2024 and whether people like him or not, you have to ask yourself, is this fair? so as long as we are distracted by donald trump, in this particular case, the american people will continue to be divided. and we're not focused on the class issue that we have in this country. and the fact that a lot of these billionaires are exploiting the working class. so as long as we are politically divided, we will never come together for any type of class movement in this country. well, don't never mention class, that'll get you in a lot of trouble. i get in trouble all the time for talking about it. conservatives are not supposed dog about glass. well,

yes we are. we're supposed to do that. i'm glad you said little about a month ago. before on all the leaks about a potential indictment and all that, trump was there, you know, he was making on the stumpy was talking to people, getting his campaign together, but he wasn't front and center now. he's going to be front and center for the next 18 months. at least. this isn't powered him immensely. and think of all of the free media time he gets. do the democrats know what they're doing, lionel? well, the answer to that is no, but i, i beg to differ. now this is, this is the political argument on okay, go, i beg to differ when somehow this is going to empower him. that people who are writing defense, those who were, who were not sure about him, those who were currently in a really undecided now by virtue of seeing this avalanche of injustice will somehow be lulled and pulled into the drum camps. that's balderdash. that's absolute. buncombe,

but what's happening right now is you're somebody which is more interesting the, the electorate here has a sense of habituation. we've been hit for so long that we're numb. we had to, and to impeachment, we have a total of 6 cases. people aren't, are sure about whether it's criminal or this, or is new york or upstairs it's, it's coming out of a part of the seemed. let me explain to me very quickly. this particular d a, this is the irony of this, this is the, the, the message is that he has a sorrows funded a progressive prosecutor. one of many, there's something called critical legal studies. and this is the precursor to critical race theory. and listen in his irony, this prosecutor has basically declassified and, and lowered like 40 percent of all felonies to misdemeanors under this theory. yet this restorative justice bringing people together as chewing the notion of class differences in the criminal justice system, lead burglars and armed robbers go,

let's try to find a new way to deal with this. yet when it comes to trump, the most pond telly is stats steadiest, nit picking these, the statutes used not necessarily because of a business record statue, but to show that he did this in order to cover up a crime that the prosecutor has yet to define. well, i really glad you said that line on because we don't know what the crime is and since this how absurd this is here. marvin line brings up a really good idea. i don't think there are any fence sitters in american politics when it comes to donald trump. everybody's decided one way or another. okay. and that's all a long time ago. ok. but what it does is it doesn't talk. we don't talk about the political issues that are important to everyone here. this sabrina, put it, this is that the most absurd sideshow and it, and it doesn't, it doesn't hold the feet to the 2 other candidates, particularly democrats,

you know, what they stand for. okay. and this is the absurdity of, and it's such a disservice to the entire electorate. margaret. oh, it is, you know, let's look at what's happening in the world. the world is moving away from the dollar. the dollar is for now the world reserve currency, but it's not going to be in a few years. and that's entirely because of the amateurish biden's foreign policy regarding ukraine in their foolish, ah, thinking they can contain rush or diminish china or whatever. but this is going to impact ordinary people out. we had the, the kogan era, a safety net disappearing, people who were already low income losing snap benefits. now, medicaid enrollments are going to be impacting millions of people and no one is talking about it, unemployment inflation. all of these things that have a direct impact on people's lives are not being addressed by our political system.

and that's exactly why they this case has been elevated by the corporate media, who are mouth pieces for the establishment in this country. and we see this dog, this effort to elevate trump in order to destroy him in order to distract people from the things that democrats don't address either. and is, as i said before, if they did, if the democrats were as advertised, they wouldn't have to worry about donald trump or de santis or anyone else. and that is where we are today with the public that is either low to sleep or propagandized in any number of ways and wants to know what they do is what they, it's sabrina, what they're doing. they want the, the electric to be angry. that's all they want to be angry about something, but that doesn't solve any problems. go ahead spring before we go to the break. this is true. i don't think this is actually going to hurt trump in a sense of the public's eye. i think that this is actually helping donald trump.

some people are looking at him now was like a modern figure of sorts. they're like, he is the ultimate victim now. so i don't think this is doing what the democratic party thought it was going to do. donald trump right now has moved ahead of ron to say this in the post, even though rhonda scientist has not formally and now to seems to be heading in that direction. and while a lot of people are focused on this situation, but donald trump, robert f kennedy junior, just filed the paperwork with the f, b c to primary challenge joe biden. and so it's taken your attention away from things like that. so i think people need to understand that sometimes bad press can actually be good. well god, donald currency donald trump is a master at that. we're gonna, i'm gonna go and jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on donald trump sate with with

us is a danger to the world as it is. and because it has all this economic power that it uses for the military, these are sick and twisted people that care about nothing but money empower. i'm not even hey, i think i think they're in different. they just want money empower and they don't. they're indifferent to who dice and as long as they can get that money empower. ah, ah, i will ensure that joe biden is not received for more years. do you think he's trump? as a general rule? no, never. we must conduct

a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rod and corruption of washington dc abided as pushing us to world war 3. i mean, i a you have to consider that. that is the worse. i mean, we should never be in a position the u. s. has no business in ukraine with with welcome back across stock. we're all things considered on peter le belcher manager were discussing donald trump. with okay, let's go back to lydell in new york. i know that there's always business fear of

election meddling from outsiders. we went through 3 almost 4 years of brush russia, russia, russia, gate with hoax. and now we have another one here. i mean, this is, this is the ultimate form of election meddling interference here. they're trying to determine the nominee for the g o p. now you don't have to like the g o p or not. but in the people decide who the nominee is, not, not the corporate media and, and in even the establishment. republicans that by the way, have not stood up for donald trump at all. go ahead, lionel. one of the things that donald trump could do, which he's not doing is to we mind folks in this one of i think all the constitution and an interesting quote which has always been attributed to mr. buria during the this dollars. jean, who's said something to the effect, i believe, to paraphrase, show me the man and i'll show you the crime. what he is the victim of right now is the most an american example of target prosecution. this is instead of the law

enforcement individuals waiting to have someone come to them that has victim i, somebody else they go looking for somebody. so isn't it ironic in this russo phobic kremlin baiting world that we live in right now? we're, we're always pointing to this, this, this horrible people still use the word soviet, even though that's anachronistic, yet here we are. in the case of a former president, and i don't want to bring up the term, banana republic, but just think about this. and this is the $1000000.00 question. and i ask all my friends, if donald trump were not possibly running in 2024, if that was somehow off the table, would he be prosecuted for anything? and the answer is no. and therein lies the reality of this. a margaret, you know, one of the interesting things that come about from this is a media ratings. have you noticed how cnn and m s m b c actually have an audience again. i mean, they're going to repeat this entire circus again. the cynicism just,

there's no bounds for this, the, the level of cynicism that these people have. and so what they do is, as it's sabrina, is pointed out, it's so many problems social problems that we're facing. and now we're going to have another 18 month soap opera here and, and cnn and m s m b, c bay are so happy. donald trump is back there. bread take it is back. that cynical . go ahead, margaret. oh, it's very cynical and i'm glad you pointed out the issue of election interference, which american presidents do routinely trump, did it in venezuela to overturn what people there had chosen. although these crimes that american presidents commit, which truly are crimes, invading iraq bush or destroying libya, obama or a trump targeting venezuela. those are acceptable. and those are things that they will never be touched for. never be called to account for odd the,

the worst crimes presidents can commit. but donald trump has committed, in my opinion here, assuming these charges are true, minor offenses, but that's what he's called to account for. and the other way, the us acts around the world bullying other countries threatening other countries, proxy war sanctions, all the coups, all sorts of things. nobody ever talks about. it's entirely acceptable to the political class. these projects are always bipartisan, but here in this country we see elect, this is election interference. but even as we point that out, we should say this is what from an other presidents have done, but it's something that's never address. yeah. it's sabrina sabrina. one of the interesting things to come out of this here is that it seems to me that the establishment, both republican and democrat, okay. and they want to see trump supporters react, they want another january, 6,

they want violence, they want the pictures, they, they want this narrative here because what they, what they want to do is they don't, they want to cancel trump, but trump isn't a cudgel for them to cancel his supporters and i think that's part of the plan year . i think that's why they're going to spread the his good trumps back according december or something like that. that's what they want to spread this out. they have a much more elaborate game to play here because they're not just going after their truck trump, they're going, they're going after his supporters. correct. and the media actually is committing election interference here i, we did see during our donald trump's response to these allegations that he was cut off during the m s. m, b c ah, premier of this of the speech here. they actually, we cut away from his speech a while he was talking once he started to criticize the biden presidency in rather you like what trump has to say or not to me that was election interference because they knew that he was calling out a jo biden's issues in fault since he's been in office and they didn't want the

audience to hear that. but we live in a country where the dnc has argued in court that they can hand pick politicians in the back of a room. we live in a country that has meddled in other countries. elections where they have chosen political leaders, like the ones in haiti, where they have removed political leaders through these regime change wars. but the same country will argue and try to say that russia interfere in the u. s. selections. and then we had the whole hysteria over russia gate. so the problem that we run into is that the u. s. government wants to police the entire world and they want to tell these other countries what they can and cannot do when it comes to someone like donald trump. again, i think this is a big distraction and they're not consistent with it. i don't see them trying to hold other politicians accountable for their business dealings as well. so we'll see what happens. but it's very clear here. they're already trying to metal into 2024 election. yeah. yeah. well sabrina, as amis. i'm you see moved away from donald trump speech

a fox news had 6000000 viewers, 6000000 watching that speech. ok. so they saw themselves. but lionel does that, do the democrats want donald trump to be the g o p nominee? you know, this is, this is the ultimate question. i would venture to say. yes. yeah, i do the most i do too. but let me tell you something. it became a very good point. i must say this. there was a schedule i'd reaction that we have here regarding the scene called interference. the biggest problem with january 6, the reason why they are still investigating president trump for that review. remember there's about 6 total investigations going on. there is something in our laws called seditious conspiracy. basically, what it means is if 2 or more people conspire to basically interfere with some type of legislative process. in that particular case, it was a certification of the vote. or when my parents and others, this january 6, maelstrom of, of lunacy somehow violated that. we talk about that. you can be a,

a, a campaign obstruct or if you're russian. but if you're hillary clinton and you claim that of a stove, that's ok. you could be deny, or if you're stacy abrams, that's okay. and what's interesting also is the greatest example of obstruction of the process is indicting the front runner. this is a key. i hate to keep saying, banana republic, but this is 3rd world lunacy. so it's skipped so frantic in for me enough for the i, but they the, the whole premise hillary clinton's entire message was they stole this from me and nobody ever arrested her. she has even got a parking ticket. let me also tell you, this is the woman who destroyed countless of files. it was never ever talked about . and one more thing, the hunter, bye didn't administration or they scared me the criminal conspiracy of hunter biden, which has been alleged by everybody. not so much as a peep, so a weapon, either the department of justice, the state court, everybody gets trump, but in examples of actual blayton,

flagrant examples of criminality and follow nice behavior. it's not even noticed it's kids are frantic. it's disjointed. it's insane. in a margaret that why, why should voters have any belief in elections any or if this is the kind of electioneering that we're seeing? i mean, you know, again, i don't have to promote trump or be against them here, but, you know, in 2016 he said, what do you have to lose? okay. because the middle class has been absolutely crushed. okay. i'm not to speak of working people, i mean the last thing people had was the vote and they exercised it. you can like or dislike what they did, but even that seems to now be taken away. if you don't write that vote the right way it's criminalizing dissent. margaret, well, that's what they've always done. no. ais, joe flattened the nominees, they. they were afraid of bernie sanders, being the nominee. they cheated him. they got the others to drop out the democratic party. oligarchs picked joe biden,

banana republic style. so this is the sort of thing that goes on all the time i've, but it is just being shown here and i relief because it's donald trump. we don't have real democracy. we don't have fair and free elections. we have rich people picking candidates, we have smoke filled rooms, choosing who nominees are going to be. so this is a continuation of something that's been going on all the time. and i really do hope that people pay attention and stop talking about this democracy that trump is supposed to have destroyed, which we don't have in the 1st place. well, you know, it's sabrina if the, again kind of stressing the question of what, what, how people should react to this kind of political circus here. because, you know, there's this mantra is that it's okay to do it to trump. okay. that's okay, because he's so bad, he so dangerous that it's justifiable, but that creates a precedent, doesn't it?

and i don't see why people would have a lot of faith in the electoral system if it is so subjective sabrina. they shouldn't have faith in the electoral system and we live in a country where 3rd party and independent candidates have to fight to even get on the ballot and states in this country. so we don't really have a true democracy if we did 3rd party and independent candidates would also be allowed on the debate stage. so i think even with the situation with primary challenging joe biden, that there's the opportunity that joe biden doesn't even have to engage or debate our of k junior or mary anne williams. and that's just the reality of the situation that we live in. but i think they're going after trot because trump was crass and because trop, criticized the deep state. and when that happens, you have 2 options. you can either conform and go along with the status quo or you will be criticized. you will be canceled and they'll push you out. and we saw this happen with former politicians like dentist, goosenich, where they actually re drew his district. so it, he didn't have one, so he couldn't come back to congress. and we've seen this happen with cynthia

mckinney as well where they challenged her and pushed her out. that came from her own party. i'm not from the republican party. so i think the idea is to maintain the status quo. when anyone who goes outside of those bounds is going to be pushed out and is going to be cancelled like the last 20 seconds. go to you. this is going to be a, again, a sad to stay. this is the american judicial system front and center. and what happens is, again, like i can't say enough target prosecution is one of the most unknown error or can unconstitutional aspects to this. so the reverberations, i hope will last many, many years from now, and i hope it just something to inspire change and that change immediately. well, i hope will all survive it because there's so much at stake all of the social problems that we've mentioned here that this political class, this doesn't want to mention as all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in new york and in boston, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember crosstalk rules.

oh, the wrong one, i just don't hold any world to shave out. disdain becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds of horn, we choose to look for common ground, may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. the united states of america is different. wearable people long to be free, they will find a friend in the united states. ah,

with you little bit about it all to anybody. basie, cecily sitting p. draw. you look at the book. they incentives of each cigarette. a few color rebel notions is one among several means to reach the goal of conquering foreign lands and bringing them onto the help of u. s. western economic interests. people in sadie, i didn't that he did to everybody. the democrats. yeah. during the training class. so no, we just say little soft power mary cast. the final goal of these thing revolutions to ensure that there are no independent players in the world anymore.

ah, with germany, thousands of demonstrators to mom, just stop supplying weapons to ukraine. sanctions against russia have drastically reduced living standards for austrians, and they've taken to the street to vienna check citizens or demanding the government resign that the country withdraw from nato and the european union and begin to go shay some, some cheap russian gas. and this is a protest by italian bankers, a british a being forced to give up the most basic thing i do down to russian sanctions. europe is literally plunging into darkness and it's freezing.

ah, but what does the us have to do with it? ah, i will ensure that joe biden does not receive 4 more years in order to make america great and glorious. again. i am tonight announcing my candidacy for president, for but november the 15th 2022. donald trump announced he would run for the american presidency in 2024. we must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rod and corruption of washington dc. but why is donald trump convinced the u. s. one survive another joe biden presidency? i was deep forces trump once again talking about.