is that the chairman received was warming about but he didn't change the way to act. that's why they made the decision to bring to change and they don't need it in class. so monday and chad, 3 african tribal from countries who already made the decision to expend western diplomats that they believe, do they have local government regional as to how much are the says re increasingly more countries have been trying to lessen that dependence on western powers? well, actually it is the beginning, and by the time we will see how this thing will go, maybe in the coming coming month is going to be more and more africa has

to be more independent from the bus on the trying to put some sort of not a country recall or nurse in the past about foreign countries in the world that have the place. i think they're trying to show it to the one that is trying to conditions to spin up to the pressure of not taking away the yes, you have to do like what happened? 10 years 2260 and it was so the condition of trying to learn more and more beyond that capacity of diplomatic relations with their west. what really happened to j, f. k. john korea, who will tell you all about that on the whistle blows? next i'm will be back in just on the often out with oh.

2 ah. 2 perhaps the greatest mystery of the 20th century was who killed us. president john f kennedy was at lee harvey. oswald acting alone, was at the cia or elements of the cia was at the mafia. the russians, the cubans, perhaps even vice president. lyndon johnson, we don't have the definitive answer, but our guest today is one of the world's leading experts on this subject. and he's uncovered some new information. i'm john carry aku and you're watching the whistleblowers. ah. 2 there are enough questions about the john f kennedy assassination to fill a library. countless books already have been written on the subject, and many of them have only served to make the issue murkier. rather than to clear up some of the myriad questions surrounding the case. every 5 or 10 years, congress demands that, that ca, declassify, and release

a tranche of documents related to the assassination. and with great hope among the public that more light would be shed on one of the most infamous crimes. in american history, we are invariably disappointed. many of us hang on films and documentaries, by the likes of oliver stone, to explain the many twists and turns in what has become a never ending investigation. but now historian jefferson morley, one of the leading experts in the world on the kennedy assassination, has found some new information in recently released records. he's learned that the cia has documents that showed accused assess, and lee harvey oswald, was on the cia payroll and involved in a c, i operation 3 months before the kennedy assassination. now, before we get too far in front of ourselves, we have to explain what we mean here. it turns out that the hands off cubic committee that oswald was a part of, in the months before the kennedy assassination was actually

a cia front organization. there's no indication that oswald knew he was a member of a cia front group, or that he was involved in a c i operation. but it certainly makes many of us wonder what other information the cia still has about the kennedy assassination. that it doesn't want to make public were joined by jefferson morley. he's a journalist, author and the editor of the j. f. k. fact blog. his latest book is called scorpions dance, the president, the spy master and watergate. jeff, welcome to the show. were very happy to have you. thanks for having me. john. jeff, you made international news late last year with reports that the cia is in possession of heretofore unseen documents about the kennedy assassination. tell us what those documents. busy say what they mean and how you became aware of their existence. though, this is a complicated story and i want to, i want to approach it very carefully. you set it at the outset, john. i thought it was on the ca,

payroll. i would not go that far. ok. he was watched very carefully by the cia and he appears to be an under ca influence. was he receiving money from the c i? i don't have any, any evidence of that with the story that that i told last year, and they were hoping to clarify this year is about the interest of certain ca, officers in oz was before the assassination. why is this an important story? well, this is something that the ca deceived the warren commission in the public about from the start. the original story was we didn't know anything about this guy. he just kind of came out of nowhere with the declassification of a lot of records in the 1900 ninety's. we now know that that story was false. that in fact top ca, officers monitored oswald, every step of is a white from 1959 to 963. they essentially watched him all the way go into dealey

plaza. so that has never been explained by the ca. how do we explain it? well, the records that i came across our records that involve the officers involved with the fair play for cuba committee, which you referenced before. right. this was a nominally pro castro group. it wasn't, it wasn't just to see a front group fair play for cuba committee was a real popular leftist group opposed to kennedy's policy in cuba. the point is the c, i a had targeted this group, the fair play for cuba committee for harassment disruption and destruction for co intel pro treatment. no. and that was going on in the fall of 1963. so the, the records that i've identified, there's $44.00 records of a cia officer stationed in miami, in 1900. 63 who's agents were in contact with oswald. all that is well documented.

and this is what the agency doesn't want to surrender. there's 44 of these documents, they've been denied in full, right? so we don't even have like, you know, what? i'm on redacted portions. these documents are completely with l. that's an indication of just how sensitive they are. documents that are 60 years old, right? and they all come down to the same question. they all bear on the same question, the operational interest of certain ca, officers in oswald while kennedy is still alive, that just when you describe it that way, you understand how embarrassing this material is for the ca and why they're refusing to release it. now we have a law, the laws very clear. this material has to be produced under us law, but the ca, because they have a lot of influence over any president have been able to stonewall and keep this

material out of public view. so that's what's still going on right now. we did get some interesting information last month when president biden ordered a new release of j. f k files to be released, but the ca withheld a lot of 4400 documents still contain redaction. so, you know where they're trying to kick the can down the road and say, pay no attention. there's nothing here and hope that people forget about it, but people haven't forgot about it. we know where the story is. it's in these 44 files that ca has their at the cia, freedom of information act office. these are records that are known to exist and they have to be produced under the law. the question is, can our political system mustered the will to challenge a powerful agency like the ca, you know, and so far, even, you know, president trump didn't do it, president biden right into it. there's not enough political will to tell the ca,

hey, you guys have to obey the law now. so until that happens, we're not going to get this story. in your work, jeff, you are very careful to avoid getting lost in the weeds of the minutia. approaching the fascination of president kennedy with more of a macro lens. many times you mentioned that while much is unknown, a good launching point for the investigation is that kennedy was killed by his enemies, and those enemies were powerful enough. they were influential enough or resourceful enough to cover their tracks, while many may find it entertaining or captivating to get knee deep in theories regarding secret service agents, etc. what's the utility of approaching this from, from this wider framing? well, you know, the whole, i always thought that the whole approach that people took the kennedy assassination . you develop a theory and then go find some facts. yes. it into your theory. yes. you know that

i as a journalist, that's not the learned recently that we didn't know before, because whatever they're trying hardest will to get somebody in congress. the cache . you have to cough this stuff up. i had a conversation a couple of weeks ago with robert f. kennedy junior, and he told me the most interesting story. it's a story that i hadn't heard before on the day that his uncle was killed november 22nd 900. 63. his mother f o kennedy pulled him out of school early and brought him home to their home in mclean virginia. now the head of the cia at the time was a family friend who would come over to the house. literally, every single day when the weather was nice and swim in the pool. when bob arrived at home and he was just 9 years old at the time, he said he got out of the car and he heard his father asked the c i a director or say to the cia director, tell me that your people didn't do this. and the director responded, i don't know who did this now, you can read a lot into that. but to me,

the implication is that the cia are elements of the cia were working independently of any oversight. so where you, where you conclude that the president had powerful resourceful enemies. i think that's a perfect fit. that's what it sounds like to me. no, and you know, john mccomb was a good friend of robert kennedy's. they were both devout catholics. mccullin's wife had died of cancer and, and bobby and f kennedy were very good to him in that time, a very difficult time for him. and so he did become close friends with them. and he did go to hickory hill to robert kennedy's house on the afternoon of november 22nd . that was the 1st person, bobby kennedy wanted to see. and arthur schlesinger tells the story, if he tells it slightly differently than the way r f k junior, told it to you,

but that, that, that bobby kennedy said to mccomb. your people did this or tell me that your people didn't do this now in flex injures account. mccomb convinced bobby kennedy that the ca wasn't involved. law, you know, i, that's the way it's less injured tells the story in his biography of r f k. but clearly, that's what bob kennedy thought in the moment, and there's another story that you should know. you know, later that week the president was killed on a friday the following friday, november 29th, bobby. and jackie kennedy met with a man william walton, who is a friend of jack and he was a painter. and he was going to moscow for a cultural exchange program previously planned. and they told him, we want you to take a message to the kremlin, to the people there and the messages this, some people say oswald was a communist or trying to connect him to the communist world. we don't attach any

importance to that. we think that the president was killed by an age or domestic conspiracy. landel bobby kennedy is going to try and get back and become president if he becomes president. he will continue his brothers policies of de taunt towards the so be you was kind of a reassuring method. we're not going to blame you and we want to, we want to return to j f. case policies. you know, that's what jackie bob kennedy thought a week after the assassination stay thought. president kennedy had been killed by his domestic enemies and there's a lot of evidence to support that. so that's what we're still struggling to find out is you know how, what happened, how did that, how did that happen? but clearly, bobby kennedy thought that and thought that for the rest of his life, yes, dramatic. what should historians and the american people take from this? this new information, lee harvey oswald, was a person of interest to the cia. as you said, from 1959 throughout 1963. what does that mean in the greater scope of things?

does it point a stronger finger? do you think at the cia and are we talking about official ca, or elements of the cia? we're talking about senior officials in the counterintelligence staff and the directorate of operations. people who reported directly to deputy director discounts where the counterintelligence st. james angleton and the important one of the important things is, people say, oh yes, of course they were, you know, keeping track of him because he had been a defector. he had lived in the soviet union, but the people who were paying attention to this is important, understand around it, right? this operational interest. sure. we want to see it says they can't be made public. but the story that they, that they conceal is the story of this interest in as well. so what was that interest? you know, that's why we need to see the records because that's right. you know, it, it could be that it could be that they were paying close attention to them and they didn't realize he was going to shoot the president. they could be that they were

paying close attention to him and they were manipulating him to do something that they wanted done. you know, we don't know, but we do know that there was this interest. and we do know that the ca still heidi jeff, stay with us please. we are going to take a short break. we're speaking with author historian and journalist jefferson morley about the assassination of president john kent, will be back with more questions for him after this short break. stay too. ah ah, ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race, his on offense, very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how

that strategy will be successfully, very critical time. time to sit down and talk ah ah ah. 2 2 2 it seems that every few years, the u. s. president orders the national archives to release documents related to

the assassination of president john f. kennedy. indeed, congress has mandated that all documents related to the murder be released, but that hasn't happened. the documents still come out in dribs and drabs and much of the information even when released is redacted. we're talking about the kennedy assassination and the documents with our guest historian, author, and journalist jefferson morley. welcome back. jeff. thanks for having me, john. jeff, i'm perplexed as to why presidents of both parties have steadfastly refused to declassify additional j. f k documents. despite the fact that congress, what is the c i have to hide? are they trying to protect information related to operations in places like mexico, city, havana, moscow? are they trying to protect sources? maybe even the dead ones? why the reluctance to, to just come clean unless there's some involvement? well, there is a, you know, as a, as a clandestine service, they are just inherently reflexively resistant to true,

complying with full disclosure laws. and so i think one part of this is they don't want to create any precedent where outsiders can come in and say, you have to declassify this and you have to be classified that what they say about what their withholding is. this is information that will harm national security for the least, you know, but then when we, when we see what had been withheld and when new information is released, like in december like last december, you know, the information for the most part is not earth shattering. no, it's not the name of live informants, you know, it's pretty mundane stuff. so what's going on is they're trying to make sure that they have the last, the word. and the question you raise is a good one way, you know, if you don't have anything to hide, why would you keep hiding things? and their position now is, well, we just need to keep hiding this stuff. but trust us, there's nothing that matters in that, right?

yeah. right. like ronald reagan said yeah, trust but verify. ok. we want verification that there's nothing in there and they won't provide it so that suspicious behavior, right? i mean sure. why wouldn't you do if you didn't have something to hide? why wouldn't you come clean? so i believe that they are hiding significant information. that's embarrassing now . well, it's 60 years ago why not? you know, well, j. f k occupies a special place in american culture, american imagination, american politics. and so, you know, if something was very embarrassing about j. f k, that could be really, really harmful to the ca today. and like, you know, somebody would get called up to congress and have to explain things and their budget might be cut or, you know, people would demand answers about this or that. so, you know, you say, oh, it's ancient history, but when it's j, f. k, it, you know, it's radioactive, it's a lot, live matter still in politics today and could have a big impact on the bureaucracy as it exists today. you have studied the kennedy

assassination, perhaps more than anybody else. what is this new information lead you to believe about the possible involvement of other players in the killing killing? and i'm thinking mostly about the mob or cuban exiles who have long faced accusations. is there any new information that has u wing changes in your analysis? well, i think that, you know, we don't have a good explanation of what happened on november 22nd. we see a lot of ca, stonewalling, but i think, you know, what's in these records in terms of what they would show about, you know, who specifically, you know, was acting, you know, suspicious, or, you know, malevolent way towards the president. you know, we're not going to be able to answer those questions until we see all the dogs. and the way i see it is there's a couple of possibilities of senior cia officials who,

who meet the criteria knew about as well before the assassination, were involved in other assassination operations. or who implicated themselves in the crime. and when we look at that group of people, you know, we can narrow this down and say, you know, most likely we're talking about, you know, pop ca, officials, bill harvey or jim angleton. we might be talking about top people at the joint chiefs of staff. you know, given the secrecy, we just don't, we can't be sure, but for me that's where it's boiling. it's narrowing down to senior cia officials, cuban exiles in pay of the cia and, and pentagon officials involved in fall slag operations against cuba. that's where the focus that i see is now jeff, where does the kennedy assassination investigation go from here? should we expect to see more documents released eventually in the near term?

in the long term? do you expect them to contribute substantially, to the existing body of evidence? and why do you think you mentioned just a moment ago? why do you think that americans are still so captivated by the kennedy assassination? 60 years after it took place, let me start with the last one i, you know, the question of classified information and when can it be made public and what's harmful to national security? i mean, that's in our headlines every day now. right, right. resident biding, took these documents from, took those documents, so it's all about what's classified. how do we control it? how does the government control it's information? so the questions raised by kennedy assassination or with us today? and that's why, you know, that's why it matters today. i think that you know, that the price that we paid in 1963 when we didn't have a real investigation. we had a very super and superficial investigator in the warren commission. a commission

that was operating in the dark on a lot of key questions and never knew how to ask the right questions. because the cia had kept them in the dark. think about it in a common sense. point of view, of course, at all should be made public. it also made public a long time ago, you know, and that's the thing that we need to impress upon the leadership of the country. but it's very difficult because, you know, sierra is a big organization. sure. they resisted this thing. time and again, you know, they still trump, they still buys, they'll step the next present. yes. because you know, that's the way they do business. it is, i've always said that the ca normally loves it when a new president is elected. and he doesn't have intelligence experience because that new president begins his classified briefings the day after the election. and so a team from the presidential daily brief staff goes to,

to the president elect. and they lay out all this classified information and they say, mr. president elect, wait until you hear the cool things that we're doing all around the world. and they give him these blue border, or black board reports that are classified 456 levels above top secret. and they've recruited him. they've made him one of the guys. they love that, right? know, and every power, every president has been intoxicated in talk the word or this by the power that the ca offers rates the secret solution, the painless solution. you know, there's no political downside because nobody will know about it. you know, presidents who want to get things done, which is pretty much all president, that's a powerful drug for them and you know, and it might work once or twice. but historically, you know, if backfired badly and many times, you know, but that's not the experience. the presence have they go in and they want that

power, you know, they want it, they want that instrument of power, that the ca represent. and you know, that's, that's part of the problem that we've had is because we haven't had accountability because presidents at the end of the day say i want them to be able to do whatever they want, you know. yeah. and so they keep getting away with it. yeah, that's right. and you know, there's a, there's another thing at the ca to, it's kind of an attitude where if they don't like a president and a president doesn't like them. they know that they can out wait that president, because if you're in the leadership at the ca, you've been there 202530 years, sometimes more than 30 years. presidents come and go every 4 years or every 8. and so if they don't like you, they just wait and somebody else is going to come and take that position. yeah, yeah, that's the way it works. you know, and we've seen that on the, on the j f k record, you know, it's like trump rhetorically. you know,

no president has ever been so hostile to the cia rhetorical. yes. that's right. and it's right since, since harry truman, when push came to serve with the j. f. k records, he gave them everything they wanted. he didn't push back at all. now, you know, we don't know why trump did that. i assume was, you know, he had something else on his mind that day. i don't attribute any grand importance to it. sure. but you know, a biden, you know, biden wouldn't buck them either. now he's more of an institutional, less type guy. he's going to go along to get along. you know, at the end of the day they need the cia and the ca doesn't need them. that's what the j f. k file story tells us. i think you are 100 percent right. that unfortunately is all we have for you today. i'd like to thank our guest, historian, author, and journalist jefferson morley, and thank you to our viewers. i'm glad that you could join us. the buddha once said, there are 3 things that cannot be hidden, the sun, the moon, and the truth. to which the great scientists, galileo added,

all truths are easy to understand. once they are discovered, the point is to discover them and john curiosity and this has been the whistleblowers. ah, ah. 2 ah, i am extension and i am here to plead with you. whatever you do, you do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that you won't get anywhere else. welcome please. if you have the state department of weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporate, to your fax for you, go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't watch my show, stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is

called direct impact. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way ah a scramble to investigate an alleged leak of classified documents, which include plans for the claim conflict. despite the rising concerns of the

documents were fabricated. a senior american lawmaker admits there is a possibility of a you estimate presence in taiwan as beijing washington's action in the island. a violation of the one china policy dangers a job who host the so i'm still pub cause says the us knows taiwan is a red line of china and is trying to exploit that. he makes those comments in a later.