ah, with me tone, welcome to worlds apart, one unforeseen yet vividly manifested, consequence of big conflict. the india plan is the rediscovery of national interest among the countries that are not directly involved in this war. squeezed between the rock of western sanctions, pressure and the hard place of that on the canal, mac and security realities. many nations have been forced to make carefully calibrate the choices instead of following somebody else's leave. how is this newly

discovered geopolitical maturity reshaping be entire international system? well to discuss it, i'm now joined by is a far as and i was just balk professor at the school politics international relations at quite a zombie university in pakistan. dr. jas. boys, great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you. now, in one of your interviews, he talked about how pakistan needed to break with this psychological dynamic of codependence. and you were discussing both being the case in ukraine and your brother relationship with the west. this tendency of always having to take florence. and i found this very interesting because i think this is a very accurate description of what's going on in the world today. and not only with pakistan, but many other countries when they have to truly focus on what's in their interest and it's no longer rhetorical point. it's actually necessitated by live by car life

and car choices. do you think we would have been at this place in this place if a warrant for the conflict in ukraine? i thought all of us voted to got a notion, as i said, good venetian, but started against the you'll get said thought it into my mission within the state, whether it's the practical auto practical. that's the reason there is a whitening what the americans that have started the demo summit in which they wanted to raise is holding the moon. so it was auto. and this, the daughter was standing. there could be a good relation in the united states, but this thing is similarly in the u box is very much sportive to the, your gradient vibe of self determination and their right to go by themselves and in

this context, but on, by mostly believe. but do not support the military operation in new york and just in the west and the russian invasion. so in this context of cause it limits. but on the other side, if you see the data such as that and not ignore it. so you can say becket. effort to bill is why my relation with demarco. so that's why we have been if you recall our data in the united nations general assembly, what he meant the day you get regarding dated. we are not a boarding, the russians. we are not proposing, but as he says done, we upstairs on the resolution because the board, this is not sewing it but most of the place. so we are not here to

criticize anyone, but we wanted to be gone. but dr. jeff, i think this is a very important point because the ability to see the situation in all its complexity rather than in black and white and taking sides is actually a very important marker of psychological maturity. and it is usually the children who give each other either or to be a far more sort of just start to v c choice. do we need to do this? you have to do what you call it. i did just sort of break away in public. i'm sorry for correcting your russian didn't capture them because they're not part of the freshest territory. there i was in the states that i'm saying when i checked up to the judge. yeah, that's grammy and then it is. yeah, damascus to be independent of sovereignty of those region. so

similarly, it tried to clear some kind of a thing in because that's what you call it. i mean, and because that's the dialogue but dieting assertive med welcome tobacco. so you can imagine that not dependent on a quad jana or india to dana. so you know, either way, those with them is or is not the mature abroad. that's why the masters been off us do what again the speed a few. similarly, our prime accidentally was in moscow, but we didn't explore the action in the u. k. though we were did either, but at the binary level, then we did that up, the it was not deploy medically, correct. and when den bilateral negotiation with the muscle and it done according

to the should do. so you though with us of it done is full. well, dr. jeff fall, both russia and china to some extent have been pushing against this american pressure and she submitted down to one set of rules beneficial for the american ban . do you think washington could have foreseen this kind of effect on other countries not only on russian china, but for example, in pakistan on indian, south africa, brazil. and in many of those countries are involved in very pain speak seeking decision making process one, they have to weigh in their own priorities versus be consequences and the costs of not agreeing with the americans. do you think that kind of a fag is in american interest? and do you think they were after it, after all? i think that's the, the sanction being hurting the american alive as well as the american

stage stage, which are not on the same page us. why is this just the heard out? that's why i thought and raise ship land busy pipeline gas pipeline, and we are not solving on this was because of the social sanction by by this action cannot be your medic on my understanding is that with the past the don't die. the sanction said august. sanction will be good news in the back. why dad lose lose been back because you see even know ben day, what was sanctions? india started importing double. triple barrels of the i'll brush here. as 400 misers. the bottom blue ball,

the 13. essential that anyone was but jennings, remove the auto magically under that come under the same. so does he into thought that was what i read the article the sanction, but for the indian damascus amendment. that's the reason trustingly. this is a lot of you say to look at the right. yeah. the quadrant of the f 100 meters moved from india. and that there was a note in america me this select that there was a selective sanction. and they would be losing all the mass of sanctions will be seen in the affective, due to pursue a other state. so what i'm hearing you say is that in picking up

a battle with russia to punish russia and to make it a bay with the so called western lab, the democratic world. and the westerners and the americans in particular are encouraging and very different that similar sort of behavior actually among other nations, when they not only continue to pursue deals that are in their own self interest. but they also a formal conscious about political choices that they're making. do you think that's ultimately in the interest of the western lab world, and they actually losing it in the exact thing that they're fighting for with russia? this is important because then the testing case when the to sanction on the bass, the guns i mean on the right. yeah. and then probate that you will not, but just these think from there at the same time, they are driving them indirectly bit and dependency on that. the problem with the

national countries is dependent too much on the united states. if you recall, when they're not on this screen, the pipeline got 2nd gas pipeline started. it goes from because she had to be germany this time, but mistake was upset. not did them city jump and said you're upset because they wanted to sell it to be yup. yup, is that it's costly for us? so these sanctions also him, me don't you guys said that was going to sources. also, i got to what you're only going to me so that it can benefit you rather than others . so this is the but we have to see the countries mcdevitt, you'll get the security, georgia, the law. everybody does that on their own like india. it is not dependent on you

can say that what is the lead security, but instead of why it was certainly india can deny and then make an amendment in distinction rules. so this is debate in a bedroom. that was the economy of your life was just said. 7 well, you can even call it, but i think some of the rationale suggested that they answer russian sanction should be called and to use sanctions, because not only to hit and in benefiting the united states and great deal, but they are actually directly hurting the european economy. well, but it's up to the europeans to make up their mind. what is up to us right now, dr. jeff paul is to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments they chant. ah ah

a question of home when you thought at home that you let me live up a merger give you my listen look and you live muscles. do you look on the initial? do i live club to get a dealer post on the diaz can use to put body? what do you do origin, but you also still were saddam those a similar to like one to book that i've only been just as to what i see the student buses though group you medation says decent it on both.

ah i welcome back to worlds appointment. the far and boston just spoke professor at the school of politics and international relations at hyde yasamin university in pakistan. dr. jessica before the break, we discussed this somewhat childish, or you can call an info, infant tal american approach to foreign policy. either your with us or your against us, and i think there is an alternative, it was there in place even before the recent visit by chinese prison she to moscow . but i think in the aftermath of this visit, this new paradigm is far better articulated. and what russia, in china, i suggesting, at least when it comes to their biological context, but perhaps even more, even broader internationally is a relationship that has

a much lesser emphasis on expos, 17 fact, they don't demand that exclusivity at all. they have a more room for standing inch each other's differences and conflicts, while still putting, you know, a priority on having that relationship as a container for everything else that can be sold within it. is that only a trade on the russian chinese relationship, or they behave in a similar matter with that partners, including pakistan. i see that the russia relationship will be having a positive impact on the central ational states. and it will be going to strengthen this vi projects on employees to be at a project in the best or middle east, or maybe, but as a question go whatever you call it. and certainly it would bring a piece in boston's neighborhood because if you go to the chinese join and they are

in a better position to manage the about astonished and also our jan stoddick nomic could do so definitely if there is a bi lateralism between ratios and the chinese, it will be going to have a positive impact on the economy projects, especially, which are small. so monopolized by the china. now you speak about pakistan. and so what passed this sense? russia and china, you know, influencing the events in this neighborhood. but don't you think that the times are also requesting a more active physician, not only from pakistan, but many other regional powers be iran turned k, perhaps even india. i know you have a policy of neutrality, but the policy of neutrality, i suppose, doesn't mean that you have to sit and wait until russia and china figure out

everything else. maybe positively try to balance, did not want it to be an extent, but you know that international policies is easier to say that you are a neutral, but it's different going to be a new drug, especially like what's done, which is a very much look at it. joe, graphically it says legend and it says in the issue of a big stand with a bigger population nuclear fall, having if you went in the region and having a distinctive role to play in the global politics. so it's such a clarity is not an onset afloat. but tom has adopted a strict bilateral ism, that we can move in on issue issue basis. but we are hitting the decision of product darian dictation for the us sometime from the others. but john is not

working on this, but if you see that we like it or not really bad west or was the fuse to all to sped in? this was the god alas, winter lump bus. donald was there when everyone was talking that distance from russia by standing, right? mr. with didn't need us yet. know when western nations invited us out of america, but right on our, in our bottom is the listing the us frequently. but in this demo, this is summit, which is basically entirely against the guy. and that that is why i and i yeah. so, but on, refuse to speak. we accept that we had design, build, maintain a good relations process ratio of the united states, but not as the cost of our friendly state. absolutely. okay. can i ask you

specifically about that? because i keep hearing that for many plan, just sunny thinkers and officials that you want to have a program at a fair relationship with the united states. after having done a lot of haven't listing for them in again, it's done losing a lot of here. soldiers shooting, losing a lot of treasure, not getting even the basic gratitude in return. and yet, here you are saying again the despite. although dick the tauriel issue and says from the west, you want to have a pragmatic relationship or good relationship with united states. what is your picture of a good or balanced relationship in the united states? because, i mean, i'm come to the, even to ask whether the united states is capable of having a relationship, a proper relationship, you know, back and forth with any other country rather than. and they're so sophisticated arrangements when they want everything for themselves and giving nothing in return . so what's your view of a good relationship in that country?

it's very simple. by good relationship. i mean it's got to be a degree. that's one spectrum to the other spectrum. but sun is not clear that united states cannot be our department because it has chosen india. and we were begging the united states in order to balance the india individual context. now, that does assisting sporting yes. next hour try so you can just book is normal. yes, on the economic just bought a book, but generally you're one of the biggest part of the u. s. and the bass, cuz definitely don't like to lose the biggest market in the world in a population. does the projecting pilot, but that's going to fuel. so because in that, bilateral isn't eileen, then we can follow the issue is relationship. so my one issue, let's say i'm asking you to partnership, but you the says you're alive,

spotless ship. all the tests that you're alive basically then it means that i should not mind it, let them go, but i can bet you by the american population. so my relationship by be what is practically available, keeping in mind the magical spot in the sky. and we did that, i tried just my set. so everything which i used to expect. no, i'm no more known. well, you'll get the most alive. and at the same time i'm asking also the lisay. that's if they're not giving us and we're not expecting how to behave with us now or we mentioned the issue of i'm gonna stand where pakistan as i said, did a lot of haven't lifting for the americans. and i don't know if you would find this comparison appropriate, but i think something similar is happening in your brain right now when the

ukrainians are doing a lot of sacrificing for the sake of the so called western democratic world in deep losing the people losing that treasure losing the developmental prospects for the sake of a western interest. do you think they will get the gratitude or the support of the west as a, as a whole for do you think it will last for a considerable period of time? because the reason i'm asking, and it's a very general question, because i think pakistan is hold for the same and deep and got very little in return. i think that there is too much in the guess applied to done. and i was saying that you applied, no, it was the added drive either to fight inside a lot of don this for the russians on our own board. so we wanted to montana buffalo. so that's one of the strategies that worked out of both the stop in the i

think, even before 979 and america practically in doing the job a better reagan to know, support by 2000000000 in package. so it's not the same way and it against the water batteries. and yes, they also, you know, with also with them we live independently. also, if you read the americans of the victor, all the american journals, the american analyst, their alleging during the even bought on saturdays, we wanted no more no new to life. but the symptom not trusted by the americans. that means the bus stop waldman dinning, it's independent whenever it requires. so that's why we did a practically speaking. if somebody asked me that, do i believe the american between me today?

no, that's wrong. i was on my board. i very yes because of the good thing . that they're fighting for their own independent existence, then they should be indebted to the best of putting them if they're thinking that they're fighting, what the defense of the liberal democratic was. i think they would be the losers look good. follow them super. bob's the smallest it as a barn on the just book there. then it does. this gives you cancellation. if i'm in bed, well good. if i'm not good, it's not acceptable. so individual was, don't want to be by the policymakers or by the you can say from opinion with all you want in your, in, in the coming years that before for them. and they should give us know if i've done

it twice. and if i may ask her i, we only have about a minute left, but i think it's a very important question. i heard you say before that the interest of russia, china pakistan, iran overlap, and i've got us and we all have a stake in that country being stable, more or less. and perhaps even developing economically that would, you know, both our own inter dependence, economic independence and development. now the americans in the west can no longer provide security to guidance. and i think that's pretty clear. but do you think they could be in the position of providing insecure a tier to ganeth son through their support of various militant groups or otherwise for the specific reason of destabilizing both the region and many of the of the am, is that happen to be in that region, russia and china included i think i understand is this 10 proxy

wall. there's a lot of militant groups of you. whether it's a dash, i'll guide i was big on the simulation. although millikan gross, who goes just everybody and he's going to be exploited by a stick. and if you just google, see i yeah, it is said that more than 2000. wow. yeah, i mean still in a one, according to the bob associates. so the magazine, no, the a one is done. they had a connection do. there is in the drive to back it up on the lead. going to snow on the side, like in this, living, the of on the lead, the iris did they ever stayed there? so what, why if the america was completed by the doctor just all we have to live in there, thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much. and thank you for watching hope to see her again on well,

the part. ah ah, ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is offensive, very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very critical times. i'm to sit down and talk

with germany. thousands of demonstrators to mom, to stop supplying weapons to ukraine. sanctions against russia have drastically reduced living standards for austrians, and they've taken to the streets of vienna check citizens are demanding the government. resign that the country with door from nato and the european union. and beginning oshea some chief russian gas. and this is a protest by italian bankers, a british being forced to give up the most basic things. jude and he, russian sanctions, europe. isn't it free? plunging into darkness. it's freezing.

ah, but what does the us have to do with it? ah, i will ensure that joe biden does not receive 4 more years in order to make america great and glorious. again. i am tonight announcing my candidacy for president bush. on november, the 15th 2022. donald trump announced he would run for the american presidency in 2024. we must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rod and corruption of washington dc. but why is donald trump convinced the u. s. one survive another joe biden presidency at ward deep forces. trump once again talking about

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