weren't discussing both being the case in the ukraine and your brother relationship with the west. this tendency of always having to take florence. and i found this very interesting because i think this is a very accurate description of what's going on in the world today. and not only with pakistan, but many other countries when they have to truly focus on what's in their interest and it's no longer rhetorical point. it's actually necessitated by live by car life and car choices. do you think we would have been at this place in this place if it weren't for the conflict in ukraine? foxtrot sported to got a notion as i sent it to venetian. but i thought that gave the, you'll get thought it into my mission within the state, whether it's the practical on a practical that's the reason. there is a whiting, what the americans that started the demographic summit in which they wanted to raise is holding the new world order. and this,

the daughter was sustaining the american, the adobe wanted good relation in the united states. but this thing is similarly, and your boss is very much supportive to the, your gradient vibe of self determination and their, i feel, go by themselves. and in this context was done by mostly believe, but does not support the ministry of ration in new york and just in the best on the russian invasion. so in this context of cause it's limited. but on the other side, if you see the dynamics such as that cannot ignore it so you can do that. effort to bid is warmer relations with democracy. so that's why we have been if you read go out, it was

a date in the united nations general assembly. what he meant dame, you've got regarding david. we are not boarding the russians. we are not opposing. but as he says, don't be upstairs from the resolution because we want this. it's not so going on. so we are not here to criticize anyone, but the end of the doctor. and jeff, i think this is a very important point because the ability to see the situation in all its complexity rather than in black and white and taking sides is actually a very important marker of psychological maturity. and it is usually the children who give each other either or ultimatums, either you are with us or you're against us. adults tend to be far more sort of sophisticated in how they go about building

a relationship. and i wonder why do you think the west or the united states in particular, which sees itself as the only adult and international community, the only adult who has to decide for everybody else? why do you think they put such a start the v. c choice before the rest of the world on the issue of russia. now, i would understand they've been treated russia in such a way. that's fine, but they also put the rest of the world in before the choice of either you or with us born against us. do you think that's a wise choice and do you think that's an adult choice? i think that, you know, either way, those all with them is all i fully understand better. we focus on these kind of things. we have to keep in mind during before law on and i meant what was done. i use it with us of it. but this slogan became ready gone to question 911. when the madica's told us

either with us or with that it was lucky because you live because the same shouldn't be annoying in a bunch of stuff. but now we are living in a most people work. it's not a unipolar world, in your, in your atlantic settings asserted is your, is your best setting, janna asserted, i'm actually going to check. yes. yeah. so it has started from book gross. so much into it that you have to do what you call it. it's the, i mean, god, yes. does. he thought of it can when republic, i'm sorry for correcting you. russia didn't cut, capture them because they are not part of russia's territory. their faith that

i'm saying when i checked after to the judge. yeah. that grammy and then it, it is, yeah, damascus to be independent of some of those. and so similarly, it tried to create some kind of a thing in because that's what your goal is to. i mean, and taiwan, but diety assertive med welcome to back off. so this i'm actually not dependent on a quad jana on india to dana. so this, you know, even without with them it's all, it's not a mature approach. that's why the master's been asked us do what against the speed, if you similarly our prime accidentally was in moscow, but you didn't explore the action in your grade though we were dead either. but at

the bilateral level, we did that up, the it was not deploy medically, correct. and when den bilateral negotiation busy muscle and it done according to the should do so you know, with us of it done is full. well, not just fall, both russia and china to some extent have been pushing against this american pressure to submit down to one set of rules. beneficial for the american ban. do you think washington could have foreseen this kind of effect on other countries not only on russian china, but for example, in pakistan on indian, south africa, brazil. i just didn't. many of those countries are involved in very pain staking decision making process. one, they have to weigh in their own priorities versus be consequences and the costs of not agreeing with the americans. do you think that kind of

a fag is in american interest and do you think they were after it? after all, i think that the, these sanctions that being hurting the american alive as well as the american stage stage, which are not on the same page us. why is this just the out? that's why i thought and raise ship land busy pipeline gas pipeline. and we are not solving on this book because of the 3rd party, so it should be sanction by by this action cannot be your basic on my understanding is that with the passive don't die. the sanction said, august sanction will be going to lose back why dad lose lose been back because you see even know then day what was sanctions this india started

importing tip battle. russia wanted as 400 misers. the bottom, 2017 essential that anyone was but jennings, the movie our automatically under that to come under the back and saying, so does it do? thought it was the day that what i read, they were the same, but for the indian damascus amendment, that's the reason, trustingly. there is a lot in your so if you look at the right, yeah, this quadrant of the f 100 me those move from india and that there was no us in europe, nor in america mean that there was the book. so that's the sanction. and there

will be losing all the sanctions will be seen, ineffective to, to pursue flows, the behavior of others. so what i'm hearing you say is that in picking up a battle with russia to punish russia to make it a bay with the so called western lab, the democratic world. the westerners and americans in particular are encouraging a very different, similar sort of behavior, actually among other nations, when they not only continue to pursue deals that are in their own self interest. but they also a formal conscious about political choices that they're making. do you think that's altima in the interest of the western lab world and they actually losing it and the exact thing that they're fighting for with russia? this is important because then the testing case when the to sanction on the bass,

the guns. i mean, on the right. yeah. and the probate that you will not, but just these think from there at the same time they are driving them indirectly bit and dependency on that. the problem with the natural countries is dependent too much on the united states. if you recall, when they're not on this screen, the pipeline gas sector, gas by plan started to construct from because you have to be germany. this type of fish upset. yeah, i did them city jump and said you're upset because they wanted to sell it to the yup. yup. is that it's costly for us? so these sanctions also him, me don't you guys said that was good sources. also. i like

to work on it on me so that it can benefit you rather than others. so this is the way, but we have to see the countries mcdermott. you'll get the security job. everybody has done on their own, like india. it is not dependent on you can say that what is the pled security on that why it was certainly india can deny and then make an amendment in depth sanction rules. so this is debate in a bedroom. that was the economy of your life was just said. 7 well, you can even call it, but i think some of the rationale suggested that they answer your question sanction should be called and to use sanctions, because not only to and in benefiting the united states and great deal, but they are actually directly hurting the european economy. well, but it's up to the europeans to make up their mind. what is up to us right now, doctor? just paul is to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments. patient

ah ah, ah, luis to come to russian state will never be tied as on the north landscape with will ban in the european union, the kremlin. yup, machine. the state aunt, rush up to date and the sport mckibben our video agency, roughly all brand on youtube with

ah, watching it was a in a shadow, shorter one. and i'm not trying to stay like a national z. m a not by mia. ah

ah hi, welcome back to worlds of park with the far enough boston just spoke professor at the school of politics and international relations at kite yasamin university in pakistan. doctor just called before the break, we discussed this somewhat childish,

or you can call it info, infant tile, american approach to foreign policy. either you're with us or you're against us, and i think there is an alternative. it was there in place even before the recent visit by chinese prison she to moscow. but i think in the aftermath of this visit, this new paradigm is far better articulated. and what russia and china, i suggesting, at least to when it comes to that by the actual context, but perhaps even more, even broader internationally is a relationship that has a much lesser emphasis on exclusivity. in fact, they don't demand that exclusivity at all. they have a more room for understanding each, each of those differences and conflicts, while still putting a priority on having that relationship as a container for everything else that can be sold within that is that only a trade off the russian chinese relationship or they behave in

a similar matter with that partners, including pakistan. do i do that the relationship will be every positive impact on the central asia, staves, and it will be going to strengthen this vi projects aren't close to be at a project in the bus or middle east, or maybe, but as a question, go, whatever you call it and certainly it would bring a piece in the neighborhood because if you go to the chinese join and they are in a better position to manage the about astonished beer. and also our janna was starting konami could do so definitely if there is a bi lateralism between russia than the chinese, it will be going to have a positive impact on economy projects, especially which are small. so monotonous by the chinese. now you speak about

pakistan and so what passive fans, russia and china, you know, influencing the events in this neighborhood. but don't you think that the times are also requesting a more active physician? not only from pakistan, but many other regional powers be iran turned k, perhaps even india. i know you have a policy of neutrality, but the policy of neutrality, i suppose, doesn't mean that you have to sit and wait until russia and china figure out everything else. we want to really try to balance, did not want it to be an extent, but you know that international part of this is easier to say that you are a neutral, but it's different going to be a new drug, especially is this like what's done, which is a very much look at it graphically, it says legend state, and it says p. but in the issue of a day, which is

a big step because population nuclear fall having is due to contest within the region and having a distinctive role to play in the global politics. so it's such a plan if he is not at that afloat, but i'm as adopted by lateralism that we can move in on issue issue basis. but we are hitting the distension of product daddy and dictation for the us sometime from the others. but the chinese are not working on this, but if you see whether we like it or not really bad west or was refused to la to sped in. this was the god alas, winter lamp was there when everyone was talking that distance from russia by standing brian, mr. with didn't see the us yet. now when western nations invited us out of america

right on our in our bottom is the listing the us frequently. but to portsmouth in demo this is summit, which is basically indirectly against the giant. that is why the giant yeah. so boss on refuse to speak. we expect that we had design, build, maintain a good relations, broad range of the united states, but not as the cost of our friendly state. absolutely. okay. can i ask you specifically about that? because i keep hearing that for many plan, just tiny thinkers and officials that you want to have a pragmatic peer relationship with the united states. after having done a lot of haven't listing for them in a dentist on losing a lot of your soldiers losing, losing a lot of treasure, not getting even the basic gratitude in return them. yet. here you are saying again the despite. although dick the tauriel issue and says from the west,

you want to have a pragmatic relationship or good relationship with united states. what is your picture of a good or balanced relationship in the united states? because, i mean, i'm come to the, even to ask whether the united states is capable of having a relationship, a proper relationship, you know, back and forth with any other country rather than. and they're so sophisticated arrangements when they want everything for themselves and giving nothing in return . so what's your view of a good relationship in that country? it's very simple. by good relationship. i mean it's got to be a degree. that's one spectrum to the other spectrum. but sun is not clear that united states cannot be our department because it has chosen india. and we were begging the united states in order to balance the india individual context. now that does that assisting sporting? yes, next hour try so you can just book is normal. yes. on the economic just bought

a book. but generally you're one of the biggest bottles of the us and the back because definitely don't like to lose it. the biggest market in the world, in a population, does that mean you can move in in that balance basically then to reality. and within that i just, my said. so everything which i used to expect. no, i'm no more known. well, you'll get the most alive. and at the same time i'm asking also the lisay. that's if they're not giving us and we are not expecting how to behave with us now or we mentioned the issue of i'm going to stand where pakistan as i said, did a lot of haven't lifting for the americans. and i don't know if you would find this comparison appropriate, but i think something similar is happening in your brain right now when the ukrainians are doing

a lot of sacrificing for the sake of the so called western democratic world in deep losing the people losing that treasure losing the developmental prospect for the sake of a western interest. do you think they will get the gratitude or the support of the west as a whole for do you think it will last for a considerable period of time? because the reason i'm asking, and it's a very financial question, because i think pakistan is, holds for the same and did and got very little in return. i think that it's too much into a guess applied to done. and i was saying that if you apply to know it was was we had a tries either to fight inside was done before the russians on our own board. so we wanted to montana buffalo. so that was the strategy that worked out of both the

stop in the i think, even before 979 and america practically into in india dog about the reagan to know support by 2000000000, you'll see in package. so it's not at the same way. and it against the water that isn't yes, they are either with us or with them. we played independently. also, if you read the americans of the victor, all the american journals, the american analyst, their alleging pop star duties be even bought on saturdays. there will be no more allied of no new to life, but one symptom not trusted by the americans. that means the box nod waldman dinning if independent whenever it requires. so that's why we did a practically back making if somebody asked me that, do i believe the americans pitching me today?

no, that's wrong. i was on my board. i very yes. to give you good. if you think that they're fighting for their own independent existence, then they should be indebted to the best of putting them if they're thinking that they're fighting for the defense of the liberal democratic was i think they will be losers. look good. if i wasn't super bob's the smallest bid as a barn on the just blog, then then it does. this gives you cancellation. if i'm in bed, well good. if i'm not good, it's not acceptable. so individual was due to be by the policymakers or by the you can say from opinion, with an audit in your, in, in the coming you that before for them. and they should give us know if the thought

to be a bother twice. and if i may ask her i, we only have about the minute love, but i think it's a very important question. i heard you say before that the interest of russia, china pakistan, iran overlap, and i've got his and we'll have a stake in that country being stable more or less and perhaps him and developing economically that would you know, both our own independence, economic independence and development now that americans in the west can no longer provide security to guidance, and i think that's pretty clear. but do you think they could be in the position of providing insecurity or to ganeth, done through their support of marriage, militant groups or otherwise for the specific reason of destabilizing both the region and many of the of the i am, is that happen to be in that region, russia and china included i think i understand is this 10 proxy wall. there's a lot of militant groups of you. whether this is

a guy was big on the separation of millikan gross who goes just everyone. and he's going to be exploited by a one of thought. if you just google. yeah, yeah. it is that that more than 2000. wow. yeah. i mean still in a one stop. according to the probably so. so the bad guns. no, the a one is done. they had good connections do. there is in the drive to back it up on the lead. going to snow on the sideline, in this living be of on the ever did they ever stayed there? so what if the americans was completed by the doctor just probably have to live in there. thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much and thank you for watching hope to hear again on well,

the part with mm news. what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be in arms. race is on often very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk

with the last is a danger to the world as it is and because it has all this economic power that it uses for the military, these are sick and twisted people that care about nothing but money empower i. it's not even, hey, i think i think they're in different. they just want money empower and they don't. they're indifferent to who dice and as long as they can get that money empower. ah, ah, i will ensure that joe biden does not receive for more years. do you believe trump as a general rule? no, never. we must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rod and corruption of

washington d. c. o. by did as pushing us to world war 3. i mean, i a, you have to consider that, that is the worst. i mean, we should never be in a position the u. s. has no business in ukraine. a the the gives it and then the stories that shape the week when you recall that terror attacked in saint petersburg, which killed prominent russian war, journalist, lovelyn, sitarski, and wounded at least 40 other people. also a head on the program. this, our protest against judicial reform spread across the israel made soaring tensions

in the region following a state of recent deadly terrorism. the victim of women, the elderly, and children as young as one who was shot multiple times at close range r t marks the 20th anniversary of the us invasion of our rock. recalling and massacre in the ton of deeper.