ah, immediately realize not only to about trillions relations with this associate of the powerful grouped of fam, external disclosure by releasing lifting a finger, one particularly lucrative deal that fortunately never came to fruition, would have seen trillion earned the astronomical sum of $4400000000.00 ran that's about $255000000.00 us dollars in advisory fees for a consulting contract that the professional services for mckinsey had, with the state owned energy company as com, effectively extracting resources from the south african state. the trillion transactions are currently the subject of various fraud corruption and money laundering investigations and prosecutions in south africa to which good since evidence and disclosures continue to make an important contribution. bianca goodson . welcome to the show. we're so happy to have you, bianca, your whistle blowing seems to have happened in a short period of time almost immediately after you started

a new job. take us back to that period. you've just begun this new position. you spend your 1st weeks and months easing into the job and then what happened, what did you see? and then somebody asked me to open up a bank accounts with a bank that, that doesn't have appraisal south africa. so the bank called the bank of the road and it was not the main transactional account of, of the he that i was looking for. and then in between all the papers, when i had to sign over the account, i was led to an affidavit basically saying that ive opened his account, the 100000000 rand. i'm dropping but i'm getting all the rights that account over to someone else. but i don't know, that was the one, the one warning flag. and the other warning flag was the fact that this company that i just started it was, it was 3 months old, had killed work in the value of him, south africa. now in my limited understanding of companies know,

companies that lucky and it worked with the states, right. so it wasn't like private sector work or, or anything like that. just look at the states to him. 1000000000 rent in 3 years. and i just, i mean there was everything in my head was just saying this is not normal, the just not average. and some of the i, yes, more fortunately, i think, you know, i'm side i resigned and i resigned based on suspicion at the time. and it was 18 months later that i publicly through the whistle because then it became clear to me through the work that our investigative journalist of africa, that the company that i worked for was, was enrolled in this really hit tick ploy and elaborate money laundering scheme. to basically steal money from sites and that's why i blew the whistle, but yes, i only worked for 3 months and i resigned 3 months into my job at the shortest

employment in you have ever had in my life. so many of us who are whistleblower struggle in the beginning we think should i say something? should i wait for somebody else to say something? should i say something anonymously? to protect myself? maybe i should hire an attorney. what was your thought process here? all of those things, just some, just a more. all of those things i at the time i was married. so the 1st person i spoke to as my husband. and you know, when the news articles have come about about this entity and the people that i was working with, i 1st read to my husband and i would say to him, look, i need to do something. i need to speak to someone about those. i think it may be that the information that i have could be useful. my husband at the time was absolutely adamant. he said look, just put your head down and just move on. if your life don't cause a scene, just just be grateful that she lift, finding a job. let's just move on. my husband,

who is that drama escalated to the fact that we actually had fights about it? when journalists call me and he would see that a journalist called me on my phone or you would, you know me onto the phone from, you know, because it is private number. and then i find out that there were a journalist like that. i mean, he started actually physically abusing me. that was of my husband. i spoke to my mother and my father, they just cried because they, they didn't know what to say they, they just, they, they paused, they just sit down, can you? and i spoke to my post is from the church, and the posters in the church told me to not do anything. i spoke to numerous attorneys, who, i mean what it's the, she's the one advice the one bit of advice that i got from one of the attorneys was actually quite funny. 9 hindsight he, he suggested that i leave my computer in my call and i drive my car to like a really dodgy place of tongue and allow my call to accidentally get broken into

and my laptop stolen. i mean we, we don't have all these options. the one option that we couldn't do at the condo was approach law enforcement agencies in south africa because the speculation at the time it turned out to be true was that law enforcement was captured. so that's out. we call it the n p a, which i think is equivalent in america of the f b i we, i couldn't approach any, couldn't go to any cop police station. i couldn't do anything like that. so eventually i got so tired of lawyers and people around me telling me that i should do nothing when i knew that i had to do so i threaten them. actually, i told them i said, if you guys don't help me and i said this to the organization that was helping me, it's an organization called plus and i coach another organization called corruption

watch. and i said, if you guys don't help me, i will do this on my own. i will create my own website. i will put my own data on my own website. i will do it myself. and eventually, plus conceded, they didn't think it was the best decision for me. but, but it was one of the biggest states breakthroughs that we have in fact capture because often might, would, for blowing a lot more whistleblowers able to use the information that i, my mom eventually supported me. i needed safety my the public while i was testifying and find to expose the state capture bizarrely. i didn't. i wasn't afraid of of these sort of big guys with these big guns that i was taking down. i was actually afraid of my husband because he was with me because to be so it was, it was a very difficult part at the time i felt confident in the guys that i was implicating because i had data. i had

a copy of my computer and everything that i was saying, and the legation that i was made that i was making will or best buy evidence. so i knew that the worst they could do was sort of pony's verification into a bit of a smear campaign which they did. and that's it. to me, it wasn't, didn't even come close in comparison to me having to defend me that i was a good mother, people in the country calling a hero. but i was in family court trying to, you know, save my daughter. and so it was very difficult time after the release of the group, the leak females, you went public with even more documents proving crimes committed by trillion. that took unusual courage. and frankly, it kept the story in the news to the point that even if the authorities wanted it to go away or wanted to cover it up, they couldn't. it was your 2nd round of revelations that kept the pressure on the government to continue what turned out to be a deep criminal investigation?

was that your calculation? yeah, so look at just a personal thing. i'm a day to day. and what i loved about the information that i made public was made today to had all being preserved in the way that i made copies. i image my computer before i leave trillion and and what i knew i could do was explain to anyone who is reasonable and logical and wanted to listen. that might, at least my day to wasn't fabricated. at least i can stand and say, yes i was the author. oh yes i was the recipient. and that's where the cook to lead spelled a little bit because because of the way that it was sort of sourced, there wasn't somebody standing behind the data and saying this is my testimony. so it was a bit calculated and it was a bit deliberate. it was also very deliberate that up on a website without any restrictions i. i didn't once at the time, there was so many smear campaigns happening against people that is beacon against

a capture. i didn't want anyone to say that i'm only allowing a few elite access to my data and so forth. i an indiscriminately made it public to everyone, right? so that i could prevent those kind of smear campaigns coming that you know, that i had a different agenda. so i could have been criticized. anna could also be recognized, or what i was trying to do and, and i was prepared to take them in equal proportions. bianca's, stay with us, were speaking with south africa whistleblower bianca goodson, about financial corruption in south africa. we have a lot more to ask her, but we're going to take a short break. so stay tuned. 2 2 ah

ah ah oh, when i was showing wrong, when i just don't hold any rules yet to say proud disdain becomes the advocate an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground.

i am rick sanchez and i am here to play with you. whatever you do, you do not watch my your show seriously. why watch something that so different my little opinions that you won't get anywhere else work of it please. i do have the state department, the c, i a weapons, bakers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your facts for you, go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't watch my show, stay mainstream, because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change. and dwayne think . 2 0, welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku we're speaking with south african whistleblower. bianca goodson. good. have you with us? bianca? bianca, the impact of your revelations? can't be understated in south africa. you exposed one of the biggest financial

scandals in the country's history. you did it virtually single handedly. you did it at great cost to yourself and your family. tell us what the government has done in response to your whistle blowing that might ensure that corruption like this doesn't happen again. love it to have to we in that regard, i mean these sort of the personal have. so let me talk to that because it's a bit easier, regrettably, the legislation, our country and the leaders in our country haven't really done much to support no protect whistleblowers from, from that perspective. i mean, there's a lot of statements that have been made in us. i'll presidency with will, does with the protective and stuff but, but nothing's really happened in that regard. and that's what's been very, very unfortunate. how even from the visual perspective they have, they has been some progress. so with all the revelations of they capture what had happened was it was the presidential commission that is pretty place people commonly call it the under commission. but the correct name is the state capture

commission of inquiry and that rank for about 3 years. and it was a really detailed investigation into all the allegations that capture and the findings which have not been released have found that there was infects that capture and recommendations go as far as criminal actions towards those implicated and so forth. but in addition to the recommend, in addition to those top recommendations, they also recommendations for legislation to change to protect whistleblowers. regrettably, i think in south africa though, it's sort of like the wheels of justice, just take a really long time to 10 am. so there hasn't really been like a lot of tangible except, or even the commission that came out was it was televised and it was live, right. so, so all the stuff and all the allegations that were made were all brought him in a formal, judicial inquiry. so, so the people implicated really no place to hide anymore. so that is a good thing. i think that there is a, when i take it as a,

when in many countries around the world in response to high level whistle blowing like yours, governments often respond with legislation to either correct the deficiencies in the legal code or to strengthen the position of the whistleblower has that happened in your case? has the south african government moved to clamped down on corruption or to protect whistleblowers through improved legislation? unfortunately, not been no legislation changes every night was the lowest. no. and so all the supported whistleblowers get at the moment is, is like maybe from india's and because only not even india basis of africa, foreign india. and so now it's really recreational, but there's absolutely no support, no protection for whistleblowers in south africa. and i really wish that that was different and maybe my last time it will, it will change. but at the moment nothing's moved on that am being, like i said, we've been a few recommendations from the traditional inquiry. if you really prominent members,

all of leadership and government that have my brace, then statements towards the protection of the blow was but, but nothing is actually being communicated that it's actually in, even in the works. have been drafted for example. so that's, that's quite grateful on the whistleblower side. on the cramping on and pick on corruption side. i mean, i've been told, i don't know this because, i mean, i don't compare legislation because countries, but apparently of africa. africa got like some really good legislation, right. we've got the public partners management act, we've got so many just an expert crammed on a corruption. but the problem is it's the people that basically, i'm paul, it's actually a fit that leads legislation. so what's been really said is that they haven't necessarily been changes to legislation to come back to because our legislation is pretty good. what said though, is that even with findings that there was criminal activity and certain contracts have been taken to court and tainted is corrupt and fruitful,

fruitless and weights baseball and so forth. no actions been taken it taken against the accused until just recently, i'm at the moment the good to all all in bloomfield, i and one of the cities in south of job it am for one corruption case. not, not, not even the big one strike, not even the ones that amounts of billions. i'm the one to thank quote for now it's just a couple of 1000000, but it's taking a really long time to even just act against those implicated. 6 so i think, i think there's just a process that south africa needs to go through. i think we need to use the good legislation that we have to hold those who are guilty to account and the, and i think we need to maybe consider legislations which, which there's been i would on. and if they don't, would be great towards the percent whistleblowers so that they just did. he hasn't been a lot of action. and it's, it's quite disheartening. i'm very interested to know what the public reaction was to your whistle blowing. clearly, we would expect you to be celebrated, you provided an important public service. you should be honored with awards and

flattering press coverage, but i'm guessing that none of that happened. tell us about the public reaction to your testimony and to your later release of additional documents. bizarrely actually was quite positive. so if you sort of look at your average citizen and my barometer for that is the feedback that my parents to see, for example, that was all very positive, that it was a lot of praise. there was a lot of you, very brave you a hero. there was a lot of escalated to that extent from just the general public. and from anybody in position of leadership. no. that's that was, that was, that's maybe a bit said, but listen, i mean, i didn't do what i did to, to get praise or anything like that. and of course be was affection a significant section that, that, that obviously wasn't campaigned right. there were people that say that i, you know, i had all these, even the changes that i was disgruntled employee, that i was in it for the money that i must have been completed. and that i'm just

covering my, you know, that i thought they were a lot of people that are very particular to that were quite north d am. but i mean, you can manage that. you just, you just the least, you know, and you just don't even use so. so the probably was a lot more than i saw. i just chose not to sort of focus on the negative stuff. my know, my parents will some of it, my husband read all of it. am but overall, the consistent message now that it's been a couple of years later have been that my, if it's appreciated and valued and that's just sort of like from general sort of populations. so for example, my neighbors think that i'm awesome. you know, and people in industry, people in leadership positions in politics. you haven't quite got the same response from them though. but that's ok. that's ok. blowing the whistle has taken a heavy toll on you like it does with many whistle blowers. you found

a new job after leaving trillion, but you had to move on after going public. in an interview in 2021. you said becoming a whistleblower had led to the end of your marriage and had made you virtually unemployable forcing you to rely on your elderly parents to survive. i'm truly sorry to hear that. but despite the cost of your actions, you said in 2017, that you did not regret going public. if anything, you said you should have come forward earlier. why do you feel that way? having paid such an enormous cost? i mean, i was, i was a bit naive, i guess when i did my, the whistle because i didn't anticipate that people that i love who just on the way they did, i didn't anticipate not being employable. i mean, it's all just confuses me now because my skill set has not changed in any way. my ability to add value to an organization hasn't changed. and yet finding a job is the most impossible thing. so trying to find the point of gold at the end

of a rainbow, it's impossible. yeah. i didn't sort of will see these consequences in i did know the whistle, so i so i'll do to gain my case. i mean, if i knew what i know now, i would maybe time be a little bit more calculated about it. but still, when i think about it is, i wouldn't have been the person that got the left up stolen out of my call because my evidence kid is more weight to me, standing behind it. and me being able to write and f a david and say this is what happened and say that this is the person that gave me the instruction and so forth . you know, so, so i would do it again because i do love the country very much. i don't know the south africa, i don't want to be like one of these people existing in, you know, going to live in australia, canada, anything like that? nope. in senior places. but you know, i, i really love living and i think i've got a lot offer. and i love that my daughter loves the country and is born here. my,

all my family are here. i want to stay here and i want to see this country drive really considered south africa and the commodities that we have. the potential that we have is no reason why we shouldn't be a will country. and i'd like to sort of help towards that in a little bit, which is where i can. and if that means in re corruption for the resources go to places where they need to go, then i'll do that. am. yeah, the consequences have been degradable am. yeah, but, but i mean, what else do you do? i can tell you this. there's no way that i could have lived with this my conscience . i couldn't do that. that's. that wasn't even an option. bianca goodson, thank you so much for joining us. corruption is a cancer, a cancer that eats away at a citizen's faith and democracy, it diminishes the instinct for innovation and creativity. it squeezes already tight . national budgets crowding out important national investments. it waste the talent

of entire generations. it scares away investments and jobs. that's why we need whistleblowers. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry aka, and we'll see you next time. ah. 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah ah ah

ah ah, a a diplomat. postpone his plan, trip to china has more european officials called brussels. i have a more neutral stock. the tension between washington and beijing. germany says that despite withdrawing from after the fight hell region, i am dealing with

a current diplomatic conflict where berlin will only expand it in bo vote on the continent. we have julian assigned in princeton for 4 years, and we're here talking about journalist calls for the release of a grow around the world on the 4th anniversary of his arrest. we speak to an activist to pull out mainstream media for their.