know the americans, the security state, so to speak, with national guard units playing a, a more and more important role in, in the intelligence establishment. there should have been better supervision or for whatever reason. um, the security was lacks, we know that the u. s. french and spies on its friends. this is not a surprise danger, isn't that? oh, you know that people know that we listen in on friends. the danger is that people now know how we listen that on friends. that because that same technology can be used for other things, our ability to collect intelligence may be damaged down the road and that could be a danger to the united states of america. and that's it for the our thanks for tuning in for the latest breaking news and updates head over to r t dot com. and don't forget to follow us on all of those for me to platforms and we'll see you back if it's somebody hour with

ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross sock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle

. french president microns visited china, has the atlantis is world an neocons of all stripes in an uproar. instead of being a mere cutaway in service of washington, the french president actually stood up for his own country and europe. but his micron a buck short and a day late ah cross sucking microns visit to china, i'm joined by my guess. rachel marson in vancouver. she's a syndicated columnist and r t contributor and in pittsburgh we crossed to anthony more at the he is an associate professor at robert morris university, are crossing roles and a fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, rachel, let me go to you 1st and vancouver. thank you. i know it's an ungodly hour there right now, but, you know, i think you've known me pretty long and i've never been a big fan of the french president mc chrome. but what he had to say in beijing and

his flight home and what he said subsequently from returning from beijing, he's sticking to it and you know what? i agree with a whole lot of what he has to say. my only lament is wise in saying it now and not years before rachel. i'm sure it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he walked away from china with a major deal for francis airbus, which by the way, is in be competition with america's boeing. it there in a do awfully globally. so the deal he got in china was a 160 new commercial vehicles for china made by airbus and then doubling of the assembly and production in china for airbus. so i'm sure that did absolutely nothing his ways, opinion that may be cut off. she brush yes, which kind of me essentially an industrial base and what you get in return really expensive. allen g, liquefied natural gas from washington at $3.00 to $4.00 times the price asked her michael's own words and he went over there to washington and talks about all this

to our makers last december and even said, look, you have this new biden's inflation reduction act as well, which is re protectionist against european industry. so that's going to harm us, the expense of energy you're sending us now in lieu of the russia. yes. that we cut ourselves off, hook to please you guys is killing us. so he goes over to china and oh, suddenly it's starting to look pretty good guy. he darks on the board economically speaking at a time when inflation is skyrocketing in europe, and they're facing all these other problems because of the u. s. and it's agenda and the blow back from that. so suddenly in light of all that he, he is suddenly miraculously singing the praises of strategic european autonomy. i think that's the context we're looking for. well, you know, i did that, that's the term i wanted to bring that up in the program this, this strategic autonomy will anthony, what does that mean to you? because my criticism of a crown is that he does say the right thing some times,

but he doesn't really always act in the same way. now rachel brought up the tray deal that he got with airbus that that's really good for france here. but there's, i don't see a whole lot of consistency here. he's very, very on board with washington agenda and his rachel is just shown us here. i don't see what the french and the europeans really get out of it, but they keep, continue to do it. as a matter of fact, european leads compete for washington's favor, for what return i don't know. but so what in your mind, what does this strategic autonomy mean because it's just a phrase to me go ahead anthony. i agree. i mean, i think on one level, i see it is just a phrase, but on another i wonder if there is a recognition that, you know, let's face for the better part of a generation. it was a unipolar world. the united states basically said, here's how it's going to go and eat or gotten line, or you face the consequences which china ascending now, especially as an economic power, becoming more and more a player on the,

on the military stage as well. the belford road initiative, perhaps being the the signature economic initiative. i think suddenly you're looking at countries, particularly in europe that are saying, well wait a minute, do we have to play the u. s. lead game into perpetuity, or is there another option for us out there and at the same time, and i don't know if the timing perhaps is coincidental. but don't forget to, you've got that latest set of leak documents in the united states, which although might seem tangential to the conversation, is another example. and micron certainly remembers this as certainly if you were going to talk to angle of merkel, she tell you the same thing in the u. s. spies on its allies. that's something that when it happens, the americans refused to really take, excuse me, take a for, acknowledge it, and try instead to, to, to, to deflect criticism the other way. so i wonder if what's basically happening is the europeans are saying, hey, wait a minute, we can deal with you over here,

but we can also do with you over here. yeah. well, and, and rachel, it's, it's something that it hasn't been mentioned and all the noise that you, particularly politicos seems always be ahead of everyone on this. i don't think as a coincidence. ok, i think i think they play a very strategic role in channeling information. but you know, the criticism of crown, but you know, at the same time, the blowing up the north stream pipelines, i mean, i think some people in europe thing, these americans, they're, they're more than crazy and they don't care about here at a more on a more sober note, rachel, i mean, do you think that there's a sense of causality here? is that what is ukraine? i'm sorry, what is france getting out of this whole endeavor and ukraine, and i'll be americans are talking about taiwan. i think that you know, mac chrome, the saying look, you know, we went out this one, we have no say in what's going on. the washington doesn't want to negotiate. it ended this conflict, and they're in there, brewing up something in taiwan. i think mccrae, this saying, look,

we went with you on ukraine, we're not getting the thing out of it. we're getting negative returns actually. and now you want to bring us in to take on a made our major trading partner here. maybe it's just, you know, out of desperation, is that because over the last year and a half, what has the us done for europe? what is us done for france? i can't list one thing, rachel. yeah. well, i think france has been looking to see what it can get out of this whole conflict since the beginning of the conflict. if anything, in the same way that washington has found the way to ramp up its military industrial complex with weapons for ukraine as a result of, you know, being able to justify more spending in the defense budget and more profits for shareholders. of those big, big companies in the us military industrial complex. so recently france is kind of you didn't to that and they said well, okay, well the you is now a lot, a 2000000000 euros for weapons for ukraine. and there's

a bit of cat fight happening right now within the e u. and it's kind of come to a head this week and it's between brass, which is arguing we should be able to use bass funding for your ukrainian weapons in the e to produce them in the you and france obviously would be a huge beneficiary of that. since it is the big weapons production above producer in europe, and on the other hand, you have the prime minister mathias more wiki in poland, who's saying no, we shouldn't be able to use that in the ear. it should be able to be used everywhere. well, that's hardly surprising because he's basically acting as the big advocate for washington right now within the e u and is, oh, is that the beneficiary of american weapons? so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that he might just be advocating in favor of spending e, you money on the military, industrial complex in the u. s. that francis trying to get something out of that.

because really, as you mentioned, peter france really hasn't gotten anything out of this whole thing so far. still is a french politician in history that allied, but not aligned, allied with we could agree with this and that this principle era, but no, we don't have to get aligned with you and limit our options. and i think this is the macro, the sending a shockwave out there to people that know that this is a possibility. and it's actually being acted upon by the majority of the countries in the world. anthony, i agree with, you know, and, and there's another is a most staunch supporters of the iraq war from 2 decades ago. we'll have to admit it did not end well, even if you were the most staunch supporter of the u. s. military effort in afghanistan, you have to admit it did not end well. and so as a result, now you look at, you know, what's going on in ukraine. you're frustrate 15 months into this military conflict . there's been billions upon billions of dollars in military weapons spent. and we

basically reached perhaps a slog, perhaps where we're at that dreaded you gain a little bit. i gain a little bit at the end of the day. not much happens. in other words, you've got a lot of people. i think justifiably saying, wait a minute, this whole military, industrial complex that rachel hit that had a minute ago. where exactly has this proven effective because us engaging in recent military conflicts has not gone well, has damage the u. s. name around the world as damaged that the notion of democracy around the world. and i think again, it is yet another layer to the conversation that says, as you suggested, yes, we can be friends with your with you, but maybe we don't want to walk lock step with you and everything that you choose to do. well reiko, i mean we, we had the, the, the 20th anniversary of the illegal invasion of iraq. and so when you have anthony blank and talking about the virtues of democracy in a ta, crazy. i mean, he's laughed out of the room in most serious places in the world right now and,

and i, and i, and france is a serious country. ok. and it's no longer is, is playing along with this ridiculous shirad. rachel at will you mention shuffled the girl, the farmer, french president. and he famously take the americans out of france in the wake of the 2nd world war. and when let them hang out indefinitely, like they still are in germany, which obviously was a smart thing to do at the time. he also hold france out of nato and they weren't. were he integrated into nato strategic command until for our french president? nicholas was he took over in 2007, and it's been a, i have a disaster ever since. former president jacques chirac was very good. he says, we say so he's a big disciple and follower of shot, the good and you know, he had the foresight and the strategic mindset and knowing history and knowing what the goal position was and what the americans could potentially pull your of into

e kat france brightly so out of that war in iraq that we're not re drive after jump in here, actually have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the crowns visit to china. state. ah need to come to the russian state little narrative, i'd like for them to ignore some scheme div asking him the knock ingles all sudden send up for a coup in the 55 when. okay, so mine is 25 must be the one you're calling about with we

will ban in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machines. the state aunt, rush up to date and school r t spoke mckibben our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube with which you did you did it request with oh, when i was showing wrong one. 03. just don't hold any new world yet to say, proud disdain becomes the advocate. an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground

the welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you we're discussing, the crowns visit to china in the okay, let's go back to anthony in pittsburgh, mac crowns visit to china, it was, it was only weeks before that. you know, china has been on the diplomatic stage as a peacemaker. as a mediator, as a, as a piece, a peacemaker. and, and then the crowns visit with kind of the icing on the cake for a lot of the neocons in the west, particularly for the nato world, going to china. you don't have to agree with its domestic politics or anything like that. but i mean, you know, when it's engaging the world with a ran saudi arabia, syria, a lot of these in practical problems that we've witness over the last decade or much longer. and then you have a 3rd power that comes in and importantly,

doesn't take aside. and this is what, you know, the, the global se said, you know, here, here's an outsider with a whole lot of cloud. no one doubts that. and you know, britain bringing peace and lowering of pensions can be done on the west, doesn't like that. so 1st time in 500 years, a non european western power has come on the stage in such force. this is it's making them very, very anxious mac chrome strip was just an air attend because he doesn't. he's not staying in line. that with the retain them but the, the, on the, on a broader scale. as rachel pointed out, such a major business. you know, what with an american company, went to the chinese company. this is what's bothering leaders in the west. go ahead, anthony. no, you're absolutely right. and then go back to something that we talked about just just a few minutes ago. you know, for the better part of the generation, the u. s. told you what the world is going to be and what and often tacked on to

those agreements was a commitment to democracy, a commitment to the western definition of democracy, the western definition of human rights. and so, and so on, down the line. china is coming in and saying, look, let's talk business. if you can run your domestic politics the way you want, let's talk business. and for especially the developing world, this sounds good because you know, you're not putting in perhaps a cliched example. many of these countries look and they say, you're not putting strings on what we want to do. it's an attractive message to that part of the world. and i think when you look at western europe again and maybe france, you know, maybe maybe it's going to be considered the outlier. and if, if you know, the, the, the, the u. s. for the propaganda effort warms up as it might in this case. but francis basically saying, hold on a minute here, you know, we're supposed to be friends here. but as rachel pointed out very clearly, what exactly is happening in ukraine. however, selfishly,

it might seem for us as french for us, as germans, for us as, as, as the brits, you know, what are we getting out of this beyond just being able to rally the flow or wave the flag and rally the cause. we need to see something more concrete. what china is essentially saying in its dealings with multiple countries is look, whatever your politics are, that's your business. we want to talk business, no strings attached. and in a lot of cases that's working out very well for the chinese and as you're and you're absolutely right and very frustrating for the americans. well, you know, right to the, the problem is with i have with a western foreign policy led by the united states. and it's, it's always, it's kind of fake moral play, which i find very, very irritating because it doesn't solve any problem, lungs. ok? i mean, if you talk proceed democracy, i mean, you know, we can go and have a beer, i guess, and talk about that. but it's not going to change anything. ok, and what,

what is the, what importantly in mac chrome agreed with his chinese counterpart which really irritated the neocons in the west is that, you know, you know, you know, in this conflict you create has to be resolved with every one security interests. ok. everyone, and that's why we have this best. so the 1st place i don't want to go up the path to, to, wildly here. but i mean, that was the whole point is, is that everybody wants security. everyone has to make secured compromises for everyone else's. that's how you go about doing it. and that's again, the chinese approach with it's so called peace plan. it's not really a piece plan. it's basically, you know, laying the lay, lay of the land on how to move forward here. and it's all about security. but if you link it, listen to blink, and it's all about your moral character. rachel? yeah, well, i think all of this moral kind of lecturing,

and i think it's all just really convenient cover for a us be. maybe they think that if enough people hear that everything is really good willed, then they'll think that there's a means to an end. but it, for, for whatever reason, the u. s. in all of its foreign military interventions has never been able to really parlay the chaos into all the good will that they keep proclaiming they can't translate the, the war action to economic stability, action that they seem to, to really want it gets lost in translation somewhere along the way, and yet here we have china, which is just decided, hey, maybe we'll just leave the chaos part. oh and just go in and mason deals. and the only real response that we hear from the west to that is, oh, watch out. it's a debt trap. what is the i m f guys? what's the eye on that one of these i enough loans that absolutely not

a debt trap. right? and china has painstakingly responded to that accusation said, looked no, you know, this, they showed many times over and i'm sure the audience to see examples of this, some in various articles online as well that no, i mean there's, there's no real debt trap involved. and yet nobody in the west actually says, well, you know the ins, which by the way is extending funding to ukraine now. all ready is very quick to get in there and set up a deathtrap. exactly that. and china saying, look, no we're, we're trying things a different way, which really, i mean, it blows my mind that the west with all its brain, suppose a brain power at best and brightest, could come up with that in the 1st place. why we always go through chaos. you get to stability. we just start with stability and business deals. try try that approach and hate him. well, i mean, and you're h o e e, e g,

a lot in love em or hate him. at least he didn't start a new war. i mean, that's a point in it. i'm sorry, it's a boy lou. it's a boy in his corner. really young. right? you're looking for. we have that's it. go ahead, anthony. glad, jumping. keep a point here in mind to 2 presidents and the very beginnings of their term. barack obama went to the middle east and essentially said, look, i apologize for what my predecessor did here in the united states. there was a sizable amount of population, especially on the right, and especially in the military world, but that was side of weakness of buying begin, begins his presidency with a at the 1st real high stakes meeting is with boynkin ants and multiple members of the u. s. government meeting shit, their chinese counterparts in anchorage. it begins with a lecture from blank in that chinese basically turn around and say, oh, you're not gonna, you're not going to to lecture us. that, that sort of lecturing is seen as a strength in the united states. my point being,

if you start playing to domestic audiences as, as the, you know, 2 presidents attempted to do this notion of, of being a peacemaker of trying to say, hey, look, we want to be a better actor than perhaps we've been in the past in too many quarters in this country right now, especially with the divine electorate that we have that seen as being weak and seen as cow tao, into to whatever country or whatever part of the world you want to look at. and yet, the, the ability for the united states to walk in because of its economic powers because of its military might to be able to walk in with a serious, believable, credible message that says, wait a minute. let's try to come up with solutions. the challenge with, with presenting a message that way is that there's so much history in which countries look at and say, yeah, wait a minute, where's well, day i am connecting the rub it to come out. we have an anthony, me, it's, you know,

who blew up the, the north stream pipelines. okay. you know, i mean, the world, this is a story that just continues around the world that you own here in european and america. i mean, i, german media. they couldn't even talk about it, how bad things are rates i want to go back to something you said i think is so very important. and if we compare with the chinese are doing, is that the chinese are not lecturing anyone about, you know, how country should behave and say, why don't we just take a baseline, let's see on the un charter. maybe we should use out of the baseline. okay. that is, that says, smart way of approaching things right now, instead of saying, well, we, you talked to that country and, and we're not supposed to talk to that. i mean, that's like high school. it's like being in the cafeteria and high school. but, you know, mean girls stuff here. i mean, and i'm glad going full circle that micron this i actually saying it was better. it's better for us as a frenchman, to have a better relationship with china. and the americans are not going to be the ones that are be calling the shots. i mean,

he said it will see what the actions are going to be. rachel. yeah, it just blows my mind that he blurred, especially the neocons, which obviously that part isn't surprising. they're upset whenever anybody deviates from their particular agenda, whether it's foreign or domestic. but it blows my mind that he will actually say that what michael is saying here is like he's touching some kind of a taboo 3rd rail in french politics. i mean, that was pretty much the status quo in french politics for decades. and he's just kind of trying to bring things back to. um, i like a more reasonable position because it just seems like um, everybody just really needs to calm down right now. nobody's thinking too clearly on the u. s. is just kind of dragging everyone along on this adventure and europe's riding shotgun. and they haven't really thought this through. and i mean, we've been talking about this all along where it, where the darts on the board, where the winds for europe. and i think the reality is slowly starting to set in.

and it is starting to sober up a bit rate. so i have a question, i have a question for you one minute what we have left to rachel, how much is mc crohn thinking about his legacy? i mean i, i can't really say because i don't know the guy, and i mean there was a no way that we hang our point. the reason i bring it up is that, you know, he's really gone on to a 3rd rail here. okay. i mean, he didn't, you know, he didn't have to do that. he does ride along like everybody else. okay. but he suddenly showed up and said something different. i just have to wonder if he's good . he's worried about how his fee is going to remember him. 30 seconds rachel, go ahead. i could be because this is his last term. so he has, i guess, 5 years left now to kind of make his mark and all that's really in, on the cards for him. so far as than the screen from one crisis to another and he's just been an reactive mode, responding to everything,

whether it's cov ed or the economic sir ukraine and. and i think at this point he might want to put his stamp on something. yeah, i think that could be the case law, but again, i mean michael is very good and i think this is really important to underscore who's very good at what the french call let all men tell. in other words, this is true and also that is and i will let them know that here we have those. that's a perfectly, that's a perfect way to and the program what i think my guess in vancouver and in by watch something that's so different opinions that you won't get anywhere else. look of it please. if you have to stay fun with the cia weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations, choose your fax for you. go ahead. i change and whatever you do, don't want my show stay mainstream because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direction. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the wing thing

ah, during the 2nd world war and nazi occupied, poland valinda was a farming region. today is part of ukraine. between 19431945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army led by stepan bandera. nasa could thousands of polls in valeria, in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the mergers were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property. looted the bellini. a massacre is without doubt, one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. why are ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events? how to modern day ukraine and poland view this tragedy of the past? and why does the memory of aline, us to divide people ah, every night ask myself, why should every country have to be tied to dollars for trade?

why can we trade in our own currency? the brazilian president calls for ditching the dollar and using national currency sponsors. brakes cast an even bigger shadow over g 7 economist piece, but not like this in american state fund. a think tank is on good by saudi arabia restore in size with us regional rivals, syria and iran. the russian foreign minister explains moscow's revised international doctrine which responded to the quote, hybrid war. the west is apparently waging against the multi polar world order.