put the wrong for the discussion. i don't think i will be allowed to ask the question. you hear me hello chelsea. i would like to know how we can say what we say about russia. you know, you shouldn't see more verse be why we got this. see, i asked the vivian goldman want to be here to see more hers. a question that we bought the north stream or not. nobody was even federal worried about a born up north stream. and that was, and you have a state department official talking about banding all russian media from around the world. i mean, where's the outreach against that? or julian, it's not going to be quite frankly know that you have to be away because i'm exposed to talk about if you begin to national of russia, africa, i t for him kicked off in moscow this thursday, gathering government officials on the heads of digital companies. and educational institutions to day sessions have taken place before the main event to summit. this

summer, that highlights cooperation between russia and africa. audrey chico, its director of come ruins, m s, and my company says that russia helps african countries greatly in establishing bed digital security. many countries, unless he gonna have dan, i have that many program of secrecy and that's where i'm coming from the country that one of the guys at ocean will be there and they will meet. they will be not able to do a didn't know that security to pull them festival. we have to be sure that we are making our own tree to be come see, kill, look, for example, in center you can do, but now everything is okay. because russia,

what if lucian knows? what will happen next day? everything didn't go out. many thanks for your company here. we're now see international as always plenty more to be found on our website r t dot com or the back was more at the top with ah ah

ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . french president microns visit to china, has the atlantis is world an neocons of all stripes in an uproar. instead of being a mere cutaway in service of washington, the french president actually stood up for his own country and europe. but his micron a buck short and a day late ah cross sucking microns visit to china, i'm joined by my guess. rachel marson in vancouver. she's a syndicated columnist,

an rti contributor, and in pittsburgh we crossed the anthony mode at the he is an associate professor at robert morris university. i cross like roles or the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, rachel, let me go to you 1st and vancouver. thank you. i know it's an ungodly hour there right now, but, you know, i think you've known me pretty long and i've never been a big fan of the french president mac chrome. but what he had to say in beijing and his flight home, and what he said subsequently from returning from beijing, he's sticking to it and you know what? i agree with a whole lot of what he has to say. my only lament is wise in saying it now and not years before rachel co. i'm sure it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he walked away from china with a major deal for francis airbus, which by the way, is in big competition with america's boeing there and, and do awfully globally. so the deal that he got in china with 160 new commercial vehicles for china made by airbus and the doubling of the assembly and production

in china for air bus. so i'm sure that did absolutely nothing ways, opinion, but me good to keep that relationship with china, particularly in fact that europe has gotten nothing but grief from the united states, even though it's gone along with everything in terms of washington to denver and ukraine, for example, if you're cut off sheep russia. yes. which fueled it's, it's whole economy essentially an industrial base. and what did it get in return? really expensive. l n g liquefied natural gas from washington at 3 to 4 times the price at per mack holes own words. and he went over there to washington and talked about all this to makers last december and even said, look, you have this new biden's, inflation reduction act as well, which is really protectionist against european industry. so that's going to harm us . the expense of energy are sending us now in lieu of the rushing. yes, that we cut ourselves off to please you guys is killing us. so he goes over to

china and suddenly it started to look pretty good guy, a few darts on the board economically speaking at a time when inflation is skyrocketing in europe and they're facing all these other problems because of the u. s. and it's agenda and the blow back from that. so suddenly in light of all that he, he is suddenly miraculously fitting the praises of strategic european autonomy. i think that's the context we're looking for. well, you know, that's the term i wanted to bring that up in the program and it's the strategic can tell who anthony, what does that mean to you? because my criticism of a crown is that he does say the right thing some times. but he doesn't really always act in the same way. now rachel brought up the of this trade deal that he got with airbus, that that's really good for france here. but there's, i don't see a whole lot of consistency here. he's very, very on board with washington's agenda, and his rachel is just shown us here. i don't see what the french and the europeans

really get out of it, but they keep, continue to do it. as a matter of fact, european leads compete for washington's favor. for what return i don't know, but so what in your mind, what does this strategic autonomy mean because it's just a phrase to me go ahead anthony. i agree. i mean, i think on one level, i see it is just a phrase, but on another i wonder if there's a recognition that, you know, let's face for the better part of a generation. it was a unipolar world. the united states basically said, here's how it's going to go and either gotten line or you face the consequences, which china ascending now, especially as an economic power becoming more and more a player on the, on the military stage as well. the belt road initiative perhaps being the signature economic initiative. i think suddenly you're looking at countries, particularly in europe that are saying, well wait a minute. do we have to play the u. s. lead game into perpetuity, or is there another option for us out there?

and at the same time, and i don't know if the timing perhaps is coincidental, but don't forget to you've got that latest set of leaked documents in the united states, which although might seem tangential to the conversation, is another example. and microns certainly remembers this as certainly, if you were going to talk to angle of merkel, she tell you the same thing in the u. s. spies on its allies. that something that when it happens, the americans refused to really take, excuse me, take a for, acknowledge it, and try and said to, to, to, to deflect criticism the other way. so i wonder if what's basically happened. the europeans are saying, hey, wait a minute, we can deal with you over here, but we can also do you over here. yeah, well and rachel, it's something that it hasn't been mentioned in all the noise, but particularly political seems always be ahead of everyone on this. i don't think that's the coincidence. okay. i think i think they play a very strategic role in channeling information. but they're, you know,

the criticism of crown, but, you know, at the same time, the blowing up the door, the stream pipelines, i mean, i think some people from europe thing, these americans, they're, they're more than crazy and they don't care about out here at a more on a more sober note, rachel, i mean, do you think that there's a sense of causality here? is that what is ukraine? i'm sorry. what is france getting out of this whole endeavor and ukraine and i'll be americans are talking about taiwan. i think that, you know, mac chrome is saying, look, you know, we, we know this one, we have no say and what's going on. the washington doesn't want to negotiate. it ended this conflict and they're in there brewing up something in taiwan. i think mccall the saying, look, we went with you on ukraine, we're not getting the thing out of it. we're getting negative returns actually. and now you want to bring us in to take on a made our major trading partner here. maybe it's just, you know, out of desperation, is that because over the last year and a half, what has the us done for europe? what is us done for france? i can't list one thing, rachel. yeah. well,

i think france has been looking to see what it can get out of this whole conflict since the beginning of the conflict. if anything, in the same way that washington has found the way to ramp up its military industrial complex with weapons for ukraine as a result of, you know, being able to justify more spending in the defense budget and more profits for shareholders. of those big, big companies in the us military industrial complex. so recently france is kind of you didn't do that and they said well, okay, well the you is now a lot, a 2000000000 euros for weapons for ukraine. and there's a bit of cat fight happening right now within the e u. and it's kind of come to ahead this week and it's between brass, which is arguing we should be able to use bass funding for your ukrainian weapons in the e to produce done in the you. and france obviously would be a huge beneficiary of that. since it is the big weapons production above producer

in europe, and on the other hand, you have the prime minister mathias more wiki in poland. he saying, no, we shouldn't be able to use that in the ear. it should be able to be used everywhere. well, that's hardly surprising because he's basically acting as the big advocate for washington right now within the e u and is oh, is that they beneficiary of american weapons. so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that he might just be advocating in favor of spending e, you money on the military, industrial complex in the u. s. that france is trying to get something out of that . because really, as you mentioned, peter france really hasn't gotten anything out of this whole thing so far. still a anthony, you know, or if there is a french politician in history that i'm a great admirer of. and it's charles de gaulle, i think he was a great, a great year, a great for french president, a great european leader,

and an inspiration all the way to this day. because he did say, when talking about the united states, he said, allied, but not aligned. i think he's being broken right still again. okay. and this is what i think the crone is actually crying to get out and you know what the, what the, the global south is saying exactly. i think we could align with you, but we're, you know, we could be allied with, we could agree with this and that this principle era. but no, we don't have to get aligned with you and limit our options. and i think this is the macro, to sending a shockwave out there to people that know that this is a possibility. and it's actually being acted upon by the majority of the countries in the world. anthony, i agree with, you know, and, and there's another issue about that that this whole military conversation that i don't think we can ignore. and that is that even the most staunch supporters of the iraq war from 2 decades ago, we'll have to admit it did not end. well,

even if you were the most staunch supporter of the u. s. military effort in afghanistan, you have to admit it did not end well. and so as a result, now you look at what's going on in ukraine, you're from 15 months into this military conflict. there's been billions upon billions of dollars in military weapons spent. and we basically reached perhaps a slog perhaps where we're at that dreaded you gain a little bit. i gain a little bit at the end of the day. not much happens. in other words, you've got a lot of people, i think, just to finally saying, wait a minute, this whole military, industrial complex that rachel hit that had a minute ago. where exactly has this proven effective because us engaging in recent military conflicts has not gone well. has damaged the, the u. s. name around the world as damage that the notion of democracy around the world. and i think again, it is yet another layer to the conversation that says, as you suggested, yes, we can be friend with, with your, with you,

but maybe we don't want to walk lock step with you and everything that you choose to do. well, rachel, i mean we, we had the, the, the 20th anniversary of the illegal invasion of iraq. and so when you have anthony blank and talking about the virtues of democracy in a talkers the, i mean, he's laughed out of the room in most serious places in the world right now. and, and that, you know, and in france is a serious country. ok. and it's no longer is, is playing along with this ridiculous shirad. rachel at will you mention shuffled the girl, the farmer, french president. and he famously take the americans out of france in the wake of the 2nd world war. and when let them hang out indefinitely, like they still are in germany, which obviously was a smart thing to do at the time. he also hold france out of nato and they weren't. were he integrated into nato strategic command until from a french president? nicholas ac was he took over in 2007 and it's been a i have

a disaster ever since former president jacques chirac was very good. he says we say so he's a big disciple and follower of shot, the good. and, you know, he had the foresight and the strategic mindset and knowing history and knowing what the goal position was and what the americans could potentially pull your of into e kat france, rightly so, i'd have that warrant iraq that were driveway. dr. mccoy and i have to jump in here, actually have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion. lemme crohn's visit to china's name. ah, ah, i am exemptions and i'm here to plead with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show. certainly why watch something that's so different. my list of opinions

that you won't get anywhere else. look of it please. if you have the state department to see i weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations, choose your fax for you. go ahead by change and whatever you do, don't want my show stay mainstream because i'm probably gonna make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the wing thing. the welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. to remind you we're discussing microns visit to china. who's okay, let's go back to anthony in pittsburgh, mac crowns visit to china. it was, it was only weeks before that. you know, china has been on the diplomatic stage as a peacemaker as a mediator, as a, as a piece, a piece maker. and,

and then the crowns visit with kind of the icing on the cake for a lot of the neocons in the west, particularly for the nato world in china. you don't have to agree with it's domestic politics or anything like that. but i mean, you know, when it's engaging the world with the ran saudi arabia, syria, a lot of these in practical problems that we've witness over the last decade or much longer. and then you have a 3rd power that comes in and importantly, doesn't take aside. and this is what, you know, the, the global south is saying that, you know, here, here's an outsider with a whole lot of cloud. no one doubts that. and you know, britain bringing peace and lowering of tensions can be done. the west doesn't like that. so 1st time in 500 years, a non european western power is come on the stage in such force. this is it's making them very, very anxious. mccrory trip was just an air attend because he doesn't. he's not staying in line. that with the rotate to them with the on the, on

a broader scale. as rachel pointed out, such a major business deal was with an american company with the chinese company. this is what's bothering leaders in the west. go ahead, anthony. no, you're absolutely right. and then i go back to something that we talked about just just a few minutes ago, you know, for the better part of a generation, the u. s. told you what the world is going to be and what and often tacked on to those agreements was a commitment to democracy, a commitment to the western definition of democracy, the western definition of human rights. and so, and so on, down the line. china is coming in and saying, look, let's talk business. if you can run your domestic politics the way you want, let's talk business. and for especially the developing world, this sounds good because, you know, you're not putting it in perhaps a cliched example. many of these countries look and they say, you're not putting strings on what we want to do. it's an attractive message to that part of the world. and i think when you look at western europe again and maybe

france, you know, maybe maybe it's going to be considered the outlier. and if, if you know, the, the, the, the u. s. for the propaganda effort warms up as it might in this case. but francis basically saying, hold on a minute here, you know, we're supposed to be friends here. but as rachel pointed out very clearly, what exactly is happening in ukraine. however, selfishly it might seem for us as french for us, as germans, for us as, as, as the brits, you know, what are we getting out of this beyond just being able to rally the float or wave the flag and rally the cause? we need to see something more concrete. what china is essentially saying it's dealing with multiple countries is look, whatever your politics are, that's your business. we want to talk business, no strings attached, and it a lot of cases that's working out very well for the chinese and as you're and you're absolutely right and very frustrating for the americans. well, you know,

right to the, the problem is with i have with western foreign policy led by the united states. and it's, it's always, it's kind of fake moral play, which i find very, very irritating because it doesn't solve any problem lines. ok, i mean, you talk graphy democracy. i mean, you know, we can go and have a beer, i guess, and talk about that. but it's not going to change anything. ok. and what, what the, what importantly in mich, chrome agreed with his chinese counterpart, which really irritated the neocons in the west, is that, you know, you know, you know, in this conflict, ukraine has to be resolved with everyone security interests. ok, everyone. and that's why we have this best. so the 1st place i don't want to go up the path to, to, wildly here. but i mean, that was the whole point is, is that everybody wants security. everyone has to make secured compromises for everyone else's. that's how you go about doing it. and that's again, the chinese approach with its so called peace plan. it's not really

a peace plan. it's basically, you know, laying the lay, lay of the land on how to move forward here. and it's all about security. but if you link it, listen to blink, and it's all about your moral character. rachel? yeah, well, i think all of this moral kind of lecturing, and i think it's all just really convenient cover for a us. if he, maybe they think that if enough people hear that everything is really good weld, then they'll think that there's a means to an end. but it, for, for whatever reason, the u. s. in all of its foreign military interventions has never been able to really parlay the chaos into all the good will that they keep proclaiming they can't translate the, the war action to economic stability, action that they seem to, to really want it gets lost in translation somewhere along the way,

and yet here we have china, which is just decided, hey, maybe we'll just leave the chaos part. oh and just go in and mason deals. and the only real response that we hear from the west to that is oh, watch. oh, it's a debt trap. what is the i m f guys? what's the eye on that one of these i enough loans that absolutely not a debt tribe. right? and china's painstakingly responded to that accusation said, looked no, you know, this, they showed many times over. and i'm sure the audience to see examples of this, some in various articles online as well that no, i mean there's, there's no real debt trap involved. and yet nobody in the west actually says, well, you know the ins, which by the way is extending funding to ukraine now already is very quick to get in there and set up by that tra exactly that. and china saying, look, know we're, we're trying things a different way, which really, i mean,

it blows my mind that the west with all its brain, suppose a brain power at best and brightest, couldn't come up with that in the 1st place. why we always go through chaos, you get to stability, we just start with stability and business deals. try try that approach and hate him . well, i mean, and your h o e e e gave lightly love him or hate him, at least he didn't start a new war. i mean, that's a point in it. i'm sorry, at some point because it's a boy in his corner. it really of right. you're looking for we of that's it. go ahead. anthony. glad, jumping. keep a point here in mind to, you know, 2 presidents and the very beginnings of their term. barack obama went to the middle east and essentially said, look, i apologize for what my predecessor did here in the united states. there was a sizable amount of population, especially on the right, and especially in the military world. but that was side of weakness of buying begin,

begins his presidency with a at the 1st real high stakes meeting is with boynkin ants and multiple members of the u. s. government meeting shit, their chinese counterparts in anchorage. it begins with a lecture from blank in that chinese basically turn around and say, oh, you're not gonna, you're not going to, to lecture us that, that sort of lecturing is seen as a strength in the united states. my point being, if you start playing to domestic audiences as, as the, you know, to president attempted to do this notion of, of being a peacemaker of trying to say, hey, look, we want to be a better actor than perhaps we've been in the past too many quarters in this country right now, especially with the divine electorate that we have that seen as being weak and seen as cow town to, to whatever country or whatever part of the world you want to look at. and yet, the, the ability for the united states to walk in because of its economic powers because

of its military might to be able to walk in with a serious, believable, credible message that says, wait a minute. let's try to come up with solutions. the challenge with, with presenting a message that way is that there's so much history in which countries look at and say, yeah, wait a minute, where's the robot come out? yeah. but anthony, who, you know, who blew up the, the, the north stream pipelines. okay. you know, i mean, the world story that just continues around the world that you all hear it in european, in america, german media probably even talk about how bad things are rates i want to go back to something you said i think is so very important. and if we compare with the chinese are doing that, chinese are not lecturing anyone anybody, you know, how country should behave and say, why don't we just take a baseline, lead c, r u n charter. maybe we can use that as a baseline. ok. that is, that 1st smart way of approaching things right now, instead of saying, well,

when you talk to that country and, and we're not supposed to talk to them. i mean, that's like high school. it's like being in the cafeteria and high school. but, you know, mean girls stuff here. i mean, and i'm glad going full circle that mccrory is actually saying it was better. you know, it's better for us as a frenchman, to have a better relationship with china. and the americans are not going to be the ones that are be calling the shots. i mean, he said it will see what the actions are going to be. rachel, just blows my mind that people are especially the neocons, which obviously that part isn't surprising. they're upset whenever anybody deviates from their particular agenda, whether it's foreign or domestic. but it blows on mind that people actually think that what michael is saying here is like he's touching some kind of a taboo. 3rd rail in french politics. i mean, that was pretty much the status quo in french politics for decades. and he's just kind of trying to bring things back to

a more reasonable position because it just seems like everybody just really needs to calm down right now. nobody's thinking too clearly. the us is just kind of driving everyone along on this adventure and rep's riding shotgun, and they haven't really thought this through. and i mean, we've been talking about this all along, where it, where the darks on the board, where the winds for europe. and i think the reality is slowly starting to set in. and it is starting to silver up a bit. rachel, i have a question. i have a question for you one minute we have left to rachel, how much is mc chrome thinking about his legacy? i mean i, i can't really say because i don't know the guy. and i mean, there was a know why was that we and your point, the reason i bring it up is that, you know, he's really gone on to a 3rd rail here. okay. i mean, even, you know, he didn't have to do that. he could just ride along like everybody else. okay. but he suddenly sat up and said something different. i just have to wonder if he's good

. he's worried about how history is going to remember him. 30 seconds. rachel? go ahead. i could be because this is his last term. so he has, i guess, 5 years left now to kind of make his mark and all that's really been on the cards for him. so far as been these korean, from one crisis to another. and he's just been in a reactive mode responding to everything, whether it's co vetter or the economics or ukraine and, and i think in this fight he might want to put his stamp on something. yeah, i think that could be the case law. but again, i mean michael is very good and i think this is really important to underscore who's very good at what the french call let all men tell. in other words, this is true and also that is and back. but you know, it, which value i would like them about here. we have those. that's a perfectly, that's a perfect way to end the program. or i think my guess in vancouver and in pittsburgh when i think our viewers are watching us here at our dc an exam,

remember across luckily ah ah, during the 2nd world war and nazi occupied, poland, virginia was a farming region. 35 members of the ukrainian past china. welcome to brazil, as president and the ministers. the delegates say that country is free to choose its trade partners without any fear of buying from a ship. as both china and brazil turned to local currencies. both trade deals instead of the us dollar. ricks member states promot financial, multiple charities, shifting away from the gemini of the greenback. we discussed his development with all guests. we have been trading with gentlemen now with the indian currency and that is no longer the.