and you are tuned into modus operandi. so finland has joined nato, expanding the military blocks some 800 miles along russia, borders fighting article 10 of the groups founding treaty of an open door policy. this marks the 11th time since the fall of the soviet union back in 1992 that the block created to contain it has grown. so who is the real agitator here? we'll discuss it with a geopolitical expert. next. all right, let's get into the ammo. the me, it's twitter official. nato has announced the accession of finland into the so called defensive alliance, leaving behind their friend sweden, who initially was set to join in a 2 for one special. for nearly 75 years, finland had an image of neutrality following the f. c. m. a treaty of 948. that

would be of course, friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance. treaty signed between them and then the soviet union that was extended 3 times the thins and russians signed a new cooperation agreement after the 1992 followed the soviet union. so for the better part of the 20th century, the russo finish relationship was peaceful. this despite the fins back tracking on a deal made during the so called winter war of 939 to 40 after finland. in fact help the nazis from 1941 to 1900. 44. by allowing hitler's troops to transit through finland. and of course, some fins also took up arms against the soviets side by side with the nazis by 1944 . the soviets beat back the finish. support of nazis. and an armistice was struck between the neighbors. so since 940 the f. c. m a treaty,

there has been no political or physical fighting between the 2. fast forward now to 2023, despite no hospitality for nearly a century. russia's northern neighbor suddenly felt threatened and join nato. so here we are. joining us to discuss and perhaps explain all of this is professor of political science at the university of oslo in norway geo political analyst and author. his latest book is called, russo phobia propaganda. and international politics. professor glen decent is with us professor. thank you so much for joining us. my pleasure. thanks for inviting me . so finland has just made a successful bid to join nato, their accession to the block, completed april 4th. first. can you tell us why finland seemingly out of the blue wish to join nato? i mean, were they facing some sort of imminent threat by anyone,

specifically russia with whom they share this very porous border? well, i think that obviously a lot of things that changed was rush us in nation of ukraine, which spoke many and again, the media of course, was also consumed by this. so there was a huge and foss pushed towards joining nato. and because traditionally, finland has not had the political support for joining nato among the public. but again, because of the war and the sentiment changed quickly and, and i would get a key problem was that the, instead of sparking a recent, a reasonable debate given that, you know, the neighboring country went to war. and i think it was more emotional taking over because i haven't seen any sensible debate. they're about to what extent joining nato would actually help their security. and again,

it's not just that sometimes insecurity less is more. in other words, if you bring in america weapon systems, for example, or become part of this huge military lines. now 31 states an anti rush military alliance is gonna cause our reaction from russia and will this then undermine your security enough so. so there wasn't really any debate is just as we've fail, greater threatening from russia. let's do a nato, and very little discussion around the pros and cons in terms of their own security . and again, i think what's been missing is sir oldest focused. now that, you know there's a war in europe, we're with russia and, but no one really has thought much about peace. in other words, how can we figure out how we're all going to live on the same continent instead, it's just less ourselves. but send weapons. let's join nato and last would also say this also had to, i think there was

a deliberate effort of going into this very quickly. again, the one in finland are suggesting that cross myself talk them about because of the huge security concerns now in europe and, and the sentiments i've changed to us. i think there was an interest in the government to move while the public was on their side. it's no secret that often the political leaders and military leaders would like to be in nato and, you know, but still didn't get the public list. and so i think there's an interest there to get inside nato before the war is over. so little risk loosing, the public's so just so we're clear, there was no imminent threat to them by russia. and i should note normally the nato accession process, historically it takes years. so why did this one happen so quickly? well, of, well they're considered to be a lot of the sessions previously had was with countries which used to be part of

their worth of packed or actually soviet republic, former republics of the soviet union. so there have been that will seen us needing more work. however, it says 4 cylinder, sweet and i've been cooperating with nato for so long that a lot of the interoperability has been already aligned. so it was easier, but also it was a huge interest to have this concord joined even, you know, for a long for a long time now. so and, but of course, you know, there was an opportunist going on and there's a war. and now it's a good chance to expand the military lines during conflicts in human nature. people seek internal and solidarity in order to face often external threats. so this is a nice time to, you know, call for expanding the military, expanding military alliances. so it's just not in the rush to get this done quickly

before and alone before the war might come down or piece might emerge so. so this may be a chicken or egg question, but i'm going to ask it anyway. is it russian aggression or posturing of some sort on the global stage that causes these nations to want to join nato? or is it the expansion of nato some nearly 20 times now? 11, just since the fall of the soviet union, technically collapsing in 1991. that is provocative. that's creating, you know, this self fulfilling prophecy if you, well, well, i guess as many reasons why states who want to join nato, one of them is that the united states pays for a lot of the security. so it's as soon as be giving our cloud security guarantees the while paying little so it's usually consider a bit of a pre call in which do not have states provide space for them. the security.

meanwhile, the lear p and sir, and there are some other political independence, so we follow america leadership and in return, america pays for our security. but i would say that's whether or not it's russian aggression or well what, what causes this, i think, and it, i'm avoided list becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, which is why it's a good expression. because nato, after the cold war, when it started expanding, russia was there week and this time so it was considered by many even james make a point to the south. and madeline albright, they both use the word insurance guarantee because in case they would have counseling with ross in the future, at least you have would have an all powerful nato arm to the teeth next to russia so they wouldn't dare to do anything. and then of course, if i miss, if you start to expand the military block and pushing the military infrastructure close, close to the border and russia will have a reaction. this was the george tenants argument,

actually in 1998. he was interviewed in the new york times, and he actually warned that and now the need to expand. so some point russia will react negatively like integrate power will do a few put military along as mortars. much like us would do it in a rush of places military in mexico. anyways. see his arguments was at some point, russia will react negatively. and when this happened, and this is to, will paraphrase him or caught him was, at this point, the nato expand expansionist will x? well, the proponents are made to expansionism. would then argue that this is just the way russia aggressive, the thing that we expand the nato. so it's, it's an interesting logic. and this is why also we had this weird relationship with russia ever since we began expanding, made on one hand, it's a deterrent against russia. on the same time, we're trying to assure russia, it's not against you. and, and it has to really matter what russia do, really,

because if it made expanse and russia doesn't object well, then it's not a threat. and you know, there's no problem to expire and to expand buddies. nevo, sorry, fresh i would object. well, that's very aggressive thing to do if it starts to resist or find back. and now we have to expand that to contain russia. so it's, it's a difficult procession. we kind of put the russians and they cos we, we essentially said that nato is just about the mocker. see, and anyone who would oppose expanding it would therefore me, i'm to democrat, it could be anti civilizational. so essentially told the russians, we gave them a dilemma. we're going to expand this block up there border either. it's still under nothing or we will campaign you so and yes so, so, so feeling prophecy, i think this is right for to use as we say in the states professor. damned if you do and damned if you don't are coming up next. new nord

stream the you, when we'll talk proliferation and investigations when we return with professor glen deezen said type m o will be right back. i oh i i name it wasn't super food warming in this. it will be a good call yet. no blessed sauce. that was to be fish. she did so do you know the pin? i'm going to let us, but that's our growth net that was on the left in the one on the desktop or joseph. this alex is launching, you know, and i was unable, it says that it will be almost in my new stuff there to where to get

continue listening. the report. yes. so it's just shortly. thank you so much for nice dollars on a box which you put in a sickly and a little boys. even lynch sits going out of the sky, jenna assistance images, as i say on the reason i ask you is, i'm so political from mon, i southern to us on the 3rd, the english american love so much so much, nathan, of thought to see that she is a, you know, the running up to you after they were the zebra. not on a much fun and run away. nope. me

the the, the, the me welcome back to the ammo. i'm manila chan. so with finland, expanding, benito footprint around russia, and no doubt nato weapons will proliferate another 800 miles. meanwhile, russia is making moves of its own with tactical nukes moving into velo ruth, professor glen deezen, author of the book rousseau, phobia propaganda, and international politics is back with us. so professor, recently vladimir putin made a deal with neighboring bell roofs to build a storage facility for rushes, tactical nukes, and exchange for modernizing bella versus warplanes. expected completion for this site will be this summer. actually, this will be near the bell russian western border. the exact location is classified,

latvia, lithuania and poland are very upset by this. they are all nato countries. but could this latest push to bring in finland and maybe someday sweden into the block. be the impetus as to why russian tactical nukes are moving into bella. ruth, well, it could be, i mean there was an interview with the former secretary general, nato doesn't listen. and he was arguing in the future for conflict. the rest conflict, nato with russia, had the benefit of having sweden and finland into matters who could put a full blockade on on saint petersburg and denied them complete access into the baltic sea. so obviously, this is the problem we imagine if it was the other way around this, china, russia was mounting. their military in mexico or canada, united states would, would react them at the end of the day. it wouldn't benefits in one security. and

this is the case here as well. so obviously i think that the finland could have something to do with this office of the war. and ukraine has something to do with it. and but overall, i think that's for the russian to stay. and then decided that the, all the so called rules space international order, where this one set the rules for the united states and another set of rules for russia, that it would be no longer acceptable. let's keep in mind that the non per liberation treaty, the main treaty to address the proliferation of nuclear weapons. is there a specific the 2 articles make it clear? a nuclear weapon states are not allowed to place nuclear weapons into non nuclear weapon states. but us, we know in europe do not a states us place this nuclear weapons in belgium, germany netherlands is only a turkey. so, so we're nato, we're in violation of this most united states and it's 5 europe and countries for a while for hosting the missiles as well so. so this is problematic. rush,

us descent is minute time, so we're like, you know, maybe should abide by the st. is all non proliferation, and now we see russia effectively placing its, its own nuclear weapon stem in mellows and why again, it can be many aspect anything from the war to finland, to the nato's reluctance to live by the end. nonproliferation treaty might, could also be the reason why melody says more open to this. now is because this will entail some surrender of sovereignty. at some level, at least, it's because the details of fairness, nato could have some aggression against villainous, especially poland, could attack. this is the fear because no one would attack russia directly. this would be, will lead to nuclear war. but the packing bellicose might be a natural middle

step from this collision letter. so this could be, but again, i'm speculating. the one in moscow is telling me what the main motivation is, of course. now let's not forget under us president donald trump, he withdrew the us from the i n f treaty as well. so that causes quite a danger for the rest of the world. switching gears here, professor, let's talk a little bit about the recent un vote on nord stream. the russian delegation spearheaded a vote at the united nations to conduct a joint investigation into who was responsible for destroying this multi 1000000000, multi, multi $1000000000.00, multi national project. only 3 votes in favor, russia, china, and brazil, all the other 12 security council members, abstained, rushes un ambassador by ceiling. a ben via said this ahead of the of the vote. he said, quote, without an objective and transparent international investigation,

the truth will not be uncovered as to what happened. so the draft resolution seemed necessary. i would say, given that russia was barred from conducting their own investigation, into the blast and their own pipeline. how do you read this vote and what happened there at the u. n. s. c? well, it's not many ways to read it. really. it's the west does not want an independent investigation into the taco nordstrom. it's and i know that the anthony lincoln came out and said, well, the only reason why russia is doing this is because it's because they want to try to criminal to the united states to make it look guilty about that. you don't have an evidence, but again, this is the whole point. you have to have the investigation to have evidence. and i think it's quite extraordinary that the not just us, but all it's the are the partners as well. i do not really want to know how many

independent instigation into this. i think it's about the referred to us stuck on syndrome, but it is, it is quite strange. again, i don't think because this is so politicized. someone attacked the main as some of the key european energy infrastructure, a causing economic devastation to europe, but also an environmental disaster. and. and again, even the united states now said that the, it's up, the russians are behind this. they will try to throw the ukrainians on the bus. but anyways, if someone has done this, is shirley, this is important enough to, to investigate and the, and the, well, i would agree, i don't think any names, any investigation now, either by the natal side or by the rational side would be credible. you need to have in independence investigation. and keep in mind that the early on the sweden

did an investigation that they didn't want to share the results than with denmark and germany, which are their nathan ls in the site, the national security. so something obviously has happened here because someone attacked this pipelines and it's a good chance that this is natal country, packing and other nato countries. and so you would think an investigation would be of interest. but i think that to control now it's important. we have to keep natal solidarity, which means we cannot know who would, who did this, and just caught an article by washington post only a few days ago. it said that the come, it said that it was something like a leaders slow the theme, no benefits from digging to this place and finding an uncomfortable answer. so this is the, this was, this is the sentiment now in nato. we, i think we know who did this and, but we did not want to have it confirmed because then this will be very

uncomfortable. it would so divisions within the military lines. and we contact divisions. now we have to all march in the same tune and stuff together against russia. according to cy hirsch's article, about how northridge was destroyed, this would have required approval, or at least acceptance or understanding by denmark. given that the blast site was just off the coast of foreign home island, which is danish territory, not to mention. according to hirsch's reporting, the bombs were planted during the nato exercises called bolt ox. denmark is a nato member. up until this point, what was denmark's relationship with russia, and now that denmark has rejected russia's request to conduct their own investigation. where does that put their future relations? well, the trust is completely gone, obviously. now that goes both ways, obviously the then marcus lost a lot of trust in russia,

but also russia has lost all trust now in, in denmark, because again, some on the attack, the energy infrastructure built by the russians. and the, as you said before, i think everyone knows who stunned it now and that they are now seeing to effectively obstruct an investigation in this kind of thing. so usually make you sound like a conspiracy if there is. but there are no other explanations at this point anymore . so so i think here, this is just going to continue to damage the relationship between denmark and rush, obviously. but also, i think over over a long term, i think this will also cause some divisions within, within the ranks of nato. because as i mentioned before at the moment, and we don't want to find out who actually attacked us because we're afraid that this could create divisions or this is only because we need to have sol barrett.

and now, because we're in the fact the war against, with russia now, once this war comes to an end, there's more chance that we're going to start looking around at the, you know, who, who attacked us. because for, for germany, this is quite devastating. they are the leading economy in europe, they're the locomotive driving forward. and a lot of their industries are quite energy intensive and all of these industries and faltering and again it's industries can't be competitive anymore. and that's what expensive energy has to buy from the united states. so, so the main driving force of the economy has now well gone off the rails and, and the taking rest of europe with it. so once, once everything started going wrong with the economy and when the war is over, i think we're going to start to look among each other for him to blame. so at least that's my prediction. russia, china, brazil, the yes boats at the u. n. s. c,

all members of bricks. is there any coincidence their nose? no, not really. they are well, they're aligning their economies more and more, and also having more security or military cooperation. and at the same time, we see that the bricks country are harmonizing their, their, their, their policies and political statements to a greater degree. so again, their biggest countries are also members of the shanghai corporation organizations, not brazil, of course. and and, but it shouldn't be surprised, but i'm more, i'm more surprised to be honest about the, the, the soul doroty who, who with, with, with in the west of more. because i think for countries on the outside it's not just the bricks country. i think the rest of the world's looking at this and thinking, well what other explanations could there be? keep in mind that the united states, they used to sanction the european allies, participated in building the nor stream project. and you had their reports like from round corporation,

which is us think bank in order in 2019 by the us army. and one of the steps to weakening russia was the 1st step was to stop the north stream to you had the leading us politicians from mike from pale from cotton and cruz all of them saying even j solomon though, saying we had to stop nordstrom to initials before us and that we had joe biden said, we're going to bring it to an end victoria newland before before. and after the pac saying this was a good thing that this was blown up in. so it's just been over and over again. when we see that, well, the united states threatening to destroy it. and then of course, after they destroy this, we have people like new blink in no uncertain term, arguing that the destruction, nor stream of a tremendous opportunity. so, and in europe, we're not even allowed to say that the u. s. will benefit from its destruction even

as you know, they're celebrating washington. we can't even say, because this will be this information. instead, we're claiming, you know, this is the rational playbook and the, and this is, this is a situation where, so i think when the rest of the world looks at this, what, well, what other conclusion can they reach? and again i, i think, i think in the unity now within, within the rich countries it's quite, it's quite the natural not only because they're aligning the policies, but also if you're standing on the outside looking in, i'm not sure how else you could, you could interpret this indeed, i would just add one last thing to some extent the united states have already admitted to some extent that has been lying. because after seymour hersh published a story in which she claim the united states with the support of norway attacked the pipeline. in the united states responded by, well, 1st of all,

thing that there was probably a crane in group behind it, which doesn't make any sense at all. but also washington said that it's intelligence community knew that it was russia, but they wanted to protect the ukrainians. so this is quite a fascinating cause. now, washington, admitting that he was lying when he was saying that was probably russia pointing towards russia and even risking war with russia. so this is like this public and the wider world. and so i'm not, i'm not surprised by the fact that the bricks countries are coming together because, and that is simply isn't the handheld or explanation anymore than the united states attacks the european energy infrastructure. so i see this alignment being quite natural professor and glen deason at the university of oslo in norway. thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us. that is going to do it for this episode of modus operandi the show that dig deep into foreign policy and current affairs. i'm

your host manila chan. thank you so much for turning in. we'll see you again next time to figure out the ammo. ah ah, rental had now been good along my bedroom number then. oh no. those are those did you do not actually show switch him you flu. so 2 things to lose your clue to just the yes you are you you if good,

let's go to gerald. nobody was, you know, ah, during these between 19431945 members of the ukranian insurgent army led by stepan. bandera. nasa could thousands of poles and bohemia in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the merges were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted. valinda massa is without doubt one of the bloodiest ab, so in polish ukrainian history. why all ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events? how to modern day ukraine and poland view this tragedy of the past? and why does the memory of belinda, us do divide people ah

ah, we will work closely together as the un within the framework of the security council where brazil is currently a non permanent member. brazil and india should become permanent. members of the un security council has the message from russian foreign minister again love ralph, as he saw it's a 5 day trip across last new america. as a rod announced the new era for the middle east, the push for peace in yemen, and he's in the face with the latest prisoners. but the red cross, the crisis from the war torn country is being largely ignored by the international community p. m. and he's not making the headlines.