when parents or legal representatives are volunteers with proxies from close relatives come to pick up children. some of them tell about the preparations that ukrainian armed forces put them through before they are able to leave and pick up their children. they are instructed on arrival to say terrible things happening in those camps and to collect all the contacts. this was exposed by our law enforcement agencies. we have 8 children in crimea right now. ukrainian children or staff started searching for their relatives in january when there were 400 children, there are office tried to call their relatives to find out the reason for the delay . you see volunteer to come to get these children are not allowed to contact official russian authorities including my office. so we came up with a complicated plan and we sent our volunteers to negotiate. it's volunteers from russia and from ukraine, and we support and assist them from the outside. by the time we got involved, some of the children's relatives had already gone to you countries. now most of the

relatives of those 8 children are in new countries, which of course complicates their re union. that's all for now. we're here to check out our t v dot com for all the latest breaking news. and at days we'll see you next time. ah ah ah

ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the term strategic autonomy sounds good. the word strategic conjures up a sense of importance and autonomy presents a sense of independence. but when you consider the french president using this term, that we are forced to wonder if he is a serious person, after all, europe is no longer strategic or autonomy this cross sucking strategic autonomy. i'm joined by my guess all for desires in geneva . he is an author and a former you an independent expert on international order in paris. we have john laughlin. he is a university lecture in history and political philosophy. and in washington we cross matthew crossed and he is director of academic transformation about we state university high gentleman cross sack rose in effect. that means you can jump any

time you want. and i always appreciate, john, let me go to you in paris. i mean, you and i have known each other knew, but on this program, as long as the french president micron has been in office and you and i have pointed out a number of times that enter dig gall trying to fight its way out of him. sometimes he gets to gall curious, but i don't take him seriously anymore because even when he says those kind of things the next day says something different, i think that is really emblematic of europe's place in the world today. go ahead, john. yeah, i mean, the big difference between a menu and michael and charles to go live there are so many of them is that all would never have talked about europe. european autonomy to gold talked about french autonomy and he understood that autonomy can only be national and that to any european dimension by definition was incompatible with autonomy. my colon doesn't

understand that my call thinks that there can be such a thing as european autonomy. he believe all he occasionally, as you said in your question, p t occasionally says that. but actually there are contradictions in terms. and we saw this, for instance, when he went to china because he took it from the line with him that was supposed to show that he was coming as a representative, representative of europe. but between him and also from the lion, there are very substantial differences. she is much more atlantis just, i mean, he's pretty atlantis this, but she's even more so. so what him taking her to china showed was that europe ah

ah, welcome back across that were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. tremendous . we're discussing strategic autonomy okay, let's go back to matthew in, in washington, matthew, before we started our recording here, i was talking privately with, with john. and i kind of lamented that i, that a myself and i think john included, or maybe all of us are forced to talk about politics when most of us would love to talk about culture and society. and that's how i kind of look at these, put these a leads here because they have cultural affinity, social affinities. when you listen to a european on a foreign ministers traveling, they talk about ideas. they talk about what kind of society they want and the

creating the new human condition. they don't really talk about what's good for italy are good from netherlands. good for france, good for german, they talk about themselves. they talk about their elite and their elite ideas, which of course are superior to the people that of that, that vote for them. go ahead, matthew. well, i think that's very true, but i also think that sometimes what it's missed, especially in terms of the narrative that gets pushed in the united states, is that there's also a hierarchy within the elite itself. yep. and the americans push very hard to make sure everyone is very clear, that at the top of that elite hierarchy is the american elite, tal g for lack of a better term. and they want to make people understand. and that's why i come from a national security intelligence background. so i don't really look at it ideation only when it, when micro talks about strategic autonomy. i see it much more from the practical reality of saying, we're not comfortable with how the united states has largely basically through this

conflict and ukraine. told all of europe. where else are you going to go? you have us and you have no one else. there is no other legitimate idea, there is no other legitimate alliance that you can rely on. and therefore, he's manipulating the phrase almost to me in a terminal, almost making it de facto like classical neutrality, which is i'm going to pursue our interests wherever they may lead us. and i'm not automatically aligning with you on every single issue, just because you're at the top of beverly pyramid. that's what i think what infuriates the american soma. and, well, john, that's kind of like from the soprano, is, you know, you had to buy administration say, as a kind of a nice presidential policy out there in france. you know, would be a pity if something happened to it. i mean this is, this is exactly what it is. i do agree with matthew, that is very high article. everything is high article, okay, everything. and, but, i mean, but what i, what i find fascinating and deplorable is that there are so many people that will

bow down to this hierarchy and think it, it's a good gig for them. i mean, just because your prime minister of a european countries i thought the end of your career, not just the beginning. okay. i mean, it's a, it's all a towards a griff. okay. and you get away with it by siding with, you know, the right side of history, the great americans, you know, a liberalism, they have all of these covers for their own self interest because dealing with the nitty gritty of fixing rhodes and having water quality. that's boring. john, well again, i think the concept of ideology that you introduced her in your questions earlier is very important. you know, 20 years after the end of the, after the invasion of iraq. it seems as if george w bush is we're still in power. you're either with us or against us, you know, there's no, there's no concept any more in the western mindset for negotiation for diplomacy, for compromise. instead, all li, strategic documents, for instance, of nato itself,

or indeed formulated in highly ideological terms. there's a lot of stuff about values. there's a lot of stuff authoritarian regimes which somehow threaten us and so on. and a michael, of course, made his remark partly because he wants to sell a lot of our buses to china. and so he was trying to suck, not chinese opinion or wishes which is ultimately fair enough. but the fact is that he himself has gone far too far down the ideological re, yet able to speak about or any kind of strategic autonomy with any, any conviction. and, you know, you said that you wanted to talk about society and culture instead of talking about politics. but one of the depressing things about life i would say in europe to day is that there aren't any cultural or social spheres left anymore, which are independent of politics. you know, let him is. lensky speaks at the vienna venice, be an ali. he speaks at the cannes film festival,

he speaks at the frankfurt book fair though there are, there are no, he speaks at the glastonbury festival. there are no cultural events left where politics does not intervene. or for that matter where l g b, t writes, or whatever intervene as well, there are no more autonomous fields left. and therefore we are in europe, in a situation very similar to that which existed in the soviet union. yeah. the communism where everything had to be brought back to marxism in europe today, everything has to be brought back to, to postmodernism and to the associated values. and back, or of course himself is an of sleep pure product of that, of that, of that, of that phenomenon. yeah, i'm not worried about zalinski appearing and all those venues. i'm sure he is. his checks are cashed to all across europe without a problem. okay. member chang, i check, remember his nickname was cash. my check that we have to find a ukrainian version cash. my check, i'll alfred. you know, we're very pessimistic here right now because i don't see any tools or any ideas or

a cadre they can actually shake things up. i think it really seems that europe is straight jacketed itself to washington. that's not a bet i would take, i mean, because if you look at the middle east, you but read china's initiatives, i mean pieces breaking out all over the place and the americans have no control over apparently at all. i. i see which arc of history i would like to be on. i'd like to be on the side of peace. alfred. while i'm. * course, but it's amazing that all our think tanks really came. so the heritage foundation, they had not realized that we are so i cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world and that the belt and road initiative and everything else the passing of over . now the main problem that i see in the west, and that includes switzerland where i lay, is the main stream media. the main very media is brainwashing is indoctrination. and 2 books come to my grade, new world of out of those,

hopefully on of course $984.00 on george orwell. we live in that store and i don't see any awakening right now. thank god, there is something called consortium news and counter punch and prove out, and the real news network on the intercept. thank god, there's still sputnik and r, p and z and, and asia times and the mobile times, et cetera. but that is for us, will actually go out our way to get the information. i get different narratives and try to evaluate what the masses they go during the elevation on their watch, cnn. and that's all they get. and that is the problem. if you have a democracy where the entire population has been indoctrinated into believing as a matter of faith,

that we are the good guys believing that we have the right to do what we're doing. i mean, we have locked ourselves into this situation, which is very difficult to get out. yes, yes, absolutely. and pending themselves into a corner, matthew, i want to take advantage of your past professionalism here. can you comment if you want on these document weeks? what do you think of it? because, i mean, it's very interesting how it summer using it to, to shift it narratives, change perspectives on the crane and other things like that. um and, and i've talked to a lot of people in the intelligence community, mostly retired and most of, with this kind of scratch their heads over. what do you think of it? this is obviously for, for my line of work, this is sort of occupying the front end of the desk at the moment. i says it's plastered everywhere within the united states and people are fascinated by it.

there are practical aspects that probably go beyond what we're talking about or maybe seems small potatoes in the bigger discussions we're having right here. but i think it is starting to show some regular quote unquote regular citizens in america . that there is definitely a problem in united states in terms of the, the categorization of clearances. we have far too many people that get clearances, security clearances within our, within our governmental military intelligence communities. and were seen because of who did the leaks and why that person's well. okay, matt. matthew, let me, let me jump to the chase here. how did this kid get these kinds of documents that was that's the question. and what are they in? are they and are they real ok? i think they are real. okay. because people too often want to take the hollywood version. they get fed a lot in terms of the intelligence community. we have 1400000 people with clarity clearances in the united states. and not all of them are senior officials with decades of experience. we have too many documents that get classified in order to

process them. we end up with people like the individual that did the leaking with access to documents that now the thing i want to push back on is the idea of just how powerful were these documents that he actually leaked onto his game or site. right? i mean, there was some embarrassing things there to be sure. but the idea that, well, i don't know if taiwan is ready for a chinese encouraging militarily. or if we don't keep doing what we're doing and ukraine, ukraine could end up facing real star math. if you bring up a very secret, you bring up a very interesting point because the discussions i've had with people is that if you really put your nose to the grindstone and look at all the you way, for example, like that, that none of these documents say anything particularly new, okay, but they're being presented is some kind of splash. ok. what kind of shift gears ramos running out of time here. but john, what is the feeling in france?

i mean, we had this pension reform here. i suppose that you know, across did pull lead to gall and dis, you had got it done his own way here. what kinds of pressures or people, what kind of pressures are people feeling? is this conflict in ukraine continues when the prospects are very bleak for nato. we, irrespective of all the propaganda that people are being fed, 45 seconds to my friend. well, i'm afraid, i think france is no different from anywhere else. i think there is a mass media problem that albert alfred designs mentioned, and while there may be a higher degree of understanding for russia and france than in other countries, i don't think france is substantially different. the west predictions have not come true. i have to say that haven't been power cuts in france. they haven't been, there hasn't been serious hardship. just as the west per predictions haven't come through come true for rush or either. right. so it way it's off the news and people instead are worried about, you know, pension reform, as you say,

the ukraine thing is not really at the top of the gender at the moment. it's dragging on and i think that's probably part of russia's ivan strategy. i think russia knows that they will be will fatigue. yeah, pretty good if not already all of the nay sayers that have had over the last 15 months. i've said the same thing here, there that different size have different agendas and time frames who's got the cox and who's got the time or a gentleman that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in paris, switzerland, and in washington. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember, cross stuck with ah, the only one main thing is important for knox. ism internationally speaking. that

is that nations because of allowed to do anything, all the mos to races. and then you have the mind, a nation, so all the slaves, americans, proc obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist. i turning those russians into this danger is go, you man, that wants to take over the world. that was a country strategy. so some of it on your own, i not leashed off to exhibit in tablet block. nato said it's out. we move east and the reason us, hey jim, it is so dangerous, is it deny the sovereignty of all the countries, the exceptionalism that america uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nature,

what is bad, the shareholders in united states and elsewhere in lodge obs companies would lose millions of millions or is business and business is good. and that is the reality of what we're facing. which is fashion. a, [000:00:00;00] a fighting radios for a 5th day in students as rival faction to bring the ne african country to the humanitarian crisis. divide and conquer that, the tactic china is using against the was at least according to the chief,

but her comments become less than 2 weeks after she made a high profile visit to beijing. washington, it tries to increase pressure on the drone program by imposing new sanctions on all