big dogs, which is in ukraine, it enjoys funding from western governments. then you have the person that they assigned fact checking to which is been the mo who is employed by the atlantic council. the atlantic counselors will cause a nato think tank. what counts as fact checking is simply, are you using official western governmental sources to challenge the views of alternative media and trying to abuse that government find offensive? ah, for sailors are dead. after a russian fishing boat caught fire near the side, korean coastal city of will sun. early on friday, the vessels named cal tom was carrying a crew of 25, all russian citizens, as well as a 100 tons of sea food. the rest of the crew were rescued after their s o. s call was answered by local emergency services,

with 3 people receiving treatment for intrigues. it is not being towed back to port . we believe that's around 300 kilometers from so on. the blaze has been extinguished. a trip to the cross talk studio is where we had next year in our t catch peter on guess for the shortest of breaks talking. some pretty come body words from you. k defense officials with oh, when i want something wrong,

when old fools just don't whole. i mean you have to shape out the same becomes the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will to part. we choose to look for common ground. ah ah hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . you k defense secretary ben wallace recently said i'm optimistic between this year and the next year. i think ukraine will continue to have the momentum with it and a position of strength. he also said there is no magic one moment when russia collapses

. in what universe does wallace reside? a spit think. okay, so he thinks the thing and things are going just hunky dory for the ukrainians, and that rushes is facing imminent collapse here. all while in the background we have all of these leaks that came through a 21 year old reserve is saying completely opposite things here. so, i mean it, do, we still don't have any lead a message and, but the realities are hidden behind the curtain and every once in a while through leaks. if they're real, i can't tell. they are not. tell us a very different story. go ahead in belgrade. i think that the elites in the west are, became victims essentially, and hostages of their own propaganda. they got high on their own supply. and this is why we hear all these. kudos, view grain all the time. whereas it, in fact things are turning really a sour for of the western had germany,

not only in ukraine, but around the world. while the media in the united states is a preoccupied with january 6th, 2020 or with what is happening in some villages around backwards. ah, the percent declarations are getting away from the western currencies. the a deal that to the united states had, with saudi arabia and the otter gulf country zone, when it comes to oral. and the, the control of the price is a lot of oil is off, latin america is turning away from the u. s. and that's why probably we hear the is a fairy tales about about the dissolution of russia and so well calling, let me go to you in apple valley. i mean, you, you are in the f b, i hear you, you know, give us your sense of the veracity of these leaks here because we haven't really

seen them. we've seen some reports on these lee. it's very different. like with weekly leaks. ok. so you as an expert, could look at documents and figure out if they're real or not very, and probably very quickly. now we're just given these pictures. ok. and they and, and actually there are contradictory, different pictures out there to is this a psych off operation here, or is it just the usual incompetence we expect from these people go ahead calling? i think the leaks themselves are real. i got the u. s. government would not have gone to it to the measures that they dag trying to hunt the sky down and find them . unfortunately though, once they didn't get seen by a lot of people, just gamers in the and dot belin kat researchers. so it is possible that some of these documents now could have been tampered with, or, you know, forged except for it to change them slightly. that's possible. if anything, leaks now,

you worley would have to be skeptical. but i think initially that some of the reports of what they contained were correct. it's also possible that some, some higher level people, maybe not the top level. i'm actually, we're okay with some of the leaks. yeah. you know, they try tech. they trying to manage our perception. and so a lot of this is through dis, information. and sometimes actually information can be skilled to allow that this information. well alex, i think, you know, cohen has a very good point. i've thought about that myself, but there's also this growing, i wouldn't even say debate because debates not really allowed. but you know, this seems to be much more of a biden administration agenda, forcing in upon the european union. it's in its nato allies. and then you have the intel community saying something very, very different. and i tend to agree with colleen. i think some people in the intel community are want to do to actually show that there is some kind of descent within

the intel community as opposed to the political class your thoughts alex? i mean we've seen this in the past strategically. so this really happened at a certain time for, for a certain reason. this could be all timing on, you know, we, we know the situation on the ground and back wilson beyond, we know the situation is not exactly what the western media is making it out to be . so why not could a little, you know, shiny star on the corner to look over this way. we have a leak for you to, you know, pay attention to instead of what's actually happening on the ground. there's also other reasons, obviously for there to be a distraction. i mean, the situation in western europe in the you itself is not the best. the economy is suffering because of this war and has a huge part to do with what's going on. and the fact that the sanctions aren't working. so you know, i've said this before, i've helped write the book on stations when i used to work in the former yugoslavia for an agency you an agency in belgrade. and so our conclusion at that time was that sanctions don't work and i would stick to that to this day. so the end story

is, i think when you have something of this magnitude, it's allowed to slip out. sometimes. second of all, we're looking at a 21 year. ready gamer, how can you get your hands on this kind of information? so there must be something behind us. is that just a distraction, or is it a lot more than that? well, you, steven a i, i have been told by former, in town, official cia specific, that it's a virtual impossibility. an individual like this could get access to these documents unless he was given them. okay. okay. i don't want to go into this. we could chase our tails on this, and that's what they want us to do here. but i, i wanted to throw that out. when i started out with ben wallace talking about, you know, the imminent collapse of brush. i mean, i don't know what scenarios people have been talking about here. i thought it was about democracy versus a ta chrissy. it's about a destroying russia. decoupling from china it's, it's all over the place here. stephen, go ahead. the simulations are,

are getting wilder and wilder, where at the same time we see that the credibility of the politician is just plummet. then politicians. i just want to think, especially when it comes to european politicians, for instance, now a cron is talking about right. a strategic economy of europe at the same time when he has huge protests in his own country and when his words are discredited. let's remind ourselves back in 2018. he said that france needs to detach. when he got the security from her, from the united states, so that nato, his brain, that, that the strategic partnership with both russia turkey should be done. whereas in the meantime, i'm frank france made a military deal with greece that he's essentially against the turks. and it is a literally involved in the war against russia by supplying weapons and training

to the ukraine. so i think that, that, that, of course, in this atmosphere, us speculations became, became something you know, we are losing the, a border, let's say, between reality and, and the speculative world world, and this call upon the western politicians as, as well. so that is why of course, now it is completely normal to you know, for them to sell us the story that the gamer is capable of finding such kind of documents on his own and been calling. you can display this shell game just so much because you just have to look out the window and that's what reality is. crime, inflation adida, industrialization. and these wacky woke stuff that everybody i, which i simply can't comprehend. ok, you can only play this diversionary game. so much when, you know, when the bill comes home, i mean, you know,

they leave in the cia is made it very clear. i guess another strategic gleick this how much the zalinski regime is skimming off of us aid here. that's an untenable thing. when your water supply in your home town is a, is a, is polluted. go ahead in apple bill, i'm apple valley. sorry. yeah, that's the tricky part of managing people's opinions and quote unquote, making your own reality is that it does, it works for a while and in fact it's quite easy to do for a while as long as you control the mainstream media. however, it wears thin after a while and truth eventually the, there's an old song about the grass grows through the concrete. you know, the truth eventually get through to people's heads regardless. and that's why this constant distraction is necessary. it's really frustrating to be a victim of it. i have to say, you know,

i want to throw my my something at the t v all the time because it's really frustrating to see this go on and not be able to push the truth out more. * but you know, you have to hope that the people that are managing people's perception with this information and constant distraction, etc. well, well, eventually there will be more leaks more, more with some more. you have to hope that and you have to hope that the recklessness of the people on the top in their desperation, does not get worse, where they are, they feel forced to do even more reckless measures. well, alex, a good example is that, is that most of the world doesn't by the nonsense about the destruction of the north stream pipelines. more people asking questions or oh, and by the way, seymour hersh now is considered misinformation on facebook. i think colleen is absolutely right, people meeting to say,

this is getting untenable at 30 seconds. where are we going to break? go ahead alex, this, what we're looking at right now. our virtue signaling has become a priority over telling the truth. so, i mean, my background is canadian, i'm from canada, born and raised, if you want the epitome of purchasing a signal, and that will be the country of canada, right now, minister, etc. it all comes down to about, oh look, we're helping do it by doing that. so we're hoping by doing that for you. craig, for ukraine, for ukraine, for ukraine, being in your for just one day, you know, number of the cranium plates you're piecing just driving around. and i'm not talking about regular cars. i'm talking about a 100000 year olds and i'm talking about rolls royces with ukrainian waste 2024 automobiles that were bought and ukraine, driven over here by somebody that's under the age of 50, usually a male. so everything that we're thinking is happening in ukraine, that we're setting some money there to help the people on the ground. it's helping a lot of people, whatnot, ukraine, ukrainians, greatly to. and that's part of the program, and we're going to go to a short break. and after a break, we'll continue our discussion on confused narrative. stay with our team,

the the ah needs to come to the russian state. little narrative. i've stayed as i'm phone and ignore some scheme. div s mm hm. then i can also send up for a group in 55 with. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else calls with we will ban in the european union. the kremlin. yup. machines. the state on russia today and split ortiz spoke neck, given our video agency,

roughly all band on youtube and pinterest and with ah, i to business with them. boston, you are going to shoot them up. good. i did miss stewart with key at the when or should just keep the process. this can be due at molly. com. could you please give us a letter that was put in a row, spoke with of christ opponents in the full could i get you what i need to do with what you asked about superficial lithium door. you put up a list of all,

but each with a yes could that would be useful. ah ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter labelle from and you were discussing, confused narratives. ah, yes. go back to belgrade stephen. i know you've already mentioned in the program, but i think it's worth talk for. but what makes it kind of comic and even tragic is it? well, prefer the president of france. it's too late for you even to start thinking about these things. choices have been made for you and you've made your own choices. so any talk of autonomy is almost a pipe dream at this point. nord stream twos destroyed, energy prices skyrocketing,

most countries in europe have double digit inflation. those are the issues you're gonna have to be dealing with, you're not to be talking about. will we be strategically? autonomy from the united states. that ship is already sailed to the detriment of europe. go ahead. exactly as the late perimeter of serbia is. one of these once said, you can make fish soup out of aquarium, but you cannot make an aquarium with fish out of a fish too. so i micron are saying these things after everything that he has personally done and, and he's still trying to pretend to be in a bike or somebody who has a dependency watching the a, you know, process is aware. in fact, i thing that biden has brought back nato from this brain. does that? oh yeah, ron was talking about and, and in fact, what happened in the process is that france and germany in the 1st place became

exactly once more drunk, says that they should not be, they became vessels of the united states. and i mean, this reminds me of the prison psychology where once the prisoner gives in a little bit, then you know that no, and to concessions. and that is exactly what france did. and now mac drawn, woke up after, after a year, being heavily involved in war with french weapons being sent to ukrainian front as we speak. and now he's talking about strategic autonomy. i honestly don't know what it was, what is happening? well, you know, he said he sees in the same, you know, circle has been wallace. these people are, are delusional. they think they have power. they think they have agency, they don't. okay. and what they spent, they claim to speak for the people at least adelina, better box, said the true. she doesn't care what her voters like. you know it, lee, she she, you know, she was honest. okay. she was transparent. the rest of them are

a pack of liars, only let me go back to you. one of the things, i mean, it's already been kind of mentioned this program, but you know, i can remember what happened in ukraine with forest regime change. they are, they attempted it in syria, they succeeded in iraq. afghanistan, not that the results were all that great, but it, with the mom was happening now in the west, is that the same kind of beliefs are, are in acting regime change at home. they're using exactly the same playbook of disinformation, empowering certain groups, um, disappearing others. we see this with social media all the time. you know, i give kudos the on must, but if you know twitter is not going to change the world, it could influence it, but it won't change it. and i think this is what creating so much frustration is because the leads are saying what, what problems are out there and they will work on them, but they're not my problems and they're not yours. go ahead. well, is the regime change playbook has worked a lot, as you mentioned. however,

there it hasn't worked on most recently for instance with hong kong. * it, it didn't work real well. it didn't work real well with venezuela. so there's been, i think, a turn here where that playbook a regime change is becoming harder to enact. and yes, i think it's also true they're, they're arresting. i just anti war people that are, you know, anti war were arrested in charge. i don't know what they can even be charged with for their opinions. but this seems to be again, more an evidence of more desperation on the part of the control. people who want to control the narrative at the top that they then have to resort to measures like charging people in the united states who are anti war by, by the censorship that they work in collaboration with social media. the seems as if you were in charge, you wouldn't want to,

to engage in those measures because they actually are counterproductive. and i think all of this, you know, it's just a blow back from the situation that the united states has been waging, you know, perpetual quote. unquote, perpetual war for so on that it becomes more and more depth are harder to control the narrative. and they have to resort to these unique unusual measures. well, yes, i was, you know, i've been watching the prime minister of canada. i mean, you know, for an american administration that wants to divide the world into talk, receives in democracies, i don't know why candidates in the democracy category seems very autocratic to me with the prime minister. you have mr. trudeau autocratic that. yeah, well, i mean, that's debatable. ready i did judo, i mean, basically what's happening in canada, the problem is that there really is no other choice. there was 3 parties and you're looking at the same thing or all 3 parties. everybody is a part of the world economic forum. everybody's being ruled by the exact same

people. one person will say they're conservative, the other will say they're liberal. the other will say they're socialists in the india and they're all exactly the same. so i shoot out what is what he's doing is basically just trying to maintain power. the whole thing with ukraine is, is part and parcel with that we have a huge ukrainian population. i believe it's the 2nd biggest in english, canada after the english speaking people. so that's your voter base, so that's who you're playing to and the rest of the people just fall into line. but like there, i mean, i'm in france now and i speak to canadians every day. i don't think the wall has been pulled over the populations eyes in general. everybody knows what's going on. everybody knows what's happening in ukraine. everybody knows the canadian forces have been there are 2000 since 2014, alongside americans at britain, french training, supposedly probably sector and the alcohol for tally and everybody else. so eyes are opening up even wider these days because people want the war to end and they're looking for information that basically docs that truth, that there should be peace, not war. yeah, well it's go back to bell. great. i mean,

one of the most pathetic things and all of us have been watching this in real time . and with this crusade of democracy versus a top chrissy, it's destroying ukraine. i mean it's, we had a chance last year about the time last year for that conflict to, to come to a very quick and abrupt end. but it was the west that wanted to re colonize, reoccupied by money. in the same time, losers are, are great, western europe, especially autonomy, is completely lost. spears the theories, according to the major, you know, it's always say on what happened re, colonization has been brought up here. victims are of course, ukraine and in the rural elite, see they mean the netherlands and put because these people all exactly say you've mentioned already that this he is, is obviously people like to believe. so you're, you're up against propaganda and you know, all of europe and uses proxies in their own allies and you hurt even

the big know, bring to help was going to hurt this. the media is so, in fact, i would say they make more problems. i want to thank my viewers in apple valley with pro waters and the pressure to from today we are speaking to a group of ins, test fighting.