to plan for a russian military base, they don't mention brands increasing closeness to the biden administration at war with russia. and preparing for war with china. unlike ukraine, where the usa condemned a china piece plan, the usa, whose ambassador flew in shortly before the violence says at once peace answered on as do china, russia, the u. a and saudi arabia, which is brokering seismic piece deals. reconfiguring the middle east and arab world that go straight to virginia home of cia headquarters to speak to someone who has been the most widely distributed independent journalist in the whole of africa . thomas mountain jama. salvage? yeah, no. speaking to you from c, i a headquarters, i'm just saying you're in virginia and i'm not trying to got any as worship as a terrible, terrible figures coming from saddam in all seriousness. appalling news coming out. but unlike the ukraine, when nato nation media know exactly everything about that situation,

apparently the war began last february. and when it comes to sit on the i, they look confused. ab or they just don't know when the shooting step started. they, they haven't been told which side to back, you know, this region you lived in this region. what is going on? well, you know, again, this is denise air force pilots or bombing julian populations in the capital cartoon and elsewhere. this has been going on since sunday, and everybody's quiet about me. there's videos on the whole city blocks at a time getting bleed out. and cartoon. what's welcome. e air force is bombing its own capital city, and rural is and up in arms. what's going on really is that our is a cia back pension name, general abraham, whose eat back by age is and the cia. and he was trying to eliminate his competition, which is general ha, mattie was head of a but i mean,

you know and saying that i me behind didn't get the ok from washington to start using jets warplanes to bomb a really bombard capital. well, brown is pretty much, dear man, in sudan. i mean, he's easy to really easy a, provide hundreds of tons of weapons to the c i back attempted to against ethiopian government to grab people's liberation from. he's been trying to normalize relations with israel, which the u. s is very supportive of heal on sundays news shows our egyptian air force base in a way, in sudan be captured by the are. so, i mean, this is in, airplanes are being used to threaten ethiopia because there should, i mean, each up is demanding that they control control the water. so i mean,

brown is been basically dance and from the cia and the region. ok, well, and that's just get on as a whole lot. let's just get on to the strategic because you mentioned ethiopia there, which is a whole nother element in extended. i mean, to an extent because it was accused of being part of a propaganda operation. in recent years that the t p i left with some kind of freedom fighters, even the western media event you had to give up on that one. and i got to say, i'll see, see, of egypt quote says, quote, will not interfere in the internal f as a saddam will continue to have it's for achieving a sci fi. what is happening. it's a don is an internal matter should not be interfered with. we are in contact with the sudanese forces and the rapid support forces you mention, ethiopia, that there's been a piece process there with eritrea, which is been the most sanctioned country in the world. now russia, now rusher is what, what is that relationship is that, is that the complexity here as regards trying to destabilize that piece,

deal between the leaders of eritrea and ethiopia. and just you might just have to stop by mentioning the bible, amanda, straits and why washington looks upon this region, is the most strategic on f. right? well, the horn of africa is probably one of the most strategic regions on the planet. most of the trade between you and asia passes through there and a container ships. and so there's 2 tow place there's up in the north, the suez canal, unsolved at the bottom. and now the u. s. is kind of in, or between a rock and a hard place here, because iran in saudi arabia are making peace. and saudi arabia is what i call their via damn, is coming. the war is coming to a close. and on that and the other side of the red sea is a reacher which refuses to go down to u. s. and germany. so u. s. isn't a bad spot because they can't control the bomb and them, they got

a serious credibility problem with the rest of the world. so, you know, the horn of africa is strategically critical, and that's why the, the c, i has been spending billions of dollars for many decades law. trying to prop up a policeman on the beat. they lost their police on the beat when the t p. a last worse removed from power and what i call the peaceful revolution in ethiopia in 2018. and they tried to bring the t p a lot back to power in early november, 2020 through a military coup which was defeated mainly faxed to the immigration at the end, at the request of ethiopian government, or they reach a military. so region, if you, if you have grown very close fighting their common enemy and the ethiopian people in the region, people are not really, i don't think the bond is unbreakable. and this is got the americans upset because ethiopia is one of the largest countries in africa. and it's strategically located on, you know, closer to la bowman them. so that's sort of the background why the u. s. is worried

. and, you know, basically with the fall of the t p, a lot, that laughter, han and sudan as their main pension in the region. and now it looks like brand is falling. i mean, we haven't heard from him other than what blown confess. you know, i called the secretary of chaos us ah, blinking of fools claim be our conversation around here, blink blink. and says it's been to been talking to them. but i mean, the history of colonialism, imperialism in that region, is dividing and ruling clearly. and that they m, you're explaining out that age of divide and rulers failed in the one of africa reserve, ethiopia, in eritrea. it's been very successful in sudan, arguably they've had hollywood, george clooney in south sudan and the da for so called genocide, which are scholars, people can watch our interview with my mood, ma'am dani of princeton. debunking a lot of the myths about that. but they are,

they going to be successful this time because just as a russia was getting this bass, which the united states clearly don't want. the sydney is based in port sudan on the red sea. and peace is breaking out around these areas. can they not just triangulate? they can say theo, peer is going to build the good dam, which hydro electric li, depresses water supplies to cairo. they've got southward on as the proxy they're, they've got him, etc, too. they could back committee maybe next week against a bore hon and just keep doing this. the americans have the money. well, you know, he's got a track record of you know, wanting to have a civilian government and in sudan, i mean when the civilian rule came back to power after the cool that behind and orchestrated against bus year is former. oh lord, i met,

he went to richard and left a few hours after you landed in cartoon. yeah, most of the still now, you know, so how much is back truck or just last month? um, it was in a richer, you know, richer has the same old horns all road, still peace and horner wrapped around your smart or richer. so you know how many going there and coming back home. but see the u. s. doesn't want that. you don't want that piece in the heart of after they want to have their own pension and power and perhaps been the guy they want, they've actually, you know, basically still buying a lot of them to, to, to who's without any real repercussion. so, you know, i met is, looks like he's winning this war. i mean, it's hard to say from lynchburg, but, you know, we follow very closely in the news in the region and our, my wife speaks languages there. so again, i know you're, you're monitoring all the, all the conversations and then the radio transmissions. but of course, a views weren't even really telegraph to the wider public. he,

unlike, unlike were, hon did apologize for the lack of a transition to civilian government. the what is the role of a donation media in this and the elite class of, and i don't know whether you call them and n g o class of kweisi usa. the funded elite in this region then appears talking heads on television programs and then volleyball. you say no, this is not f qu against this great leader boron who was in the process of transferring to try a civilian rule to a civilian rule that no doubt would also have been peopled by people, perhaps educated in the united states. and part of that complex, well, you know, what the western countries, especially us doesn't want his real pan african isn't solidarity. breaking out in

the heart of laughter. and you know, people starting to stand up to what's best for their own interest rather than what's best for the western interest. and i'm hopefully, and that is part of that movement. you know, we can never tell. but right now he looks like the best choice. but, you know, he is supported by you, he'll be an in reach or a both of which want to see piece in sudan. nobody wants to see war and cigar. nobody wants to see the soonest people suffering, which has been getting worse and worse on the brown. i mean, even last year as bad as he was, the people had brandy. but in sudan for under brown, people are hungry. i mean, that's the problem. see. so up, the west basically wants to control the region. they want to keep their hands and people that are pro west in power, people that are recognize israel and so on and so forth. and this is why the west has been supporting behind, you know, i mean, sudan is part of the arab nubian shield, which is one of the 3 which is mineral concentrations on the planet,

which includes reacher, park, the seal, and saudi arabia. and you know, this is been russian mining in sudan for years. go jangle mines. another thing. so you know, the west is concerned about that. they want to come and they want to be the ones exploiting those minerals. so, you know, there is a vested interest in the region, but it's mainly the horn of africa as being the bob, mom and dad and strategically critical. so, you know, it's interesting how many went to russia last year when he returned shortly after returned bernal's, a press conference and announces the russian small basin in sounds, read seacoast. so, you know, it's like how many he's been out there internationally or, you know, get bilateral relations and other things. and, you know, so i think scott, especially is malaysia calls from nations. russia has got to was word, almost wild. now stop you. the more from the most widely distributed in the better journalists in hold of africa after the spring. ah

ah, ah, during the 2nd world war in nazi occupied, poland valinda was a farming region. today is part of ukraine. between 19431945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army, led by stepan bandera could thousands of poles in virginia in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the mergers were particularly horrific, and brutal villages were burned and property looted. the valinda massacre is without doubt one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. why are ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events? how to modern day ukraine and poland view this tragedy of the past?

and why does the memory of belinda still divide people? oh, in 2022, the italian government approved a package of military aid to ukraine. coordination with you and nato to help ukrainians defend themselves and fight back. about 150000000 euros were america, we polls or even atomic bombs are hearing all the same nato and the u. f with you and the one that people will die just for make money. the one that i have, i have been yes, carol volume as who got thrown every few gone through or not. she thought complete . i mean there's water damage. you thought you'd called me, you only got beat on figured i won't for them. if as will dog ha more saw me. my show it buzz road tool store ever opa, exec leila lesser opinion polls show that over 70 percent of italians are against

military support for ukraine. campbell, i landed in confront with the day frat last or the flap. don't a lot of us yet. we only got it more thought on a skid out and go swimming. do not she named toward the de la by the daily dazzling lucille milan sold bought a lot. you dantas has been a full book because im, when are you doing fine theda the lady up ah, welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with someone who has been the most widely distributed independent journalist in africa, thomas mountain, of course, her mattie, the r s. f leader is known in nater, nation media as a private mercenary army contract. there was made loads of money associated with the january, we'd the genocide and our 4. or you might just have to dispel a few of the myths there before. we try and analyze it for her there. what's going

on? well, you know, i'm, it is low angel, you know, they used to call in the camel general and he got rich, you know, from through his military control of the west. so don, but he has been supporting civilian rule in the region and military rules. just going to be a disaster. sedans have 30 years to that on the bus year. they don't need it anymore. so sit down, you know, had a well and it pretty much run out and they used be rich and oil and also down started. so, you know, somebody is going to have to come in and, and, you know, get some hard medicine to the suit. these people because you know, this, warren cartoon bombing and cartoon surround is never seen that before. so don't people are facing work really 1st and most of them the 1st time. so i think this is kind of a wake up call to the sudanese people that they can't just sit back and, and worry about where they're going to get the brand today. they gotta deal with,

you know, how they're going to govern their country, how they're going to get themselves out of this mass. but, you know, i just saw reports that said that most of the sudanese people want to reach or to come in immediate this problem because look, look at what's going on this war. you've got bahamas, the sudanese army, 250000 people with armor, air force, helicopters, fighter bombers tanks. and then you've got committees force $100000.00, which is basically a militia mounted on pickup trucks, with any aircraft, and a small cans. what i, you know, how come behind hasn't just crushed them? well, you know, to me, it looks like it's the other way around. major surrenders are taking place from bronze in a circle. so any case, you know how many he's going to have a really tough time, 100000 men controlling a huge country like saddam of over 40000000 people. so you're going to need some mediation because i mean not only is br, hon got his support is you've got a bus, you're the former president of those or with your own. got is supporters, and it's

a very complex situation is going to require some really expert mediation. and what would, what would the tony blank and, and the biden white has to do if party is there. and even the middle class condra elite, who are interviewed on nato nation media, television networks, who appear to just say, everyone is bad in terms of leadership, not really saying either way, the geopolitical the influences on either body. what, what would the, the biden white have say if, as mara became the talking, talking place. and i should say, the united nations has said very little concrete in terms of progressing piece after the violence about food is wanting us is very much against is a reach or having anyone promoting peace in the back of the u. s. policy is crisis management. it's been that way for many, many decades, create

a crisis and then manage that crisis to better losing plunder the resources of the region. they don't want strong nationalist governments, you know, uniting the region developing peaceful cooperation and independence from the west. they want small, broken up countries that you know, have to kneel down and accept whatever they're called, whatever they're handed out. so, you know, reaching out, getting logged on as you, i want to us worst nightmare. i mean, that's what they don't want. and you know, the history of you don't think the $331000000.00 announced by blinking, given to addis ababa is something of concern as regards peace. well, you know, if you will, please go over a 100000000 people. so, you know, they've got a mold. why did lincoln do that? why did lincoln just announce that? well, no, the violence, i mean, he's like, he's got as act as a carrot and a stick. i mean, you can't just come in and, and try to be easy over the head to try to bribe. i mean, they're offering them,

you know, because ethiopia has got august odious death, which they should just declare is that billions and billions of dollars. so i am after the war back, which was run, the debt was run up under the very corrupt r u. s. lackey machine. the t p leveraging before, i'll be honest, i became the power so you know, e, c o b as kind of a hard spot in a shorter foreign currency. they need, i, m f, money die m f is saying, listen, you got to do this, you got to do that. and what they really want is they want, if you'll be in a richer part ways, which usually people are talking to. wow. so, you know, i mean knows, i mean, the head of the ethiopian military recently came out and said on national t, the we o originally had debt. we don't know how we're going to pay it. in other words, when to reach a, c, d, c o, b, a r, a c, i supported instigated if you'll be out knows who saved and i was reach out. so i don't want to you, you think of in terms of the more recent violence of the bailiff were involved in

the gray region to stop the peace process. but the amount of weaponry going in there was quite substantial. do you think lincoln and the by and why does would would send more military weapons and armaments to boron, as he runs out of ammunition fighting, fighting a mess he entered on? well, you know, i just saw report my wife just saw report that the are a staff under her mental captured 200 sudanese army tanks. the, basically the city's army just left this major arms the ball and said here, you know, is yours. i mean, these report so far we've all been turning out to be true. those from reliable sources we've been trusting for years, and so, you know, it doesn't look good for hahn. i don't see how he's going to hold up. i mean, is headed. his military intelligence surrender on sunday that one of the senior general surrendered on sunday. another senior general was captured on sunday. i

mean, this is from a lightly armed militia forest fighting one of africa's biggest armies. and yet things are going got bad for bron, i mean, even if the send more arms are already arms going, you know, going to the other side. i don't see how they're going to be on the same for on other than, you know, maybe i don't actually is no way they can say, i don't think, but we'll see. and do you think the, do you think, i mean, there's the rush or africa summit in july and st. petersburg? do you think russia, china, you a side, you're a and others have already assumed this position with him? if he is the next transitional ruler and got to, it's coming up and it's a big deal. and you know, it's going to be a breakthrough in our african moving away from western domination. that's clear. and that are some of the features people are going to be, for example, region president. besides what you'll do there and be less a big deal because, you know, it reaches only $4000000.00 people, but the foreign ministers are russia,

china, and india wrong. is it in reach or not too distant past? you know, so, i mean, that's no blank, no blinking in as much on as many tours because we know all over the world as me following leverage. some people say didn't visit as mara noticeably. i don't know if he's not welcome there. i mean, and he just, yes, i mean, you know, the u. s. is like, i say it's in a, it's in a tight spot. it's not a whole lot do. besides make a lot of noise in trenton sanctions on. hm. yeah. they are threatening sanctions. i saw that the blinking was very quickly going. you know, we could close down bank account. could that be? could that be an issue? i mean, how far do you think washing is going to go at war with russia? 3 grain against china in the south china sea. and now, and what was the largest country in africa will just fight and, and you think this time around, egypt will come round to the arab majority view, which is washington's presence in this region has not been greatly

beneficial in the bus to 50100 years. well, you know, asia, there's actually a very desperate financial situation and you know, cost of living is growing up very rapidly and there's hunger breaking on the job. so ingestion government is, you know, not in the strongest position and their own population, and a junction orders being captured by the so air conditioning captured by the south america sunday, it was a dish, and people, so i mean, you know, what you're going to do is that's a tough one because you know, what is the biggest investment china? presumably they're not going to continue down this. i m f. well bank policy. i know they have to an extent, but obviously they are looking to bricks and the chang i go ration, organization. yeah, you know, i mean, so it's, it's, it's hard to say where he's going to go because they're still pretty much dependent on western largest to survive. but i know they know gas. there's no future nap. everybody's starting to see that, i mean,

look and saudi this in the future and this american dollar gemini. so i mean is a major move away from the u. s. and this is a serious problem for the u. s. i mean like i say that between a rock and a hard spot and what are they going? i'm the only people that could possibly intervene in saddam would be addition military. and i don't see that happening. i mean, i really dont amounting to dish and people be happy about it. news. yes. should i used to be a colony of egypt under the british. and so i, and as this school size, we do, i mean for hon himself, he just is calling to say he's one of our people. so i mean, i don't see the injections in reading militarily because it would cost too much domestic artwork. but although you think that he would get americans about even ahead of the south africa, brick summit, which some people are calling the beginning of the end of a u. s. and byron, suddenly the continent of africa. well, you know, this is all like you said times are changing and really fast. i mean, up

a month or 2 ago, who would have talked to saudis and that iran would be making peace and the warrant . i'm going to be coming to a close, you know, mean who would have thought that perhaps most likely to fall in the u. s. would lose its last major engine in order back when it's just, i mean i'm sort of sitting back and having to absorb it all and not jump, jump out right out. and sam, what i think is going to happen because this is big, big world changing events that are taking place. and are, you know, you gotta, you gotta car digested a bit. but you know, you can see what's obvious and that the u. s. is in a bad spot that they're losing control or they lost control of ethiopia. you know, looks like they're about to lose. can any last of their influence and saddam, i mean, they've got a job, but it is sort of looking away from us at gemini. i mean it's like there's a lot of headaches on the horizon from the u. s. and i just hope they don't insight . i call them blinking the whole because he does really stupid things. and if he's

gonna try to send me a song, i know, but he knows americans seem to be capable of the most and terrible, and savage. i'm just fine the. i mean, why do you think what you be saying during this interview is so different to the talking heads you see on american british media since the fighting kicked off in got to usually we see eye witnesses who can speak english, beautifully, explaining that they just one piece and don't really expressing support either way for either of the 2 generals and others saying this is all terrible with no real context. it's all as far as i could make out. well, you know, i mean, why is it if i didn't finish it, we did that now. well, to sometime around the 10th or 11th of april committee and our asset got wind up

that brown was going to move to eliminate them. and they move very rapidly into strategic positions and actually sort of jumped the gun on brown and brown has been on the back foot since then. i mean and bronze, i think the soon is army finally demanded that there are surrender their weapons which day refusing, fighting, broke out on saturday, 15th of april. so, you know, this like got things have been developing very rapidly. and saddam, and, but i suspect it's going to slow down and want, i mean, maybe he's going to have to capture these bases and shut them down. maybe, you know, who knows where it's going to happen after that. i mean, maybe they're gonna have to go to egypt are racial and they are but you know, there's a lot of potential stumbling blocks in this piece process. but the best sign is that the sudanese people seem to want a retreat come mediate, which is, you know, sure, i had a waiter to come to some consensus. you know, not really and losing but consensus. so both sides got to win and both sides got to

lose. and they're going to come to a piece that will last both parties sitting down and hammered out too intense. exhausting negotiations, not to ultimatums and sanctions, but to consensus base negotiations. this is the only way you're really going to come to our lasting piece and the reason, and this is what i read your specializes. and so hopefully this is what will take place though i suspect the united states is going to do everything they can prevent this from happening. thomas martin, thank you. you're welcome and hope to have see you again soon. that's over the show . on monday, we'll be back again with one of the greatest journals in the world, pulitzer prize winning seymour hersh after his brand new revelations of ca, ukraine, corruption. meanwhile, you can give and judge by will i social media if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going on the grantee on normal dot com to watch new and old episodes of going undergrads. you monday.

ah. working together with oh, says legal problem is the fact that nobody knows where to ease you. is it just an audience of countries and zahn? you had to lead this country side of a position before i being an evolution, or even kind of fit to ration we school to countries being like state the united states.

with shell. it's still, ringo itself, to the sudanese army agrees, 2 or 3 days since far with part of military forces in the country coming as locust and mountain, the warring sides to stop the bloodshed lost advice to these troops. to stop this war, i swear that there is no winner in this war. there is destruction losing and robberies . concerns grow in washington that the vast sums of money being sent to you praying is ripe for pillaging. with usaa creditor in just over a year is set to surpass the funds given to afghanistan over 2 decades. dozens of ministers and you can that face trial on charges of stealing.