he's a ah i'm afternoon nancy, and welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from dubai. in the u. e. thousands had been killed or wounded in the past few days in the capital of what was once africa's biggest country sudan emblematic ever collapsing british empire in the 19th century . ancient resource supervisor don, even after it was recently broken into with the help of nato powers is of critical geopolitical significance bordering libya, egypt, chad, ethiopia,

eritrea and guarding the choke points of world trade in the red sea, so called mainstream media treats this week's violence as a fight between de facto u. s. back military leaders to don general abdel father albert han and his deputy. well, madame dan, die gallow a gay ha mattie, who is in russia recently of a god to his plan for a russian military base. they don't mention brands increasing closeness to the biden administration at war with russia, and preparing for war with china. unlike ukraine, where the usa condemned a china piece plan, the usa, whose ambassador flew in shortly before the violence says at once, peace and saddam, as do china, russia, the u. e and saudi arabia, which is brokering seismic p steels, reconfiguring the middle east and arab world, that go straight to virginia home of cia headquarters to speak to someone who has been li, most widely distributed into been a journalist in the whole of africa. thomas mountain tama salvage. yeah,

no speed you from c i a headquarters, i'm just saying you're in virginia and i'm not trying to cuss any. it's worse is a terrible, terrible figures coming from saddam in all seriousness. a pulling news coming out. but unlike the ukraine, when a to nation media know exactly everything about that situation about the war began last february when it comes to sit on the i, they look confused. and boy, they just don't know when the shooting step started. they, they hadn't been told which side to back. you know, this region you lived in this region. what is going on? well, you know, again, this is denise air force, pilots or bombing civilian populations in the capital cartoon and elsewhere. this has been going on since sunday and everybody's quiet about me. there's videos on the whole city blocks and i'm getting billed out and car to was welcome. a air

force is bombing its own capital city and rural is enough in ours. what's going on really is that there is a c, i back pension name, general br hon. who's eat back by a judge is an a c, r. and he was trying to eliminate his competition, which is general. ha, mattie was head of a step by mean you don't saying that i me behind didn't get the ok from washington to start using jets. warplanes to bomb a really bombard the capital. well, brown is pretty much there, man, in sudan. i mean, he's easy to really easy a, provide hundreds of tons of weapons to the c i back attempted, pu against ethiopian government to grab people's liberation from. he's been trying to normalize relations with israel, which the u. s. is very supportive. rock hill on sundays news shows our egyptian

air force base in a way, in sudan be captured by the r a. so, i mean, this is in, airplanes are being used to threaten ethiopia because they're so that, i mean, each up is demanding that they control even control the water. so, i mean, brown is been basically dancing for the cia in the region. ok, well, and that's just get on as a whole lot. let's just get on to the strategic because you mentioned ethiopia that which is a whole nother element in extended. i mean, to an extent because it was accused of being part of a propaganda operation. in recent years that the t p i left with some kind of freedom fighters, even the western media eventually had to give up on that one. and i got to say, i'll see, see, of egypt quote says, quote, will not interfere in the internal as a saddam will continue to ever it's for achieving a sci fi. what is happening. it's a don, is an internal matter should not be interfered with. we are in contact with the

sudanese forces and the rapid support forces you mention, ethiopia, that there's been a peace process there with eritrea, which is been the most sanctioned country in the world. now russia, now rusher is what, what is that relationship is that, is that the complexity here as regards trying to destabilize that piece, deal between the leaders of eritrea and ethiopia. and just you might just have to stop by mentioning the bible, man, that straits him. why washington looks upon this region is the most strategic on right. well, the horn of africa is probably one of the most strategic regions on the planet. most of the trade between you and asia passes through there and a container ships. and so there's 2, tow place there's up in the north, the suez canal, and solve at the bottom. and now the u. s. is kind of in or between a rock and

a hard place here, because iran in saudi arabia are making peace. and saudi arabia is what i call their via damn, is coming, the war is coming to a close and on that and the other side of the red sea is richer, which refuses to kneel down to u. s. and germany. so u. s. isn't a bad spot because they can't control the bomb and them, they got a serious credibility problem, the rest of the world. so, you know, the horn of africa is strategically critical, and that's why the c, i has been spending billions of dollars for many decades law. trying to prop up a policeman on the beat. they lost their police on the beat when the t p. a last worse removed from power and what i call the peaceful revolution in ethiopia in 2018. and they try to bring the t peel out back to power in early november, 2020 through a military coup which was defeated mainly faxed to the intervention at it and requested ethiopian government by the return military. so reach him if you have

grown very close fighting their common enemy and the ethiopian people in the region, people are not really. i don't think the bond is unbreakable. and this is got the americans upset because ethiopia is one of the largest countries in africa. and it's strategically located on, you know, closer to la bowman them. so that's sort of the background why the u. s. is worried and are, you know, basically with the fall of the t p. i love that lab or hon and sudan as their main pension in the region. and now it looks like brand is falling. i mean, we haven't heard from them other than what's going confess. you know, i called the secretary of cas us blinking the tools claim the conversation with frontier blink blink and says it's mean to be in talking to them. but i mean, the history of colonialism, imperialism in that region, is dividing and ruling clearly. and they,

you're explaining how that age of divide and rule is failed in the one of africa v, the o'beirne, eritrea, it's been very successful in sudan, arguably they've had hollywood, george clooney in south sudan and the da for so cool genocide, which scholars, people can watch are interviewed my mood, ma'am dani of princeton. debunking a lot of the midst about that. but they, i think going to be successful this time because just as russia was getting this bass, which the united states daily don't want the sydney's bays in port sit down on the red sea and pieces breaking out around these areas. can they not just triangulate? they can save you hope you're going to build a good dam, which hydro electric li, depresses water supplies to cairo. they've got south, sir. don is the proxy. they're, they've got him metty to they come back committee maybe next week against the board . and just keep doing this, the americans have the money. well, you know, he's got

a track record of, you know, wanting to have a civilian government. and in sudan, i mean, when the civilian rule came back to power, after the cool that behind and orchestrated against brush here is former own word, or how mattie went to reach her and left a few hours after you landed in cartoon. most of the still now, you know, so how many is backtrack or just last one from actually was in read sure. you know, reach it has a saying all horns, all road still peace in the heart of rock or run through our model richer. so, you know, i'm actually going there and coming back home, but see the u. s. doesn't want that. you don't want that piece in the heart of after they want to have their own pension and power and perhaps been the guy they want. they've actually, you know, basically still buying a lot of them to do, to who's without any real repercussion. so, you know, and that is,

looks like he's winning this war. i mean, it's hard to say from lynchburg, but, you know, we follow very closely. the news in the region, and i, my wife speaks the language is there. so they present anyway. i know you're, you're monitoring all the, all the conversations and then the radio transmissions. but of course, m f m, as he's views weren't even really telegraph to the wider public. he, unlike, unlike we're, hon, did apologize for the lack of a transition to civilian government the what is the role of a donation media in this and the elite class of, and i, i don't know whether you call them an n g o class of kweisi usa the funded elite in this region then appears talking heads on television programs and then volleyball. the say no, this is norris f qu against this great leader boron who was in the process of

transferring to try a civilian rule to a civilian rule that no doubt would also have been peopled by people, perhaps educated in the united states. and part of that complex, well, you know, what the western countries, especially us, doesn't want his real pan african isn't solidarity. breaking out in the heart of africa. and you know, people starting to stand up to what's best for their own interest rather than what's best for the western interest. and i'm hopefully, and that is part of that movement. you know, we can never tell. but right now he looks like the best choice. but you know, he is supported by, he'll be an in reach or both of which want to see peace in sudan. nobody wants to see war and cigar. nobody wants to see the sooner these people suffering, which has been getting worse and worse on the brown. i mean, even brush here as bad as he was, the people had brandy, but in sudan for under brown, people are hungry. i mean, that's a problem. see. so the, the west basically once the control region,

they want to keep their hands and people that are pro west in power, people that are recognize israel and so on and so forth. and this is why the west has been supporting behind, you know, i mean, sudan is part of the arab nubian shield, which is one of the 3 richest mineral concentrations on the planet, which includes retro parts of ethiopia and saudi arabia. and you know, there's been russian mining in sudan for years, bull jangle mines, another thing. so you know, the west is concerned about that. they want to come and they want to be the ones exploiting those minerals. so, you know, there is a vested interest in the region, but it's mainly the horn of africa as being in the bottom and they've been strategically critical. so, you know, it's interesting how many went to russia last year when he returned shortly after returned bernal's, a press conference and announces the south russian small basin in saddam's red sea

coast. so, you know, it's like how many he's been out there internationally trying are, you know, get bilateral relations and other things. and, you know, so i think scott, especially as malaysia calls from nations will russia and scatter was word, almost wild. now stop you there. more from the most widely distributed in the better journalists in hold of africa. after this brief, ah, ah, ah,

ah, during the 2nd world war in nazi occupied, poland, virginia was a farming region. today. it's part of ukraine. between 1943, a 945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army led by step on bendara. nasa could thousands of poles in valeria in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the mergers were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted. the valinda massacre is without doubt, one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. my al ukrainian politicians, still reluctant to talk about these events, how to modern day ukraine and poland view. this tragedy of the past, and why does the memory of belinda still divide people ah,

welcome back to growing underground. i'm still here with someone who has been the most widely distributed and been a journalist in africa, thomas mountain. of course, her matee, the r s f leader is no in nature nation media, as a private mercenary army contractor was made loads of money associated with the john j o e, the genocide. and for that you might just have to dispel a few of the myths there before we try and analyze it further. what's going on? well, you know, i'm, it is low angel. you know, they used to call the camel general and he got rich, you know, from through his military control of the west. saddam. but he has been supporting civilian rule in the region and military rules. just going to be a disaster. sedans have 30 years to that on the bus year. they don't need it anymore. so sit down, you know, had a well and it pretty much run out. and they used to be rich and oil and also down

started. so, you know, some is going to have to come in and, and, you know, get some hard medicine to the, sued these people. because you know, this, warren cartoon bombing in cartoon surround, has never seen that before. the sit on people are facing work really 1st and most of them on the 1st time. so i think this is kind of a wake up call to the sudanese people that they can't just sit back and, and worry about where they're going to get the bread today they got to deal with, you know, how they going to govern their country, how they're going to get themselves out of this mass, but you know, i just saw reports and said that this, most of the sudanese people want to reach or to come in immediate this problem because look, look at what's going on this war. you've got bahamas, the sudanese army, 250000 people with armor, air force, helicopters, fighter bombers tanks. and then you've got committees force $100000.00, which is basically a militia mounted on pickup trucks, with any aircraft, and a small cans. what i, you know, how come behind hasn't just question well,

you know, to me, it looks like it's the other way around. major surrenders are taking place from bronze in a circle. so any case, you know how many he's going to have a really tough time. 100000 men controlling a huge country, likes it on of over 40000000 people. so you're going to need some mediation because, i mean not only is br han got his supporters, you've got a bus, you're the former president, those are with your own. that is supporters and it's a very complex situation is going to require some really expert mediation. and what would, what would the tony blank and, and the biden white has to do if party is there. and even the middle class, condra elites who are interviewed on a donation media television networks, who appear to just say, everyone is bad in terms of leadership, not really saying i the way the geopolitical the influences on either body. what, what would the buy wife have say if, as mara became the talking,

talking place and i should say, the united nations has said very little concrete in terms of progressing piece after the violence about food as well. the one thing the u. s. is very much against is a reach or having any role in promoting peace in the back of the u. s. policy is crisis management. it's been that way for many, many decades. create a crisis and they manage that crisis to better losing plunder the resources of the region. they don't want strong national government, you know, uniting the region developing peaceful cooperation and independence from the west. they want small, broken up countries that you know, have to kneel down and accept whatever they're called, whatever they're handed out. so, you know, originally i'm getting logged on as you, i want to us worst nightmare. i mean that's what they don't want. you know, the history of you don't think the $331000000.00 announcement blinking, given to addis ababa is something of concern as regards peace.

well, you know, if you go over a 100000000 people, so you know, it got more. why did lincoln do that? why did lincoln just announce that? well, you know, the violence, i mean he's like, he's got his act is a carrot and a stick. i mean, we can't just come in and, and try to be easy over the head. they try to bribe them, i mean, they're offering them, you know, because it's got all this odious debt, which they should just declared is that billions and billions of dollars. so i am after the war back, which was run, the debt was run up under the very corrupt r u. s. lackey, machine the machine before, i'll be fine as the power. so it easy is kind of a hard spot to short a foreign currency. they need, i, m f, money die m f is saying, listen, you got to do this, you got to do that. and what they really want is they want, if you'll be able to reach the other part ways,

which usually people are talking. oh wow. so, you know, i mean, i was, i mean, the head of the ethiopian military recently came out and said on national tv we owe originally had debt. we don't know how we're going to pay it. in other words, when to reach a, c, d, c o, b, a from a see i support instigated if you will be out knows who saved and that was a re just so i don't want to you you think of in terms of the more recent violence of the bailiff were involved in the gray region to stop the peace process. but the amount of weaponry going in there was quite substantial. do you think lincoln and the by and white us would would send more military weapons and armaments to boron, as he runs out of ammunition fighting, fighting a messy and said on well, you know, i just saw report my wife just saw report that the are a staff under her mental captured 200 sudanese army tanks. the,

basically the city's army just left his major arms the ball and said here, you know, is yours. i mean, these report so far they've all been turning out to be true. those from reliable sources we've been trusting for years, and so you know, it doesn't look good for hahn. i don't see how he's going to hold up. i mean, is headed is military intelligence surrender on sunday that one of the senior general so ended on sunday. another senior general was captured on sunday. i mean, this is from a lightly armed militia forest fighting one of africa's biggest armies. and yet things are going got bad for were on. i mean, even if the send more arms are already the arms are blank, you know, going to the other side. i don't see how they're going to be on the same for on other than, you know, maybe i don't actually, there's no way they can say, i don't think, but we'll see. and do you think the, do you think, i mean, there's the rush or africa summit in july in st. petersburg? do you think russia, china, you, a side area and others have already assumed this position that him,

if he is the next transitional ruler and got to, it's coming up and it's a big deal. and, you know, it's going to be a breakthrough in our african moving away from western domination. that's clear. and that are some of the featured people are going to be, for example, region president. besides, are you there and be less a big deal because, you know, it reaches only 4000000 people, but the foreign ministers are russia, china, and india. why is it? and we try not too distant past, you know, so i mean, that's no blame, no blinking in as much on as many tours because we know all over the world as me following leverage. some people say didn't visit as mar noticeably. i don't know if he's not welcome there. i mean, any, just, yes, i mean, you know, the u. s. is like, i say it's, you know, it's in a tight spot. it's not a whole lot they can do. besides make a lot of noise and trenton sanctions on. hm. yeah. they are threatening sanctions. i saw that the blinking was very quickly going. you know, we could close down bank account. could that be? could that be an issue?

i mean, how far do you think washing is going to go at war with russia? 3 grain against china in the south china sea. and now in what was the largest country in africa will just fight and, and you think this time around, egypt will come round to the arab majority view, which is washington's presence in this region has not been greatly beneficial in the bus to 50100 years. well, you know, there's actually a very desperate financial situation and you know, cost of living is growing up very rapidly and there's hunger breaking on the job. so we just, and government is, you know, not in the strongest position and their own population and a junction. so it has been captured by our so airplanes been captured by the saffron. now sunday, it was a different people. so i mean, you know, what you just going to do is that's a tough one because, you know, are listening is investors,

china. presumably they're not going to continue down this. i m f. well bank both. i know they have to an extent, but obviously they are looking to bricks in the chang. i cooperation organization. yeah. and, you know, i mean, so it's, it's, it's hard to say where he's, it's going to go because they're still pretty much dependent on western largest to survive. but i know they know that there's no future in that. everybody starting to see that, i mean, look and saw me this in the future and it's american dollars generally. so i mean is a major move away from the u. s. and this is a serious problem to us. i mean like i say that between a rock and a hard spot and what are they going on? the only people that could possibly intervene in saddam would be dishing military and i don't see that happening. i mean, i really dont amounting to dish and people be happy about it. yes. so that needs to be a colony of egypt under the british. and so i, and as this school size me to, i mean behind himself, he just is calling say, he's one of our people. so i mean,

i don't see the, just in a reading militarily because it would cost too much domestic got work. but although you think that he would get americans about even ahead of the south africa, brick summit, which some people are calling the beginning of the end of a u. s. and byron, suddenly the continent of africa. well, you know, this is all like you say times are changing really fast. i mean, a month or 2 ago who would have thought that saudis and iran would be making peace and the warrant. i'm going to be coming to a close, you know, mean who would have thought that perhaps most likely to fall in the u. s. would use its last major engine in order back when it's just, i mean i'm sort of sitting back and having to absorb it all and not just jump out right out. and sam, what i think is going to happen because this is a big, big world changing events that are taking place. and are, you know, you gotta, you gotta come digested a bit. but you know, you can see what's obvious and that the u. s. is in

a bad spot that they're losing control or they lost control of ethiopia. you know, looks like they're about to lose. a lot of their influence on. i mean, they've got asia, but it is sort of looking away from us, had germany. i mean, it's like there's a lot of headaches on the horizon from the us and i just hope they don't insight. i call them blinking the whole because he does really stupid things. and if he's gonna try to send me a suit on my, you know, but he knows americans seem to be capable of the most un, dental and savage. i'm just fine the i mean, why do you think what you be saying during this interview is so different to the talking heads you see on american british media since the fighting kicked off in got to usually we see eye witnesses who can speak english, beautifully, explaining that they just one piece and not really expressing support either way

for either of the 2 generals and others saying this is all terrible with no real context tool as far as i could make out. well, you tell me, why is it if i didn't finish it, read it out now? well, to sometime around the 10th or 11th of april committee and our asset got wind that brown was going to move to eliminate them. and they move very rapidly into strategic positions and actually sort of jumped the gun on brown and brown has been on the back foot since then. i mean bronze. i think the soon his army finally demanded that our surrender their weapons, which they refused and fighting, broke out on saturday. 15th of april. so, you know, this like got things have been developing very rapidly. and saddam and, but i suspect it's going to slow down and what i mean maybe is going to have to capture these bases and shut them down. maybe, you know,

who knows where it's going to happen after that. i mean, maybe they're gonna have to go to easiest or refuel in the arm, but you know, there's a lot of potential stumbling blocks in this piece process. but the best sign is that the sudanese people seem to want a retreat come mediate, which is, you know, sure, i had a waiter to come to some consensus, you know, not winning and losing but consensus. so both sides got to win and both sides got to lose. and they're going to come to a piece that will last, both parties sitting down and hammer it out too intense, exhausting negotiations, not to ultimatums and sanctions, but to consensus base negotiations. this is the only way you're really going to come to our lasting piece and the reason, and this is what i read your specializes. and so hopefully this is what will take place though i suspect the united states is going to do everything they can that prevent this from happening. now miss martin, thank you. you're welcome and hope to have see you again soon. that's over the show

. on monday, we'll be back again with one of the greatest journalist in the world, pulitzer prize winning seymour hersh after his brand new revelations of ca, ukraine, corruption. meanwhile, you can give a judge my role as social media, if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going on, the grantee hon dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground. see you monday ah ah ah

yeah, i'll probably just for laughs will come, rakish, falls, leave your keys in one of our lamps pumped on. you next week i all through from joseph williams. what cecilia shook william, responded eve, new considerable obese. those are asking me brains committees on them not to respond on the score to leaders of tomorrow. we have the quality of the not sure how the serial router comes up with the holiday and still maybe citizens by deena seabrook castaway hostels, are eating slowly group. we are going use only of i'm assuming that somebody sent me a bundle megan put on hold on to post t r. c. bonded officer mobbing a couple of those to some of on the job junior antiquity odyssey bundled of civilian will. you can still continue much congestive due to these people taking a huge to me. it mused the guy that is the youngster amused or did not order like you mobile isms crew. also built fog is a from the already saw.