a usa policy for school and city and the prevalence of but yet with a youth can that would be useful ah, with ah hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered on peter labelle in light of nato's assertion this past week that ukraine will be a member of the military alliance? is nato planning for a direct military intervention and ukraine?

if yes, then it intends on going to war with russia. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess martin j in mary cash. he is an award winning journalist and commentator and in budapest cross to george somali. he's a podcast at the goggle, which we found on youtube and locals. are i gentleman cross talk rules and effect? that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated. or let's start with george in budapest, george we had the secretary general of nato of nato, still to burger. he visited ukraine, actually for the 1st time since the conflict started um media reports, it was unplanned. i have a hard time believing that. um, but you know, what could be passed off is boiler plate commentary. ukraine will become a member of the military alliance. i don't take it boiler plate, i take them very,

very seriously. the kremlin has taken it very seriously to in and out. it begs the question. if russia is its intentions for this entire operation is to on a deny ukraine, nato membership and nato persists. that means we go up the escalation, lanner, george? yes, either. that's exactly right, because the issue of a ukraine's membership of nature is at the heart of this conflict. and if you insist upon the declaring that ukraine will be a member of nato, something that it isn't written to the nato to decide it's up to lee the countries all native of $31.00. now, members of that states of later to decide, but if you insist on that, it's very hard to see how any kind of a peace agreement is now civil and shoulder, but really isn't interested in any piece. agreement is clearly that he is declaring

that, well we, we have to go towards victory. and this is something that a p to you and i have discussed before, nato is nato leaders. now declare that russia will not dare to escalate to nuclear weapons as best a position. now though, we don't have to worry about russia escalating to nuclear. ah, but we, we need to, however, already to escalate. so sure. russia just for, you know, move one h, one, ange, ah, to the west, we are ready to go all out and we are ready to escalate. so when you combine that with these categorical declarations that are we, you know, that her ukraine will be a native then these, i think we're in a very dangerous situation yet because martin, this is, it didn't have to be, but it's being, it's being, it's been turned into an existential conflict, one side wins, one side loses and that, that, that is a craven choice on the,

on the part of, of nato washington. okay. because we haven't, we haven't heard anything. come out of the biden administration about how to end this conflict at all. and it has its obvious for if these so called intelligence leaks are true. which george and i am can contest there, you know, their, their veracity. um, it shows that this has, has almost nothing to do with ukraine anymore. it all has to do with the west, brushing russia. that's what it's gotten down to learn. yeah. and did it, did it ever happen? it's julia crane. i wonder. yeah. um, this, this statement from so from the ne, so sick to general are somewhat astounding. and i don't know whether they can even be believable or they, they seem to be as believable as the pence can leaks. i also take about a skeptical view of pens can leaks by where i've been writing by this recently. and what is all this about? i mean, can we get helicopter view of it and try and get some clarity?

is it that the media fodder is running out? is we just don't have enough to send to the journalist by the container load. you know, the stocks are running very, very low. and we need some more polemic statements that are going to get really excited on. is it the nate? so actually believe that so narrative does. nato actually believe that we can get to a point whereby nature membership ukraine is even viable. i'm not sure, i think may be the name of the nation chief stone, but actually might well believe i'm so whether it's got the support of mistakes. mother, massa, you said about budget and we know how to think about budget on this. i didn't think we're going to hear anything. it's all from bud and living. he's gonna, he's gonna campaign now is looking up, which tick off at the end of summer. you know, i'm wondering whether this is george mentioned or alluded to. i think this is definitely a way of ruling out any possible chance of talks between the western russia and what is the definitive thing that you can do. you can actually state that ukraine

could be a nation member at some point to me it seems like a bluff. it seems like a blast because we know that it's very easy for countries to become this members willing to go is the backing from the parliament, sweden and finland recently. we saw that, but it's, it's a big deal with ukraine. it's not just the cleaning parliament, it's going to sign that are going to be america and britain, which will have to sign off as well. and i can't really imagine the one, you know, in century issue of nature members who ukraine being signed off. because what does that mean? that means then there is no other decision making process whatsoever for us to send troops to you. great now, and then how good your memory is. but a few months ago when you show, i said it was only a matter of time before the british american troops sent to ukraine. i wonder if we are running up now. because the statement, i wonder if i wonder if nato is preparing us because the big institutions like nature was like to repair the ground when we started off sending jets by to jess

not getting the results that they want. i mean, the order of one final push to destroy russia, the white brush off the map and the time does that happen in history? georgia? unfortunately. so we've got boland, the baltic states check republic, slovakia, they're all on board and they want, they somehow want those grades counselor with russia. they know plus no other than are going to be doing the fighting and all of this. but it's a way of provoking this conflict and then invoking article 5. that's the thing that's i said once, once wherein, and russia retaliates against that, that a article 5, article 5 and the united states i go in the u. k is also seems to be on board list . so that thou the, the skeptics when we were always thinking about france and germany, they don't seem to have much of a seen all of this. and particularly when you have the german foreign minister, alina babble, who's also on board with this, and,

and the increasing belligerents coming from germany. not so much from sergeant shoals, but, but from the rest of it, i mean, been now had, yet again another diplomatic, a spot with, with russia, with 20 diplomats on either side being expelled. so this is an ongoing thing. and so really the skeptics are really just pushed out from all of this. and i think there's also a, you know, a lot of troubling things that are going on on, on your peripheral inferences in a week. this the story that appeared and we discussed it on the gaggle in the washington post, that very long article suggesting that any ah peace movement in germany must be essentially banned. because this is entirely engineered by the kremlin. and then we have in the united states, suddenly the, just as the pop bringing indictments against some obscure ha left this socialist

hub black nationalist movement because they're being directed by the kremlin. so it will missile, is it a preparatory? we're, we're being prepared for a crackdown on free speech in anticipation of well, both 3 it with martin and my article 5 has been written here of mentioned here. i mean, what is it value? i mean, if we, if it's supposed to be a pensive mechanism to, you know, as churns now it's being flipped on and said, let's see how we can get it in vote. i mean, this is the world that we're living in learn. yeah. i'm, you should also remember that it is completely uncharted territory. you know, i think you mentioned on your own show a couple months ago that this is not on libya or syria. this is russia, you know, we're going to war with russia and i, i think there needs to be a real wake up call from nature member states to exactly what they're getting in. so we can, can we really even envisage article 5 scenario where other countries would then

arrive amount of ukrainians border and cross it? and, and we're, we're, we're in a world was recently already. and you know, you say about france, germany will germany is looking at this situation and thinking, if that were to happen, what would putin do to our own country to germany? there would be complete greenlight cop gosh, talk for putin to send rockets into the, into the germany, across, across poland or even tank divisions or across poland. they've said this they've, they've voice this. so i'm, i'm skeptical though we can ever get to this doomsday scenario from me. but it's, it's a deep chicken. that's what it, i me, the global, if it can be, you mentioned, you mentioned, go on mercenaries. this is what i'm beginning to think more and more is the plans. see? i don't think we're ever going to get to plan b. we get to plan b as a tool for threatening for provoking media coverage and stirring up attention. but we can't really pull off the idea of ukraine being and i to member thus just part 2, dangers of how to fanciful the plan c. i think, is there

a compromise plan going on here? where by nature, countries could start thinking about training, perhaps covertly mercenaries. now that sounds completely far fetched or sounds crazy, doesn't it? but hang on a minute, britain allowed hundreds of young libyan man with british passports to travel to libya, to fight with al qaeda groups to overthrow the so called you know, mad dog duffy. so it's not as far, sal, i think, i wonder whether nature members now as time to panic. the looking at some the, the, the, the ground forces russian grandfather in back moot who have taken a considerable part of that region. and i wondering, will we survive back mood falling? i have a pronounced correct. i'm sure some will correct me. will we actually survive this goose live it on a public image level? we survive it. you know, even even on crush will have it will not be the end of nature because of that holes . you know, happens in was when, when one side makes a decisive victory. it doesn't stop them to stop and break out the boughs of

a crate. so big they carry on, as i mentioned, you know, because you destroy the morale of your enemy. and i'm wondering whether they'll start to panic. now, western countries on needlepoint martin, if there's a sense of panic in the air and when you're buying it, is gonna be rationally. that's what makes it a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on your current state. ah, ah ah, ah

ah ah ah ah, i am exemptions and i am here to plead with you whatever you do,

you do not watch my yourself seriously. why watch something that's so different. opinions that you won't get anywhere else. welcome it pleases you to have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead. i change and whatever you do. don't watch my show stay mainstream because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you think . ah, welcome at the cross tucker. all things are considered on peter bill. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real name. but in the west it's we have to stick with that because if we don't win, then the other side wins. and then this is the most terrible thing. so there was never any discussion as to what actually is. there was a, the interest,

the national interest of anyone in the west. what, what difference does it make to you? what happens in your brain? it's a, it's never explained on, well, this is a, this, or if a moral turpitude love happens if a russia wins. so because of that, then there is simply really no debate in the matter. and therefore, only requires is with the media continues to whip this up and say, hey, the, the, the fatally well, depends on what goes on in ukraine. and this is the problem, this there. so few rational voices that say this is that this is really nonsense or on know, a sensual interest at stake, bowl, the west scare and, and that's why this, which is continue down this path of escalation. it's hard to see how is the how and where it stops, because, you know who they, you know,

going back into shelton. but he's pretty much saying that when he doesn't really matter what anybody says about the matter, this is just going to happen. we're just simply going to go ahead if they, the ukraine would just be integrated within nato. without anyone having any vote in the matter a, we would just replace the soviet era weapon rate with nature weaponry. and that's all the rest of it. and you're just going to have to accept this, and the, and the russians will be standing by watching the entire time. that's what i mean in america. one of the, one of the, everything's about this. we've talked about civil liberties already here. but i mean, because of this, um, almost a blank check that it, this is the only way that is going to be, you can suppress a civil liberties. it somehow legitimizes austerity for the, for how the distortions of the economy. you know, people in the mainstream media talking about will europe survive the winter?

well, of course it did, but it's in the winter coming. that's going to be the difficult one. not the one that just passed here and see because, you know, a nato must expand, it must have ukraine and it's the reason why to cover up so many other issues that are, are bubbling up in western societies all because of ukraine. i mean, i don't see how that washes, but it certainly is a, um, a, it's, it's a way for the lead to legitimize the status quo. go ahead and set some massive conspiracy to distract media. america, my american friends are, comes to me telling me we don't have health care in america. i think what they mean is free health care. and yet you go to defense budget of what is it? 700000000. 8 am 800 meters. i'm not even sure if we can send a 100000000000 to ukraine. there comes a point and i guess it will be at the end of the summer when the us election

campaign starts. there comes a point where anough, blue collar people ask joe by this people look what the hell are we doing? and ukraine, why are we selling a $100000000.00 there? when we got people here living on the streets and can't get healthcare? you talk about covering up these issues, it doesn't only happen on a national level. you sure. many, many journalists know not writing about healthcare environments, climate change, the economy. i'm in preference for am so, so some of these subjects, but it's also, it's a isic isic genius moved by on the west also to not look at the international subjects . i mean, just look at is roles, treatment of palestinians in the last 6 months. have you noticed it's got a lot worse. have you noticed the atrocities or just beyond any of our imaginations now it's just gone. it's gone beyond a pale, now it's gone over line. no, we can't even envisage county mansion and the horrors that go on that is not getting reported. and the reason why it's not getting reported is because there is

this binary approach to international media, which ne, 2, people understand very well, which is, you know, let's focus on the big story. big stories, ukraine. we invest the money in your kind. we sent our correspondence there. you know, we were the coffers a very low. but i don't think this can go on forever. you know? i think there is a check. it that, that's the big question because you know, we, we had rice again. we had coven, i mean they have actually have resources to get to control the narrative. you also, george, isn't it very curious. again, these leaks, i get, i can't really make heads or tails of it. but there is one interpretation of ukrainians are not winning. we have to double down, ok, we can, it's actually, they're trying to manipulate how people feel about it, what we have to win there. so what should we do? so, in a way, a, this is kind of helping the standard narrative that you need to do more plus, you know, the u. s. is falling and it's, it's international reputation. china is taking over all the more so to support

ukraine. it's bizarre. did it? it is, you can never lose. if your crown is winning, therefore we must stand in even more because a they winning, we, you know, victories within our grass. if your grain is not winning, if it is losing a will send, more hours will prevail. so there's always a rationale for sending even more. and the problem is, is that, of course, many people in america saying, well, what the hell are we doing and why, why we're spending all this money on ukraine when they're all these domestic problems that remain unattended to. however, that voice never prevails. i mean, they, it's the amazing aspect of the american political system of the political systems, as well as the actual desires of the public never really percolates of says, you know, we, we have our political debates, you know, they, they interact with all the favor journalists,

and and the germans never ask those very questions. but what the hell are you doing spending this money on ukraine and not at home instead? how much more can we do for kids? well, you know what, what if russia wins will? what's gonna happen then? they're always asking questions that the politicians can then, you know, sweep away with ease on it, or the political system operates with. but there's, there, it's, it's as close luma a statement. lincoln, he's seymour hersh strongly believes that he's involved with the destruction of the north free pine line of news over the last few cycles. well, who's, who's the origin of the 50 foreign policy expert said, saying that they're under run by new laptop was a russian dis information. when is he asked any questions by the media? will he ever be asked the the, any of these questions? it's i, i don't think so. i had worked no, but i going back to the earlier point, you know what we are watching?

i think george is wrong. i'm gonna, i'm gonna, i'm gonna put my thank my fist on the table. i think you're wrong about these questions. i think they are starting to be asked if you look at the washington post coverage of but moot just a couple days ago. the headline um reset duct ukrainian church clinging on now the washington post is the stalwart defender and supporter of biden and, and under democrats. to use that works on the can't you just flip that in to say, but you know, we now we have to interview day to has to intervene and we just have the interview with one of the reasons for that. that's that spin of the story. when you go to putting to talk, but it put into context, i think i think you crying the ukraine program needs to when it needs to advance me to buy meets if it does not advance and nothing happens in as a stalemate of status quo. by definition, russia is winning, and i think some of the jonas assigned to wake up to this and they are starting to asked is more difficult question is not a great number, i admit, but i think, but it to take george to talk. i think it's starting to feel the go,

okay. questions for us are being honest with you and i just a little on the point that i'm not made. but not as a, as a point of contention has been for some time between the americans and the kia, and they've made it, the americans have made it clearly numerous. so, us scoops will washing to pose the new york times, that they don't think it's worth it or the go on fighting for bach mode. they want ukraine to focus on the counter offensive, the supposed counter offensive in the break the of the land bridge to crimea. so that the, the, what the washing to post reports is really part of a kind of an ongoing i. li can count a league of this, this is narrative that the americans want, which is stop it already with baffled waste of resources, focus on this land bridge and crimea. ok. and then also it also gives people in the pentagon said, well, we told them, you know, not to do it. they're always looking for an escape at, i had to,

they're not going to be held responsible for this. okay. i well we have one more minute left. go ahead learn. well, yeah, i think it's george, george is right, but he's still a real town and it is still very symbolic and it will, it is still very crushing to the morale of ukrainian troops. so, but i think more crushing on, i think more relevant is the timing of this nature statement about m, ukraine nature membership. i think it's really important that lensky is starting to get nervous. he's done to get nervous about the timeline, about the number of, of military kids that can be sent to ukraine in the, in the time span. before we hit winter, you mentioned winter before the last winter was quite mild. if the next one isn't so mog, things may will be very different. but let's not remember that zalinski was the one who reached out to china at the end of february and said, call me now that has to be spoken americans. there's no way the bible can sleep well at night with this scenario that the as a j, it's china comes in and broke as

a piece too, because the credibility of nate's, i would just collapse. people with a lot of people reduce people will think of nato is nothing more than a talk shop by the arab league. or, you know, you're all in little something stupid if, if china comes in and i'm glad zalesky said he wants them to come in. you know, that changes the game completely, so i wonder whether this panicking from nature is really about zalinski his own position. and that's what when we run out of time gentlemen, but we all agree on that. we see we can smell and see panic in the air, and that's why we all said being very, very worried. always too little time for these big, big topics here. want to thank my guess in budapest and medication, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, the next time, remember, crossed apples. ah, ah, hungary has been a member of the european union and nato since 1999 during the 1st post soviet wave

of nato's eastward expansion number be still hello? yes, the my logo thanks is dilemma a c. like by the quantity e. so me that me, if so with actual zappa luma edge to have what we show every me are still modular beach grass who, what i see also marsh roy, a mug woochie strongly in the early ninety's hungry was a country with the worst view of russia due to historical disagreements left over from the soviet union. your younger in was, oh, you know what any someone like yours or what i see if you wrote a political more than as what i see is great. and i did it at the political of those with

ah, my z m, you put me coin, lee, that i legal us. that nick come mozy yet need to get the nickelback presented pasta. you nash, personal nash federal ban yet? i knew him. scott's industrial robots see, she did so just appeared on by the only chill out us, but that's a girl, mr. i'm see less than that. i last. if you at the army, you can use that as a way to get new programs continue listening. it's given the fact that there was news that was just shortly about making me serious. i'm is.