i lose me the hello, i'm manila chan you are tuned into modus operandi. they are wanted by foreign government for alleged crimes that occurred away from the shores in which they are found in some 50 percent of countries around the world. if the united states demand you be found and handed over, the likely outcome is that you will be brought state side to face the american justice system. but is the same true when other countries demand americans be sent back to face their court. this week will examine the extradition imbalance faced by

countries who signed treaties with the us, with pulitzer prize winning journalist chris hedges. alright, let's get into the m, the, me and us really a national has been the center of controversy for years, wanted by the united states, over alleged crimes that found him hold up in a 3rd party countries embassy in london, england now locked away at a maximum security prison awaiting extradition to the us. the prosecution of julian assad by the full weight of the u. s. government has given rise to the discussion of extradition more broadly, especially since for decades the u. k. has had a bilateral extradition treaty with its trans atlantic allied. yet when it comes to the deadly car accident caused by c, i, a operative and the coolest. near

r u. k. air base. the u. s. rejected the formal request to send an american to london to face the u. k. courts. now these are just 2 examples of a laundry list of many who highlight the extradition imbalance between the u. s. and the rest of the world. joining us to discuss is a man who has covered many of these extradition cases, most recently, reporting directly on the assange extradition trial is pulitzer prize winning writer, former mideast bureau chief before the new york times. his latest book called the greatest evil is war. now host of the chris hedges report on the real news network . mr. chris hedges. chris, thank you so much for being with us 1st, chris, let's start with perhaps the highest profile extradition case in the world right now. that would be of julian assange. it would appear that his attorneys in the u. k. are running out of appeals and he will likely be brought to the us to face

espionage charges that would effectively result in a life sentence. now data from the d o j shows that they have an astounding 97 percent conviction rate of those extradited to the us. does it appear that the u. k . has sort of relinquished its sovereignty of jurisdiction due to decades old extradition treaties with the u. s. and that julian is a victim of that, among other things well from the beginning for those of us who have followed the case closely. this has been judicial farce. there are all sorts of legal anomalies that should have invalidated this case. a long time ago we can begin with a fact that julian has not committed a crime. he didn't do anything different from what the new york times the guardian dare spiegel. and l p. s. did when they published the iraq war logs. remember

that's what he's being charged with under the espionage at 17 counts. so it's 170 years if he's convicted on all counts on another 5 years for hacking into a government computer, although he didn't hack into a government computer. chelsea manning leak the documents did not need to hack into the computer or chelsea manning had done all of the passwords security clearance to get into the computer to to pass the documents on to wiki weeks. then we have u. c global, the spanish security firm that set up cameras and recording devices throughout the ecuador and embassy in london. and turned over all of that. take to the cia vis a rating attorney, client privilege. we have the fact that julian is not a us citizen. so there's that question of how he can even be charged under the espionage act. wiki weeks is not

a us based publication. so i've sat in on the trials and then during coven was getting up at 5 in the morning and getting links to follow the trials of the video stream. and when you look at all of the details of the case, and i think that's one of the reasons why the u. k. judicial system made it so difficult to cover. it's clear that this is not the best of british jurisprudence, but the luby, aka. so i, i think all was from the beginning have assumed that he would be expedited, remember, he wasn't extra dieted under when the ruling, the expedition ruling was made by merisa. it wasn't because she found any of the charges against julian invalid. in fact, she endorsed all of the charges against julian, but it was very clear that he was a suicide risk. there was just no way i'm going to hear attempted suicide. and his

psychological, physical, and psychological health is extremely precarious. there is no way to deny it. and so she blocked the extradition based on the fact that he had a high suicide. there was a high potential for suicide. that has been appealed, was appealed by the u. s. and now it's back in the lower court. they will challenge merisa on the substantial issues be the u. s. gave in a diplomatic note assurances that he would be taken care of any wouldn't be in florence, colorado, the superman, 80 x prison before trial without of course saying nobody is held pre trial in atx florist. and so i think for those of us will follow, that seems pretty clear that he will be expedited probably by the end of this year

to the eastern district court of new york, which has a track record as you pointed out of doing the government's dirty work in terms of its quote unquote, terrorism laws. so we all of us to support julian and press freedom because the consequences of this for the press are catastrophic. it means that anyone who possesses classified material or publishes them or both, can now be charged under the espionage act as a precedent. it would. i worked for the new york times for 15 years. i possess classified material and i published it. and it will essentially put on iron wall between us and the inner workings of governments. extremely dangerous. but yeah, i think those of us who have been following the case closely don't have much doubt that he will be extradited yet. you mention how the u. k. court made it difficult to cover julian's case. does this then allude to the u. k. effectively acting as

a basle state for the us in the way of arresting people? you know, i mean, there is provision in u. k. law that says that people cannot be extradited for political offences if they are politically persecuted. and of course they have ignored the fact that this is very clear. political persecution, and done the bidding of. but you have the 5 eyes, the security networks are intertwined. they were all sorts of leak documents that were published by weekly leaks that were not flattering to the u. k. i think that it all goes back to the 2017 volt 7 leak. this was wiki weeks, exposing the ability of the cia through back channels to hack all of our electronic devices, even our televisions and our cars and phones and everything else. and that,

that is when you saw the trumpet ministration, demand the expedition prompted by the c. i a, in the intelligence community, demand the expedition of julian. remember that up until then, obama had used the espionage act quite vigorously, almost a dozen times against whistleblowers. great curiosity. oh, curiosity and others who had provided information to the press. but trump ratcheted that up to another level by going after a journalist himself and this case julia. but i think that was driven by the the c eyes, embarrassment and anger over these revelations. and that is the driving force. now, behind the expedition of julia, an extradition case now going in the other direction, answer cool us. the alleged us diplomat, we now know she was a us spy for the cia. she was a wrong way driver near the crown air based in england. she hit and killed

a 19 year old called harry dunn, who was writing a motor bike in august of 2019. she left him to die along the side of the road and fled back to the us, claiming diplomatic immunity at the time. she has since confessed to that tragic accident but has refused to return to the u. k. to stand trial. now back in january of 2020, the u. k issued an official extradition request for her, which my palm pay. oh, who was secretary of state at the time denied that request? is this a reflection of the extradition imbalance? not only between the u. s a u. k, but it would appear that when you look at any random country, the u. s. asked for anybody for any reason that country almost always acquiesces, but it's not true the other way around. yeah, that's exactly right. and we should also be clear that in the case of julian, as i mentioned before, he's not a us citizen. and he did not commit

a crime. so the hypocrisy is not limited to this case. there are numerous cases, including the case of hoss on the stuff of some a nasir in milan, which i can go into if you want in 2003. the u. s. has one set of rules for others. another set of rules for themselves are more to come with chris hedges . don't go anywhere. chris. coming up next. the united states keeps extradition numbers under wraps. the mystery around just how many people the u. s. government brings from a broad and forces to stand trial or unknown. we'll discuss it when we return said type the m. o will be right back a

ah ah, ah ah ah, ah, a ah with what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see

how that strategy will be successful, very difficult, time. time to sit down and talk with the welcome back to the ammo. i'm manila champ pulitzer prize winning journalist chris hedges with his new some stack of the same name has kindly agreed to stick around. so chris, continuing our conversation here more broadly. the u. s. has signed over a 100 extradition treaties with other countries around the world. now that's nearly half of the countries out there, but these aren't necessarily bilateral agreements. what's the tradeoff here?

why would these countries agree to unilateral extradition treaties with the u. s? well, there are all sorts of inducements for any military assistance intelligence assistance plus retribution. if they fail to follow through and these requests and the u. s. use is it's a ponder. and so military and economic power to make these countries bend to their will. and you've got some other examples of kind of bizarre extradition cases that you can tell us about. well, i think the most egregious occurred in milan in 2003. this was an egyptian national, who i mean, right out of peano chaise chilly was stashed in extraordinary rendition off of the streets of milan. and it prompted investigations by in italy culminating the convictions in a sense of 22,

c. c. i. a operatives u. s. air force, colonel and to italian accomplice accomplices. and we actually know because of wikileaks, that there was tremendous pressure put on the bell, a scone government, not to request or demand the expedition of these people already been found guilty of a crime. and was, he was taken to egypt, put in prison in egypt, and very badly tortured. so there is another example of how the united states commits a crime in another country. the crime is documented, it goes through the judicial system. all of those people are given sentences and, and none of them face justice or any kind of repercussions. i mean, that is,

that's unfortunately how the empire works globally. so true extradition numbers are nearly impossible to track in the u. s. because different agencies have different reporting standards and on top of that, according to a report by the council on foreign relations law enforcement or they say political sensitivities preclude many extra additions from being reported officially on the books. so the best they could find was through the u. s. marshal service. they handle the great majority of international extradition. their estimates range wildly between $350.60 expeditions annually. here to the us, that's data coming from 2003 to 2016. what sort of political sensitivities might they mean here? and why can't the public know these numbers? well, because a lot of these people are charged under terrorism was we saw this after 911 fight

hashmi. it would be a good example. he was us citizen, he was right after 911. there was a lot of efforts on the part of the government in the bush administration to shut down all organizations for holy land foundation. anyone who did any work on behalf of palestinians or for for palestinian rights, was obviously pushed by israel. and 911 became the excuse had hashmi was a graduate student in london of the london school of economics. his roommate had been on a cell phone wanting to send non military supplies and waterproof socks or something to help in the fight in afghanistan against us forces. and and i guess a 1.5 us, we use the phone, they use that as an excuse to extradite him. and then he was brought back and just held an isolation for 23 months under sam's is a special administrative measures,

i mean, tortured. and let's be clear that this is what's happening to julian is neil's mel's or the special un special wrapper to or torture is pointed out that he's being tortured. it's a slow motion execution. and, and i mentioned before about julian's psychological state. we know from the court, he's elucidating, seen, banging his head against the wall. they found a razor coverage confiscated in a sox. he's calling the samaritans with about potential committing suicide. eccentric central is also lost. tremendous amounts await the many stroke, etc. and by the time, find me got into the court in manhattan. he was a zombie. i mean, i was there, he didn't, he didn't, i was outside the court, but he didn't have any. he hardly knew where it was. so that that is, i think why they are so quiet. we talked earlier about making it difficult to cover

. i was in the court room with chelsea manning when she was being tried at fort meade for leaking the documents. and there are only 27 visitors allowed in the court room the same with julian, it's so heavily restricted that you have to get up at 4 or 5 in the morning and stand and align, and hope that you can get in. and then although the problems i will say cleared up initially when we were following by video link, there was no audio. the pictures went out, people couldn't get on. so on some level they understand that this is judicial burlesque kind of dickensian, far something out. a bleak house and, and i think that's why they make it always make it very difficult to cover, including in these extra different cases that you mentioned. and let me guess, and 5 hash me case, they probably cited socks as material support to terrorist. i think that was it, i mean, you know, and then they sent them to florence. 80 x. i was just,

it was quite a, i mean, it was quite a frightening window into what had happened to our own judiciary and how, especially after 911. it just became a tool of repression for any just what i mean in the, in the trial they were playing surreptitious. recordings that had been taken of 5 harsh me speaking quite eloquent bra, very brilliant men in at brooklyn college, where he was a student on behalf of palestinian rights. and they did the same thing to sammy larry and the palestinian professor out of florida, who was eventually extradited now lives in turkey. um, so the whole kind of, quote unquote war on terror, eviscerated what little legal protections, dissidence once once had. and of course, we are now seeing this very ominous move against the press itself with the extradition request for julian. well,

a number of so called western democracies have outlined their laws and policies around extradition. and they all seem to include barring extradition, that they deem political in nature. this includes the u. k. and perhaps not surprisingly, nato countries. a newer, very recent case of daniel edmund, doug in a former us marine corps pilot accused of illegally training chinese military pilots. now doug has been arrested by australian official and has been held in jail since october of 2022, his citizenship. his citizenship status currently is not quite clear. some say he relinquished his american citizenship. b, indictment though from a d. c. district court says he did this training without a proper license, and that's why they want him. but doug ins, attorneys say that this is political in nature, given the u. s. tensions with china right now that all doug has done was his job as

a flight instructor. is there any meet on those bones? i mean, the us china tensions the new august pack. is that all part and parcel of this extradition game? yeah, i think the united states, the binding ministration has the democratic party, even more than the republican party has made this kind of bifurcation between us and them. whether it's russia, whether it's china, these countries have been labeled as enemies potential, you know, aggressors against the united states. this has a lot to do with the substantial sums that are provided to the military, $854000000000.00, which is more than the military budget. so the next 9 countries combined including china and russia. so i go into israel and doing this kind of stuff, you know,

all sorts of american citizens who worked in mercenaries for the i d. f. in essence, i had the same in ukraine. there is no, there are no repercussions for that. so again, it's the that kind of double standard and also any kind of collaboration with states or entities that have been demonized. we'll see you whacked by the kinds of grotesque terrorism laws and extradition requests that have been visited upon julia chris hedges, host of the chris hedges report, see his weekly columns on sheer post dot com. thank you so much, chris. i greatly appreciate it. so as you can see, when the u. s. government or the so called american justice system has its site set on you, it's nearly inescapable. and with a 97 percent extradition to conviction rate by the d o. j,

it's unlikely you will walk free. but if you're an american who admits to causing death of a civilian overseas, be it in wars as a military contractor or simply as a distracted driver. if you can make it back home, you'll likely not have to face a foreign court for your crimes. that's going to do it for this weeks episode. modus operandi the show that digs deep into foreign policy. i'm your host manila. cham thank you so much for tuning in. we'll see you again next week to figure out the ammo. ah ah, it's done. lord stream wanted to were destroyed by great britain is

a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on russian energy. the war in ukraine is all mistakes were made and i have been elected as a leader of my party, angel prime minister in poland. to fix them be face the highest taxation. said still this year alone, we have provided 2300000000 pounds of military support. and we will do the same again next year. i need to because i still me with ah

ah ah ah glad to miss nathan history with history madame boss derived with miss steward to complete the key at the win washington's keep. the process is to begin with molly contrib claims to not letting me it was put in. it was for good of christ opponents in the who could i use it? did you did it with

cash? would she use to proceed? professional lithium to walk you through the list of all, but yet what the youth level think this will be ah, ah, i'm afternoon, dance in your watching this season's penultimate episode of going underground broadcasting all around the world from dubai in the u. e. a few weeks ago, we spoke to pulitzer prize winning journalist seymour hersh about his bombshell report of the united states blew up in wood stream pipeline destabilizing europe's energy supplies, and causing what may have been the single biggest methane emission event ever recorded. an environmental catastrophe and now hush, the legendary journalist, known for exposing cover up like the u. s. armies massacre at me lie and torture of

prisoners in abu ghraib joins me again from washington. d. c. with more revelations . this time reporting that the c, i was well aware that ukrainian president laudermill zalinski and his entourage embezzled hundreds of millions of dollars in usaid. thank you so much. i cipher coming back on. i mean, after revealing that dead terror at jack, tell me about this $400000000.00 of us public money and, and i think most american media covers the fact that the american public certainly need 400000000 dollars for infrastructure. tell me about the latest scandal trading with the enemy. ah, well, you have to know that the budget right now the actual money. i think the, the on my government is spent on that war is a well, about 5 months ago was about 113000000000, and it's now up to 120. so the $400000000.00 figure when you compare it to that, the great gross amount of money we spent there is almost trivial. but one of the

things that really bought the base, i learned that just 2 months ago and ukraine, nice a lot of diesel fuel to keep asc army going to keep its trucks going and they use diesel and it, and, and they have, since the war began they've been buying diesel from russia and, and, and, and as they weren't supposed to, right. they went up, they're not supposed to be funding the war on landscape, not really funding the war on zalinski assist the war a, even that per the chess in silly that war. they were buying their oil from russia. i just, i, you know, it's just, you know, as a all, you know, the old line b, s a walks and money talks. and the foreign to me was just a figure. the estimate that i had been told by people i've known for decades

and was, was the scam on just the oil money. but let alone it's sort of disturbing that ukraine's buying oil from russia with whom it war i mean, but, you know, the oil and money transcends every bit of rationality, i guess. but then to discover, the foreign to me is, it isn't all. i mean, you know, all you have to do is look, look at the high life in kiev today. there's a really good high life and he live the group. the fancy restaurants are going, you can find liquor stores of everything in it. there's a lot of money being pushed around. and so what happened was, this would have been 3 months ago or so. the c i a director r c, i, director of burns bill burns, who's really a diplomat. i is there been in the cia, he's had a great careers ambassador to some places that quoting russia by and by and actually

at which at.