been told by people i've known for decades and was, was the scam on just the oil money, but let alone it's sort of disturbing that ukraine's buying oil from russia with whom it war i mean, but, you know, the oil and money transcends every bit of rationality. i guess, but then to discover the foreign to me is it isn't all. i mean, you know, all you have to do is look, look at the high life in kiev today. there's a really good high life and he left the group, the fancy restaurants are going, you can find liquor stores of everything in it. there's a lot of money being pushed around. and so what happened was, this would have been 3 months ago or so the c i director r c, i, director of burns bill burns, who's really a diplomat. i is there been in the c, i a said, a great careers ambassador to some places that quoting russia by and by and actually at which. and when he finishes tours of bassett or russia, wrote

a memoir in which he warned, against expanding nato to the east because of the lead the war. but that's not what he's likes to talk, which makes it even more weird that he ok, the north stream pipeline disaster from your previous article. he was the middle he was he was given. i think the only job major job left when abide want got in and by what happened is burns retired from foreign service. he was deputy secretary state and a quite reasonable guy went to the carnegie foundation as president. and then when biden got in, the question is what job would he have? he wanted a job in foreign policy. these are for, this is the way it works to washington. these are professional government officials . you know, once you're in, there's always going to be a job for you. and the only job big job there was left for cia and he took it. i would guess that he, that maybe if there's a 2nd term tony blinkin, will we retire or something? i have no idea why he took good, but he did. he was the middleman when they are,

when the cia and other agencies ran a covert operation to destroy the pipeline. but he comes off better in fantasy in the, in this piece about alleged corruption of the zalinski administration in viet because you say that your sources are telling you he has had words with zelinski. and i should say, he says he denies all corruption. he was named in the panama papers. but according to you, you are saying that's lensky. i was told off by bill burns about all is. so then his officials writing around him key avenue, mercedes benz is and the like the actual message. as i understood it. and he was not alone on the trip. so the actual message that is there other people from the community with him, intelligence community. the actual message says lensky was the gen of the bureaucrats and the generals are getting very angry at you because you're taking

too much of the, of the scam. if you're taking a bigger cut. and he was given a list of 35 people that were involved in them and corrupt activities, the lens he diff, fire 10 people on the list, some generals and officers, and some survey and bureaucrats. most of the agencies in the government that normally do kind of contracting work normally do directly with normally you do a contract with somebody supplies toilet paper, your contract, the paper company, everybody has gone to brokers. everybody's now getting 3rd party said well because that increases the chance for money on the side. and the corruption there is just beyond belief. it always has bid and that doesn't change. and so that's all i was writing about. but you know, like a lot of the stuff i write about, you know, they keep on saying unnamed sources as if, you know, and all those years i was at the new york times, winning a lot of prizes from my work van back in the 70s. and watergate and stuff like that,

and vietnam, how could you possibly name sources you put, put people in jail. but you know that, you know, you know, we've been talking for years. we know that you know how to game as we never reveal our sources as, as the, as you said, zaleski did fire people. i don't know whether that was just to make it look good or that was because bill burns was telling him, was it bill burns that told him to do family. he fired 1010 of those who the most us ostentatious living, you know, in key of living well in the best apartment and showing a lot of money and buying a new cars. and he fired those who are ostentatious was the word. and another $25.00 just that were left untouched. look, is why be shark? it's the ukraine's always been at the bottom of the list or the top of the list of terms of corruption. yeah, i think everyone's shocked in the mainstream media community because that's key as a hero. and it was bipartisan bipartisan in congress to send so many

billions of dollars worth of public money when you're in a cities or a crumbling clearly. and perhaps the journalists in kiev drinking the wine, who knows? because, so what you're saying is, zelinski is buying is fueling the war on ukraine by buying russian oil on the black market. russia, russian, the diesel is roger is obviously funding ukraine because with north stream gone, it has to be transit fees for gas and going through ukraine actually. and that's part of it there. are you know this, the price of diesel, but there is still a gas line that was, was operational, i think, in the sixty's, a long time ago, from russia through ukraine, into some of the countries that in western europe, all, warsaw, blah countries. you know, the old number, the warsaw block that existed as,

as an opposition to our nato. i guess somebody was and they have to pay the transit fee opinions even to every, every gift russian continues to pay a transfer fee for that pipeline. and oil does flow, but it doesn't go to your credit goes through ukraine. and, but, and there's always been incredible complaints over the years. i mean, for decades about ukraine plug into it illegally and sizing. somebody go out. but that was before the war. it's just look, i didn't know i should be giggling about it because it's, it's really quite a crazy situation. and as you know, that the united states is from the kennedy days on there's all sorts of speeches and talks and concerned about the fact that we viewed the fact that russia has so much oil so much and so much under price oil for years. so much very clean methane gas and they've been selling it particularly want to europe at wonder low

prices. a lot of it keeps everybody warm and happy, new businesses flowing. and we always use that as a weapon. russia weapon icing. it's oil of your well, you know, we, i think we, we did talk about it on, on the north stream episode and people going to look at it on rumble. but also in your article, you're talking about weapons, real weapons. actually there was an american w b. i host randy critical was in dubai in transit from don't yet. he wondered why a comedian was in don't yet, rather than us journalists covering the war. and he saw with his own eyes the kind of killing that was been going on with the u. s. high mars and so on. i understand that the exports of arms from ukraine are gaining traction here. they. they're not just killing web people in europe. tell me about this booming weapons export market. well, i have not written about it,

but i've obviously heard, you know, i don't, i don't know where they call it. the dark marker to the black marker, very early pullin. romania, other countries on the border were being flooded with weapons. we were shipping for the war to ukraine. in other words, commanders of various, you know g, i don't, i don't know what level. often it wasn't generals, it was colonels and others who were given a shipment of some weapons would personally resell, i'm a retail and back into the black, dark market and including they were the concern at midnight as a lot of concern. this was months after the war began last february, where i could have these handheld a missile guns missiles, they could shoot down an airplane, you know, at a considerable height. and so there was a lot of concern about that. but that and one at one time about 6 months ago, maybe more cbs wrote a story about it that they were forced to retract they pub in c,

s. television put on the air show about the arms was to retract these mistakes. i no, they just, they were just, you know, everybody's, you know, everybody's, we're, we're, we're on the side of ukraine. we all hate russia. and, you know, and biden hates russia and, and he h china and was totally above blake and the secretary of state a. jake sullivan, the national security advisor, and victoria newland, or blinking i call him when can blinking a nod. they're all unified in their public, the station and contempt for russia, all things russian and the same for china. i hear the bar bind's in the process of going to try and discourage certain sales of, of goods from china to the united states is going to bar some. is that a sanction those where i just don't understand where this immense pop up point of

hate comes up? yes, put did a terrible thing by starting a war and that's going to be on him forever. you know, he actually started one when he didn't have to i is that convinced me he did not have to, i don't, but i think you could have negotiated something. you're going to get that if you're going to get that interview with put in clearly because he and the russian side say the war started way before i read it. i read his interviews, they're quite interesting. artic, that's his argument. i miss, you know, and remember, 2007 or one of those international conferences that seems all horrible. he actually publicly said, i'm wanted to take me in a nato. i'm in europe. so i deck, i say you can't, history is what russia did. they started the 1st, the bloodiest warren in, in western europe since world war 2. you know, i don't know, you guess? yes, larva was was pretty bad. sy hersh, i'll stop you there. more from the pulitzer prize winning legendary journalists

after this break. march 20th 2003. the u. s. army and its allies invaded iraq, especially he the say that to david. let me know. kind of said, was it anybody said nevada. 07. out of the lim dash of the hobby may the 1st 2003 us president george bush declared victory in the iraq war or the the projects are you know, up up, up for a potential hired to december. the 30th 2006

said i'm hussein was executed at adam. mm hm. we'll shuttle down from done december. the 15th 2011. a ceremony was held in bagdad tomorrow at the end of the u . s. military mission. in reality, the u. s. army is still in iraq, a blob. she had a village and still have football, football. awe neutrality is one of the most flexible concepts and international relations that you can imagine, which is why it's so useful, but why it is so inherently difficult to grasp. so that the chances we have is the country spirit with a meaning that is useful to them and hopefully to, to all this because at its core it means i'm not taking decide of either of these

completely. ah ah, welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with pulitzer prize winning, legendary journalist seymour, who i want to get on to. i mean, i should just also say that there's no, you mentioned blinking. there's no sign. yeah, there any element of corruption at that level? this is geo strategic. as far as where it's blinking. no, there's no, he's a west collection sell to and he's a capital pot and a hedge fund or equity company. there's nothing about that as this is this, there's never been an issue. i mean he's, he's look, he's a perfectly, he's been, he's a great public service. he's now the secretary of state, but he's been biden's number one man. as, as a role through congress. when you were, he was hurt by the one who's on the do just sorry, committee looks by mondays on various other committees. he's not a no,

he's never served as an ambassador. never served. in the 2nd apartment, he's, you know, over his ski the secretary of state because he thinks he can bully people. and jake solomon's biggest claim to fame was he was hillary's lawyer when she was in there during a lot of investigations including the g mail. and he also ended up working at brookings, with strobe talbott, who won, he was deputy secretary of state in the clinton administration, was the major pusher for expanding nato to the east. that was, that was actually when the chinese embassy was bombed in his levy. when sort of all, but with you to remember that you also mentioned though, the 82nd airborne is training in poland. what, what do they do it? why would the 2nd to 101st is it is who are they 1st? who is the 2nd level you who is the executive board and why should we? well, executive board is one of the most of the army. it's a brigade which is composed of 5 companies, which is maybe $7500.00 men. and last year we also brought the 101st

infantry airborne, another elite unit, another brigade, 5 companies, or 4 companies and add on add on. companies probably would back up forces. we've got 20000 american soldiers exercising. doing training. sions, maybe in poland is 60 miles on the border review crane. where many, it's a little farther, but they're still easy. easy. what, what are they doing? i mean, what does i think they're going to be doing? well, i don't know, but i thought i asked my story and you know the story you're talking about, which ran a couple of weeks ago. that's what i asked, i guess what, what are they there for? what's the plan if the war goes bad as jose, jose willing to buy a global pipeline and keep his best? al, i'm one of the good allies in nato, germany, cold and a little bankrupt. you know, it's not good. you know, it's, it's going to be cost a lot of money to replace the,

the cheap gas he was getting out of north stream till he was gonna get. and so he got rid of that. what would he do if the war, you know, this l, this talk about an offensive? i think it's been going on. but what, what, what do you do if a sudden he did turn bad as i will tell you, most of the people i know think it has think that's just the question of what wants to do when, but you know, that's not what you're seeing in the western papers, and as by the way, all of these re intelligence re book reports that have come out in the last week. some are very interesting, but in general, we all know that day or cliche about intelligence. so please, you know, they're taking a rosy picture of some of the numbers in it, but again, their documents and so the, you know, they get tremendous attention because, well, i was of the attention to the content of the leaks from the pants. again,

the got the attention, it was, it was trying to get compare was and then we use the prime, you open euro, your whole life has been dependent on the 1st amendment and of maybe the 4th amendment of the us constitution. what did, what do you make you feel when they weren't talking about you are saying the pentagon leeks about rosy pictures of counter fences by the ukrainians. they were talking about your paper. the new york times was talking about how to, how they help the f b i to apprehend jack texas tech zera, this 21 year old national guardsman. i don't get me going on the graphs. there's that there's a no with the presses a no win situation. may look, i worked for years at the new york times and i'm sure everybody to pay for it. i always want a lot of prizes. and one of the most important stories i wrote about them, cia, spying on american citizens, had nobody named in it. and so did the notion now,

so this or is this, the, it's, it's, i'm certainly an outsider. now i'm publishing on a subset, which is a, i'm self publishing in essence. but i will tell you, for sure. i am retained the terrific editor, somebody i worked with at the london review books. and i wanted like i say, the mother of your books has gone pro ukraine by the way. i just read the latest issue. but i was trying that what i was trying to get out there was, this is worse than when i last spoke to you a few weeks back because last time you criticize a year old paper, the new york times. now it's not the with the new york times, not printing important news of interest in the public interest about what's happening in europe and who knows where else they're actually and growing about aiding the f. b i and capturing alleged whistle blows. that's a new one. has moved in let me make it broader than in new york times because you can't win an argument with the you know, i just, i don't want to get into an argument, but i sometimes do but,

but trump terrified the press that he won. after all, the mocking they did, and they're terrified again, and i will tell you there's a lot of people very worried that we may end up with a biden. trump ticket in 2024. and. and so the times response to the trump and all the, all the horrors, the january, 6 invasion of the capital has been, i think, to make a very distinct commitment to being pro biden. there's very little criticism about him. none of the stories i've written about buying, none of the allegations or more than allegations with a lot of specific look i know much more than i said about what that mission took place in the base. it was based on no way what we were doing. and so none of followed the story in any way except the right counter stories given by the intelligence community. so the fact that the, it does wash to way so, you know,

you cannot be shocked at the times, wouldn't be as good citizen turning to the test, the higher the of course i am, but you can't be see, there you go. and you're going to make me get self serving, but the sources you want are people that are motivated ever since i did the meal i massacre story, which made a lot of people in the military who suffered through vietnam and the horrors there and kept their mouth shut because they wanted to get that next star that next promotion. and they knew talking about it. so i was an ex peter for them. and so the people that i talked to take the oath of office, they have to take it every year in the military. anyway, i think in state department to they don't take it to their boss or the colonel or the general or to the president. they take it to the constitution and those are the people i have. i know and many, many more than my think who i talked to because when they see something wrong, even though their job may be online, if i,

if i screw up and somehow do get them nailed in the story, right. but they talk to me and the times, you know, i don't think when i worked there, they had those kind of sources. i mean, i know that because they relied on me for certain things. you with how you are the person we're going to the end of the best hopes when. well, i noticed as a spokesman, a pretty, you know, job a one star able named john kirby who i used to know when he was a junior officer in the, in the press office for the secretary of defense. when i was working at the new yorker and writing about no w d and all that stuff, but the cheney bush stuff, much critical stuff. and he was then involved. now, he is a merge as the fellow who backs up the when, when there's a critical issue. he backs up the president press a young woman, he's always there to answer questions and he goes on the sunday talk shows. we're talking about a prescott now being going on the stork. so that used to be the domain of the

secretary, the state, or the national security advisor. you don't see much of those guys anymore right now. i don't know what's going to happen with the pipeline story. i don't know if it's ever going to come out because this government will never investigated, it least in anonymous way. well, the un un won't either, despite russia and china, and brazil wanting to, and you're intimating their, the anger actually in the latest piece you seem to be intimating there is an anger at certain levels there, but did it at least vindicate you a little that while you were being characters fascinated and not covered with the sin of omission the mainstream. he did it. do you think it was because of your article that i love? sholtes would not get take questions when he visited biden last month. i mean, why people were saying, well, why did the, i mean, presumably even the, so go mainstream media had your article on their, their mind and, and now the washington post is conceded that european investigators don't believe

the, the billing cats. i mean, this is some out organization. it's slowly you're getting traction. are you? i mean, do you think that's why john schultz was not allowed? i mean, normally you'd have him and biden doing questions when they, when they do the, it doesn't matter what i think because i don't know what the answer i, i shouldn't, that's a big statement as the of the stand. but a lot of presidents, you know, when ronald reagan was president, they see i every day give something called the president. his daily beef is called the p. d. p. and skies and the cia up to $34.00. and i'm wanting to propagate, losing a 3 year page thing for the president in a few senior people is the 2nd, the vice president, secretary of states that are sick deaf not to many people. it's a very hot document. and at some point, you know, it was understood that reagan wasn't really it. and so column paul was long gone. i

can tell the story now, figured out the way to do it. he would, he would tape it go on and to video. he would read it in a video and then plug the video in for reagan to watch. and that's how they got him to read the happy g. p. s. hollywood. i'm going to say we, we don't have time to look at the latest piece, which is a, which is guantanamo. and i know this is a watch this program in guantanamo in the t. v room apparently. but i guess people should, i don't know if you have any very quick message to the people in what dana will be watching this in the u. s. prison camp. because your latest one is about the process. well, the only point i made is that the constitution united states is very clear on something called due process. and if you're in a jail in america, you don't have to be a citizen to get through process, and you don't have to have been captured somewhere outside of america or american sovereign territory. due process is in the constitution. and none of the courts

that educate the very, it's been legal issues that go to war in the course of done something and forcing them back in the bush cheney days of forcing the white house to at least the government to give some rights to them. but none of the no court has ever said the one thing that nobody wants said, which is the prisoners have absolute right to due process. the way the court, there was a case decided a couple weeks ago to sort of blew my mind with some guy who was released. you know, they been in for 20 to 20 years. gone to the torture prisons that we had back in the early days. got the guantanamo no evidence at all convicting and linking anything. finally, 2 years ago he was released. he was said, you're free to go. but if you have to go to a safe country, well, he was from yemen and he wanted to go back there. and so the establishment, whether was the, the, the state of, i was the people, the, i guess the military running the prisons there established and said it's not safe.

so you can't go there. so he's been a little they can read people to read on your sub stack about of the law and you got you got a guy. i know you've got a guy schaefer, you know you, you are is give me grief as much as i give you. i saw that i asked, you know, grief science. thank you. that's hi joe. that's over the joe. we'll be back on saturday for the final show of this season with john perkins allege, well, bag, an american army man to talk about which world leaders are on washington's assassination list. meanwhile, you can keep in touch by all our social media if it's not centered in your country and had to our journal going on the grantee on rumble, dot com to watch. new and old episodes of going underground sees after noon. hungary has been

a member of the european union and nato since 1999 during the 1st post soviet wave of nato's eastward expansion. number's sailors gazelle, yesterday. my longest thanks. his dear liam operative a c. like by law as a conscience. so e, so me to me, if so would you like a sure zap bud luma? it would be show every him. yeah. still more gina beach, but i see you, but i see also bosh, roy. i'm a gucci. stano in the early ninety's hungry was a country with a worst view of russia due to historical disagreements left over from the soviet union. and you, someone like yours or what i see if you brought a handle political more than as what i see is great. and i did it at the political 0 with

only one main thing is important for knox, ism internationally speaking, that is, that nations allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the minor nations who are the slaves. americans, brock, obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist by turning those russians into this. danger is boy man that wants to take over the world. that was a conscious strategy and walked as of yet noon. i actually stood off to move on in tablet block. nato said it's ours. we move east and the reason us, hey jim, it is so dangerous, is it? the law is the sovereignty of all the countries. the exceptionalism that american

uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nato disbanded shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in large arms, companies would lose millions and millions or is business and businesses good. and that is the reality of what we're facing, which is fashion. and february, the 1st 2000 or 3 at a un security council meeting us secretary of state colin powell showed a vile allegedly containing anthrax spores from iraq eventually contained laundry detergent, march 20th, 2003. the u. s. army and its allies invaded iraq. april 9th, 2003. the u. s. army and coalition forces entered baghdad and tore down the statue

of saddam hussein in fear door square. lay the 1st 2003 u. s. president george bush declared victory in the iraq war. december, the 30th 2006, saddam hussein was executed december the 15th 2011. a ceremony was held in bagdad.