you know, the united states needs to be called to recognize on this. and now of course, this no workers deals with china's economic hit men who are doing pretty much the same thing. they, they've got a different story to tell. they've got a new marketing technique which is very, very effective. but it's basically the same story, their economic hitman learned from our failures and our successes, and they're doing out of much more efficient job than we ever did. and you expect that to me, attacked by a mission in laden, they shouldn't media press or do they, will they like this one? because you do attack china, which is a kind of trope, many people doubt the we good story of people can see are, is few with a we as an, as another story designed by the kinds of forces that you've described for decades to destabilize countries. how do you expect the response to this a update to the edition or to some instruction manual, how to destroy developing well countries to others, how to save them?

well, my hope is that people will really look at what i think is the major theme of the book, and that is the economic hit man strategy in china. and the united states is taking us of the precipice of self destruction of the world. as we know it and life as we know on this planet it, you know, we can talk about climate change in income inequality and species extension both problems, but they're not the problem. they are symptoms of this death economy. it's based on short term maximization of profits, period and it's not working. it trickle down economics does not work. and so, you know, in the book is about how to we've created life economy that pays people to clean up pollution to regenerate destroyed environments, to recycle, to develop technologies like wind and solar and, and, and non good, non carbon emitting forms of now i don't, i mean the end of the book, you're there,

exercise the things for schools or education. how do you expect this stuff to, to happen given if you reach any level of power based on the rest of the text in the book, you may be killed, overthrown. if you get a democratic mandate or of they will print stories against you, they will use all these. i mean, you, you got one side saying whatever you try, they will destroy you. and the other one saying, try for better world. well, you know, i realize i'm citing probability, but history is based on, on people who fought probability successfully, you know, and, and, and 1774. and the concept in the united states in america was me. and i say check was that the british were in the sense that were in the feasible, they were invincible. they couldn't be beaten. and you know, george washington sounds that before the continental congress and says, remembers how 20 years earlier,

he was at the battle monongahela during the french and indian war, where the biggest, most powerful british army was wiped out. and its general braddock was killed. and all the, all major officers were killed by a handful of french and indians. and washington says, what was the lesson there? not invincible. all we gotta do is hide behind trees. go against probability. come up with a new system. i'm. my hope is that we, yes, the probability is that we're gonna go on doing this and we're going to create, continue to create a problems or more severe, hurricanes, more severe climate change, et cetera. but i believe that we can go against probability and a cause history is written by people who oppose ability and do something come up with a new idea, a new perception, a new approach. and that's what this book is about. an option as how we can all come together. you know, the thing about it is, is with china's days can never agree to do something like this, to fight, to fight climate change, et cetera. but if there was a u. f o,

hovering above us and aliens were threatening to attack us. what would chime in the united states do? they probably come together. and history would say that they would come together. he does say in, i'm not saying you're a complete to clairvoyant, but this is a direct quote from the updated edition presumably written in the early days of the ukraine conflict. in the long run, rushes invasion of ukraine may strengthen china's position as the leader in the movement to reduce the u. s. is suits, says you is saying directly that the china and russia would move closer together or after what happened in ukraine? are we seeing that now? is the chinese balloon story, an emblem of this fact? well, yes, and of course, where else is in india and turkey and much of the lower and middle income countries . if not siding with russia completely,

at least not selling it with the nato in united states, either they're, they're, they're, they're not going against russia, they're. and so, yes, we're saying that china is, is being strengthened in this process. but the fact of the matter is china had already taken over much of the war income countries their, their investments in the last year years have in these countries the a that they've given. if you want to call an aide, the loans are greater than the loans of all other countries including united states combined. they've been making huge headway. and, and i think the for the pleasure to allergic reaction as is that we need to be aware of both countries at both countries. the united states and china are in a competition or race toward disaster. you know, they're taking us into a, when i called and we're lot of the common us. i had death economy, an economic system that's consuming and polluting itself into extinction. i mean, you talk about indonesia, you're one of the hit man after the great don line movement ideas of chicago.

before perhaps a 1000000, perhaps more were killed at the behest of their ca, lead coo coo, there. in a sense that that reflects that non alignment album. it's different. now there are cycles to these things in the book. you talk about cycles. i don't know what you thought of seymour hersh we interviewed on this program and his report on the nord stream attack. so there are times when washington will use debt as an instrument of war, though with the address payments impoverishing for developing will countries. and then there are kinetic times like vietnam will iraq. just tell us a bit about the psych way sion is a, is a kinetic one or is a, it's something that the will to be technocratic and to do with debt. some people say of the whole of western europe to u. s. gas liquid natural, natural gas. well, yeah, you know, so,

so after the failure of the war in vietnam failure from united states standpoint, at least strategically speaking, it wasn't a failure. here happened o. b major investor and military industrial industry that they saw over as quite a success actually in a lot of money, in other words, but it was a failure strategically. after that, it was decided that, that military might, wasn't the way to go. and that we needed to go with economic hitman, we needed to essentially control countries through debt rather than the military. and this was, this went on for many years, and a particularly round up after $991.00. when the soviet union dissolved in the united states was the only world superpower. but during this period of time, those involved in what we call the military industrial complex, the ones who make the weapons that big companies, that maker make the airplanes, the lockheed martin's, and boeing's and so on and so forth. they were not happy with that situation. and

they put a lot of pressure on, on the carter administration. and so in 911 happened, we went back into that cycle. this was a tremendously great excuse to rev up the military side of our, of our economy. and that's what happened after $911.00. and in some respects, sir, you, the ukraine, ukraine wars giving us the opportunity to read that up even even more. and as certainly happening, eyes were going in that direction. and they way, you know, i've tried it and i know you've had great palace and seem, are hers and others on this program who were very good investigative reporters. it seems to be impossible to find out how much of this aid that we're giving to ukraine is actually in the form of death. that can't be any doubt that some of it, at least probably a lot of that is in the form of death. but it's hard to tell because what the american people, what the world is told, is that we're getting all this aid to ukraine. the one thing we do know isn't that

isn't, is providing a lot of profits to the military industries in, in united states. as there's no question that they're making a lot of money asked us who, oh is that money remains to be seen. i mean, given that you were working with these institutions, whitman corporations, you don't sometimes have nightmares thinking the people are reading your work, including the new updated edition and reversing it. and they had to use it as an investment strategy, strategic bible, and therefore pick out what to make money off that whilst the corpse is pile up in ukraine. thousands, hundreds of thousands men. yeah. and well, yeah. now there's a lot, i love history of us in all we gotta do is look at religions to see how you know the, the word of a jesus, or mohammed or, or any other, your world badge, the prophets, the guiding principles behind religions,

how their words have been used to fight wars to incite wars and, and, and use to, to make money. okay. but we're not comparing you directly to them. i'm going to have a. yeah. i did. let's make background a bit of exactly what you see mar, hers are, are great pals. of wherever you are, as you write these things. yeah. yeah, i'm very aware that these things can be turned around and, and, and, and used against me or even used against the united states. and that's certainly not my intent. but my intent always has to support democracy and i think democracy requires that we had a very critical analysis of everything that we're doing and always try strive to get better. and right now we know we've got a system in the salience is climate change is income inequality globally? that's it. but you know where we are on the brink of of the major change and what

it means to be humans on this planet. the question is, are we going to change? is, is the planet gonna change us? because we're, we're abusing our system because we're over emphasizing materials to consumption and short term profits. or can we turn this around and transform the death economy into a life economy, john perkins, i'll stop you that more from the author of the best selling confessions of an economic had been up to this break. ah ah ah, ah

ah, the u. s. class not last. it should be real pop yet, but it is way. imperial power is raining and you read you read different articles, different journals are it's clear that they are aware that their power is waiting. i didn't want to lose. mm ah, welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the bestselling confessions

of an economic hit, my northern former economic hit man himself john perkins. you know, although the media restrictions are as bad, where i'm speaking to you from a if i tell you and remind you what the world bank standard statements are, the world bank promotes long term economic development and poverty reduction. there's an answer to that one. the i m f, promotes global macro, economic and financial stability and provides policy advice again and again. and you haven't changed since the 1st edition of you just say the well back of the i m f. don't, don't do that. i mean, you, i stayed to bob and perkins, the claims the u. s. national security agency recruited him to be an economic hit man. it appears to be a total fabrication that's from the us state department, 20 or 6. what? how do you respond diary. these have been so many years of this that you've given up or that now. well, you know, wanting to near to the major article or that they're looking at exactly what the state department said and, and, you know,

totally disagree with the state department. it was interesting to me and i was a website, the state department put off and i was the only person on the website. it was called the misinformation site. and it sold a lot of books for me to say, and i always wondered, so why are they saying this kid is obviously not true. they said the only job of the, of the national security agencies to encode and decode message as well. we know as a huge agency, the probably the biggest buy agency in the united states, maybe in the world. it does a lot more than encoding and decoding messages. and everybody knew that. and i had a television producer who came to united states several times to interview me. he was from athens, he did a program in athens, it was like 60 minutes of greece, i was told. and he, at one point he asked me said, did you know why the state department did this? and i so i have no idea serving a lot of books and it's obviously a fabrication. he said, well, i know after i did the 1st program with you,

the u. s. and bassinger and math and called me into the office and, and to me he said, you know, you put me in a very, very difficult position. because now all these people are reading this book of diplomats and they're coming into my house and say, is it true? what's the, what's your position on his book? and he said, i go back to the state department and asked him, what is our position on this book? and he said, i'm sure diplomats around the world and we're having the same problem. and so the state department had to come up with a statement sort of their diplomats, i could just say, well, i don't have a comment on it personally, but here's, here's our official response. and it was really interesting to me because it did so a lot of books from complex the opposite of what they wanted to accomplish. you quote from wiki leaks. i mean, julian, this on just being on this show general michael flynn, he's been on this show and i got to say a signs of lin virtually annihilated after they talked about what was really going on or away from the press releases the state department away from arguable

lies in their so called mainstream corporate media assange, of course, arguably being tortured according to the u. n. reporter in london at the moment. this updated edition. and people must be wondering and p boss the question, and you address it in this edition. how is it you are alive, given that you've blowing the whistle on some of the most horrific crimes that in a way are emblematic of west crimes. and you say in the book as one country after another in africa and latin america are in asia, is impoverished deliberately as strategy by the united states. in this book, you say you were targeted the, perhaps your health perhaps to stop you at the u. n. and you have fears for your family. well, yes. so when i 1st started to write the mark a long time ago, i contacted other people who had jobs like mine in the jackals. the people who go in, if, if the economic men are unsuccessful and overthrow governmental explores,

the supervise, the overthrow of governments, and sometimes even assassinate their leaders, is what happened to re and they, in chile and our benson won a mile and most the deck and ran around the united states is admitted, minute is things i contacted to some of these people. and immediately i received anonymous phone call, threatening my life and threatening the life of my aunts and daughter. so, and at the same time i was offered a very lucrative consulting job with it, with stone, webster, and engineering company. the major major competitor, my, when i was chief economist at that at chelsea, maine and had i quit that job, he was writing this book. and they offered me an extremely lucrative consulting position. i provided, i didn't write the book, they knew i was working on the book. so i stopped. but then after 911 i, i knew i had to write the book and i'm not saying there's any direct connection here at all that there isn't but, but when i went to ground 0 and looked down on that smoldering pit,

i knew i had to come clean on what i had done, and i decided this to me wouldn't tell anybody it wouldn't contact anyone else. i would write a personal a confession. i wrote the whole thing and secret and then got it in the hands of the good new york agent who got it in the hands of publishing houses. and at that point, i figured it's my, my security, it's my insurance policy. because you know, anyone who might not like what i wrote at, particularly in the, in the government would know that if something strange happened to me, the book would sell a lot more copies than the 2000000 tried to sell that. and so with this, i went forward and did that. so as regards jackals and economic kept men, ben, ah, what do you think the strategy is based on all your experience as regards opec? it was widely reported that saudi arabia in the united arab emirates didn't answer biden's phone call when, after what happened in ukraine, they were,

as per usual. so might say in is in your book you imply which all the look increase output reduce the prices of global prices of crude and they didn't do it. will they be? and will it be easy for them to have another jackal economic hit man strategy against a mom admin, salman and, and be said of the way. now it won't be a day because of china and, and because the world has changed so much. amongst other things of the many of the muslim countries are very upset or us or what we did in afghanistan and iraq. they don't see us as, as, as, as friendly to moslem countries. and china has, has become the major power. and so much of the world that no longer are we looked at as, as the great protector of these countries. now that we can't protect them against china, they know that we can't, that even russia at this point though, despite what we're doing in ukraine, this threat is very real. and they're saying that the united states is,

is over extended. and so for the way that the jackal john, so he has no economic hint. when does that mean the jackal i'm speaking to you from dubai, are there by the americans coming for us? i think at this point it's, it's less likely than in the past. but certainly, it least people now have some pretty good ways to protect themselves against jackals that you know in the jackals have been notoriously good at taking out governments in countries that have fairly weak governments. they're not so good at taking out countries where you have a very strong government, like saudi arabia. ah, and you know, the middle east of this point is, is, is a very different place from what it was back when i helped strike that deal in the early and mid 19 seventy's. well, world is one place. well, what about back back home in the united states?

cuz jr. widen talked a lot about things that are happening abroad. back in the united states, the big story for a while, was this balloon and then belatedly, i think it was to public pressure. arguably, people started talking about infrastructure, the ohio rel a disaster. i know you say that the ukraine war, again, is diverting us from strengthening really since the global partners. but at the same time, why is infrastructure in the state that it is in the united states is and how is it related to this economic global economic hickman jackal strategy from washington? well, because united states that corporations can't make nearly as much money off doing infrastructure projects in the united states as they can make up during infrastructure projects in other countries. so when an economic hit man goes in and convinces the president of, of a latin american or an african country to take a huge loan from the world bank that they have to use to hire yours corporations.

to bill infrastructure projects in their country. the company that builds the infrastructure projects, the u. s. corporation makes a huge profits. and of course, the military industrial complex does not benefit from infrastructure projects in the united states. the way that they benefit from what goes on in other countries. so there's a lot of pressure at the various highest levels of our government through lobbyist and consultants and advisors to expand all of our overseas efforts. and the other side of that is that as we expand these overseas efforts, we are also aligning ourselves with countries who have resources that are corporations, want oil, copper, cobalt. today we're looking to dig into, you know, to take better control of lithium, which is, you know, so important to, to, to the green economy. and china has essentially, i think they control just about 90 percent of the lithium in the world. people and people have watch our louise, asa interview president of bolivia. it didn't work out so well for washington when,

after even morales where lithium is of course, a in bolivia, we don't really have a much time to be able to talk about noriega, who surprisingly comes out nicer than will might expect in the new updated edition . given the demonize ation or specific, ve monetization of him in panama. but when it comes to panama, we knows lensky was named in the panama papers. that doesn't have to be talked about much nowadays. you say in this book that says since the 1st edition, he becomes shocked by a blatant defiant and merciless that a donation of the banks. these big banks of the nato nations are you talk about the corrupt leiber interest rate setting? and you don't think much of the 10000000000 fine on j. p. morgan chase barclays bank of scotland. u b. s. freight is guilty deutscher, bank 2 and a half $1000000000.00. you weren't satisfied the fact that all these banks were corrupt. me to be sure up they got to me on that one and what

was satisfied with the vine levels of fire. they paid their dues. oh well, isn't it funny that base kept fine, but based on them commit crimes. banks don't get put in prison. a banks don't if they could find, but the people that actually committed the crimes, the ones who made the decisions, they go, scott free. those are the c e o is that, you know, people high positions and these banks i, i think that's horrific that corporations in the united states have the rights of individuals. but they don't have the responsibilities and they don't have to answer to the same was it's not the way a democracy should operate. john perkins, thank you. and the 3rd and latest edition of confessions of an economic hit man is out. now if you're thinking of taking out and i am f loan, that's for the final show, this season will be back with a brand new episode on saturday, the 13th of may, but until then, we'll be broadcasting some of your favorite shows of the series. meanwhile,

and keep in touch firewall a social media. if it's not sense in your country and to watch idle going underground tv on rumbled, come to watch new and old episodes of going underground see very soon. ah ah ah, nice to come to russian state. i never tied us on the nose landscape with we will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machines. the state aren't russia to date and split the sport that even our video agency,

roughly all band to on youtube with there is really a special kind of cynicism in this incident because this is affecting a school, it's affecting children. brushes are by 3rd, he's violated international law wire rating, and then see a building that was the use of the school for the russian embassy drug for issues of harsh criticism of usa most intervention in the middle east. as that to mental to the region. you can definitely start and either neighbor iraq.