from the hor, capital of fun job province in pakistan. thank you so much for coming on the show. it's been so long since i interviewed you last in, in london. when you wanted to be prime minister, since you've been overthrown, you've been shot and injured. your family has been targeted. how real? the assassination plot against you? right now as we speak? be as escalation blog. unfortunately, i ran the dent on me when i was very lucky, i'm lucky to be alive and where my legs. i was wanting full almost 2 months before the attempt. i give the exact manner in which they were going to try to be another blame it on a religious fanatic, but it was all done by a people in the prime minister. they did minister and one senior intelligence agency guy, and they had planned this murder nation,

and i was lucky to be alive and unfortunately they're still in a position of power. and so therefore, even though the investigation started but discussion mastication, because it was pointing in the direction of a proper guns, proceed along the lines which i predicted. and therefore they just they said, what does the investigation? so the threat israel because these people are sitting and bala petrified, but if i wouldn't the elections, they would be in trouble. well headed accountable. so they have been doing them since then, which i will say by the almighty, just in the nickel dime they had to do, but be on 11 on saturday. there was a bravo, a den. i almost walked into the drug and the time i got back because they had

planned to kill me them. and then i discovered that they were going to do another action against mine. on wednesday they were going to do this action where my supporters were there and they were planting people in my supporters would have fired the police and the police would have given my support that eventually come off to me. so, i mean, it's a difficult time in august because we have a government which is address. we have a government which get on and then the which get article, but they can amik situation in the country, which is we're passing through the was crisis in our history. the was governance system and i history and then we have people will petrified of elections. so the elections on too many provinces have been announced by the supreme court on the 30th of april, the petrified of their elections. my body will sweep them because an order been in

bulls by bodies boys to win to cause majority by gustavo pens. they're wanting to get rid of me out of the 37 by elections in the last few months. my body has swept 30 of them. so you know, you the reason you asked me in the beginning how real is a thread? the tread israel undulations because they're worried that if the election stake base i come back into bala, they will be held accountable. i'll get to the economy in a moment. is it true that as p t i, leader, if our chaudhry says in the indian papers actually caught up in the story of us, that you are going to be part of multi body negotiations, agreeing on a process when you elections? and does that make any difference as regards yourself because you're banned from going for these elections by pakistani authorities? well, i'm not bad at all, but there are 443 cases against me fired by the government. under $43.00,

it must be some word record. i remember i have been in the public eye for the last 50 years. i'm the most well known pakistani in our history and be below me. i have never broken any law. and suddenly, in the last few months, in trying to remove b from the lation, raise them 543 cases so far. which starts from last me to sedition, to dare is a most of them are terrorism, will support is in the peace movement in say, nature country say that it was your opposition to drones. things that you've done certainly would have irritated the cia and antony blinking. but what about these gifts that you received from foreign governments when you a p. m, between 201820? 22. what he, what about those judges is 75 years of pakistan. history. the law says that when a head of state law, any one and bower ministers, all army generals,

only one when they receive gifts, then the law says that you bear a certain amount or do those state. it used to be 20 percent, and my diamond was 50 percent. when you paid 50 percent, the guests were yours to do whatever you want. the guess you did not claim washington and in the market. so this has been the law for 70 years. i and i'm waiting for this job, this is a allegation i'm waiting for this to go to court. you would find out that people would find out the only head of state, possibly the only hosted who went by the book who declared everything and whom it did everything legal is sitting here. well, of course, some i'd say the, you appointed people when you were prime minister, that i don't know whether you think they were part of a conspiracy for the spokesperson and edema. so john white is he saying things like

i was impressed by a emron cons. anti corruption platform was tied to the status quo, but then saw that welcome publicly talked about the poor. privately. he surrounded himself with wealthy investors. what, what do you make of that? and others are that you, you appointed, you appointed people that now criticize you. this guy came from one of the party joined me before 2000 elections. and then he lost the elections. and so as a consolation, i gave him some advice issue. and then he went back to the party to the body game from when he, when you go back, what are you going to say? why, why did you leave your body? you know, why are you back? what else is he going to say? i am really disappointed. i thought this was this, i mean, you know, these are politicians. what are they going to say? remember, the only government that has been removed in our history and not true for

corruption, was my government. when my government was removed, in 17 years, we had the best economic performance. and that's documented in economics avail, focused on an annual report published on the economy published by this government. so it has the best economic reg bought in 70 years and was not removed on corruption. obviously that's very be disputed by the opposition. you tweeted on sunday. fascism is at unprecedented levels under the premiership of your successor, noel, st brother shabazz. i'm does that include the ios, i boss nadeem and u. z, a fascist. and what is the role of the military here because to have fascism, you need a strong military. are you saying that there are others beside the prime minister, the new prime minister that are part of fascism in modern day pakistan? never in a democratic government. have a fundamental rights of the citizens. are democratic rights. never

the freedom of speech. never has it been so much at stake, right? as right now, i mean, all these rights have disappeared, but his son is passing through the worst human right catastrophe in a democratic history. yes. in some military dictatorships, there was probably similar circumstances, but in general, my sheriff's dictatorship, it was liberal compared to what we are going to right now. well that's, that's obviously quite a crisis statement. have you had any or any contact with us authorities because the optics of your overthrow were that you with vladimir putin as the response by russia to nature provocation as russia. so it happened in don bass, and there's been very little support for you from washington. but on the other hand, you have tempered your initial charges. that washington was the sole conspirator to

of the qu, that you allege when my government was removed. so just to give you, he was exactly what happened, a cipher which is of which is a correspondence from our ambassador in washington. with his conversation with the american under secretary of state of south asia. it was a recorded a conversation in terms that it was there were no diggers on both side. so it was an official meeting. this is donald blu ray, dot antony blinker. diplomat. yeah. so that, oh gosh. one is we're just going the cipher seeker correspondence arrived at the foreign office and at my desk. no, what did it say? daughter louis telling the buggy sunny investor that if you do not remove him, ron con, your prime minister and a vote of no confidence. there will be consequences of by august on the next. it is

a vote of no confidence in a government that had the best economic performance in 70 years. as you know of as you know now shes sharif is saying they have a leak or audio of you saying we must use this. i mean, that doesn't necessarily negate the fact that the biden administration was trying to overthrow you. but it was that true to the audio recording of you saying we must use as one can understand you wanting to use it after all as a conversation, which was state by the secret agencies. and then the doctor did, you know, you know, now if you have, if, if the day of your conversation, i mean, we're artificial intelligence, you can actually do anything. so the doctor, the conversation, but let me just make it a fake tape but so, so not when i was doctor, there were some things that were right, but then they were easy. doctorate, but the point is i made that cipher public i and

michael, of course, a good publish of what was it a, a b. exactly. correspondence because it's a secret goal. but we put that cipher in front of a cabinet. us national security council by hassan officially demolish the u. s. y interfering, and i'm to internal affairs. so that is the cipher. but later on we discovered it. but the, what you would have for him to we discovered that it was on army chief who was can be a good speed, was a man architect of conspiring to remove b. you're talking about generalize him on it? no, no, i'm talking about general budge wise. the ex army chief, ok. he was conspiring, he was getting beat us. he had high to lobby score with santa connie. on up here on my government payroll, who was loving against b. washington during the americans. i looked in wrong when to rush on his own or

gotten as if the whole of foreign office, all, all the stakeholders were not on board. and that wasn't a cipher too. and he can pin that him, ron is andy american, and general america. and so therefore, now we just go and then they were boys in against me because i had above good relationship with the trump administration. former prime minister, i'll stop you the more from the 22nd prime minister package on a chem to the p t i. m on con, after this break. ah ah ah, ah

ah, oh boy, is this the best bulk? no, he should buy for the mother when he was an annual g. d. p per capita is about $4000.00 euros. last does that? we've got drugs calling animal dollar a wants to to sleep. a lot of man are gonna primary cost is still from where, pursuant you put them in your prison are you which is fine. am ow bellanca marcy? mitchell and lewis thought they would have thought of unemployment is off the chance. moldova territorial integrity and sovereignty. we respect a country which enjoys financial support from the u. s. and the youth is constantly roth by political and corruption scandals. oh, but all that didn't stop mo, google obtaining you candidate status in 2022.

ah, ah, welcome back to going undergrad. i'm still here with overthrown by august. any by minister, enron con. as you know, the white house has been denying a lot of stories, not least the nord stream destruction story revealed by seymour hersh. but according to your allegations about the fact you were threatened by consequences. as appearing in that cipher or code, the biden spokesperson, kate bedingfield, is on the record for saying there's absolutely no truth to that allegation that you made. well, hardly are they going to say that, you know, we were involved in a regime jaden august on. obviously they were denied, but the factors, the cipher was the ocean conversation between ambassador in washington and on

a lou. and that was reported to me. and the exact words were that you should get out of your prime minister in a board of no conferences. and surprisingly, the next day, there was a lot of new confidence. well, let's go to the economy then, because you've been talking about the threat to the sovereign debt rating of pakistan. why do you believe china is not waiting for you to be back in power in pakistan? of the of asset budget con, already been in beijing. china giving packets on $500000000.00 to facilitate it seems a loans possible $1200000000.00 from the u. e, where i'm talking to, from, in the kingdom of saudi arabia. why are these countries not reacting more extremely in, or at least in a way that would suit your political parties position? you see from what i can get. i mean,

i can only assume this because i have no contact with any of the foreign countries . so i can see why there are reacting, but i can assume the what is happening is that countries outside bancwest on financial institutions outside burgersson and all the businesses will august on have lost faith in the us government. and why and the last with because the economy has been so badly managed that we are walking through the was sick lama crisis and i history. so our guarantee has plunged. our growth rate has gone down. ah, exports, you know, where to creation? how do you get? well, but producing by exporting what all you did i want to give is to facilitate the i'm floats. surely. i mean that's why the prime minister sharon sharif, is saying you're derailing your own i m f program. if you a prime minister would you just go along with facilitating washington money again?

reports are that the i m f may not be sending the $1100000000.00 trunk. you probably want that washington money, would you rather than a more independent pakistan with relying on bricks countries oh, object of getting and i'm as ron is a bridging lawn until you make your structure changes in your economy. that is supposed to be just a breathing long for you to get on your feet. but you know, that's not what the i m f does to mobile south country. no. i know that's not what the i m f does, but the countries have to take responsibility. now what will be trying to do is give you an example of what we were trying to do is your revenues goes into deficit. so we were trying to raise our revenues and grads, you try to squeeze expenditure. this is what happens when a house goes into debt. now, what is happening right now is then when you are exposed to go start going down. when your remittance has started going down, in other words, you're going to income goes down. you're in deep trouble because you're just taking

loans, but you have no capacity to pay them back. if you, unless you grid, where are you going to pay a loss back? this is the crunch we've got stuck, and right now we have all these loans accumulating. we are boring money, which is why the other countries are 11, but i capacity to pay back has been reduced. so who is in control of pakistan that who is in control of those who want to do you harm? well, this government was brought in by the ex army chief that he was the army chief general module since then has been brought up by the stablish. but they're 12 party scholarship, which is forming this government, which means no one is enjoys. they're all over the place. if he is eligible, withdrew support from his government even going to day. there's nothing to bind it together. it is just the stablish been keeping them together, which is why i'm saying the situation is untenable. at the moment,

there is so much political uncertainty, no one, just a government the only way forward. a free and fair elections allow government government, which is bumbling mandate. the confidence of the people. that is a government then which can start restructuring the economy, making difficult choices, you know, difficult decisions and, and only a government public mandate can get us out of this mess. and many say that you are the most popular politician in pakistan. you obviously won the majority of the votes in 2018, but you also know the history of assassinations of pakistani lead is he still refusing personal? what he gods? i was as the assassination of jim when i was extremely lucky to be alive. this young man, when he saw him draw her gun just by the 30 feet where feet away from me. had he

not has put his hand on the gun, it would have it be on the dog body and other people because he put his hand on the gum and the last it hit my legs and other people plus it was another shooter in the front. so, but it's in the legs, man, i went down and then a bullet from the shooter in front window, the head. since then i've taken precautions. now i speak in front of a bullet proof screen, and i am taking precautions because the guy who plan these as a nation all in power laws who are supposed to defend me are the ones i am in the greatest danger from. they of course deny that they say they're protecting you clearly. what about you? explain the silence. then i mean the, the am your children's uncle is the u. k. minister for overseas territories? not gold. now, lord goldsmith. he did been on this show why know why nothing from him? look here, the problems in pakistan have to be solved by the people by gast,

on hard via my go to ask other countries look and you know, i was, i was asking, you know, i was wondering why they didn't volunteer to. as you know, nature governments have a lot of talking about different countries in the global south. they just not talking about democracy in pakistan. all i'm one of them, you know, countries abroad to talk about other the greatest violation of human rights sticking base right now in my country. we actually have the worst form of fascism in this country. clam known on media agenda has been put into jail. one of our best investigative journalists are chetry, rounded out in kenya, assassinated for a heart of genocide, left the country and who killed i, shad sheree, if you believe it was a that im and you the boss of the i a saudi. i believe it was the same guy that tried to kill me. they would deny that, but you don't have the,

the evidence necessarily. whether this is this is a top pakistani john is killed in kenya after being in dubai. of course, for those who don't know him, so unless you have a proper investigation, how can you find the bruce? and when the investigation was going on, in my case they came and savage, i dont bruce this gum and then does destroy it all. and all the evidence that was collected so far has been destroyed. they have destroyed the joint investigating committee. this is, this is completely meter reader. why? because they are sitting in bower and didn't know where the investigation was eve, same as when the jealous archery his investigation hasn't already been scuttled. would you do things differently? now i know out influence of con, local p t i, leader in nav. elliana has been killed this week. members of your party are being killed or would you have done things differently as regards the military? the secret service is in pakistan, which you,

you after will lead luckiest on these structures. were there on the or leadership? good luck we have and budget on. we have a history. we gave the starter of the security state. we had this big fair off of nebo, 7 times our size. which beard ado dykus 3 wars against them. so they will, you know, we, the gundy naturally would have a fear that it, by so not exist and you know, because the naval was so huge and therefore it started off as a security state. and then when i was a politician, most of the army came in and imposed marcia laws. we had 3 much laws out of the last 60 years. ah, we've been ruled by the army and roughly all by these 2 families. so the democratic system still in vol. ring is still hasn't of all property but, and we have our own. let me just can be we have the war on gender for almost 15

years. and that again, to us more into the security. stayed by the agencies. this is the intelligence agencies play the huge order. so we are now trying to have more of a system. what is that equilibrium at the moment is going librium at the moment. in this case of this government, it is almost completely the establishment running the show of the nuclear weapons safe. absolutely. i think of one thing there is a consensus in by august on it is our nuclear weapons because, you know, everyone recognizes that. that guarantees are security. so there is a consensus across body line everyone, everyone august on believes that we must keep them secure there in can you just said that those elements of the security state have been problematic over recent years, and yet they're in control of the nuclear weapons. no problems,

but between the balance for the military and the civilian relationship. that's where the problem is. it's not as far as the nuclear since i'm concerned there is a consensus in august on that we need to look after them and get them secure better because that ensures our security and safety. well, as your family are attacked, as your recovering from being shot says, you're under threat of assassination. how is it to view she, gen ping, visiting moscow and both put in and she, heralding almost a new world order, which seems to be very different at 1st sight to that, that we've seen since 945. i see, you know, great change is taking place. i mean, of course, in china and russia is one because it seems that the u. s. this policy is just pushing countries into blocks. a home just

brought together iran in saudi arabia. i think that's one of the best developments as far as body side is concerned because iran is a neighbor and somebody is one of our.