on the welcome to well, to part one handshake at a time that used to be the motel of citizen or peoples diplomacy. a movement that originated in the letter years of the cold war and is often credited with helping to bring it to an end. doesn't spend a chance nowadays when russia and western countries have cut their diplomatic changes to historic minimum. well, to discuss that i'm now joined by dimitri last cut is a lawyer, journalist, an activist from canada. demetrius good to see you. thank you very much for coming over. thank you so much for having me. now. i know you've been out here in russia for slightly less than a month. can i ask for a rough estimate of how many russian hands here have taken so far over a 100, from across the span of generations and political orientations and, and it's been a fascinating and i would say surprising experience. now i know that you are

a successful hoyer from canada. you made a name for yourself in the corporate world and that, you know, it's, it's a rather counter intuitive that a person of your professional path would spend time and money and but his own reputation, both professional and personal on the line in order to come to this country, the military defeat of which is still the state policy goal of your government. my . well, although yes it's true. my background is in securities law. i started on wall street and then became most carriers class actions were that has little to do with my origin as a human being. i am the child of 2 greek immigrants, neither of whom had a high school education, who came from greece in the aftermath of the 2nd world war and the civil war and greece in the 1950s. so i have very humble origins and i have never forgotten that by the time i had just law for 25 years,

i was economically secure. and i felt enormously grateful for that fact. and i had to think hard about how i could compensate or give back for my extraordinary good fortune. and so i became an activist, a journalist, i don't do that as a living. it's more passion. and when this war erupted, and i became absolutely convinced that this was the most, and i hope i'm wrong, that this is the most dangerous moment. i think humanity is ever confronted. not just because of the war, but because of the context in which this is happening, climate crisis and so forth. i asked myself, how can i contribute? how can i do something, anything, to try to diffuse the tension. and so i came to russia. now, as far as i understand, this is your 1st time you can train, you've been not only to moscow, but also to crimea in which the canadian government does not recognize as, as part of russia. and before asking about your impressions. i,

i want to ask as a lawyer, do you think you will faith in your legal repercussions for traveling to that? well, i shouldn't. as a lawyer, there's many check. yes, of course, yes i've, i've done nothing that no, that anybody could plausibly claim to be often don't always act in accordance with the law. so there's, there's some possibility and i hope that this doesn't materialize, that people in positions of power will try to exploit that position in order to intimidate me and make an example out of me and prevent others from following in my footsteps. i don't think that's gonna happen, but it's not, and it's not a possibility that i exclude because i am realistic about how the political system operates in our country. and even if the government doesn't have a case against here, very radical, ukrainian nathi, ukrainian authorities are, you know, the establishment of that community. but it's true that as a whole, and particularly at the level of that community,

i'm talking particularly about the ukranian fleet in congress. they are quite right, wing, and crate, quite militaristic interview. up until now there's is not, not been to my knowledge, any acts of violence against people who have opposed what i regard as a proxy war. but what i'm more concerned about his reputational assassination, and not from ukrainians, but from the mainstream media and the political class. and as a matter of fact, on monday of this week, the flagship newspaper of canada's largest newspaper publisher, newspapers called the national post, published a front page story about me, basically smearing me and accusing me of having come to rush in order to whitewash the crimes of its government and fortunately because of my painful experience with the media in the past, i recorded the entire conversation and posted it on my my website and invited people to decide for themselves whether or not that's what i have to do. you think it makes sense to pursue them, not only in the, in the course of public opinion, but actually see down for saying what they said about. i've actually had occasion

to do that because of criticism that i leveled against supporters of israel in our country. i was accused of being a supporter of terrorism in 2017, by a very, very strident pro israel group, and i sued them for defamation, and ultimately the case settled and they retracted their statements and paid some compensation. but i also know as a, somebody has experience with defamation law that the canadas it's, it's a difficult path to recover compensation of defamation action. and i don't understand why the government is tried to strike a balance between free speech and protecting reputations. so i am very, very hesitant about using the course of law to protect my reputation. i'd rather do that by means of debate. now, returning to the means of debate. how was crimea, when did you expect to find there? and what did you find there? in actuality, well, 1st of all, i didn't know that that the crimea was so beautiful. it reminded me very much of the south of greece, where i now have

a home in telemachus can any connections where they are. i didn't know that either, and i visited the community or the ruins of jerone source in the vessel so, so the beauty of it was a surprise to me. the fact that the war was now, i spent a fair bit of time at the altar. i didn't really see any overt signs of the war they're out there but, but at the same time you could tell that people were somber and that it wasn't at all the festive environment. i think people obviously are very conscious of the war when i would just have us to pull, there was actually an attack. i don't, i don't know exactly what happened, but the air defense systems were activated. and then i went to the north of crimea to the board of hassan, and visited refugee center. and there the, i felt the proximity of the war much more. there was military equipment everywhere, a heis, their state of alert security, and the refugee center workers that i spoke to. didn't want their faces to be exposed to the camera. so there, you know, i felt as i say, that the proximity of war more. but i never got closer than 50 kilometers to the

front line and having see what i've seen, i can't imagine how difficult it is to actually live in close proximity to the from line up. so okay, and i'm sure it's a even more difficult for, for the people on the other side, a in ukraine or especially in keith and those areas where there were a sale going on now on the ukrainian government definition of victory still includes at really taking crimea i understand you are not the military specialist, but having been there, do you think that's a realistic expectation? either in strategic terms or in terms of hearts and minds because i'm sure you've spoken to people. yes. yes, i don't think it's remotely realistic and either set. i did not speak to a single individual there who expressed a desire to see crimea reunited with ukraine. i spoke to many people who were passionately opposed to that. i and declared their determination to offered

themselves up in resistance if that were actually attempted in terms of the military ality. you're quite right, i'm not a military specialist. but i learned as i approached the border with sun that the only let the only connection between from a land perspective, between crimea and facilitator to very narrow political peninsulas. and we traveled through one of them. and there were several lines of defense, anti tank obstacles, extensive trench works. they were wide open, there was no tree cover at all. there were 2 large bodies of water on either side. and it was apparent to me as a lay person, but any attempt to enter the peninsula through his to a narrow corridors of land would be disastrous. i think it's, you know, i don't need to rely only upon my own judgment as lay person. american military officials have begun to acknowledge openly that this is a poetry and i think that it would be suicidal both from a political perspective. moreover, from a military perspective, for the crate of the cranium government to attempt to retake from here. why do you

think the ukrainian government gsa continuing to press that my by d. n. my to think they need? well, i think i spoke to a gentleman that his name was a said to go to batch off who, who i understand no relation to the child or the former presence of it. you know, he is a journalist now a military corresponded. i met him in sebastopol and he said, you know, to well understood that to he who controls so crimea controls of lexi. so i imagine, you know, that this is a matter of strategic importance to the ukranian government. there's obviously a tremendous of utility and controlling for mia geopolitically. i think there's also a tremendous amount of prestige attached to it. and that to the they feel that if they could retake that, that would be a resounding victory for the state of ukraine. but again, this is i think highly responsible and something that they should in the, in the interest of peace and the in the safe insecurities. their own people.

because even if they retook crimea, that would probably result in lasting instability within ukraine. of course, there is a huge elephant in the room here, and this is the, the position of western countries that are funding and this war. and that i'm sure i agree with the assessment of your journalist friend. that though whoever controls crimea, controls the black. see, because that, that issue, that strategic issue was there much discussed when the in the coverage government was top, went back in 2014. and that the ukranian authority started talking about evicting they, the russian fleet from there. i wonder how do you understand the genesis of this whole conflict the way when does it start for you? well, i think it's been in the making for decades. i think there have been attempts by the west, although they were unsuccessful in very covert from it for a long time to create instability and division within the relationship between ukraine and the rush. i think it was all the way back to the 900 fifties, frankly,

when the united states government was covertly funding and supporting and trying to invigorate ultra nationalism and ukraine. but i think the really pivotal of pivotal event was the overthrow of gentle coverage. cheer you had a president who was he was democratically elected. whatever's flaws may have been and he was certainly not a perfect leader. well, he didn't have the appearance of justice adjusting to they'll buy that doesn't. bill also has some very questionable governance scale. i couldn't agree more, i couldn't agree more. but in any event, he was democratically elected in his support became as i understand, principally from the southeast of ukraine in korea. and she, everybody refers to him as a puppet to the potent government. i think he was simply doing the responsible thing and tried to maintain good relations with russia, which was what a supporters wanted when he was overthrown effectively. what happened was the vote of the ukrainians who supported him was stolen from them. and this just cascaded

into one tragedy after another, culminating in open warfare between ukraine in russia. to me, that was the pivotal event. can i ask you something, because you mentioned the early 19th just when the american authorities are stoking a ukrainian nationalism in the soviet union. and at that time, the canadian authorities, as well as the american authorities, were giving refuge eagerly here the nazi collaborators, ukrainian nationalist. and it's hard for us to understand that why something like that would be happening because having traveled to the united states having been to canada, having been see a great many times, we're not that much different. why do you think it's easier for the west then? consequentially for ukraine to demonize this country and it's people because i mean, we have our flaws, but we are not much worse than you who i wouldn't say you're worse at all. i mean, we're all human beings and my interaction with russians has convinced me. admittedly, i'm to jo, expert in russia,

but that does that. they're very decent people and if you get to know them the very warm and generous people, and i wish that i could, you know, bring thousands of canadians overture with me in order to enable them to interact personally with the russian people. i think it's very important when we talk about the conflict between our countries to distinguish between people, to people, relations, and government to government relations. the government of canada does not represent, as you've implied yourself, i think the will of the people. so for example, a recent poll in february showed that only 32 percent of the population support the transfer of weapons to ukraine. at this stage, they've had enough only 32 percent. every single member of parliament, as far as i know, some 3338 parliamentarians of canada support publicly the transfer of weapons to ukraine. so what is happening at the elite level at the political level is effectively canada has outsourced its foreign policy. washington and washington's

agenda is one of global hegemony. washington will not tolerate, and i think that they're not even, they're not even a subtle about this. you know, they, they will not tolerate a global rival. and russia is perceived as a country that is both potentially powerful rival and also determined with the current government. not to submit to the will of the americans, and then you have time to be ourselves. i mean, we don't want to impose our will into canadians, but we want the right to leave on our land as we please. dmitri, because it's my studio. i take my right, you a call for a short break, but a few minutes stating, ah, mm mm eighty's.

hi, i'm rec center, and i'm here to plead with you whatever you do, do not watch my new shell. seriously. why watch something that's so different. my little opinion that you won't get anywhere else. look at it, please. if you have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations, choose your facts for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't watch my show stay mainstream because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way things ah welcome back to one of the points with demetrius carter is lawyer and journalist, an activist from canada. demetria just before the break here, you mentioned that only 32 percent of the canadian public support army ukraine. and

it's a you can argue that it's a relatively low level of passive support. but you know, people, people's opinions change depending on what media trying to shape within narratives . and i want to close candidates deputy prime minister christian freeland, who said about a year ago when this conflict wasn't, it's opening stages that the world's democracies can be safe. only once the russian tyrant and he's armies are entirely one question. what do you think would be the cost of such safety for the canadian society? because if for ms. freeland wants to vanquish the, the russian army she will have to, you know, put in more than just wars. because of the cost will be incalculable and possibly the ultimate cost, which is nuclear war. i don't think the government, you know, just by what said, no,

i don't think the government of russia has any desire to use nuclear weapons. but their policy, as is the policy of every nuclear power, is if existentially threaten, they will consider use netflix essentially threaten them in your countries. something happens to my country and those weapons are being used not only to kill soldiers, but the ukraine use use as tara tactics a lot. you know, there were, there have been several terrorist attacks in crimea and in some russian cities. so indirectly, the west is supporting terrorist. absolutely, and you know, interpol, i'll also warn the head of inequality months ago that these weapons are ultimately going and up in the hands of criminal organizations. just a last week. the paras, so the french authorities arrested to alter nationalists who were turned from ukraine with prohibited weapons in france. so you have that issue, you have the issue of the economic deep stabilization. i think it's quite clear from the there was an excellent article by james galbraith, an economist, the united states recently which showed that the sanctions are doing more damage to

the west than they are to russia. so you also have, i think just growing and put political instability from the economic impacts of this. there's a range of ways in which this war will ultimately de stabilize the west. i think it's already jane that added that i want to mention to other permanent american political voices, richard carson transcription to big names and policy circles who mason published an article in foreign policy, calling for the united states to change its tactics and that not allow ukraine to define the, the, an goals of this campaign. now, if the americans withdraw and they have a track record of simply abandoning that, that now is if they do that for electoral political, economic, whatever reasons, what do you think the canadian authorities is going to do? do you think they will continue sticking for will cranford to say no, i would be astonished if they do that. first of all, the appetite, if the american stopped supporting this travesty, i think the public,

whatever public sport exists for it will operate immediately. but i think that the canadian government understands perfectly well that the only way this war can be sustained as by massive support from united states. if that goes away, canada will become a bit player and will be forced to withdraw. well, i guess that's where citizens, citizen diplomacy can play a role, especially given that the right now the exchanges between our countries are almost frozen, especially between canada and russia. and the whole movement itself originated back in the seventy's, in the eighty's, when athletes, artist, businessman started, you know, coming from the west to russia and vice versa. and i remember that back to the time, the west supported this moment, the thinking that it was a nice soft power to why do you think there's so much a position to it now? because as a russian, i can go to canada right now. i cannot get the visa,

my credit cards don't work there. so why do you think western authorities are not welcoming thinks that they do, for example? well, because interaction results in revelation of the truth when you actually interact with the so called enemy, you realize what in fact is going on. it's very easy in canada because so few people have actually ever been to russia or for example to china, to misrepresent what's going on there. because they don't. and probably never will have the opportunity for direct interaction with russians or chinese in their own country. and so they lie relentlessly of hope it's, it's, it's actually quite astonishing and they get away with it frankly. and you know, going back to the poll, where's 32 percent? what one imagines how low the number would be if people were actually being troll, told the truth about this conflict. so i think they're trying to sever relationships with direct people to people relationships in order to be able to sustain the propaganda narrative. and i, i know, i say, you know, when, when the immediately band r t, i come here to days to speak to you accent as a,

as an act of defiance. because i cannot object strongly enough to the idea of depriving people of access to russian media even if they are government funded, even if they have a pro government perspective. so to ours, this is the media, you know, out on the, on some level i can understand that i approve of that, but i understand why they would c r t as sort of as a propaganda tool. because we do, i express often the position of the russian government we, we do, i make distinctions between an, in a news and opinions and we tried to be transparent. but it's, it's politics after all. but when they tried to ban russian culture, classical russian culture, i mean, things that were studied in american, a western universities for decades. this is something dad than defies any critical thinking. yes, it, it in and amounts really to russ

a phobia and outright racism. to be perfectly blunt about it. i saw a report yesterday. the russian tennis player was prevented from taking a flight to a tournament on polish airlines simply because she was russian. i think of his insane, i mean, why, even if you believe that the 100 percent the narrative of the west about the legality of this war, why should she be held as prejudiced a privateer for nationality? it's an effort to demonize all things russian. now, one of the pioneers of citizen diplomacy physicist robert fuller, who traveled at frequently to the soviet union, back in the seventy's and eighty's, believe that this is something that sort of a form of personal responsibility that this is something that people can bring to the well then that he applied it, not only adds to the soviet union, but also to, to many other countries. i one day if you have any, some goals or ambitions or,

or wishes to travel to some other places that i, there was describes as the axes of level. have you been to iran? have you been to syria? i don't know. i as his matter of fact, i resolved last year to visit within the next to one to 2 years. every official enemy of the west that would take me to china. and i specifically want to visit the province of jin chang. because the west alleges that the genocide is occurring there, i want to go to we ran within the next year, i've already been to venezuelan, covered the attempt to overthrow the government of a doodle. so that one's a that, that, that initiative has been taken care of, but yeah, i think this is a part of a broader project which i am personally able to undertake. i'm very fortunate to do that to try to open the eyes of the west to the official enemies of the west. what kind of feedback you are getting from people who follow you on social media or in inviting a sharply divergent reactions to show what you say. oh, there are people who are extraordinarily supportive people who've come out of the

woodwork and some of them i identify as eco socialist. some people who would normally be my political opponents of privately communicated to me that they're very, very impressed by this initiative. then you have people who are sort of with, they don't know what to make of it, and they want to have a good faith conversation and try to understand why i've done this. and then there are people who are just as i say, engaging and open reputational assassination. and that's been quite a, that's been the most difficult part of this whole thing. now, one of prominent russian re, analysts, the reason they suggested that at the core of this conflict, or at least one of the reasons for the conflict is the fact that russia and the west, the social progress in very different terms. for, for the west it's all about, you know, expression of liberties and some abstract ideas. and that's perhaps a consequence of pretty comfortable lives that you guys have had over the last couple of decades for russia, for china, for venezuela,

for many of those countries, it's much more about access to social infrastructure and giving people our basic social services and ensuring you know some bread and butter issues. i wonder if there is any truth to that as far as you are concerned. and what does it take for a westerner to sort of take off days, sand judge code, leave it behind, and try to look at the society the way days without applying all those judge a mental on framework. so how things are supposed to be, you know, having, i guess, a basic compassion for, for the country and the people and see how, how far they have progressed from, let's say, 10 years ago. well, you know, this notion of western exceptionalism is so indoctrinated into the population of west that it's very difficult for them to grasp that maybe people don't attach the same importance to material benefits and well being as they do. one of the things

that struck me about co, russian, i know there's a large proportion of the people here who don't really, they're not avid a orthodox russians, but the level of spirituality among the russian people has quite impressed me. i grew up in the greek orthodox church. i'm not a religious man. so seen this level of commitment to orthodoxy is a little bit unusual for me. and i said that's made a big impression on me. the 1st 2 days i was here, i spoke with a russian living in moscow now is how high school teacher and she, he actually did a ph. d had oxford in spanish literature of all things came back to moscow and he recounted to me what the russian people went through with the collapse of the soviet union, the ninety's and how terrible that was. and how things of that is that the stability that has in the cohesion level of social cohesion that has developed in the 20 years since. and he said, you know, for russians that matters a great deal more than profits. a great deal more than you know, the latest gizmos from your apple store and has made it be difficult for you to

comprehend. but we just have a different value set. and based to what i've seen, i think that's, that's true. and we as the western, this is why say, i think personal interaction so important. if people could actually meet russians living in russia who don't necessarily agree with the western narrative about their country. they would understand that their values are not quite the same as our values. well, to make sure we have to live in there, but it's been a fascinating conversation. thanks very much for that and the good luck with your journey. thank you so much picture and thank you for watching hope to sara. again, honeywell to part with mm. with

lou needs to come to the russian state total narrative. i've stayed as i phone and ignore some scheme with eclipse in the 55 when. okay, so 9 is 25, i'm speaking with ben in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state aunt, rush up to date, and c, r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band to on you to send with

me. okay, defense secretary ben wallace recently said i'm optimistic between this year and the next year. i think ukraine will continue to have the momentum with it and a position of strength. he also said, there is no magic one moment when russia collapses. in what universe is wallace reside? with memory of the dozens of the little burned alive i ukrainian grunted cool nationalists in odessa 9 years ago this tuesday in amsterdam take to see the commemorate the heretic, a man who witnessed the lineup with green is a cherished state that has taken its entire population hostage there is no hope for ukraine. that's was sure 100 percent. so the only hope is if the russian military

operation ends up as flood with israel slightly aleppo international airport in syria killing one soldier according to local media, a number of other.