block, the opposition media channels and crack down on russian language. why know george and ribbons? because they want to repeat the ukrainian scenario. we're going down ukraine's power. our biggest fear today's that, moldova is not only politically resembling ukraine, but will also be in the conflict. especially when ukrainian leaders are asking us to get involved when i ask why, but it's apparent to destabilize the situation to expand the war zone, to have as many countries involved in the ukraine conflict as possible. and to possibly have nato involve to me. well, that wraps up this new bulletin. ok, sorry boy code on world a pod next. and we'll be back at the top of the alpha with with

mm hm. and welcome to, well, to part one handshake at a time that used to be in the motor of citizen or people's diplomacy and movement that originated in the letter years of the cold war. and is often credit has been helping to bring it to an ann. doesn't stand a chance nowadays when russia and western countries have cut their diplomatic exchanges to historic minimum. well, to discuss that i'm now joined by dimitri last cut is a lawyer, journalist, an activist from canada. demetrius good to see a thank you very much for coming over. thank you so much for having me. i know you've been, are here in russia for slightly less than a month. can i ask for a rough estimate of how many russian hands you have shaken to heart over a 100 from across the span of generations and political orientations and,

and it's been a fascinating and i would say surprising experience. now i know that you are a successful the lawyer from canada. you made a name for yourself, i in the corporate world than that. you know, it's rather counter intuitive that a person of your professional path was spend time and money and but his own reputation, both professional and personnel on the line in order to come to this country. the military defeat of which is still the stated policy. goal of your government? my? well, although yes it's true. my background is in securities law. i started on wall street and then became most curious class actions were that has little to do with my origin as a human being. i am the child of 2 greek immigrants, neither of whom had a high school education, who came from greece in the aftermath of the 2nd world war and the civil war and

greece in the 1950s. so i have very humble origins and i have never forgotten that by the time i had practiced law for 25 years, i was economically secure. and i felt enormously grateful for that fact. and i had to think hard about how i could compensate or give back for my extraordinary good fortune. and so i became an activist, a journalist, i don't do that as a living. it's more passion. and when this war erupted, and i became absolutely convinced that this was the most, and i hope i'm wrong, that this is the most dangerous moment. i think humanity is ever confronted. not just because of the war, but because of the context in which this is happening, climate crisis and so forth. i asked myself, how can i contribute? how can i do something, anything, to try to diffuse the tension. and so i came to russia. now, as far as i understand, this is your 1st time, you know, just patron, you've been not only to moscow, but also to crimea. i wish the canadian government does not

recognize as, as part of russia and before asking about your impressions. i, i want to ask as a lawyer, do you think you will face any legal repercussions for traveling to that? well, i shouldn't. as a lawyer there's, have you checked? yes, of course. yes i've, i've done nothing. you know, that anybody could plausibly claim to be a violation of canadian law. nonetheless, the authorities don't often don't always act in accordance with the law. so there's, there's some possibility and i hope that this doesn't materialize, that people in positions of power will try to exploit that position in order to intimidate me and make an example out of me and prevent others from following in my footsteps. i don't think that's going to happen, but it's not, and it's not a possibility i exclude because i some realistic about how the political system operates in our country. and even if the government doesn't have

a case against here, i mean canada is home to a very large ukranian diaspora and some of whom are direct descendants and die hard apologists of fine very radical ukrainian nationalists and nap say, collaborators. i wonder if it's save to do something like that at a time when people have actually been not only intimidated by assassinated because of standing against the ukranian authorities or you know, western authorities who support them well in canada that it's true that there is a very large or ukrainian cane in community, i know some people in that community who are committed to peace and who are, who do not identify at all with the establishment of that community. but it's true that as a whole, and particularly at the elite level of that community, i'm talking particularly about the ukrainian creating congress. they are quite

right wing, and crate, quite militaristic interview. up until now, this is not not been to my knowledge, any acts of violence against people who have opposed what i regard as a proxy war. but what i'm more concerned about is reputational assassination, and not from ukrainians, but from the mainstream media and the political class. and as a matter of fact, on monday of this week, the flagship newspaper of canada's largest newspaper publisher, the newspapers called the national post, published a front page story about me, basically smearing me and accusing me of having come to rush in order to whitewash the crimes of its government and fortunately because of my painful experience with the media in the past, i record the entire conversation and posted it on my my website and invited people to decide for themselves whether or not that's what i had to do. you think it makes sense to pursue them, not only in the, in the court of public opinion, but actually see you down for saying what they said about. i've actually had occasion to do that. but because of criticism that i leveled against supporters of

israel in our country, i was accused of been a supporter of terrorism in 2017, a by a very, very strident pro israel group. and i sued them for defamation. and ultimately the case settled and they retracted their statements and paid some compensation. but i also know as a, somebody has experience with defamation law that the candidates it's, it's a difficult path to recover compensation and information action. and i don't, i understand why the, the government is tried to strike a balance between free speech and protecting reputations. so i am very, very hesitant about using the course of law to protect my reputation. i'd rather do that by means of debate. now i'm returning to the means of debate. how was crimea, when did you expect to find there? and what did you find there in actuality? well, 1st of all, i didn't know that that the crimea was so beautiful. it reminded me very much of the south of greece, where i now have a home in coloma, any connections or i didn't know that either. and i visited the community or the

ruins of chil, any source in serviceable. so, so the beauty of it was a surprise to me, the fact that the war was now, i spent a fair bit of time in the delta. i didn't really see any overt signs of the war there. and but, but at the same time you could tell that people were somber and that it wasn't at all a festive environment. i think people obviously are very conscious of the war when i would just have us to pull, there was actually an attack. i don't, i don't know exactly what happened with the air defense systems were activated. and then i went to the north of the of crimea to the board of his son and visited refugee center. and there the, i felt the proximity of the war much more. there was military equipment everywhere . a heis lou state of alert security and the refugee center workers that i spoke to . didn't want their faces to be exposed to the camera. so there, you know, i felt as i say, that the proximity of war more, but i never got closer than 50 kilometers to the front line. and having see what

i've seen, i can't imagine how difficult it is to actually live in close proximity to from large. absolutely, and i'm sure it's, i even more difficult for, for the people on the other side. they a, in ukraine or especially in keith and those areas where they have is we're still going on now on the ukrainian government definition of victory still includes re taking crimea. i understand you are not a military specialist, but having been there, do you think that's a realistic expectation? either in strategic terms or in terms of hearts and minds because i'm sure you've spoken to people. yes. yes. i don't think it's remotely realistic and either set. i did not speak to a single individual there who expressed a desire to see crimea, re united with ukraine. i spoke to many people who were passionately opposed to that idea and declared their determination to offer themselves up in resistance if

that were actually attempted in terms of the military ality. you're quite right, i'm not a military specialist. but i learned as i approach the border with cassandra that the only let the only connection between from a land perspective, between crimea and for a song or 2 very narrow police peninsulas. and we traveled through one of them. and there were several lines of defense, anti tank obstacles, extensive trench works. they were wide open, there was no tree cover at all. there were 2 large bodies of water on either side. and it was apparent to me as a lay person that any attempt to enter the peninsula through his to a narrow corridors of land would be disastrous. i think. and it's, you know, i don't need to rely only upon my own judgment as lee person. american military officials have begun to acknowledge openly that this is a pipe dream. and i think that it would be suicidal both from a political perspective and moreover, from a military perspective for the crate, the cranium government to attempt to retake korea. why do you think the ukranian

government gsa continuing to press that pipe idea my to think they need? well, i think i spoke to a gentleman that his name was said to go to bitch off who, who i understand no relation to the child or the former presence of you. he is a journalist, now a military corresponded. i met him in sebastopol and he said, you know, it's well understood that he who controls or crimea controls see. so i imagine you know, that this is a matter of strategic importance to the ukranian government. there's obviously a tremendous utility in controlling for mia geopolitically. i think there's also a tremendous amount of prestige attached to it. and that the, the, they feel that if they could retake it, that that would be a resounding victory for the state of ukraine. but again, this is i think highly responsible in something that they should have in the interest of peace and in the safety and security of their own people. because even if they retook crimea,

that would probably result in lasting instability within ukraine. of course, there is a huge elephant in the room here, and this is the, the position of western countries that are funding this war. and that i'm sure i agree with the assessment of your journalist friend. that though whoever controls crimea, controls the black sea. because that, that issue, that strategic issue was very much discussed when the, in the college government was toppling back in 2014. and the ukranian authorities started talking about evicting the, the russian fleet from there. i wonder how do you understand the genesis of this whole conflict the way when does it start for you? well, i think it's been in the making for decades. i think there have been attempts by the west, although they were unsuccessful and very covert from it for a long time to create instability and division within the relationship between ukraine and the rush. i think it was all the way back to the 1950s. frankly, when the united states government was covertly funding and supporting and trying to

invigorate ultra nationalism and ukraine. but i think that really pivotal of pivotal event was the overthrow of gender coverage cheer. you had a president who was, he was democratically elected. whatever's flaws may have been, and he was certainly not a perfect leader. well, he didn't have the appearance of justice justin to they'll by the also has some very questionable, a governing scale to i couldn't agree more. i couldn't agree more about any of that . he was democratically elected in his support became as i understand, principally from the southeast of ukraine in korea. and she, everybody refers to him as a puppet to the put in government. i think he was simply doing the responsible thing and tried to maintain good relations with russia, which was what the supporters wanted when he was overthrown effectively, what happened was the vote of the ukrainians who supported him was stolen from them . and this just re cascaded into one tragedy after another, culminating in open warfare between ukraine and russia. to me,

that was the pivotal event. can i ask you something? because you mentioned the early 19th, just when the american authorities are stoking a ukrainian nationalism and the soviet union. and at that time, the canadian authorities, as well as the american authorities, were giving refuge eagerly here the inter, nazi collaborators, ukrainian nationalist. and it's hard for us to understand that why something like that, what would be happening? because having traveled to the united states having been to canada, having been c again, many times. we're not that much different. why do you think it's so easy for the west then consequentially for ukraine to demonize this country. and it's people because i mean, we have our flaws, but we are not much worse than you who i wouldn't say you're worse at all. i mean, we're all human beings in my interaction with russian sir, has convinced me, admittedly, i'm to your expert in russia, but that does that. they're very decent people. and if you get to know them the

very warm and generous people, and i wish that i could, you know, bring thousands of canadians overture with me in order to enable them to interact personally with the russian people. i think it's very important when we talk about the conflict between our countries to distinguish between people, to people, relations, and government to government relations. the government of canada does not represent as you've since implied your self. i think the will of the people. so for example, a recent poll in february show them support the transfer of web. washington's agenda is one of the global powerful rival and also determined with the current government not to submit to the will of the americans. and then you have time to be ourselves. i mean, we don't want to impose our willing to canadians, but we want the right to leave on our land as we please. dmitri, because it's my studio. i take my right, you a call for a short break, but i mean, just a few minutes. stay tuned. ah

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welcome back to one of the parts of it and demetrius carter, lawyer, journalist, and activists from canada. demetria just before the break here, you mentioned that only 32 percent of the canadian public support army ukraine. and it's, you can argue that it's a relatively low level of passive support, but you know, people, people's opinions change depending on what media trying to shape or where they're narratives. and i want to close candidates deputy prime minister christian re lent, who said about a year ago when this conflict wasn't its opening stages, that the world's democracies can be safe only once the russian tyrant and he's armies are entirely one question. what do you think would be the cost of such safety for the canadian society? because if miss freeland wants to vanquish the, their russian army,

she will have to, you know, put in more than just wars. the cause of the cost will be incalculable. and possibly the ultimate cost to which is nuclear war. i don't think the government, you know, just by what said north, i don't think the government of russia has any desire to use nuclear weapons. but their policy has, is the policy of every nuclear power is if existentially threaten, they will consider thanks essentially threatened them in your country. something happens to my country and those weapons are being used not only to kill soldiers, but you can use use as tara tactics a lot. you know, they were, they have been several terrorist attacks in crimea, and in some russian cities. so indirectly, the west is supporting terrorist. absolutely, and you know, interpol, i'll also warn the head of interpol a few months ago that these weapons are ultimately going and up in the hands of criminal organizations. just a last week. the paras, so the french authorities arrested to alter nationalists who were turned from

ukraine was prohibited weapons in france. so you have that issue, you have the issue of the economic deep stabilization. i think it's quite clear from the there was an excellent article by james galbraith and economists in united states recently which showed that the sanctions are doing more damage to the west than they are to russia. so you also have, i think just growing and put political instability from the economic impacts of this. there's a range of ways in which this war will ultimately de stabilize the west. oh, i think it's already doing that and i want to mention to other permanent american political voices, richard carson transcription to big names and policy circles who recently published an article in foreign policy, calling for the united states to change its tactics and that not allow ukraine to define the, the, an goals of this campaign. now, if the americans withdraw and they have a track record of simply abandoning that, that now is if they do that for electoral political, economic, whatever reasons,

what do you think the canadian authorities is going to do? do you think they will continue sticking for will crane? so to say no, i would be astonished if they do that. first of all, the appetite, if the american stop supporting this travesty, i think the public, whatever public sport exists for it will evaporate immediately. but i think that the canadian government understands perfectly well that the only way this war can be sustained despite massive support from united states. if that goes away, canada will become a bit player and will be forced to withdraw. well, i guess that's, that's where citizens, citizen diplomacy can play a role, especially given that the right now the exchanges between our countries are almost frozen, especially between canada and russia. and the whole movement itself originated back in the seventy's, in the eighty's. when athletes are tis businessman started, you know, coming from the west to russia and vice versa. and i remember the back of the time,

the west supported this movement, the thinking that it was a nice soft power to. why do you think there's so much a position to it now? because as a russian, i cannot go to canada right now. i cannot get the visa, my credit cards don't work there. so why do you think the western authorities are not welcoming thinks that they do, for example? well, because interaction results in revelation of the truth when you actually interact with the so called enemy, you realize what in fact is going on. it's very easy in canada because so few people have actually ever been to russia or for example to china, to misrepresent what's going on there. because they don't. and probably never will have the opportunity for direct interaction with russians or chinese in their own country. and so they lie relentlessly of hope it's, it's, it's actually quite astonishing and they get away with it, frankly. and you know, going back to that pool was 32 percent. what, when imagine how low the number would be if people were actually being true,

told the truth about this conflict. so i think they're trying to sever relationships with direct people to people relationships in order to be able to sustain the propaganda narrative. and i know, i say, you know, when, when the immediately band r t, i come here to days to speak to you accent as a, as an act of defiance. because i cannot object strongly enough to the idea of depriving people of access to russian media even if they are government funded, even if they have a pro government perspective. so to ours, this is the media, you know, out on the, on some level i can understand that i approve of that, but i understand why they would c r t as sort of as a propaganda tool. because we do, i express often the position of the russian government we, we do, i make distinctions between an, in a news and opinions and we tried to be transparent. but it's, it's politics after all. but when they tried to ban russian culture,

classical russian culture, i mean, things that were started in american, a western universities for decades. this is something bad than 5, any critical thinking. yes. it, it in and amounts really to russ a phobia and outright racism. to be perfectly blunt about it. i saw a report yesterday. the russian tennis player was, was prevented from taking a flight to a tournament on polish airlines simply because she was russian. i think of his insane, i mean, why, even if you believe that the 100 percent the narrative of the west about the legality of this war, why should she be held as prejudiced prior to her nationality? it's an effort to demonize all things russia. now, one of the pioneers of citizen diplomacy, physicists, roberts fuller, who traveled as frequently to the soviet union back in the seventy's and eighty's. believe that this is something dad sort of a form of personal responsibility that this is something that people can bring to

that. well then that he applied it, not only adds to the soviet union, but also to too many other countries. i one day if you have any goals or ambitions or, or wishes to travel to some other places that i, there was describes as the axes of level having been to iran. have you been to syria? i know i as his matter of fact, i resolved last year to visit within the next to one to 2 years. every official enemy of the west that would take me to china. and i specifically want to visit the province of jin chang. because the west alleges that the genocide is occurring there. i want to go to we ran within the next year, i've already been to venezuelan, covered the attempt to overthrow the government model. so that one's a that, that, that initiative has been taken care of. but yeah, i think this is a part of a broader project which i am personally able to undertake. i'm very fortunate to do that to try to open the eyes of the west, to the official interviews with the west. what kind of feedback you are getting

from people who follow you on social media or in writing a sharply divergent reactions to show what you say. there are people who are extraordinarily supportive people who come out of the woodwork and some of them i identify as equal socialist. some people who would normally be my political opponents of privately communicated to me that they're very, very impressed by this initiative. then you have people who are sort of what they don't know what to make of it. and they want to have an a good faith conversation and try to understand why i've done this. and then there are people who are just written, as i say, engaging and open reputational assassination. and that's been quite, that's been the most difficult part of this whole thing. now, one of the prominent russian, a rental is the reason they suggested that the core of this conflict, at least one of the reasons for this conflict is the fact that russia and the west sea social progress in very different terms. for, for the west, it's all about,

you know, expression of liberties and some abstract ideas. and that's per perhaps a consequence of pretty comfortable lives that you guys have had over the last couple of decades for russia for china falls. and it's all for many of the countries, it's much more about access to social infrastructure and giving people basic social services and ensuring going to some bread and butter issues. i wonder if there is any truth to that as far as you are concerned. and what does it take for a westerner to sort of take off day sam, judge code, leave it behind, and try to look at the society the way days without applying all those judge a mental on framework. so how things are supposed to be, you know, having, i guess the basic compassion for, for the country and the people and see how, how far they have progressed from, let's say, 10 years ago. well, you know,

this notion of western exceptionalism is so indoctrinated into the population of the quest that it's very difficult for them to grasp that maybe people don't attach the same importance to material benefits and well being as they do. one of the things that struck me about russian, i know there's a large proportion of the people here who don't really, they're not avid or orthodox russians, but the level of spirituality among the russian people has quite impressed me. i grew up in the greek orthodox church. i'm not a religious man. so seen this level of commitment to orthodoxy is a little bit unusual for me. and i said that's made a big impression on me. the 1st 2 days i was here, i spoke with a russian living in moscow now is how high school teacher and she, he actually did a ph. d at oxford in spanish literature, of all things came back to moscow. and he recounted to me what the russian people went through with the collapse the soon in the ninety's and how terrible that was. and how things happen is that the stability that has in the cohesion level of

social cohesion that has developed in the 20 years since. and he said, you know, for russians that matters a great deal more than profits. a great deal more than you know, the latest gizmos from your apple at his door and has made it be difficult for you to comprehend. but we just have a different value set. and based to what i've seen, i think that's, that's true. and we as the western, this is why say, i think personal interaction so important people could actually meet russians living in russia who don't necessarily agree with the western narrative about their country. they would understand that their values are not quite the same as our values. well, to make sure we have to live in there, but it's been a fascinating conversation. thanks very much for that. then i would like one of your journeys. thank you so much for pictures and thank you for watching hope to hear again well to part with

for you. ok, defense secretary ben wallace recently said i'm optimistic between this year and the next year. i think ukraine will continue to have the momentum with it. and a position of strength. he also said, there is no magic one moment when russia collapses, in what university is wallace reside. with breaking news for on israel, several people are devoted wounded in a mis solid track on the city of that up near the border with canyon authorities. good fun though. several children

were faithfully strangled, as they were among about 100 victims of death, cold, who buried in a mass. i'm germany gives us the greenlight for is national movie to participate in that you mission in niger, but local residence in the west african country. they increase for present only undermine the security situation. they will cease control of the parliament before making decisions. we don't degrade with.