okay, but this one, they, russian intelligence build born who is the oregon line and they will decorate all the international community grieves responsible and who you are unacceptable and aggressive moment, according to international law. it is unacceptable. and also harmful, also getting low. and i have to rush out really out there, according to him asking a low well, that's all for now if all the late this to on the drone at sack on the chrome and do head over to our web sites r t dot com. my name is peter scott. let me back with all the late fees in around about 30 minutes time. thanks for watching. ah ah

ah ah ah ah. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . you k defense secretary ben wallace recently said i'm optimistic between this year and the next year. i think ukraine will continue to have the momentum with it and a position of strength. he also said,

there's no magic one moment when russia collapses. in what universe does wallace reside? in cross talking confused narratives. i'm joined by my guess, calling raleigh in apple valley. she is a retired f. b. i agent in a former minneapolis division legal counsel in belgrade. we have stephen guy each. he is a research associate at belgrade institute for european studies. and in cons we crossed to alex me hello, but he is a veteran reporter and a foreign affairs analyst. i cross i pros and the fact that means you can jump at anytime you want, and i would appreciate it was go to belgrade for steven. let me go to you. i know it's easy to pick on ben wall glorified nobody. but you know everyone around these leads, they tell you exactly what they're thinking, not what they want us to think. ok. so he thinks that thing things are going just hunky dory, for the ukrainians and rushes is facing imminent collapse here. all while in the

background we have all of these leaks that came through a 21 year old reservists saying completely opposite things here. so, i mean, do we filled this have any lead to message and, but the realities are hidden behind the curtain that every once in a while through leaks. if they're real, i can't tell. they are not. tell us a very different story. go ahead in belgrade, i think that the elites in the west are, became victims essentially, and hostages of their own propaganda. they got high on their own supply. and this is why we hear all these. kudos the green all the time. whereas it, in fact things are turning really a sour for of the western had germany, not only in ukraine, but around the world. while the media in the united states is a preoccupied with january 6th, 2020 or with what is happening in some villages around backwards. ah,

the percent dig nations are getting away from the western currencies. the a deal that to the united states had, with saudi arabia and the otter gulf countries. so when it comes to all, and the, the control of the price is a lot of oil is off, latin america is turning away from the u. s. and that's why probably we hear the is a fairy tales about about the dissolution of russia. so well calling, let me go to you in apple valley. i mean, you, you are in the f b, i hear you give us your sense of the veracity of these leaks here because we haven't really seen them. we've seen some reports on these and it's very different . like with weekly leaks. ok, so you as an expert, could look at documents and figure out if they're real or not, and probably very quickly. now we're just given these pictures. ok. and they, and actually there are contradictory, different pictures out there to is this

a psych off operation here, or is it just the usual incompetence we expect from these people go ahead calling? well, i think the leaks themselves are a real. i got the u. s. government would not have gone to the measures that they dag trying to hunt this guy down and find them. unfortunately though, once they didn't get seen by a lot of people, just gamers in and out belin kat researchers. so it is possible that some of these documents now could have been tampered with, or, you know, forged except for it to change them slightly. that's possible. if anything, leaks now, you worley would have to be skeptical. but i think initially that some of the reports of what they contained were correct. it's also possible that some, some higher level people, maybe not the top level. actually we're okay with some of the leaks. yeah. you know,

they try tech. they try to manage our perception. and so a lot of this is through dis, information. and sometimes actually information can be skilled to allow that disinformation. well, i think, you know, cohen has a very good point. i've thought about that myself, but there's also this growing, i wouldn't even say debate because debates not really allowed. but you know, this seems to be much more of a biden administration agenda, forcing in upon the european union. it's in its nato allies. and then you have the intel community saying something very, very different. and i tend to agree with colleen. i think some people in the intel community are wanted to, to actually show that there is some kind of descent within the intel community as opposed to the political class your thoughts alex? i mean, we've seen this in the past strategically, so this will happen at a certain time for certain reason. this could be all timing on, you know, we, we know the situation on the ground and back votes and beyond. we know the

situation is not exactly what the western media is making it out to be. so why not put a little, you know, shiny star in the corner to look over this way. we have a leak for you to pay attention to instead of what's actually happening on the ground. there's also other reasons, obviously for there to be a distraction. i mean, the situation in western europe in the you itself is not the buster, the economy is suffering because of this war and has a huge part to do with what's going on. and the fact that these sanctions aren't working. so, you know, i've said this before, i've helped write the book on sanctions when i used to work in the former yugoslavia for an agency, you an agency in belgrade. and so our conclusion at that time was that sanctions don't work. and i would stick to that to the state. so the in story is, i think when you have something of this magnitude, it's allowed to slip out. sometimes. second of all, we're looking at a 21 year. ready gamer, how can you get your hands on this kind of information? so there must be something behind. this isn't just a distraction, or is it

a lot more than that? well, you, steven a, i, i have been told by former intel official cia specific, that it's a virtual impossibility. an individual like this could get access to these documents unless he was given them. okay. okay. i don't want to go into this. we could chase our tails on this, and that's what they want us to do here. but i, i wanted to throw that out. when i started out with ben wallace talking about, you know, the imminent collapse of brush. i mean, i don't know what scenarios people have been talking about here. i thought it was about democracy versus a talker. see, it's about a destroying russia. decoupling from china it's, it's all over the place here. stephen, go ahead. the simulations are, are getting wilder and wilder, where at the same time we see that the credibility of the politician is just plummet. they're politicians. there's just a lot of things, especially when it comes to european politicians. for instance, now a cron is talking about

a strategic economy of europe at the same time when he has huge protests in his own country. and when his words are discredited. let's remind ourselves of back in 2018. he said that france needs to detach when he got the security from her, from the united states that made the his brain that, that the strategic partnership with both russia turkey should be done. whereas in the meantime, i'm frank france made a military deal with greece that he's essentially against the 3rd turks, and it is a literally involved in the war against russia by supplying weapons and training to ukraine. so i think that, of course, in this atmosphere, us speculations became, became something you know, we are losing the, a border, let's say, between reality and, and the speculative world world,

and this called upon the western politicians as well. so that is why of course, now it is completely normal to you know, for them to sell us the story that the gamer is capable of finding such kind of documents on his own. m calling. you can just play this shell game just so much because you just have to look out the window and that's what reality is. crime, inflation adida, industrialization. and these wacky woke stuff that everybody i, which i simply can't comprehend. ok, you can only play this diversionary game so much when you know, when the bill comes home, i mean, you know, even the cia is made it very clear. i guess another strategic lake this how much the zalinski regime is skimming off of us aid here. that's an untenable thing when you're water supply in your home town is polluted. go ahead in apple bill,

i'm apple valley. sorry. yeah, that's the tricky part of managing people's opinions and quote unquote, making your own reality is that it does, it works for a while and in fact it's quite easy to do for a while as long as you control the mainstream media. however, it wears thin after a while and truth eventually, there's an old song about the grass grows through the concrete. you know the truth eventually get through to people's heads regardless. and that's why this constant distraction is necessary. it's really frustrating to be a victim of it. i have to say, you know, i want to throw my my something at the t v all the time because it's really frustrating to see this go on and not be able to push the truth out more. * but you know, you have to hope that the people that are managing people's perception with this

information and constant distraction, etc. well, well, eventually there will be more leaks more, more with the more you have to hope that. and you have to hope that the recklessness of the people on the talk in their desperation, does not get worse, where they are, they feel forced to do even more reckless measures. well, alex, a good example is that, is that most of the world doesn't by the nonsense about the destruction of the nord stream pipelines, more people asking questions or oh, and by the way, seymour hersh now is considered misinformation on facebook. i think colleen is absolutely right, people have anything to say, this is getting untenable at 30 seconds. where are we going to break ahead alex this, what we're looking at right now, our virtue signaling has become a priority over telling the truth. so i mean, my background is canadian, i'm from canada, born and raised, if you want the epitome of purchasing a lot,

signaling that will be the country of canada, right now, minister, et cetera. it all comes down to about, oh look, we're helping do it by doing this. we're hoping by doing that for you credit for ukraine for you. great for you. great. be in europe for just one day. you know, number of ukrainian plates. good as be seen just driving around and i'm not talking about regular cars. i'm talking about 100000 euros and now i'm talking about rolls royces with ukrainian lakes, 200-2004 automobiles that were bought and ukraine, driven over here by somebody that's under the age of 50, usually a male. so everything that we're thinking is happening in ukraine, that we're setting some money there to help the people on the ground. it's helping a lot of people, whatnot your credit, ukrainians. a great lead. as part of the program, we're going to go to a short break and have her is our break will continue our discussion. i'm confused . narrative stay with ah ah

ah ah ah, because they already asleep here cause they gotta scroll through a premier math. you're just the greater finland to the euros. the nazi theory of racial superiority, finish style for years of korean ss, occupation, 14 concentration camps, 30 full prisoner of war, labor camps 10 prisons any will give you

a little school level. she's the media finished on a senior needing in the chest, the leading enrollment could elephants in the savannah beetles gonna sit in approximately 25000 people, went through the audio kind of go finish camps according to official figures. his mo, stuck dumbly. my daughter, if that she did, he toyed in lagging medina, chester snyder a stove. so again, kirk of streaming, you're what famine, disease forced labor, torture by the warden. so for mutual was even up on the water that also need you want to keep it, you got that it's 0 blood human off. what does it mean? 9 pushing to think of, but give her what she only do duty good. he doesn't go those thousands of testimonies of crimes and the impunity of criminals. go and have a guy here. you know, wanted to do this because maryan gerard, julia. yes. what a good. i feel if not why me did it. besides, you know, you got to live with the senior just because i you, but there is

a dang yet. that was but it lula ah welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. tremendous. we're discussing confused narratives. ah, yes. go back to belgrade stephen, i know you've already mentioned in the program, but i think it's worth talking about that about the frenchman president talking about strategic autonomy, which i found to be quite mildly amusing because as you've already pointed out, he's kind of talked about these things before, but what makes it kind of comic and even tragic? is it? well, prefer the president of france. it's too late for you even to start thinking about these things. choices have been made for you and you've made your own choices. so

any talk of autonomy is almost a pipe dream at this point. nord stream, twos destroyed, and energy prices skyrocketing. most countries in europe have double digit inflation. those are the issues you're gonna have to be dealing with. you're not to be talking about. will we be strategically autonomy from the united states? that ship is already sailed to the detriment of europe? go ahead. exactly as the late perimeter of cbs one, g. one said, you can make fish soup out of aquarium, but you cannot make an aquarium with fish out of a fish soup. so micron are saying these things after everything that he has personally done and, and he's still trying to pretend to be in a bicycle as somebody who has a dependency watching at the or, you know, process is aware. in fact, i think that by, than has brought back nato from this brain death that,

oh yeah, wrong was talking about and, and in fact, what happened in the process is that france and germany in the 1st became exactly once more drawn, says that they should not be they became vessels of the united states. and i mean, this reminds me of the prison psychology where once a prisoner gives in a little bit, then you know that no and to concessions. and that is exactly what france did. and now mac drawn, woke up after, after a year, being heavily involved in war with french weapons being sent to ukrainian front as we speak. and now he's talking about the strategic autonomy. i honestly don't know what it was, what is happening? well, you know, he said he sees in the same, you know, circle has been wallace. these people are, are delusional. they think they have power. they think they have agency, they don't. okay. and what they spent,

they claim to speak for the people at least adelina, better box said to true, she doesn't care what her voters like. you know at lee she she, you know, she was honest. okay. she was transparent. the rest of them are a pack of liars, only let me go back to you. one of the things, i mean, it's already been kind of mentioned this program, but you know, i can remember what happened in ukraine with forest regime change. they are, they attempted it in syria, they succeeded in iraq and afghanistan. not that the results were all that great, but it, with the um, what is happening now in the west is that the same kind of beliefs are, are in acting regime change at home. they're using exactly the same playbook of disinformation, empowering certain groups, um, disappearing others. we see this with social media all the time. you know, i give kudos the on must, but you know, twitter is not going to change the world. it could influence it, but it won't change it. and i think this is what's creating so much frustration is because the leads are saying what, what problems are out there and they will work on them. but they're not my problems

and they're not yours. go ahead. well, is the regime change playbook has worked a lot and you mentioned, however, there it hasn't worked most recently. for instance, with hong kong it, it didn't work real well. it didn't work real well with venezuela. so there's been, i think, a turn here where that playbook a regime change is becoming harder to enact. and yes, i think it's also true. they are, they're arresting, ah, just anti war people that are, you know, anti war were arrested in charge. i don't know what they can even be charged with for their opinions, but this seems to be again, more an evidence of more desperation on the part of the control. people who want to control the narrative at the top that they then have to resort to measures like charging people in the united states who are anti war by,

by the censorship that they work in collaboration with social media. the seems you, as if you were in charge, you wouldn't want to, to engage in those measures because they actually are counterproductive. and i think all of this, you know, it's just a blow back from the situation that the united states has been waging, you know, perpetual quote unquote perpetual war for so long. that it becomes more and more debt are harder to control the narrative. and they have to resort to these unique unusual measures. well, yes, alex, you know, i've been watching the prime minister of canada. i mean, you know, for an american administration that wants to divide the world into a talker season democracies. i don't know why canada's in the democracy category seems very autocratic to me with the prime minister. you have mr. trudeau autocratic i that you're for me. that's debatable. ready i did judo, i mean, basically what's happening in canada, the problem is that there really is no other choice. well,

there's 3 parties and you're looking at the same thing or all 3 parties. everybody is a part of the world economic forum. everybody's being ruled by the exact same people . one person say they're conservative, the other will say they're liberal. the other will say they're socialists in the india and they're all exactly the same. so i don't what is what he's doing is basically just trying to maintain power. the whole thing with ukraine is, is part and parcel with that we have a huge ukrainian population. i believe it's the 2nd biggest in english, canada after the english speaking people. so that's your voter base, so that's who you're playing to and the rest of the people just fall into line. but like there, i mean, i'm in france now and i speak to canadians every day. i don't think the wall has been all over the populations, eyes and general everybody knows what's going on. everybody knows what's happening and you crate. everybody knows the canadian forces have been there are 2000 since 2014. the last americans of britain, french reigning, supposedly probably sector, and the dog for tally and everybody else. so our eyes are opening up even wider

these days because people want the war to and, and they're looking for information that basically docs that truth, that there should be peace, not war. yeah, well, it's go back to bell. great. i mean, one of the most pathetic things and all of us have been watching this in real time in with this crusade of democracy versus a talk prosy. it's destroying ukraine. i mean, it's, we had a chance last year about this time last year for that conflict to, to come to a very quick and abrupt end. but it was the west that wanted to continue this war. and so lensky went along with it, and he's just as culpable. ok. but you know, they were, that were shown that there is no what, there's only one outcome. it could be the peak of russia destruction of russia. well, that's not, that doesn't do ukraine any good. it is a terrible waste of money into the most one of the most corrupt countries in the world, as alex has already pointed out to us here. but the, this is, the facade they have, do not talk about any other problem. it's about this binary choice. but it's

a craven choice on the lease of the west to pursue this war waste money on this war . and if they don't get what they want, i really worry about what length that they will go. they blew up a pipeline. what else of, are they capable of go ahead, asked us even about in belgrade. yeah, i mean, ukrainians were always being seen as a disposable material. i'm sorry to say that by, by nato i buy washington for in particular. and it's really tragic to watch that because every mail is a hostage in that country because they cannot go out. if they don't have enough money to bribe and then ride that rolls royce that, that are talking about and her at the same time. i think that the only winner is the empire. that is, that is falling. so the united states is losing power globally. but what is where is doing an hour with this ukranian war is that it is completely submitting

europe, especially because most of europe mean entries that are in you and in nato and some other as well. so that used to be neutral. ah, it, through this war and her at the end, i think we will end up with the european continent a being re colonized reoccupied by the united states. and that is why i think the why i find these words of across, so absurd and, and, and funny. and in the same time. so that's it. i think in the process of course the greatest losers are, are ukrainians. and the 2nd grade is losers are and the europeans, especially western europe, especially for france and germany. ah, who's the perception of the, let's say autonomy is completely lost. now. now that, that, i mean, germany was silent, is it, you'll find out about the north stream. and in the meantime, simon, her shirt became a conspiracy theories, according to the mainstream media, the greatest living journalist of his generation, you know, you know,

it's always say, are what happened to him that if they ever say the truth, is that what happened to him? what happened to colleen? i mean, it, we, the term colonization re, colonization has been brought up here. and i agree with what are guessed in belgrade. you know, the, the greatest victims are, of course, ukraine and the, and the europeans. but i would also say the entire western world, because we're being colonized by this neil liberal elite, see they mean these people that have their ideas in common. i've always said you could take the prime minister from from the netherlands and put him into sweden and put the swedish prime minister into austria. you'd never see a difference. okay. because these people all exactly say these people that always talk about diversity are identical and world outlook. go ahead. yeah, i mean, i think you've mentioned already that this saw this woke liberal theology is, is basically a facade, it's a commer for what they're doing and,

and obviously people like to believe, certainly everyone would love to believe in, in human rights and democracy spreading throughout the world, so you're, you're up against this, you know, willingness of people to believe the propaganda and you know, it does wear thin after a while, but it, like i said, it's just extremely frustrating to see this all of europe. and obviously the ukraine is victimized by this fighting and being used as proxies in vassals. absolutely. victimized, obviously, blowing up the nord stream pipeline, hurt our own allies. and you, you think that people would realize that this is something has on cannibal that it's, it's going to hurt even the big new brzezinski realized that entrapping the soviet union in the war in afghanistan was going to help was going to hurt the soviet

union that was the whole point of doing that. so it's hard, it's hard though because the media is so controlled and it is what i mean. the problem is that the agenda, these people have, they don't solve any problems. in fact, i would say they make more problems and, and avoid facing the needs and concerns of everyday people. that's it all gets all the time we have. i want to thank my viewers in apple valley belgrade and, and cause. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. so you next time, remember a ah and i to business with us. good. i did miss stewart with key at the washington state. the process is to dealer miley complete

with what you're supposed to professional lithium to walk. you prep a list of all, but usually i used to live with ah, when i was shown seemed wrong when i was just a few feet out. the same becomes the advocate, an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart,

we choose to look for common ground. ah ah, ukrainian drones target the kremlin and what moscow called an attempted assassination . vladimir putin. russian president was not inside his residence during the drone strike, which was repelled by electronic defenses and federal remains unchanged according to with care of denies responsibility for the attack. the criminal says the same as the right to retaliate anytime with .