the sewer just there. i see the fabric, sanchez, i've been doing news now for 30 years to languages around the world. here in the us, i've interviewed for us. presidents founded a $1000000000.00 business. believe there should be honest, direct, and impactful, and this is direct impact. the so i want to talk about something today that let's just say really hits home because, you know, as it happens, i was one of the 1st persons to believe so much in the power of twitter as a democratizing force. that i actually included it in, in my newscast, i did this,

i just started one day on my laptop. i took it out like this and told people, check it out, reach out to be on twitter. tell me what you think of this newscast as i was doing the news and they talked to me during commercials. look, don't take my word for it. is a newly released book out. the book says, so the book is called uncovered by steve crack. our who says this about me in his book, he says a lot about me. he says rick sanchez, former cnn anchor, told me that what is happening now is really horrible. he makes his comparison to what it was like when i started twitter. and it makes us want a question says crack our, whether whether the news that we're getting is really news today. words being influenced by some higher power. exactly. by the way, the new york times also wrote about my pioneering twitter at the time. and so it m p r i back here, i am using twitter while i was doing the news. when i was back on the cnn,

the toner board, we go and see it goes a little chosen today by our intrepid staff. not me. oh, it's all about all the way to go. alley. for clarifying working people are not a special interest. tired of part, us and hacks. i start with that and i want to see that only the dump tail into the dichotomy of what twitter was compared to what twitter has become. is a corner of the latest revelations that a national controversy known as the twitter files installment of the twitter files has been released this time. dealing has deal detailing, has several government agencies interacted with the platform. and that's how you'd be saying, quote, the file show the f b i acting as door man to a vast program of social media surveillance and censorship and compensation agencies across the federal government from the state department to the pentagon, to the c. i a 300000000 people use twitter world wide and

many considered in the hub for communication, for news, for entertainment. however these days towards taking a bit of a beginning, specifically because of the twitter files. so what are the twitter files that you may have heard about? okay, it is a massive data leak of quitters internal documents revealed by a hacker group that's. busy how big impact these documents stay with me? they give us an inside look at the stuff about twitter that we never knew. how do we algorithms really work their policies, procedures, their biases, leg included, more than $1705.00. and it really is a, it's like a peak right into our twitter operates behind the scenes. for example,

what do they do with your data? when you get on twitter, what do they do with you? well, one of the things they say in this report is that twitter monitors direct messages and then shares their users location you. if you're in there putting in a direct message with 3rd party advertisers so much for your privacy, right? that's how they make money. at the expense of your privacy, that's what a file also reveals that twitter promoted users that had a lot of followers even if what they had to say was neither relevant nor engaging. said the matter, as long as you get a lot of followers you, they're going to put you up. somebody who's a genius who has something to say, that's important. they're not. so what is it? it's more of a popularity contest, right? that's part of what the twitter files is apparently revealing. what else? well twitter or try to tackle hate speech. good. but then comes the question of what is hate? who's the hater? who gets to the side?

did they share how they came up with that with us? these like documents have raised concerns about twitters commitment to free speech data protection, and it's algorithmic biases. but maybe the real question is the one that we have to ask ourselves, why would we think this is almost primordial right? why? why do we think that a publicly traded company that is there only to make money? would really give a quote about fairness or balance or even truth for that matter. that's kind of not what they're there to do. by the way, the twitter files are not a one shot deal. it's a series of reports that are released by journal. this map tie a be a cover or a series of events that twitter chose to moderate among the stories the twitter act at least suppressed or controlled the 100 by the laptop ground diversity. for example, the donald trump cancellation from twitter,

the january 6th storming of the capitol is also an installment the twitter files that deals with how some users are shadow band. and yet another on how the us military st. com to use as twitter, to run online, influence campaigns in other countries. and joining us now to talk about this is demari thomas. he's a video host. his show is called fault lines. i've been on a couple of times as a matter of fact. and. busy actually being here. i'm glad to be here. this is important. it is important. yeah. awesome. and by the way, just i want to go on the record with you as saying that i really, really like leaks. yeah. you know, i don't understand how we're living in a time when the people who criticize leaks the most. our journalists, super weird. we kind of where we should live for leaks was in general is right. i mean, the for my,

how do you know what your government is knowing what various elements of society is doing without knowing what's going on behind the scenes? this is the julia massage thing. right? exactly. i keep seeing the story is where the amazon b c's of the world and the new york times of the world and the see and ends of the world, the fox news of the world. all of them think the, the corporate media are angry when they see a report that gives citizens new information. they didn't know about their government. right. and they take the side of the government. it's simple, weird. you would think that media would be more inclined to, you know, we want this information one into what goes on behind the scenes. we want to know how to sausages basically made. and it was very weird. i mean, even with this on stuff, they covered the stuff and then somewhere along the way it was like this guys for leasing information about the state secrets and all of that stuff. how do you know which a government is the one who can see behind a st? exactly. so let's get to the twitter files. i know we, we come, came minute through the back door over there today. but, but if it's another case of somebody doing breakthrough reporting, yes,

where we have an opportunity to see as you say, how the sausage is really made, right. what twitter really does that we didn't know about. yes. and what we've learned is that they have, if, if nothing else a very, what was the relationship with our government and maybe even part of our internal community? that is to put it mildly. i mean, a lot of people have suspicions about twitter or social media and everything is going to behind the scenes, especially with the reaction with us. but i mean, if you notice everybody was an uproar, is like, well wait a minute, this is just the social media company. why all these people are freaking out. and, you know, with the release of the, to developmental ab schellenberg, or i'm barry wice. all it makes it very clear that yeah, they were freaking out because that was the incestuous relationship i think was where do you between the 2. that basically you ended up with the situation where these guys were having meetings with intel on information to either disclose information to keep people shuttle ban content. that by the way, was it bad contact, meaning the stuff was approved, but just to just select the fact that the stuff would be exposed. so there are some

of the parts to this, right? let's, let's try and get through this before we get on the subject of the push back that the media and the government seems to be laying on people like matt, tie a be because one a hell of a good journalist. and it doesn't deserve to be talked about the way they're talking about it, but we'll get to that. uh, the 1st part i guess is a big tech and of itself. we've always thought that big tech twitter i was one of the pioneers of usage of twitter. i believe in twitter. i thought twitter was going to help us democratize our society. instead. it's now being partial about my corporations by government. and i think what the story showed is that the government has access to twitter and can shop things down where the rest of us can't right. now they will probably argue what we just suggested. but, you know, if the government is telling you, hey, we don't particularly like this information or this information, that's what this information is going on by the russians. well, of course is putting a pressure on the people to do one thing or the other. it's kind of like mainstream

either like radio or tv or any other medium you get, you need to control how information is being processed of the public itself, waiting, waiting to dictate, well, even if we can't necessarily control the entirely we needed the very least crowd in certain areas to prevent it from going to places, we don't necessarily want people to find out. so somebody in the government can shut down information before it gets to me or even after it's out there. um, as they've done. yeah. then it's not free flow of information by definition, by definition, right? i mean, look at this point. so now i understand, by the way, if it's something that is, you know, of, you know, state secret, it's, uh, you know, the code to the nuclear ball game and that something like that, i would say, okay, you know, national security and stuff, real national security. it's definitely not information about we found out that our government is planning to, to bottom somebody. no, no, i want to know. yeah, i want to know if you gonna buy mexico or singapore or whoever the hell you gotta buy. well, there's also classification deal with it, things they would call national security that isn't necessarily national security that's. that's why i think we need to realize in this country that our social media

is become my comments. like normally somebody will go up to dfcs, last streaming on a podium with some to that effect way beyond that point, we are at the point where if you mean something to say whether it's youtube, facebook, so any of the social media is the way that people accommodate information for one and explain it in another case. and so the same way that you may have influence on television, what influence on radio and this point you need to have this kind of influence. and so for media itself, because that's what people are getting the main part of this away from a lot of like a lot of the story that i read that was revealed by these folks who hacked the information uh from twitter and, and i know the word hack may some might argue with sensitive apparently apparently mister musk, right. cooperated with it eventually and said look here's the information i want you to have you hit them up and you just okay. yeah, exactly. yeah. yeah. so, so that's still good journalism. it's not like somebody handed them something. um, i guess one of the big arguments was the cold id. uh, the way they treated the convent story. right. uh, what, what is your take on?

so, one of the self, right? a variety institute or some to that effect, but basically what they ended up with was the government was trying to keep information on certain of national cove is going to particular up there was a huge amount of push back on vaccines mass, all of that stuff. and so people were going after or let's say certain organizations were go out the door and say, hey, we don't like this particular formation. we don't like that information didn't matter whether it was true, but it isn't. didn't been like less like the direction that the information you know, was one of those like for the sake of mankind, the safety of the world. exactly. you can't report that because it's going to make people then think, yeah, that they shouldn't be vaccinated and etc, etc. but even it was pro, so they would say here, real vaccine effects on the side effects. now, of course, even like as a medical professionals that have met the vaccine, they have certain effects, but overall it was better, etc. well, in their case, it was like a, we should have it in the schools that we don't. we don't want that information out because people are going to use this information in order to take it in a particular right to go. it gets um, some of the,

let's say measures that the government was using to try to deal with cobra. i think one of the things, and by the way, i think the whole coven thing just got away from us as a society. and it got to the point where cove it became a screaming match rather than a conversation. and what a shame because once it gets to that point, no one's going to listen and everyone's going to be accusing the other side and the, and that's actually. so the problem of the problems i see with the twitter files, the quoted one is the least that makes me go, oh yeah, they were because that thing had no chance of work. well, it gets credibility. that's kind of the problem, right? if she comes out and says, yeah, we shouldn't mess, going to be getting a bit later on. okay. yeah, we should use that. well, he was saying that because he didn't necessarily want to deal with people, go in and buying mask up in the medical professionals that have them however it gets credibility or if it comes out initially. yeah, this is, there is no way this is a lovely and then later on you find out, okay, that was in clarity about one way the other about which one it was. look,

cockburn jamal cohen was politicized too soon and too much. and i think if we had as a society at the beginning said, we've got a problem, let's get together and try and fix it, press, but we didn't try and fix it. we tried to fix it to meet our and whether we were a democrat or republican. and i think once that the pony left the bar and it was gone and you weren't going to get them back. i'll tell you what does bother me though you disagree. but it did become politicized. i mean, if you think of what trump was in office couple still trying to do the vaccine democrats on around. it was like, well, i don't know, i don't know, i trust it. but of course someone go by and get said you want, everybody's all right, so yeah, well, some level of was politicized. actually my thing is we have that number of people die. that fast was like, there's a fire. what do we do with the fire? i want you not to move jamal, you got that phrase, because when we come back, the story is taken on a live of its own value. since we've been reporting on twitter, in fact, the people who wrote the twitter files have come under attack message board. so

much so that there are now people in the media going after people and like mat tie e b. so mr. ty ebby while we're on, the air has been texting me. oh, and i'm going to share when we come back, what matt is saying. so i want you to react to match comments, stay there, we're going to come back by the way i have broadcast. we're i as a journalist, as a latino, as an entrepreneur, i tell my story. i share with you what i've learned my successes, my screw ups, a lot of those. it's called the research because part cats, i invite you to check it out and i will see you there when we come back more on twitter. as i mentioned, people like matt, tell you the are being assailed. right. sale the good word choice. good. we're assailed and we're, we're, we're going to visit that with comments from ty he'd be who just texted the moments it got stay right there. the,

the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the so welcome back. i'm rick sanchez. it seems to me that more more of what we read, what we are even allowed to have access to is controlled, probably more than it ever has been. right. and here's what i mean. you say it's not just for twitter. when you go to a story, the number of sources that you're allowed to read,

to get insight or context is limited to a collection of filter new sites. for example, you will get the cable carriers, you'll get a whatever see, and i don't want you to hear from the us. but the me that works from top newspapers . and maybe maybe i'll get a sprinkling of some independent news or some. busy are and papers or outlets like the guardian and maybe the bbc, which is really not that much different from cnn. so if you really want a different perspective, one that is not filtered or controlled by bigger entities. good luck. good luck. so that means that controlled information flow is not just a twitter problem and it's kind of a everywhere problem. so we're back with jamal thomas and he's talking uh twitter twitter files to be exact. can i share something with you? absolutely. look what i just got a little while ago. this is uh uh, you know,

tv uh knows that we've been talking about this. he and i started up a conversation and he's getting, like i said earlier, really, i mean attacked a sale this. yeah. on the m s nbc, the media. busy and, and so here's what he just wrote to me today. so why don't we tell the difference politics? he was in colorado. right? yeah. they say all of a sudden they say, i'm a republican and i'm not, i'm a political independent. i have a long history of criticizing both party. it's my belief among other things, based on what i've seen in the twitter files. this is matt thought you'd be texting me this morning. he says, of the democrats are far more dangerous and more organized on this speech. issue than republicans, but that doesn't make me a republican. you'll note that i'm not being allowed to make that case on the air. he's right. with minutes on you, some of the it'd be with us on that's on attack. basically came into the interview, going after him to even sit on a subset. this is going to be like root canal. he was wrong. but when listen to what you just said,

here's one of the best. i think one of the finest reporters that we have in the united states, i might tell you, be nominal a phenomenal journal. yes, real journalist detail do. and they're attacking it is the weirdest thing in the world. he gets information to present some information. this is what your government is doing on. so what? so for me to make you have intelligence services working with social media behind the scenes in a way that you don't know anything about and i'm exposing, isn't it like how, how you expose this? what's that you're exposed to her taking sides of the government? been so that's what sort of government pretty much a bad thing is you shouldn't expose this particular information with things ridiculous to make which goes back to how we started the interview. what i said, i love leaks. yeah. and i can't believe a journalist or angry when people leak information that there's that's what you were supposed to go. apparently they don't look it treatment broken. people's brains, honest by right. it's the most bizarre thing else. i seymour hersh was with me here where you're sitting right now recently and he said the same thing. yeah. well, you know, so the may is just, they based on christ. it's almost as if they looked at it is we need to protect

bite in order to defend against something else or trump. it was very bizarre. here's the other thing. and again, matt thought you'd be responding to me this morning. he says, the idea that i work for musk isn't created, infuriating to afford to pronounce that. it's because english is my 2nd language. so yeah, i didn't hear his exact quote, but i clearly don't work for me. must he rides? rick, as recent as events prove and which hassan in his it, if he had any on or in any ethics, would be compelled to admit publicly now, i just very publicly stood up to a long on this exact question. so again, i could go on, but uh, this is matt, ty, it'd be responding to the accusation that he's just, uh, you know, of carrying water for view on mark's. and this is nonsense. i mean, the guy was, let me tell you, it was more so on the left. i mean, what do you this? i probably saw a part of and that's i left the i think any journal is worth it. solve has just as much left as he does, right?

because we're supposed to go at it on truth. it's not like i'm not here to represent the republican party, the democratic party, right? called journalism. i guess this point is i am just giving it to you straight. when does the thing when i'm taking sides on? yeah. so you may have an issue with the censorship thing and i think he's right. the democrats, a more that, i mean, that's like they will come out with a ministry of truth. and then they were shocked, but the public flip out about the fact that you're having the ministry of truth. and what was the point of the point was we're going to have this secondary body in order to get information to be. so for media networks, it gives them some level of coverage and say, well, that body, the ministry of truth said that this was untrue. so we're going to print it printed by way, meaning the stuff that they were doing behind the scenes, they were trying to bring it to the light of day using this edifice. but these guys were going to go along with, it's appalling. and the fact that he's revealing it, the south side is sancha. he actually went a step further. i don't know if you've heard, but just recently uh, he left twitter. yeah. so if, if he really is uh, you know, uh uh, what's his name,

the most best buy boy. yeah. then why in the hell, what do you see? you wouldn't think he would be doing promos for twitter. oh, not leaving twitter. he has just resigned from twitter and he says in his announcement that i've just read moments ago that he met tie e b is now going to dedicate all of his time to some stuff, right. which is coming up with its own twitter like platform, right, where people can have real conversations and not feel like they're controlled by the government at least for now, for i want to stop when it was going to be that way. it could have been that way. i mean, all of the social media companies could have been that way. i mean, i think that's the problem for the government is a certain information that inhibits their ability to do whatever they're doing from a purely ideological standpoint. and whether that's mainstream media, meaning just traditional media, whether that's right it, whatever that is, they need a way to corral information in a way that doesn't damage their particular point of view. so crowding twitter or getting influence any social media companies as a way to do it, especially from a foreign policy stand. what do you think?

you know, i'm kind of solutions guy. yeah. i would love to see um, you know, some sober minds come together on the left, on the right in the government, outside of the government, and come up with a way to make me trust a twitter a gap, right? maybe even, you know, the new york times we can. yeah. maybe even i'm a suddenly see or fox or see. and then again, yeah. it has that shifted sailed. i think from the american public when you look at that, how the public deals media. yes. i mean, maybe it's not impossible. i mean it's just credibility. everything. spend what for 5 years screaming that the pool or a truck over the finish line, you will have problems with that. unfortunately of them will investigate or scream it about what does the manufacturing, all right, you're going to problems with that meeting, one story after the next. next they just credit else and it seems always this credit in a certain direction for government. those are a bizarre at both sides. yeah. both. i mean, you know what you're going to get if you turn on fox news, your know exactly what you're going to get and you know, what you're gonna get ahead of that in mind is the devil. and the bama is the devil

. right? right. and you know, and they may be, who knows, you know, but then when you're drawing them as soon as you find that, no, no, no, no, no, no mccardle is the downright and trump is the devil. and the fact of the matter is it's of heightened um you know, uh exaggerated conversation. yeah. that doesn't tell you new information. it just wants you to stay there. yeah. and they want to tell you what you already know about it. like doesn't, didn't work at all. i mean, usually it's very black and white. so we'd like joe biden is the greatest president in my lifetime. is really, really, you know, is it under cutting? um we, i live in a way, or donald trump is completely innocent of that's the way it's, let me, let me interrupt you for a minute before we run out of time and talk about something where i think we, you know, you said a little while ago the ship of sail. yeah. here's where i think the ship has really sailed and may not be retrievable. and uh, the idea that they can use these must mathematic algorithms, right?

to know exactly what they need to say to me and not say to me. so it's, it's, it's literally using technology and science to program my brain. right. and that is what is going on in our world today. that is, that scares the hell out of that is terrifying. you're basically taking what was a propaganda vague, a turn to get into almost like a sites in a weird way and using social media event. twitter does yeah, of course sorted by the way twitter falls found out that it's even worse than what we thought. well yeah, that they sell it. of course, i mean look at facebook cambridge analytical in the way the facebook was operating, or even the tests the paperwork was running to see whether or not they can influence the move in the behaviors of people on that. so for media platforms don't use it when it gets to the point when the algorithms control it. that means the algorithms know exactly what you like. they know exactly what to don't like stuff, even though the nuances, the little some data points. he says i'm, we're going to attack that every single day. yeah. once we get to that point, the only thing that we can do to protect ourselves from twitter is to shut it down . but also i was a software engineer for years like a decade. and yeah,

there's all sorts of information that we can glean from it and make models associated with how, let's say that engage a particular person who wants to particular thing, how to find out how much income this particular person had bought me to have you come up with all sorts of database statistics, what they all time, right, right. what they don't to upon the buy because you have all of the information also for me to the point, you know, the points of you know, their opinions even what, so what tomorrow, what chance do we have against that? which asked as my mother, my, my, my sister, my brother, a guy, my brother's a copy. what's his ass off all day long? that's all he does. right? that he finally gets on to be with his kids doesn't have time to do a 1000000 checks on this stuff. he's going to believe whatever they put on there because their, their, their, their preaching is story and what they think is historical. and they're probably right. they can also people have the ability to tune in some very narrow flights of what they want to hear. so if i want to listen to the options, i can listen fox and they can tell me how great i am all day. same thing with them as soon as yeah, i don't see. i wish i did. i don't see a solution, but i do, you know what i do see a great guess. thanks. ok. thanks man. after really, really enjoy the conversation and i think it's an important conversation that we

need to have. oh, that's the real one. yeah. yeah. okay. well listen, uh, before we go, i want to remind you of something. our mission, you know, simple really. um i wanna do silo the world with the show. we've got to stop living in these little boxes, right? to stop living boxes, truces everywhere. how much are you looking for? you're getting right here. help to provide some direct impact the

the think that would inform you to with them for the gift, but the other side of celia was because it did just wouldn't care to be able to go through the new year. oh for g like teach. so i know for me teaching people how is that shift to store and you have to get a some good to left. i look forward to with that the pressure is more, it's a washing machine and then you move, we must move. i'm oh no, i'm really starting from 1st month to month putting them on the move. let me look into that. i will just, i get i as well as to the lowest the did. so i'm going to study to be progressing right. and you see the shortest finish. this is just so just for good news. okay, i'm a fraction of 20th. i'm going to do friday. i'm gonna tell you origin our free for, for over the,

for sure. interested in the 10. most of the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law. show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously, is to create a trust rather than to the various jobs with artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme and the robot must protect this phone existence with alexis, the laws which do