it was the deadliest no one and the youngest son weld has had such a profound effect with our understanding of the nature of nation propaganda model of journalism. then one of the most cited living scholars in the world, no. m. chomsky in the past 24 hours is cool. so you can, you, as far as you, through these wiki likes found julian assange tortured according to the un by the birth issued in london, the father of, of the linguist dixon, co author of manufacturing consensus, joins me now from tucson, arizona. thank you so much for visit chomsky for coming back on going underground draft or a quite a quite a long time and they won't even allow julia to. so i'm just being on the show. be able to watch our interviews with them on rumble to the funeral of his friend, vivian, westwood, the famous fashion designer. why given reports of his deteriorating health? are they so intense the british and the americans on keeping him incarcerated? julia's message committed a grave crime. he exposed crimes of state uh which

state power wants to be suppressed, that cannot be tolerated to the attack on the power and dignity of the state authorities. so as you've been treated very poorly for years, she was actually locked into what's called an embassy, but it's actually a small apartment not allowed to do a rounded by police. but then he was put in a the prison designated for serious offenders that are treated again extremely harsh treatment. the un reports are unter pleasurably in my view describes it is a torture rubber door and torture on the tonight after

a designation. he's being sure elated states a lindsey espionage act. so that's a goes back to 1917 quarter of the harshest repression in american history, the wilson administration, the bitter attacks on anyone who questioned the nobility of the participation in the 1st world war a major tax on labor edition shown intellectual opinion. it is part of the repression that had an enormous impact on the american society, listed to prison. legacy is true. it's been used for essentially the purpose for over and over the most extreme was actually

a rock obama. the, the current case is saying, just being charged under the espionage, it could not be on the books and in a democratic society. but to remain prime is, is exposure of materials that the state once suppressed. you've been attacked uh most of your life by a so called made stream media, but do you think it's getting worse now? you might have to remind some people about what you and at the home and setting manufacturing consent to differentiate propaganda from, say, style in the soviet times. because the actually is a viral video of a bbc reporter andrew moore. i think his name is and he says, do you, what are you talking about? no one tells me what to say, and you will, you might remember what you said to have back. do you have to change the propaganda

model with julian assigned in jail with the banning of the literature, music, sports press in the, in the native nation landscape. whereas before, it was done in a slightly more well, as you describe the most structured and more complex way i think actually in many ways is better now than it was before. one reason is that many journalists have simply live through the liberator. in effect of the activism of the 19 sixty's, which shattered many barriers. this after math, which continues, this is part of their formation, tends to make them more free and open. you look back to the say, 196, these are the ideas, questioning authority, barely a roach,

a take the vietnam or the worst crime since the 2nd world war 2 years to try to organize any opposition to it. i happen to live in boston, which is the most liberal city in the country. we couldn't have totally demonstrations against the war because they would be violently broken up. the tried to have meetings in churches of churches where it was years before you could finally get some kind of protest against this or in this atrocity which by the time protest, right, really develop to almost the through the 3 countries. but to me that there's been a change shown in the war currently raging in europe. of the, you know, you look at bernie sanders advise them at the us diplomatic summit settlement would

mean ukraine surrender every single person in the bite. and the d. n. c, the democrats voted to supply weapons to ukraine. the senate approved the resolution to support finan in sweden, in nato. and he rammed pool, and joining holly to who would you be sending just voted against a you have a the entire i mean, all 6 of the circled school are the democrats all intent and they're all no demonstrations to stop the, the prophets of raphael in general dynamics boeing, lockheed martin, and also have gum. another difference between for so we should discuss the suppose isn't there, just to cation, but what's different today from the 19, say 50 years ago is there is debate and discussion. so it's a little mainly the other side of state power and official

doctrine that it exist. you go back to the 19th sixty's, i barely even exist. there was no open in the case of the vietnam or for example, that was essentially no position to or, and for a long time. finally broke. uh, and we should be, we should recognize that the civilizing effect of the active isn't most of the young people in those years instance has had an impact. there is no ranges to be discussion of. people like may of course, can't get into the mainstream media, but we never could. that was impossible. and though at least there's alternative ways for voices as well. actually, or, well, actually you your name as being mentioned in mainstream media and it's being

defamed. and i don't know whether you want to take legal action. you're a trenchant critic of a lot of them have put in. and yet, if i look on the internet, the big publications calling you a put in an apologist when you've spent every week since february, the 24th. and we moved to as the russian see it protected. people have done best use events criticizing for that. do we have food? why did they call you a pollution of ologist? because a, if you deviate from official doctrine, you're condemned. is a apologist for the n m. a is the state you talked in the 1960 is about a trying to bring loser in this war and vietnam doing in your cold and apologize for her g mail. okay, that's just standard technique, avila vacation, you know,

order as or, or humans to throw motor people that's normally expected. but to today, if you look at the main stream establishment, gerald foreign affairs, the major journal, you actually find the range of critical commentary. actually not all the different from things i say will to go back years. you didn't have that just marching in a period furshly no addition. but of course in say, britain, they banned c g t and the chinese channel from broad costing r t. a famously. why is it that you think russia thinks it's fine? i think it's like a level of this week giving a press conference allowing west and reporters accreditation. whereas in the united states,

they obviously don't ban media in the us because of the 1st amendment setting in your up. obviously there's mass binding of journalists and journalism. what's behind that? and that truly does depart from what from manufacturing consent, where they didn't want a bad and even they just knew that the low selling outlets would fail to engage the populace in, in decisions. opinion is the 1st of all that's going to look through the say is take a more recent event, the erotic, or not that far back. anyone who dares to say that the record was the major crime of the century, which it certainly was, is bitterly denounced and condemned. if you look at the discussion in the main stream, it will be hard put to fund anyone who disagrees,

couldn't reach the main street and who will say the elementary truth in this and disputable truth. the theoretical was an example of what the nuremberg tribunal called the supreme international crime, a crime, a direction which differs from other work orange only in the it includes all of the evil that follows. so find somebody who says, prison bush rumsfeld, the training, we're guilty of the crimes for which people were, i don't know. remember. instead what you have is celebration of george bush. the great criminal who is a to do rec, enough scanners to destroy the celebration of him as a lovely person to school,

the goofy graham placement of his grandchildren paints pictures just a delightful person. well, that's new radical, it's for, it's quite striking that anyone who dares to compare your rank or was the russian ization of ukraine is viciously denounced. harvard university even had a debate in which the debate was whether the rack or can be considered a humanitarian intervention. a debate, suppose that moscow university had a debate, whether the russian invasion can be called a humanitarian intervention. can you imagine the reaction in the west, the, what's the reaction in the west stood up and it, or the close look at the open as an american society. they're even willing to

question whether this military intervention was a humanitarian intervention. well, that's manufacturer of consent. let me give in explicit example. recently, there were couple articles in the mainstream press saying there's no, some skepticism arising about whether rusher was really responsible for the sabotage of the north stream. pray play, pledge promises drunk scouts, stop you. the more from one of the world's greatest and most sites in public intellectuals after this break. the

. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy from foundation. let it be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. the only personally, i'm going to resist, i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very create ticket of time. time to sit down and talk the i welcome back to going on the ground. i'm still here with professor know i'm trying to escape american dissidents and co author of the pioneering book, manufacturing consent,

the political economy of the mass media. maybe they call you a page and a biologist because you expressed doubts about a terror attack. that was one of the worst is if climates and destroying gera tax given the amount of fossil fuels released. that's alone. this is what the sabotage means for energy resources for germany. you think that the mainstream media that said this must be the russians, could have got it wrong. it means the least likely the to the per a for state responsible for the services is rosure. it's, it's a pipeline of the subdivision destroyed is largely own thing cuz we're all russian company. what possible purpose with rush it as i said in destroying. it's and sabotaging its own major capital investment,

which it counts on for supplying your it for us at one of the supporters stop the supply of grass goods. all it could do is turn off of sales, didn't have to destroy its main. it's made the investment. so the least likely state was it can be a charge is russian. so of course, the western media immediately rushed on race to say, will russians responsible? know they're raising some skepticism. that's called manufacturer of consent said to framework and debate within it. but it's the framework version saying, who's the likely culprit in the north stream service, those who had the motive and the capability? well, just one state, united states obviously had the motive, in fact, was quite frank and open about saying that those were put not only opposing the

pipeline but saying that they'll be destroyed. the motive was not the secret, was perfectly public, obviously had the capability to interest of large naval movers in the region of right before the show that the difference, a major shift position equipment. so the capability in the mode is clearly nobody else said anything like that. the russians in the least likely cobra . so manufacturing consensus, let's have a lively debate, tissue open and free. we are. but within the framework that excludes the assumption. but the possibility that united states might have been involved with literally discuss debate, whether it's a least likely cobra version 12. well, that's effective propaganda. your own just a boy that's refutable. what do you do is set up the framework of discussion,

which excludes totally excludes the of this most likely answer. the debate or other things. during the case of the rec, you have a debate at harvard over whether they were asking the agent was a humanitarian invasion. you don't have a debate over whether it was the a crime to kind of crime for which not so your current levels right now. remember, you don't want to open the question for a discussion to discuss something ridiculous, wasn't humanitarian intervention. when you carry out a shock and awe attack against the rug, smash up the country, kill hundreds of thousands of people, of all kinds of torture and other trusts in each. if i have just one of the worst crimes in the iraq war was the battle lose you. especially the 2nd battle is the

lose you devastating destructive immersion tag. but as a marine, you should be gun was taking over the general hospital war crime in itself. and destroying much of the city doing no, you know, show the people because we don't investigate or on crimes. how is that? remember the united states? well, i'll tell you, the us navy is no commissioning a new there. so in honor of the marine shoot for in fluid you scrolled illusion, that's the way we deal with. one of the worst crimes doesn't get reported. of course, i should say the bible administration officially denies involvement in the terror attacks on the north stream, as does the british administration of allegations the royal navy was involved in it . and i mentioned that you were a critic of the page. and given that angela,

michael says that the mintz process was actually a delaying tactic to ukraine. what would you have done differently? knowing that the politically within russia, vladimir putin was under pressure, given the thousands of people of the done bass being killed with nato, a weapons in, in eastern new grain. given that the means process was when drawn for a number of years, it was adopted by the security council. what do you suppose to do after being told repeatedly that the, the americans was going to go into your grand ukraine, wasn't going to join nato and actually it was, and they obviously we have the, the details of the co you, if you had one further negotiations you would have called for intermediaries with the french. that's not quite the story on the american

will now says that it was a delay for the original part of the evidence in the read or to support the claim or nothing. this is the time german and french took it very seriously, were pressing for a modem of cream, actually up and to couple of days before the invasion had alone interchange with couldn't you couldn't read the transcript published in the french, chris offering various ways to reinstitute something likely minsk agreement and prevent the invasion of purging rejected it at the end. the last conversation 4 days before the invasion, he simply rejected the discussions with contempt. to, sorry, i have to go ice skating or something like that. well, there were opportunities,

there was plenty, and for a vacation, you're quite right. lots of publication, publication doesn't justify aggression. aggression is a major crime. here. if you provoke me to attack you and then i attack you. i'm guilty even if i wish for that. and for the people to defend the persians decision as a, a mock of a new world order to avenge iraq. just one of the was in reason is that your government as being involved in, as the global south come together, new currency is being talked about, new ways of talking about energy. perhaps even helping the climate best to have been any comp, somebody's under the aegis of the united states. you don't buy that. you can believe in a global south with china or india lula, your friend, and i'm brazilian rusher altogether. and the depth depth of your up in effect as

well. it's $80.00 major shift in the world or in the invasion of ukraine is the reaction to it is accelerated. this uh, one effect of the invasion of ukraine was the, gives the united states extraordinary gift. putting gas in the united states in the gifted greatly real issues. it drove europe into the pocket of the united states. there's been a debate. so through the cold war, back to the 19 ford age as to whether you were should move in an independent direction, be what was sometimes called the 3rd 3rd force in international affairs was

pressed most vigorously by charles to go. deliberate or supposed to take gestures by the com and others united states and stood and demanded would scroll the letters, the steward based on nato, which the united states rose, of course in which europe would be subordinate to the united states. this became a major issue with the collapse of the soviet union. is a garbage of proposed to common european home from lisbon, the state of the military alliances. the victors defeated common efforts to move forward towards more or less social democratic erasure. united states was strongly opposed, insisted on the atlantic station to load or put in just as inside

of the united states. its highest wish for europe at least temporarily, is within, has abandoned search for independence. finish joining, the subordinating itself to the united states to it's the same to which some would say they were already base is a gram stain in britain. yeah. that craft gary over the united states for so so long. we're running a little bit $200.00 time professor chomsky i want to get to something really disturbing. and what you've been writing recently. i thought you said and coming from this pioneer of generative, gramma, i'm saying that cyclic loose be connected. you said that humanity kind of have a dedication to self destruction. what i mean, given the megan mock level people now claim says she, she reads your work. and i know you send a message to through the va waves,

as it was saying that you would please send it to prince harry's wife. read your what. what do you mean by a pathological, perhaps dedication to self destruction given? we are talking obviously about them at things that involve i'm a gathering and i know the bulletin. if it's all mac scientists will be resetting the the clock next tuesday about how close, how long we have to live. this is a be said the doomsday clock in 1947, shortly after the bombing, the hands are set a certain distance from midnight. midnight binge termination, mostly human species for sitting was 7 minutes to midnight. it's also later over the years during the trump administration, they abandon minutes move to seconds. so center, 100 seconds to midnight, january 24th, it will be said again,

i presume the 2nd it will be said closer to midnight. certainly should be the main concerns or increasing threat of nuclear war. the very severe and growing threats of the destruction of the climate which is rapidly increasing. states are not doing what they know they must do to solve the score issues. the 3rd is the deterioration of the arena of rational, serious debate and delivery issue with the collapse of democratic forces around the world. sounds at 1st is that doesn't belong with the 1st 2, but it does. because that's the only hope for dealing with the 1st. another long distant future present on chomsky. thank you and that's it for the show.

we'll be back next week with another brand new episode, but until then you can still keep in touch with all social media or if it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always add to our channel going. undergoing tv on romo dot com to watch new and old episodes going underground. so you guys have the most affordable cuz it also, we're getting in business. and usually in the dining, those shows and you know, maybe comes green. we'll just go through this discussion of curriculum for those who are looking for to angelo stuff, such as russel, dumas, manager of the different student info, which of course and yet usually throw in the probably just

a moment. that was curious if it was the or that was sent to us yesterday as if it was the top 3 yours man. i'm looking at the study scripts on the verge of placed for me to on, on, on thursday, which originally it was, it just posted sustainable loan because of this new way to close or do school culture. is there any don't know which these regarding know for the don't or that you just to do given the other than that we're going to use best opinion pronounced has come up with the the multiple strikes are reported in cities across the ukraine, overnights including the so yes,

post on the program, the western side of the city that into creating an opportunity by the way, the minute to base on the west side of the city. are you planning to retrieve it from here, under attack, involved in a private village accompanist as it's advanced in our thomas group, documents we just a little over 2 squared columbus of the city left to take us a report from the front lines. boston lithium reserves discovered in india a projected to lower the countries dependence on foreign impulse reaching up to 80 percent of the country to buttons us according to the countries geological survey and.