military hardware, while some people just sweep nazi germany right onto the rug on victory day. all these re writers of history would themselves be pretty scary if only they could drop the clown acts long enough to be taken seriously. a rachel marston when we are cross talking again in moments catch, peter, i'm guess, discussing why the 3 days more than just the national holiday for russians and like a tree other pride. and one of these been recently seen as an extreme dispute in the west. this the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to the cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter live out. on may, 9th, all of russia commemorates victory over fascism in europe and 1945 memories of heroism and unspeakable suffering. have been passed down from generation to generation. the west has attempted to rewrite this history. russians will never accept their sacrifices were in vain.

the cross talking victory over fascism. i'm joined by my guess. erin, good in philadelphia is a political scientist, a story, and an author of american exception, empire and the deep states in providence. we have vladimir goldstein. steve is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and here in moscow we have sonya event. then ended, she is an independent journalist. alright. crossroads. that affects. that means you can tell me anytime you want. and i always appreciate liability sock with to speak with you because you and i have talked about this before over the years about revisionism. so i want to ask you a personal question. your, you were born in the soviet union, you were brought up in the soviet union. and you clearly remember of celebrating commemorating victory day on, on may 9th it to you. what is your memory, tell you what was it? was there ever a disparaging comment about the, the, the western allies and their participation in the war?

because i have never heard that in the quarter century. i've lived here with this. the, the russian federation has always acknowledge the role the western allies play. obviously, they focus more on their contribution. but the west doesn't want to a, it acknowledge the suffering, but the soviet union experience during that group. her risk complex. vladimir. yeah, you know, growing up in the rise, of course it was a holiday, very big holiday. they all, you know, it was very, you know, may was face to face def time for us, or may was, you know, day off, you know, age and i, in the night of may well, great days. so it probably was celebration every one of us celebrate here. is why it was one of those, probably these are you remember i have friends for what you said and then like it is, you know, the, the, the assist them and yet, you know, you right would forget to call them on the 9th of may and to congratulate them. they wouldn't be offended because they, you know, they, they went a little more,

they knew what it was and they remember that it was like a very important, so i saw them. how does it, you know, many cultures may need, you know, through the regions, cavities, cavities over the membrane. and that's what sort of an acid did. and of course, it's really kind of a just strategy nikki, for each not to be either good or not to say offensive to see what was going on. and the rest that has been going on for a while, you know, just something to kind of, to present the russians as incompetent. you know, a bunch of people who didn't know what they were doing, one live by, by jumping under the guns and died in their office. and somehow kind of just to do all of that to diminish it. of course, people who, when some of the war french americans are jo mazda, they remember, they know, but it was my concern is different to brain was the younger generation. i remember i had a friend, according to a historian who was in germany, and he wasn't just celebrated as something that was like people say the bother

didn't get a bill. and he said they were like some young germans making fun of rushes and some good. you know, green me look in the old gentleman say, what the hell you're talking about? you know that it was his usual this by way. what destroyed so he would just say to a lady with his own eyes in germany, which was born like 25 years ago. we can imagine how bad it is now. well, aaron is, is got, it is very, very bad because over the years and is particularly since 2014 with the illegal change of power. and ukraine is a, is a, there's, there's presentations that ukraine differentiate. and i'd say determine which of course it didn't, it wasn't, it was an independent country at the time, but it's almost at every single level. there's this attempt to diminish the soviet war effort, which is it's, it's, it's, it boggles the mind losing 27000000 people in your own country. and the west is it treats it as if it was an after thought and you know,

saving private ryan that the war was over. go ahead. aaron writes, the soviets, losses in the war. are the number that i've been, that i've seen more off. it is 26600000 with rounds of to 27000000. and the losses for the us are, are for her 1000 with the 200000 e in each theater pacific and european more or less. so that means that the, if you round the soviets up to 27000000, that's 840-0000 rounding error, which is how much the us law. so the us rounding error, the rounding error error. the soviets, really is the loss of the us and the war which isn't to diminish how awful it would have been to be, you know, finding in okinawa or on d day. but it's to say that the sacrifices of the soviets made in world war 2 are on equalled and in human history to feed naziism. and this is probably something that this really service will be bitter about in,

in retrospect and residence today. because the effect of that where our world war 2 and the enormous soviet sacrifices was really to hands the us empire over at global capitalism in the former colonial empires. or soon to be former and the empires and the globe and the global south. this paved the way for the us to become a global juggernaut unrivalled in human history. i think the power that the us had after world war 2, they basically absorb the access into their own global capital system. you know, sonya, one of the things, you know, i, in the way i presented this program introduced this program is again very different than the narrative that you'll find in the west that was victory over fascism over in id ology. okay. now what you'll get if it's remembered in the west victory over germany. okay, over the germans. okay. but it was an ideological struggle and,

and for many people and it's very offensive. and i'm glad that latimer use that word here. is that many and russian feel today that they're fighting the same ideological fall all over again. sonya yeah, that's right, because a, i'm a so i'm from euro and they are claiming that you know, it's a socialism and in that system. but they use it to the german all the time, but actually it's not system and stuff isn't that, that's what we know. and also there's something to we is going on in europe because already in 2019 the u box. the resolution saying that actually the war or starter, the through the mental and most of the agreement that the war started also by russia. so, i mean, and then there are, there were 2 totally 10 states that was russia, and this was germany yesterday. exactly how good cool is. so as from the time of actually already before we can see, did you or is there any? yeah, they try to do is,

is here and isn't this what we see all the time and it's getting worse by the day. like uh, today is the last you using mac. yes. yep. yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy. of course, in her outfits with a yellow and blue cross and naming them now. it was the last piece also claiming that you guys know, and i see some verses of it, none of that pleasing, but the racism again, those of us who is this was he told so yesterday, very funny videos i told him. so i mean, you wrote is re writing and research history. not only this, they are denying, actually the last part of your liberal rates is by the soviet union, the red army russians. and actually they are leaving a lot of people in germany who are also a member rates and 9 of may and the date going on there. and i think in some places they could show the slack a that was the member made. but of course the praise complaints again,

but this is really heavy terminology is going on and it is what i hear it is. it's increasingly, yeah, it's pricing actually i can see comparisons between the no in 19339739045 because russel colea is very, very terrible in europe. and this is when they do tweeting to do as in the 2nd world war or the opposite. yeah, absolutely right. and then what i call as well uh, basically a liberal authoritarianism, the liberal fascism even is appropriate. i think now of why don't mirror it, put this into context here because you know what we're having this revision is i'm going on. it's really quite extraordinary. but uh, the, the, the nazi soviet packed of 1939 it is for trade in the media is in alliance, but i mean, it wasn't in a lion. so, okay, i'm just picking one of hundreds of possible examples here. but they're always conflating that to here and you know what it does, vladimir,

it lets fascism off the hook is. that's what it's doing. it's actually rehabilitating and slowly but surely. vladimir, yeah, it's, you know, this, this idea of what we will and this is very obnoxious. you know, we, we should start a and b, a pool and try to prevent the best we can, you know, what not just was they didn't for, you know, re sees and destruction already one who, who they didn't lie over at home or they declared it. oh, you know what their marriage, that's what do we have to find out? of course, you know, if you're not happy with the way it started and what was encouraging people, because those are and find that it's a different issue. but to draw, the equivalence between countries is insightful and acceptable because basically, you know, 1st of all, if we ended up being, you know, allies in the united states, the roster they were allies, they were fighting please. so generally gated, you will be sort of targets in concrete groups of people, slabs, jewish gypsies,

homosexual, is your name and they would destroy them. so these would, would have to fight for and just try to somehow i'll state the whole thing and bring the little is an in mind you the what does is absolutely unacceptable included in this particular, you know, it was not a non sort of a non war agreement they decided not to take a job. that doesn't mean that the l eyes, so i'm just confused as easy as well. if it's the same time, you know it was it, bridges, government whole model. there's a lot of game on the, with jeff, jeff jeffery, providence of germany, and they agreed on with mooney agreement that was all done by your business right now with the same thing we're getting, you know, give you all want to have the same argument. you can say that it was made possible get, but at least on both sides of the won't do that. we will not don't, that's as if they go to onboard with you know, the air. and what is the point of rewriting this history? well what, why do they want to a race rush?

the soviet more experience as well the fundamental geo political issue for the, for the, at the anglo. so, you know, the land is, this is to make sure that germany and russia are not united the, it with a, you know, russian raw materials and manpower and in german industry. and so this is why you had them, i mean this goes back to world war one and the few years of, of, of, of berlin baghdad railway, a lot of in, is blowing up the north stream or setting up the military industrial complex. and in the early 19 fifties because of a dollar flow part problems, they really wanted to court in theater. and i had that there and i have to go to a harder break. i have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on victory over fascism 78 years ago. steak with our team,

the the

the the welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter roosevelt . to remind you we're discussing victory over fascism. 78 years ago. the okay, let's go back to sonya here in, in moscow. sonya my, my father father in the 2nd world war. he was an e with g one in okinawa. and he very rarely talked about it be because it was this, so her risk was, it was what he saw, what he experience. but he still was interested in the history of the conflict. and we watch together was quite young at the time, but we watched the world war, and it was a documentary series about the 2nd world war of the entire war around the world. and it was a british documentary. and it's one of the greatest document trees ever made, but you know what? sonya,

you probably can find it any more. okay. because it's basically slowly but surely being deleted from the 8th or okay you. every single episode was on youtube 10 years ago. now you can find maybe one or 2. okay. and you know, why is because it gave a balanced view of the soviet experience during the war. that is foreboding now. sorry for the german go ahead in moscow here. sonya yeah, yeah. the that's true. i mean me, myself of the middle of and we always and celebrate the integration of map system of the system made. so that was last week somehow and all the sort of made estimate an average of all the data to follow. and with this priming this the measurements do. in fact, it's to lensky to be on this evening. but supposedly we can memorize all the people who were fighting for us and the phone. and there was one very special person in the middle, and she's called how these up. she wasn't coming there so they will not remember

what they wiped out. and this guy, they semanski watched them thing at the statue somehow enough to donate the dumb. and then they said, oh yeah, we have to commemorate all the best people in ukraine. this is what they do in your and a lot of things. what you said on youtube, like in the world war, i watched it too and you cannot find it anymore. and there's a lot of things now going on and what is revising history? so they, they now focus on these days when, you know, they commemorate the 2nd world war day and focus on ukraine. and this is, i mean there's so many people. dashboard is inversely on that also and you're like my grandfather to. he was a hiring 20 to him is, i mean, he lived in the down and it was a very heavy lochlund. and as to what you had to work in germany and he was hiding out in the which people so and they, they, they don't come memorize the whole day. they rewrite everything and, and the interesting thing was sent about germany and germany. the industry is

something else with the dream and the industry is dall, uh, 80 percent ready. so, i mean, uh, this is, oh i, you probably, you know, its all the great reset and the worst country you have and this is, is the netherlands uh, just the drum. and you said since the 2nd, the 1st rules work, they have to do germany sort of the enemy. so when you think about this o together, then a, yeah, it's clear to want to wipe out the collaboration of the 2nd world war that's going isn't about russia. so actually we are in the heavy bands and states at the moment and especially europe is facing these. well, it's funny i i'm, i'm a full supporter of backer of your farmers. you know, the great, the great is farmers on the planet. they want to just say that it's totally insane, the best farmers in the world. okay. but we're going back to our topic here. i mean,

denying that the, the, the right full victory of the soviet union, 78 years ago. it is part of a process, a big, big, nothing possibly good can come out of russia. but, you know, and that's why you don't talk about beating the nazis. okay. because obviously i think the, even the, let me liberals, we're not gonna stand up for them at least openly. but so there's need, there's virtue in victory over that, that id, ology and that heretic regime here. because at the end of the day, you know, an air and looks like he's pretty good with the numbers here in italy, by the time, by the time of the normandy landing, the outcome of the war in europe was obvious to everyone. vladimir. yeah, i think what it was aaron also mentioned is absolutely correct. that correct is like way of talking about if you were the we are, you know, other call agenda of cold war and the, a global that was more or less of us, you know, frightful their hearts and minds. we were beans, you know,

let's remember the dried up to the war friends and easily and all the other countries were elizabeth, is they, they have a very prominent or minister parties and i, i'm go side, some got absolutely this kid. so there was an absolutely amazing company with ellis . i'm, i don't mind the channel affiliated ca due to the order of trying to convince you, repeat that. that's all they decided that the russians make not think, but usually i think i'm david, i think great achievements and nobody wants to, but you denied great americans. you too much, but they begin to promote great american objects. louis armstrong, you know, next on board only when they got scared the rest of the weather. they wouldn't allow. lu, i'm going to play in mississippi, but then they, they would play seem to play impaired. is justin bradley or beans. they are a very good and the restaurant. i just brutal but bad. and this thing continues and it'd be very important, i think, nowadays, because there's

a new thread on the google horizon is china and try that again. sort of somehow we knew were women. so it's again an attempt to control your beings to prove that don't go to russia, don't go to the oldest corman is a be a, as bio broke up for a product, which is 5 times more expensive destroyer economy do your own thing. so it's continues on for just got the nation of the cold war and they, they view the war. the war against matches is somehow pushed in spring in the direction the west and propaganda was to go, you know, area and, you know, the western audiences don't understand because they're grossly under informed about history and, and contemporary politics. but i'll give you the is the take from us go. so let's look at the countries that are aligned begins with sanctions, you know, trying to, uh, um i, we can russia as much as possible as a secretary of defense said so, but if you're in moscow, you know what, it looks like. it looks like this grand coalition. oh,

the same coalition that was against the soviet union. it's remarkably similar. okay . except for the west as far stronger because the united states is in the big is involved from the beginning not in 1939 to 4, but 41. so, but you know, it's that because of his lack of understanding or willingly, willingly, not understanding history. you weren't doing, you can see how the other guy, the other state and that your opponent, your adversary can see the world. but that's what people see here aaron. right. i mean, the reason that the germans and the japanese and italians went with this fascist system, is because they're a stablish ment of capitalist oligarchs felt that they were threatened. and that the only way to survive was to start murdering all the opponents of the capitalist oligarchy. and so they formed as packed and they called it the anti common turn packed, and that's the real name for the axes. and so they defined themselves by opposition

to capitalism. i mean, sorry, opposition to communism. and then after the war, the us basically picks up a absorbs all the worst bugs and murders and terrorists among the japanese and italian, fascist and the nazis, and uses them to murder on behalf of us empire. equally absorbed and are now still to global fascism. protests and goals, so that comes of lack of quality concept party hardy, more on con, must be released immediately. if the government does not release him, one order will get worse. they have cause a red line trickier chooses the west of interfering and the countries off coming presidential elections of the nation head to the fold this from they also the