on the, on, on the boat, the barbaric execution claimed the lives of at least $379.00 indians. including 40 children, the youngest of who was 6 weeks old. the indian national congress considered the official figures to be underestimated and announced the death of more than $1000.00 civilians. the well known greatest newspaper, the morning post called dyer, the man who saved india, gave him a sword and 26000 pounds sterling as a token of gratitude for the massacre. the amorous star massacre wind down in history as one of the most brutal crimes of the british invaders, and only escalated the affair. struggle of the indians for liberation from the colonial yoke. the welcome to arty exclusive interview with me. so sir,

i am joined by mister occupants outside college. they had offered an affairs commission on the turkish parliament, also member of parliament from assemble of i've part to thank you very much for your time. thank you. let's get into our conversation. looking back at the 20 years of rigid type are due on empower, has to keep being transformed, has trick here actually found herself a place in the new world order. well, 1st of all, of course it has been more than 20 years since a party and our president has been ruling the country. i don't prefer to say empower me, but as the government and the ruling party and as prime minister and president. and of course to kit has transformed herself from the early 2 thousands until now, where we are now is 22 and 3. so there has been a change, of course, in world politics. and it's a tricky always had a place in the global order, but the reason to allotments and of 20 years, i've seen

a change in the world order on the world politics international relations. that's where reality is 20 years ago. today there is a shift and a lot of things. and to regarding that, of course, the shift of world politics also cars to, to, to adopt herself within the world system and the world order. and that sense, of course, church, it has a place. uh today i believe that we have to put forward and for the about the a very strong place of and with politics and diplomacy, and general and international relations. if there was a, there would be a change. we will, of course, adapt to it. but the reality is that's 2, which is at the table and all negotiate and, and all international decision making processes, especially in the region. and in that sense, we have found a place and we have established a fund with a stablished place in the world, or mr. coach, according to the latest polls, the majority of the church people see the countries native partner,

the united states as a potential enemy. to what extent do you agree with this opinion? and what is your typical and chick is relations with it's nato allies. of course, nature is a defense of lights based on, on an agreement as has been signed more than 56 years ago. it's actually entered 70 years now. um and church. it has been a part for, for of may to for a long time. it's been more than half a century and in the defensive lines, of course, we're talking about countries that come together. every country has different views on certain things. but there is a general sense of, of being together regarding certain issues. now of course, funding the funding time of nature was during the cold war. it has a different backdrop than it has today. we have seen a shift in nato's roles from being a safe keeper to was there. so you could say engaging and sort in the areas of

defense and security alliances. but there is always a perception. it's not only true to me, we have to, we have to be very frank and open about this. there's always a certain reservation towards united states politics in the world. i was born and raised in germany and i know that in german politics there's also a reservation towards international relations. and the the attachment of, of the us or, or their point of view. just at the turn of the century before we became the government into care, there was a strong rift between germany and, and the united states. will there need to elijah, as well. there's also the for deep differences between fronts in the us on certain issues. so yes, there is from time to time differences regarding certain issues and, and the view for it on these issues or how we should deal with these in depart public perception to public view. of course, if you look at it, the united states has in our view and easily inc, still some things that are hurting to just do

a particular position. and also it security. namely the p k, k n y, p g and p y d, a partnership with the tears organization that us is, is putting forward. they're saying it's, it's not a terrorist organization wipers. you, if you are the, we're seeing it isn't their own. actually at the us intelligence is saying that the same people are running the p k. k are also at the head of the p y, p g and p y d. so these are the differences. also regional issues and security issues. there has been a long time debates going on in church in regarding those recruiting, the costs that we had and the animals and of the united states. now, of course, these ideas or these thoughts are not being helped by the fact that after certain years, we find out that or find out that us has been active in interfering and international internal relations of different countries. so these speculations and ideas of course, are being fuel in that sense. so it's, it's on the us to work on the person. some of the people did that in the united

states, but generally see we have differences without the different nato allies. but we see the alliance as an important the lights, and we are part of this, and we are actually the 2nd, the 2nd largest army of nato. and also we are one of the 5 countries, the 1st white, 5 countries, the contribution to the budget of nature. and so in that sense, we're taking very seriously what the need to align stands for. however, like i said, there are different point of views, different approaches to certain issues and to we are not deviating from those. so in a sense, we could samuel also steering nato in the, in the correct direction that we believe it is and should be on certain topics. there was a certain amount of distrust regarding us, u. s. foreign policy. just recently the interviews or the views that present bite and during his election campaign a few years ago, i gave regarding to just democracy democracy in particular, the landscape on helping these of course, these,

these kinds of wrong attitudes in wrong. attributions, do not, uh, diminish, in the sense, the, the, this rest of the people towards us, foreign policy, but fuel them. so it's, it's not on us. it's the us part that they have to be clearing out. but yes, we could say there was a, there's a strong resentment regarding some of the actions that you guys, us taking in international politics. if you're saying that you're trying hard actually to have good relations with the nato allies, at the same time rush century to a cooperation has been growing ever since with despite the rest of the green conflict and the best western sanctions on moscow, pistons are due on visited summits of the bricks, group of countries and other eastern political unions actually use turkey pivoting towards alliances with eastern powers. now, international politics is an area where and you have your own countries and the

1st points in certain points and your own countries in people's interest at heart. this is a reality of international politics. so we are part of nato. we are part of a lot of this alliance. we are also part. we are negotiating country to become a member of to, for you opinion, for member of your opinion. the reality is that we are not shifting. but like i said in the beginning of the world, the system is shifting in certain areas. we're not looking at world war 2 polls. like i said in the cold war, there's, do they show a lines in the shop. now, this is not the world that we're living in today so that there are certain areas where you have to act sometimes alone, where you have to act with allies and where you have to act with different countries or neighboring countries together. in that sense, we are taking the interest of the turkish nation to touch people at heart. but we also trying to fulfill our duties towards our allies in alliances. now, there is a difference in certain issues the membership of finland and sweden to nature.

freelance has been able to become a natural member with the support of 2 to you. however. see is reading is not at this point because reading is not fulfilling. it has not fulfilled yet. the obligations or the promises that were given in measure it last year. and that's the reason. and so in this sense, there are differences, but it doesn't mean these questions were asked to us in the future and in the past as well as to which is shifting towards this or that when, for example, in other european union country or nature ally and certain relations are different relations with russia or for example, the eastern countries, china, uh, or india for that sense or japan. and then there's always that nobody's talking about a shift in the countries politics. but if took is acting in the interest of her own country. and when people then everybody's trying so well as here is 22 shifting, we're not shifting very clear. the 1st engagement that we have on the 1st you to that we have is towards our people and talked to as our country. and in that sense,

we're trying to, when we're doing this, we're trying to protect our interests. but we also work integrated from the countries. sometimes we have differences. and in china, for example, a lot of european union countries have very deep economy cause relations with china . and also the us and, and in that sense, with india, a lot of european union countries or nato allies have a very long ranging wide ranging relationship with india as. so why is to j as having these relations are we asked? or if they're shifting or not, we should be asking them, are you shift? i think it's because you are a very strong country within they don't. we are, we are a country, like i said, we have the 2nd 2nd largest army. and we'll see force and our borders, of course, are next to very unfortunate. it's hot spots in the world right now. i mean,

we're boarding syria reporting iraq. that's where the c we are bordering washer and deep. right? and then these are right now hot spots where there is a big problem. i think, situation going on, i mean the war in ukraine and also the, the civil, the stable situation of syria and iraq. and of course we have, you run to the east, which is also not the very, very easy neighbor in the sense that there's always also not only around what the, what does the run doing and being our neighbor. of course, we have a different relationship. we have a closer relationship with where they run and sometimes we are also getting some attention regarding our relations with your own. but the reality is there a neighbor we have most economical ties. we have social ties and we have a ship and border which way. sure, so we can not be behaving is this as if we are on an ocean away? this is reality of life. and so, yeah, i mean, the position of trick is also in

a sense where we can into influence positive outcomes in trouble regions which we are, which we're trying to do to this also get into the politics. mr. college polarization is a term used very often within 2 kit and abroad. actually do agree that to turn out the election. so now it will be a crucial factor to intrude q because of how intensely polarized the country has become recently. well, if you look into other countries political landscape, you will see that a lot of countries in the world right now we could be characterized that as being polarized us, for example, the democrats and republicans out there. if you're following their statements and their tv programs under their rallies, you can see that the us is, is the polar ice right now. in germany, there's also polarization. and if you want to label it in that way in front, right now, people are writing in the streets because of a certain decisions that president mccord has taken regarding the pension funding,

the pension. this is age, and it's only, it's only coming done. now there's a but there's also a very strong result. any political route it pulls equal situation that you have in the country are going to an election. will of course bring about a bit more tension within the country. but i would not say that that we are deeply polarized. but if you ask me about the election participation determination of the church, people have a very high to and also records in the past. so we are very and i would say, responsible in the sense of going to the about books since elections have been held into a chair after the after the fifty's. since multiparty a rule is introduced into cat people have been going to going to hold a lot. and we are actually one of the countries that has the highest turnover in any which also should go back and deposit compared to other european countries or the us, or any country that has the democratic elections. so the journals will of course be

a factor in the result of dealing. sure. but it's not because we are seeing that the country is polarized in the sense, or that there is a difference. the difference of opinion. it's just that the turkish people do like to go to vote and to take their voice and make their voice heard an election because they believe that when they go to the election and votes, they will also have a say in the countries future. so in that sense, we're taking democracy at heart as you just mentioned, the voters living abroad. so i also know that recently you criticize german and not allowing a loving to set both access to every state, but saying that the old church borders in the country should go to the embassies or to come. so it's why do you think germany made such a decision? unfortunately, when we asked about a expansion of molding stations, if you will, the boxes in germany. and of course,

the turkish states representation as being the embassies, the general consulates and the other concerts were allowed. but the extra and valid books hillcrest was not granted by the federal government. now we have to make a distinction here because germany is a country which is a federal government, which is a federal state system. and the states have decisions making power is about their own a certain areas. now, no city or federal states has said no, but the federal government, regardless of, of this factor has said they're not going to allow the extra valid boxes to be open . one of them being in my birth city, i don't want to be sounding like a conspiracy if there is, i don't believe in conspiracy theories, but the reality of the analysis that i can make is that this was a politically motivated decision and not to grunt extra ballot boxes. first let's have the election, which i know will be a very, very good election kind of in the,

in the end. but after that we will sit down and talk with all german friends why they've taken this decision. yeah, let's also talk about um for an intervention issue, which underlined by a different chief move, whichever show a little. uh, what is your take on the latest economist cover with the title, the most important election on which one to in history, which was adorned with the tax save democracy and are doing moscow will come from the economist. of course, it's a very political because the economist is it a presenting uh, is it presented in the country or they're publishing in the country that you k, which has introduced the world to the world camry general. so we know that unfortunately on democratic interventions and the okay have happened in the past. so i think they're trying to put forward a different picture in the world in different directions and, and trying to x and to put the picture there that and saying that we're not alone.

it's not only happening to the u. k. now, it's unfortunate that they're trying to put this in a sense where they believe they can have a decision making a power or decision making the influence on the search people. this is not the case, and they will be quite shocked after the people go to the ballad boxes. but this is not only happening the okay, not only economist, unfortunately, we've seen this in front. we've also seen it in germany. and so there's always this interesting attitude, where is the, where are they saying we are doing this by the free press. we're doing this for democracy, but they don't like it when it happens to them. if they go and say something to, for example, our diaspora, which is living outside of georgia. and if they're asking us what she would do or this, we give them an opinion it's, it's up to the people to decide what they're going to do. but if they ask me an opinion, i will give them nothing. so they're seeing anything that we're seeing or doing as

much interference, but they are doing it outright and very openly. and then there's a labeling it is democracy. this is not democracy, this is plain outs. interference in solving countries, decision making process. we're trying to integrate. um, so i believe all people will give them the appropriate answer on the 14th. but of course, in the sense of international diplomacy. and there's all of the things that we have, we can say and are saying, but there are also some things that we are waiting to see and do after the election . right now. we are in an auction company. um and what we're taking, it's a bit easy in the sense that we don't want to increase any, any weight tensions. but we see the realities, we know what they're trying to do. and to after the election, we will sit down and have a very open discussion and i don't think it is in any countries or any publications, rights, or they don't have any kind of a justification for what they're doing. now i know damage evasion is

a hatred towards present that one and the, the attitude that they want to see present add one go on. if you look at, in that sense, there's a, there's also a political, the idea or philosophy representation into a tier that has come together. and they will need image to this thing and openly. and they only image to say, well and to achieve that present ad one is another elected president. now if you're acting in the same way, then i have the rights to ask the question, are you working together? let's go back to chick international relations with an in case question, in case the searching like glitched, a role that is elected into the presidential office. how could be the relationship between russian true to effect is could we expect equals relations with russia if crush started on the wind slowly my vehicle is that all of mr. calisto is not going to be a president. so i, i don't see the relevance of even giving default of what he will do or will not do

in the individual sense. but if he wants to know how he sees it to the kid, i'll show relations or international relations, he will have to ask him. i cannot speak on his behalf. and you'll notice interview, you have stated that turkey is natal countries to content and talks with both for in parties in ukraine realtor to your continued to play this role and is there any chance the country will extend the greenville? if you want to custodial takes over. so this is another kenworth coast or all the but this is about, you know, the state policy and that's a political part of policy. maybe you will have an answer for this is this i can analyze for you in a political sense and political it on a political view. like i said, i don't believe that the, the opposition parties where the opposition book, or in that sense, mr. coach that it will be like a president. however, if you ask me if we have a,

how we are going to look at the situation, it's clear we are in the position where we're saying, there was a boy in the ukraine. and this is an unprovoked attack by russia to would you crate? i'm not going to go into details about how we are living since more than a year now and degree. and we have very clear stands on it. and i'll present has made it very clear that he wants to see a citation of, of violence very soon and very quickly. but also there's realities on the ground. for example, greens, you, this is something that present add on personally with a working together with president fulton and other international organizations has brought about. and we're taking it very seriously that it's that the green and the food that is produced and the ukraine is being shipped and transport it to the world because people are in need of, of, of this food. so this is the different chapters that we looked at have to look into about, like i said, i don't know what mr to we started was planning to do. and what were, what their,

what his parties planning to do, or what their cole parties in the atlanta are going to do. because i've seen that also they contradict each other different for them. policy experts or for them hold see representatives within different parties in the party, in the c h, b, and, and their lines right now with the h t p. there's a lot of different views on what they can do will do or would do. so i don't know how they will look at it, but it's our standard skills. okay. some people ensure to express their fears that if mister ad on those as the elections, he will refuse to hand over power. what is your take on this? well, the people who are saying this or trying to portray a picture in this, that they don't know the president's didn't know his track record, didn't know how he has been constantly since more than 40 years. been active in democratic political environment and how he has been elected to after election of

the election and took into office. and he is, we are very clear on this. we are here in the democratic sense. we have always said as our party and the president has always said that the people decided to buy the books, the turkish, the there is a big, savvy generosity, shopkeeper or somebody who isn't in business. how do you expect to, how do you run your company? would you have 7 different co owners or general managers? everybody will say to you will look, this is not how you run a business. this isn't the business side that we're talking about running the government of a country. so i don't believe that the people will. we will accept in any way that one, president, 7 deputy presidents will have to sit down, make a decision for some people. takes this as a meeting and a common sense meeting. and a common sense is bring your ideas together. you will not be there's,

there's ideas as opposed to good philosophy. and then there's the realities of running a government who cannot sit down and have $78.00 heads, one issue. you can have a cabinet where there's one head of the cabins. president prime minister. you have a discussions with your, with your ministers as the government. ok, then you take a decision, but you cannot have 7 heads. this the different series that they have 7 to 8 heading fingers. this is the hard part of it. none. i mean, they have made the declaration when they made it came together and decided to run as one alliance with different party heads. and everybody's saying something else. they cannot even agree on the fact. if the p k. k is a terraced organization or not. i mean just recently, one of the candidates, unfortunately, who we see deviating from his past. he was administered in a, in our cabinets as well. uh, i searched with him also and cabinets. uh,

but he mentioned the federal terrace organization in a very different sense. they're saying it's, it's some kind of slip up into tongue, but i don't believe it is because you can slip up once, but both why twice. so in the back of their head, there is a different attitude and also on the p k. k. terrace organization, which we're seeing very plainly. um, there is a member of the federal lines or a supportive member of the lines, which is not able to say that the p k. k is the test organization. and they're talking about the security of our people. how the wants to bring about the security, or how are you going to protect your people? if you cannot even agree on a tourist organization that is unfortunately responsible for $140000.00 pets of your own citizens. the, the

screen of them must do. i just need to get them with key at the washington state. the bruce is to the dealer. my computer says to phone up, send this to you the use of the city and to see for the list of our budget they use the level the willing of the us over to the to the local union doria so name yeah. i do. she

ship a duck clean, i should put a control room for 2 of our solutions to get them awarded by the actually system really be and you have enough people, lots of websites and stuff. i'm assuming. yeah, we did the boom of cloud. so it's actually it's strange of talk through this, but i'll let you as well. but the crazy if that's what we're used to motivate myself way, but just to do you still know? sadly, if she ever always get us but the shipper, instead of just stick with a lift or flip that came over to them, i need the bureaus says that you train school. so that's the only for each of the board of where you finish enough to buy these fools, clicked the button. so i'm sitting here waiting for you to

recreate your staple feature of the day so that i'm not the how they come to class. she's in rushes pretty on squeezing, which folders ukraine, while a fight to jet for pull to the comes down in the same area. the russian city over the guns case shows by your freight in 4 days following to miss all attacks on friday to left. 6 children wounded the form of french presidents. nicholas r k. v face is a new trial ever allegations of receiving towns, pains buttons from libya, with length to its full. anita lewalma, the a very well welcome to you is just tons, 9 pm here in moscow. and this is all to international with the very latest news on

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