so it groups we think is most doing the opposite. the worst started in 2014. and since then, nato has implemented the biggest reinforcement of our collective defense. since the end of the cold war, the ukraine is not in nato. right. okay, so let's go there. and george, which sticks out to me is a 2014. it's just kind of dangling there. what, what is to the, the reader never finds out what 2014 means kick it off guard. well that's exactly right and that's a has a introductory question and on so gives you a good sense of what stilton bug is about. he reveals the we've been involved in ukraine arming training. the ukraine invoices this 2014 and they have the same time where us to believe that russia launch the unprovoked attack unprovoked. there was nothing at all. then the 3 seated. it's the code of let the russians to decide to attack. and then um, the later on, uh, the, the,

get an answer to another question. he says, oh um, we know, nato really has 2 tasks and your brain. one is to give everything your grain uh needs. uh, the 2nd is to prevent escalation. um, how do we prevent escalation, what we prevent escalation uh, by declaring that nato is not about the to the conflict that you just said. you're gonna give everything your grand needs. you know, the body of the conflict by moving all of our forces east was right on the rushes borders. so you prevent escalation by escalate to. i mean, you know, you, we know, but 0. george rolls 1984 will res piece. ignorance is strange. this is just busy. i mean there are sort of like you just, there's one thing. and then in the next then does, he completely contradicts himself. but this is what nato is about. and they did a good. is it? we're

a defensive alliance. that is why we continue doing the expand of these woods and everywhere, and then we're going to get taken more more, more contracts, but we are a defensive alliance. how, how does that get to be defensive? and then as you say that nobody ever challenges you told them that it goes on how nato is regard in the west. the media, paul is to make us up with this somehow. so evidently on the side of good when it isn't the obvious aggressive war machine ever. yeah, i think it was twitter of a one point. oh, basically you've had your vendor rates made. so i can remember and things like that . i mean, basically putting it on a pedestal a martin. what's, what's really interesting here again, you know, we shouldn't be surprised that the interviewer or the, the, the watching post editorial board was, didn't challenge him one thing and was just an object, the pure and simple. but if you go, it's very interesting. if you look at the entire interview, it's really what's interesting to me is that the whole idea of security is

completely missing. because if nato claims to be defensive in terms of security, then by definition or go, others have security as well. this is something is never recognized by nato. it all good. no one has a security interest. everyone is top hat. there's no, there's no conversation with and this is the fundamental flaw of this alliance. and this plot inherently makes it very dangerous. depends what we see, what's going on in your grand more? yeah, i think that's a fair point, but i think it also raised the question, but the, what is the actually the identity of the race on the desktop of need. so itself, is it the defense alliance, which in the event of defending a certain area of ground for its members, will actually go to war and put man on the front line i lose lives. i'm do with all that, or is it an alliance, which is more, i would all your a to shop, which takes the situation, the crisis,

whatever is right to the very inches away from the abyss and plays this game against russia. so the actual, the emphasis is on russia to not escalates just completely most since we're still the biggest thing about we, we provide escalation needed quite the opposite. but you know, i understandable journalist and you, you talk about some stenography and i look at this interview as i'm completely psych completely, i'm absolutely still to this interview is not really an interview. and this is why the beloved, isn't it? like, i mean there's a huge prolonged of these made talking about 2014 that goes against complete a narrative of what has been pumping out for so long. but i think as a cynical jim this, i see this as a, as a scripted interview or be done by e mail permit done by the press department and they so in the press to unzip somebody on the, on the board, the washington post. let us give you a no to a trick of the trade. done is can usually spots scripted interviews like this

a 1000000 miles off. and one of the giveaways is the any journalist of any real experience will tell you that the real genius in the gym, the nuggets of interview is really introduced. politicians follow up questions. right? that if you look at this, there are no follow up questions. why not? because it's scripted because it's been written by people. you know, it's not, it's not a real interview. i'm a need to, but gentleness was, was, is weight in the siberian thoughts. we'll look at 2 or 3 of these really important points to store a bug, a supposedly made and follow up with a key question. given the example of his reference to china and russia, these as an interview. you know, nate, so doesn't compare to joining with russian terms. administrative ability get any jonas wood chip in there. and so you have it for how long when you look at the bridge countries lining up 90. now, where you look at the brakes very rapidly starting into east and brook and having

its own policies this upcoming season banking system is only a matter of time before the defense strategy. it kicks in, particularly if the americans, people with disruptions against children. that's exact. but that's exactly the point, george is that it has nothing to do with defense of anything that i can to see is what, what it is to maintain and perpetuate the gemini. that's what this is very odd reference . it's no, well now it's sergeant schultz. a not a good friend of ours when he was in moscow a few days before the start, the reference level special mother draw up where she said, oh, this is all nonsense. um no one has any serious plans about bringing ukraine into nature. so which is the lie that it will members agree that you grand will be a member of nato, something that they are continually repeated in $1.00 and $8.00. those only after another. the name of your brain will be a member of nato. ringback sergeant schultz, i remember when michael look full and roddicks, of course,

getting that debates with the nearest time. is that no, no, no, there was never any serious plan or bringing your brain into 9 to so which is the line one. the statement though, the other has to be aligned, but that's something they do. he just gets away with it by staying late and really observe things over the deceitful things you know, stopping with the, the pledge not one inch to the east. and then the, the goal, well, no, we didn't, we, we didn't really mean that we, we just don't let germany, we went over the rest of this, but we basically moved, made those boat as a 1000 miles. so these is just a dizzying series of lies like this, get away with because there really is no challenge from the median. yeah, the martin and the fragment that i that i read of the, the year 2014 again, there's no references. what with the significance of that, obviously the reader is not informed that that was an illegal change of power in, into, of the cool against the live, legitimate,

a democratically elected governments. but there's also missing is the men's process that's not there whatsoever. you know, george is talking about the different levels of deceit that way of experience. and with that we don't have any reference to merkel the alon and what their reference was to the, in the me, none of the say, a journalist, what have you said? well, can you explain then? not that doesn't happen by that low follow up questions you know, script into it reminds me obviously very much of the um, the circle, white propaganda of the 1980s during the reagan era. you had a lot of logic was placed in the washington, but as the new york times, i don't care about the good naples values of the country is something, all that great people and tell them to value a cherish all values. and we have so much income with them and you know, they did, it was, well, there's articles of lesbians millions dollars spent, you know, it's an ice but with the same thing of my own career in yugoslavia exact rep,

imagine nice use. i mean just goes home on business, syria and iraq. i'm not going to stone. you this information to campaign. and this, this just trying was with it just for me. this is just an extension of it. could it be, but actually drive by and how to handle this. so if you ever wanted just how close nato and washington, uh, or if you ever wanted exactly the role that is required, open dates, a secretary general, you know, a lot of people just rush him off as america's pocket. look at these talking based taking notes. look at these um, booking point story. and they just seem to be almost identical to all of the objectives that america is trying to reach. not only in your brain but in the world . and with him how i mean giovanna. we shouldn't forget is very conservative, and he has a very conservative nato secretary general that they're both looking back in history, not looking for they both want an east west gold rules. that's where everything is

nice in binary and simplified. and we know how to do. i'll do, let me know who are in these uh, me new uh, friends. uh you know, the rest of the 2014. i find absolutely hilarious because you don't expand on that . and the reason why it is always found that because he doesn't want to actually open this kind of rooms where everybody realize i'm going to jump in here, we're gonna open up a lot more tangible as the 2nd part of the book, i'm just going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break and into that short break. we'll continue our discussion on some real nice thing with marketing. the when someone tells you who they are, you should believe with the same applies to nato's current. secretary, generally on stilton, for an interview with the washington post. office major is in fact a cold, illiterate in the brain conflict. and that the alliances, anything defensive the,

the, the across that were all things are considered on peter low. this is the home addition to remind you, we're discussing some real lives. the right. let's go back to george in budapest. also in the article is something you and i talking about our pod cast very often is a silver and makes reference to our values. like what that was about allegories operating, just very unclear to me. i know the word, i can spell the word. i recognize the word when i see it when i hear it. but what i hear from these kind of officials, it's just kind of like, you know, little about, you know, listening to the ocean in the shell. your, it's, yes, the show,

the book is a great one with the, with all the values. because it's a, it's one of those words like a, it's a, it's a boswell that makes people feel good because they want to go as bad because we have values where moral with spiritual uh, you know, we cherish freedom, democracy, you know, motherhood, apple pie, they on the other hand, don't, you know, they said that, you know, down in the dungeon, puffing the will things and the only thing and malevolent. oh, it's all the time. so that's why, why, you know, he says these things that the, everyone feels good about the need to. and that's really how, you know, there's the main to, there's just this gigantic propaganda machine. i mean, they, they saw a enormous sums of money, crazy movies, fellowships of all these things, bang, some of these conferences. and everyone goes that they, uh, shower, favors on jo, notice on their favorite journalists. and so, you know, when they, when they go to, uh, you know, these news conferences, they get good seats,

they get to ask questions on those, or in any way skeptical of nato. you don't get into the nato news conference, or if you do, you know me about a told me the fact that no one's going to pull you and you know, and any time, any time you ask a challenging question, showed him but you know, fumbles it, and he's getting me a rescued by uh, by other jo in the lives. unfortunately, he passed. and all those ask a question about yugoslavia, which was really exactly somebody i think that was a wonderful russian german listening. got in off the question. obviously they went off script, do they called him and he's that was both arise by the united nations security council. a in the you can.