requested the vision to proceed. news and genuine threats. tents in united states, it's quite strong in france, in the u. k. there's certainly so many unresolved contradictions, that you know, that the, the context of an external conflict, internal opponent, guys ation. it's heading towards very choppy waters. indeed. although i noticed that you have spoken about a very uh, nascent movements uh, which are not. uh, would you buy pauses on in the united states, to a lesser extent in your design. would you just doesn't they don't want war and it doesn't matter whether you're republican or democrat. you just don't support the existing stages. quote of i suppose nato expansion. it's a fascinating development, especially in united states where you have the old fashioned, conservative, good people at patrick buchanan and the launch of paleo conservative movement,

very, very critical of the walls and you have old fashion status. so i'm thinking, for example, the queen c institute for the responsible statecraft, which is a junior restraint. and then of course, you have the, the old fashioned and the drum for sympathetic to the old left wing, the peace movements, massachusetts piece movement as all sorts of organizations and individuals. and it's actually, yeah, that's one of the only encouraging signs now is that these as a general debate in united states about this, unfortunately in the u. k, this is very limited. yes, the movements, the, i'm starting to will coalition still exists. the campaign for nuclear development is still active and even though higher holes, the demonstrations against a major policy in london. now. yes, it did happen less than during the 1st world war. yes. is that hysteria?

oh yeah. and data insight to this double was hoping to meet in saint pancras. i church and you know, and the conway whole. and indeed it's, it's absolutely scandalous because the whole point of a civilized society is that you can have discussion and open debate. and unfortunately, it's become figure out how to do that is unfortunately in the u. k. above all, i think i'm feeling submitted today. there's a very interesting and lively discussions, and then germany unpopular protests between the u. k. in england, i mean i, pads and scotland. why is this different? but in england it's very limited. doesn't surprise you that since we last spoke to each other, people like anglo muck level. people came out to explain that the minutes agreements. do you think we discussed in that just temper edition going undergrad? december 2021. that that was a, a basically a point to, um, ukraine. further in preparation as it was a bombing,

of course the civilians were doing. yeah. it's gonna ends. which provoked as the russian see it and the response for bosco. yeah. um, she did say that in fact twice and so did for us what a long day as a member of the enrollment, the format i wonder is as concerning miracle, i just wonder whether she's saying that no because she's getting so much flag because she supported all the way through the building of nodes doing to in fact, most one earlier. and she was absolutely committed to the continuation of the energy partnership between germany and russia. and so when the that fell apart in february last year, that she, in a sense, found herself politically exposed. and as we know, she was a mazda in maneuver political maneuver. so i wonder whether earlier, but the worst thing of course, about minutes is that russia was constantly exalted to fulfill it's all named obligations wise, very specific ukrainian obligations and it wouldn't be particularly putting any

pressure on them. so clearly i think that both i can give them a call and although, and have a lot to answer for, i will try so interesting. we met cool in the lead up to the events last of last february 2022 was very active, diplomatically. i know i, i do support that terminal. i know that, you know, applaud attempts to find a diplomatic solution that can lead to anything. and it just shows the ways that you pay leaders like to action that they, you know, they, they, you know, that perhaps unknown schultz before the events also was active diplomatically. um, but you know, the decisions were taken in washington and so which once again very sadly, my view as an old fashioned coolest. who wanted to see over the years i've been calling for pam continental vision, some sort of vision of unity from lisbon to fly. the 1st stop and instead of which

we ended up as hyper atlantis is and which basically marginalized the old, what i have now does cool, there's legacy powers that fear on says germany that so you okay, the wheels my tongue, but i'm not actually engaging with anything some taps, i'm starting to go, so i know i know from some friends in joining the war on iraq, but child the goal, the black and rehabilitation of neo nazis and vc, we must remember, i'm actually using the question that actually was that always a lie that the, even from, with the brand on europe was always a marshal plan, vassal states. and we would just tell the lies in our schoolbooks, because basically, as we know, the size of the rams teen based, i don't know how many us soldiers are in the country or speaking to me from right now. it is always active in lock step for us imperialism around the world as well as you, you mentioned new york and there was a united kingdom didn't join in vietnam. interesting so, so leaders do make a different entitled, wilson, we refuse to, to commit u

u k. forces to written them as to any dates what happened the last and well he resigned in 1976 that i mentioned not long enough to x and t in my view is still the greatest prime minister we had in the okay, to be honest, there are some in african countries that may not uh, we don't support that date. of course. um you, the fact is, i presume from where you all the same media, bbc, i think the, the bosses, bbc, is the quits over a loan, arranging loans, devoris johnson. but they're all painting rusher is losing this, this was the food chain is either eel or about to be over the throne. do you think people believe these stories as to how far rusher is last miscalculated, then it's actually the end of russia before we soon witness the end of china. that seems to be a narrative coming from reuters and associated press again,

once again when control of the contract pending, you can ask the states and united states the age, say, you know, it took a coast and of course it was pushing forward a different perspective in the u. k, we now have to be news and we have some, uh, alternative that not huge origins as yet. and but interesting enough the, the mass media is very strongly of one voice saying what you just said. but then you're going to have in the daily mail. and i know mislead respect. peter hitchens, who's being making the, you know, the different point of your perspective and more balanced. view of to say this is an awful well, really must find a way to find a diplomatic way out of it and west and to him for less than that. yes. as losing that you could. and his winning is uh, you know, he's arguing in many others that is a false negative, but i don't think it's making much of a, an impression in the public, to be quite honest. at the moment. professor, richard stockwell, stop you. the law from the author of the books frontline ukraine,

crisis in the woodlands and the pigeon patter dogs after this. break the part of rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show seriously. why watch something that's so different little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do the have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you the past this 30 years. the last last not by the school to

walk, to continue your insured and bonded and realize the issue on their own interest. the less that, that's not a false pattern and the comment that on country they pass it along to these off to the news of why the supposed to be that. so the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still with the university of kent's emeritus professor of russian in european politics. professor richard quin, what have you made about the russians? the use of private military contract is v us style black with the military contract is that we remember from the iraq war with disastrous effects. why? why does russia need a wagner group to fight in a team of school or back much what?

what do we, what do you made about of a lot of yeah, i went to a document would be a to sign up for we're having to put the fragmentation of the state. it's not just about connect group if, because we also have to condition of could do with 2 forces. we also have cossacks, and of course the 4th major known state to formation of the, the forces. and they go to nets, people's, you'll have the guns on the other side from a purely military and point of view. the argument goes back to augusta is preserving it. first of all, it's not feeling in the reservists into the front line. some of the con, of course, but yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a very, you know, maybe it's a post modem and the phenomena of post modern statecraft is that you can move a lot of different forces. worst thing is, of course, is that the wagner coop as a private military company, doesn't have likes that say framework, i still know low. so. yeah. de facto, do you? yeah, it's a, it's an illegal formation. i like only others. what was it?

i am after range the new liberal, the breaking down to the to the so you can just suggest didn't surprise you as a scholar to hear how quickly culture was changed in uh, your opinion. obviously television channels banned but russian. sports does. valley stuff. sopranos composes. i, your book on ukraine talks about the long history of the i'm of the horribly violent history of ukraine and central europe and so on. but this kind of blanket banning of the rights is like the whole story and those 2 you have ski did it, did it to show you a big chunk, heavier, and it's a shocking phenomenon. you could also show us the journalist in the mainstream media, seemingly. they don't every day talk about the banning of uh, check off skiing whales or something. yeah. well, that was good in the beginning, and it was the 1812 of every chair which does have a lot of bangs and kind of so that may have been insensitive, but uh,

and initially of course no. ok, there's been a backlash against that. the binding of culture because once you start to cancel culture, there's no winter when side junior is out to the bustle. it is shocking, i think, by any level. but is it, am i surprised? no, because i've been ongoing for quite a time now that to the sort of the atlantic west, there's a bunch of west out there. there's a culture of the west to civilizational, well west, but the political west, as it took shape during the cold pool of to the cold war, became much more radical. and at the same time, i've used this word. so if you use it for metric though it's closed it, it's impervious to things coming from outside of it. and it then becomes a louder and louder echo chamber when only it only hear what it wants to. and when it has things from care of enough thing and the poles saying bad things about gotcha is an amplified, you know, somebody could is and maybe say, but,

and it's mag, which huge the magnified and it's got to his point. now when the 2nd co tool is at all levels was then the 1st coldwell, i don't think we had any of this intensity. and in fact towards the end with coldwell, we had culture and exchanges. we had working on the international space station, but this coldwell, the intensity of it is damaging to, you know, to all the parties concerned, not just those at the end of things in the russian and but those who impose it because it changes the society and it changes in the nation, ship it in the state, and society in the heart of to the west itself to which of course that i'm not sure they defend as a sir. a russian was being treated as a, as a jew, some communists were in your, in world war 2, which seems to be the anecdotal stories that i hear that russians are treated in a european union. did russia break the you and charles have because had at the

un general assembly, most of humanity represented by envoys refused to vote, condemn russia. russia of course, maintains it up to newland talking about bio labs. and so when there was adequate need to protect russia from what was happening, they had learned to protect the civilians of don't yeah, it's getting new hands, which i think is a kind of a reason that was given wasn't enjoying the slide, will buy your repeating balance it didn't break it and the i c, c warrant on putting these that are these a emblematic of the fact that the you in charge. so it'd be to have tional, criminal court, all these sorts of institutions and now showing up for what they have beam, which is ways to actually benefits imperial power rather than what they were designed to do. i guess simply that the 2 things out. absolutely. the un and the un charter and all of the subsequent protocols is the foundations of the international

system today, a breached so often as by the anglo american invasion of iraq earlier as for the event. so for february of 2022. you and yes, of course, most co argues that it does right of self defense as of article 51 of the you and show it to doesn't allow it. and then, of course, you would then say was the russian and any imminent danger of being attacked. and of course, preemptive rule is not a with a majority, but i am working on another book i just to say on this, which i, i wasn't a fascinating element says is those last few weeks of decision making and the most co, who and i won't say now, but there, i've actually found something very fascinating information about how the russian political military lead broke out and it was very significant voice has been moscow who avoiding that if you actually goes 1st and it will get hit with sanctions and

only pm for breaking a charter would then come out, and so some people just wait until you came, forces go 1st and then you can have, i think, but the united nations and the international system, which it presents is the appeal, i mean, live who, off it goes from foreign minister and russ appeals to it and china appeals to it and i don't think it should be discounted, likely. okay. that's certain circumstances with national interest have to go forward as they are perceived. the, i see, see something totally different. this really is the criminal charge against, against put you in and against the children's comment. commissioner, if you knew of a video of a is a, is i, it was clearly i put collect. and what we've not seen in the last few years is the use of patience by the political west of those institutions of international governments and international society. they've tried to do it with you and then it

system they're fighting back as soon as you just said that so many in the global south in china and india defending it to the end. so the west is most allowed to privatize the u. n. system in turn to it's to as may, the security council unworkable. but the, i say is a different case. and a p c, w, the chemical weapons body. they've been effectively become part of a political west. so they no longer on turn numbers institutions, they all deny that, of course, despite the o, b, c, w, getting into a terrible scandal, obviously of helping to precipitate war on, on syria. so, why is it, do you think that the pundits and deletes? and i suppose call us in the nato nations. really believe ukraine will win. what, why do they see? because if you cream, i mean everyone loses in war of course. but why does he play to?

they actually say that ukraine, when, when i assume most people in the world would agree that on paper, russia will win as well. yes, it has escalation dominance. it's a big country, is called and foggy. i took resources and even some of the us generals in the quiet moments, and they do have quite a few moments. they say that one moment they say augusta is a, you know, losing then the next minute they'll say, well let's, as forces on that large. and so i'm going back to organized then the yeah go why the, why the west and pundents are saying this because i not listening to those tremendous commentators as kind of douglas mcgregor, for example, in the united states is just one example i was call use of the people labeled as foods and apologised, obviously, i know just to have douglas grants comprehensive. yes. they, i mean, but very providing, i mean, these uh, you know, expert opinions, are you good?

so any voice which they don't want to have coast is condemned as being, you know, following most go talking points and so on, which is, again, it's an intellectual closure. one reason why i'm talking about this is that we've, i simply insist that you know, dialogue has to continue with, with every one. and you can't just suddenly close down a little discussion close down debate because it damages us. you know, i'm, you know, we'll pay to get to know the phone countries. we want to see them survive. we want to see them 5, but it takes different ways and do people have different ideas of how they should be done, i believe in dialogue. i know tool can talk and talk and discuss just to make sure that i wouldn't be intimidated by being people i've been i get my share of abuse of coast as well. we can effectively be silence though, of course. i mean, as i said, we spoke to on saturday to the advisor to zalinski his troops,

who former advisor and an american veteran, and a spoke against any type of sense ship. because of course, the united states has that for assuming mortgage guarantees. that's where is a, i think some americans are support lensky to build. they look bemused. leaves, in fact the j at twitter has to ban tweets in european union in britain and the little in because of britain and european law as it doesn't allow the setting view points being expressed on to his a. similarly with ideas of a history about neo nazis, a min uh ukraine, and so for being banned under statute. why do you think your up in britain do this knowing full well it'd be united states which is applying the bulk of the weapons. we'd never think of doing that a very that's, that's a paradox, isn't it? that as you say, the united states is the most forceful, didn't many wise wonder if they create as of the situation that lead to conflict.

usually the same time it has such a vibrant public sphere and debates which were lacking age for your side. and that, that, i mean, it doesn't exist. i think we shouldn't completely dedicated to. i mean, i have an endless discussions here as well. and the people who will not be close down with him not be canceled and will speak out. and you know, so the tide, not just of time do more, but the tide of public opinion will change. so at the moment, because the events have been some shocking, and you know, amongst a whole succession from black, sit on woods, then the depend, demik and economic crisis. and will. so, you know, some of the shows of, onto china then because britain has been sending it's warships. i mean, we're not even talking about the one in 5 involved in britain or the one in for children growing up in poverty right now. at britain has been able to afford his and worship soon as i'm trying to see what they just moved from russia being

a states and 2 of china being evil and the need to i don't know how to succeed. you attack china ro, precipitate wolf or in the south china sea. it's exact, again, it's a continuation. do you know, as you say, as an academic, the way i see it now is that the political west, this is a, a military, political, ideological propaganda. informational network established during the 1st cold war and never be mobilized entirely of to the end of the 1st. caldwell 198991 and now it's sort of back in full flood. but with that, the guardrails and without the, you know, some of the y statesman of the earlier generation of thinking of eisenhower, you know, say what you like about him. he was a great leader, and so was dr. kennedy. today we have leaders to simply do not understand and

then even kissing god, who's coming up to us and you can is hundreds best i think. and who always want for washington's in the west in general, should not be in a similar vein. yes, late in conflict with most going by james, and always try to make sure that washington had the best way relationship with one, then they had with each other and the same as kissing a triangle. and you did the moment this binding administration. and of course, it's with its supporters of blundering into a single attain us conflict with 2 major powers because there was some, this is almost seems deliberate antagonism of publication overtime. well, the, the high level, political visits all of this talk, which goes against if the shanghai community and all the fundamental relationships which was stablished towards the end of the 1st caldwell proposal. richards ok, thank you. the next agent and that set for the show will be back on saturday with

a brand new episode, but until then you can give it to us by the social media. if it's an extensive in your country and had to travel going underground tv, hon, they'll come to watch new and old sense of going undergrad. sees that today? the the, [000:00:00;00] the,

[000:00:00;00] the, when someone tells you who they are, you should believe with the same applies to nato's current. secretary, generally on stilts and or, you know, deal with the washington post. natal isn't practicable, it drives in the brain conflict and that the alliance is anything. the defense

of the, the big images from don't boss of the interim had the guns for public's internal affairs, ministry is among 7, the wounded and the co barbershop law. oh, so this out here, the responsibility for these crimes lies not only with the key of regime but also with those to supply them with weapons brushes and boxes it to the un condemns the west for turning a blind eye to clear that falsities applying heavier weapons used in attacks on them by civilian areas. is it free of election council if turkey announces