the, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk, where all the things are considered on peter roosevelt. when someone tells you who they are, you should believe them. the same applies to nato's current. secretary generally on stilton burr, in an interview with the washington post oldenburg rebuild. nato is in fact a co belligerent in the brain conflict. and that the alliance is anything but defensive.

the, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess. martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator, and in budapest we cross the george samuel. he is a pod cast, read the gag hole, which can be found on youtube and locals or gentleman cross operators. and in fact, that means you can jump any time you want. and i would appreciate it. hi george, and start out with you in budapest, your i guess joseph barrow and self and burger. there are 2 favorites because they're just such a low hanging fruit. they took the mock into a deconstruct and unpack much what they say to the public because no one ever challenges either one of them. and that's why they come out. so fluid. as i said in my introduction, the cell number get an interview with the washington post. let me just read you the 1st question and then the 1st answer, we can kick it out there. so this is that a tory or o has the war, lead nato to recalibrate its defense past you and doctor. this is now stilton burns . we bought,

which is really what amazing the war in your brain has fundamentally changed nato. but you have to remember the word didn't start in 2022, the worst started in 2014. and since then, nato has implemented the biggest reinforcement of our collective defense. since the end of the cold war, the ukraine is not in nature, right. okay, so let's go there and george, which sticks out to me is a 2014. it's just kind of dangling there. what, what is to the, the reader never binds out what 2014 means kick it off towards. well that's exactly right and that's a has, has a introductory question and on so gives you a good sense of what stilton bug is about. he reveals the we've been involved in ukraine ongoing training. the ukraine invoices this 2014 and they have the same time where us to believe that russia launched the unprovoked attack unprovoked.

there was nothing of the 3 seated in the court of a lead the russians to decide to attack. and then he, later on, uh, in an onset to another question. he says, oh um we know major, rudy has 2 tasks and your brain. one is to give everything ukraine uh needs. uh the 2nd is to prevent escalation. um how do we prevent escalation? well, we prevent escalation uh, by declaring that nato is not about the to the conflict. hey, you just said you're going to give everything your grand needs. you know, the body of the conflict by uh, moving boulevard horses, east was right on the rushes borders. so you prevent escalation by escalate to mean, you know, you know, but 0. george rolls 1984 will res piece, ignorance in strength? this is just busy. i mean there are sort of like you just, there's one thing. and then in the next,

when does he go really contradicts himself. but this is what nato is about him and they do declare that we are a defensive alliance. that is why we continue doing the expand of these woods and everywhere. and then we're going to get it thinking more, more and more conscious, but we are a defensive alliance. how, how does that get to be defensive? and it is used to be that nobody ever challenges told them that it goes on nato is regard in the west the media. and paula is to make us up with this somehow. so evidently on the side of good when it is obvious, aggressive war machine ever, you know, i, i think it was twitter of a one point. oh, basically you've had to a vendor rates made. so i can remember things like that. i mean, basically putting it on a pedestal a martin. what's, what's really interesting here again, you know, we shouldn't be surprised that the interviewer or the, the, the watching post editorial board was, didn't challenge him one thing and was just an odd with the pure and simple. but if

you go, it's very interesting. if you look at the entire interview, it's really what's interesting to me is that the whole idea of security is completely missing. because if nato claims to be defensive in terms of security, then by definition or go, others have security as well. this is something there's never recognized by nato. it all good. no one has a security interest. everyone is top hat. there's no, there's no conversation with. and this is the fundamental flaw of this alliance. and this blog, inherently, makes it very dangerous. depends what we see, what's going on in your grand more? yeah, i think that's a fair point, but i think it also raised the question, what the, what is the actually the identity of the race on the desktop updates. so itself is, it's a defense alliance, which in the event of defending a certain area of ground for its members, will actually go to war and put man on the front line i lose lives. i'm do with all

that or is it an alliance which is more i would all your um, i think so. which takes um the situation, the crisis, whatever is right to the very inches away from the abyss and place this game against russia. so the actual, the emphasis is on russia to not escalate this completely most into are still the biggest thing about we, we provide escalation needed quite the opposite. but you know, i understandable journalist and you do talk about some silver fee and i look at this interview as i'm completely psych completely, i'm absolutely certain this interview is not reading interviews and this is why the plum doesn't it. like, i mean there's a huge prolonged of these made talking about 2014 that goes against complete the narrative of what has been pumping out the so wrong. but i think as a cynical jim this, i see this as a, as a scripted interview or be done by e mail permit done by the press department and they so in the press to an answer, somebody on the, on the board,

the washington post. let us give you an old trick of the trade done is can usually support scripted interviews like this a 1000000 miles off. and one of the giveaways is the any journalist of any read experience will tell you that the real genius, the jim nuggets of interview is really introduce the politicians. follow up questions. right? that if you look at this, there are no follow up questions. why not? because it's scripted because it's been written by people, you know, it's not, it's not a real interview. i'm any to put. gentleness was, was, is wait in the library and thoughts. we'll look at 2 or 3 of these really important points to stone bug a supposedly made and follow up with a key question. given the example of his reference to china and russia, these as an interview. you know, next, so doesn't compare to china and russia in terms of minutes. you take a minute to get any jonas wood chip in the and so you look for home when you look

at the bridge countries lining up 19. now, when you look at bricks very rapidly turning into an eastern block and having its own policies as a courtesy is and banking system is only a matter of time before the defense strategy. it kicks in, particularly if the americans, people with this strategy against children. that's exact, but that's exactly the point. george is that if it has nothing to do with defense of anything that i can to see is what, what it is is do maintain and perpetuate the gemini. that's what this is all about . and that's why these very odd references know of nato isn't going to expand into asia, but then it talks about their security interest. we, these are be china and i think that kind of, you know, vague. again, scrambling everybody's head. what are you talking about? and mark me right, is that they will that, that's kind of a segue for a follow up question. i mean, what do you mean by that? it just left, dang, george,

the strip. i'm also going to some interesting the is that you said something like, um and then, you know, even says only 2 members agree that ukraine will be a member of the nature. um, now obviously the members do not agree on this. uh and, and, you know, we've, we've had the wrong care environment as the victor or by him. i think when he said something before, you know, putting out a tweet like just simply with the word want, you know the exclamation point. and then because what's interesting when he says that is remember um, you know, when the age sergeant schultz, another good friend of ours, when he was in moscow a few days before the start, the reference that goes special mother trump, where she says, oh, this is all nonsense, um, no one has any serious plans about bringing ukraine into nature, so which is the lie that it will members agree that you grand will be a member of nato,

something that they are continually repeated in one nato summit. dr. another, the name of your brain will be a member of nato. ringback sergeant shows i remember when michael look full and roddicks of course, getting that debates with the nearest time. is that no, no, no, there was never any serious plan of bringing your brain into 9 to so which is the line one of the statement though, the other has to be aligned, but that's something they do. he just gets away with it by staying late and really observe things over the deceitful things you know, stopping with the, the pledge not wanting to do the east and then the, the goal. well no we, we didn't, we, we didn't really mean that we, we just don't let germany, we went over the rest of this, but we basically moved, made those boat as a 1000 miles. so these is just a dizzying series of lies like this. get away with because there really is no challenge from the median. yeah, the market and the fragment that i that i read of the, the year 2014 again, there's no references. what with the significance of that obviously the reader is

not informed that that was an illegal change of power in, into, of the crew against the legitimate and democratically elected government. but there's also missing is the men's process that's not there whatsoever. you know, george is talking about the different levels of deceit that way of experience and with the we don't have any reference to merkel the alon and what their reference was to the, in the me, none of this a, a journalist, what have you said? well, can you explain then? no, that doesn't happen by that low follow up questions you know, script into it reminds me obviously very much of the, um, the circle white propaganda was the 1980s during the reagan era. you had a lot of articles placed in the washington, but as the new york times, i don't care about the good naples values of the country is something all that great people and how they should value cherish all values. and we have so much and come with zone and you know,

it did it. what was on it was elizabeth in millions dollars spent you know, it's an ice the does the same thing in my own career in yugoslavia. exact rep, unless you nice use, it just goes home on, doesn't it, syria and iraq. i'm not going to stone. you this information to campaign and this, this just trying was with it just for me. this is just an extension of it. could it be? but actually drive by and how to, how did this so if you ever wanted just how close mates. so i'm in washington. uh. or if you ever wanted exactly the role that's required doesn't dates as secretary general. you know, a lot of people just rush him off as america's pocket. look at these talking based taking notes. look at these booking points, sorry. and they just seem to be almost identical to all of the objectives that america is trying to reach. not only in your brain, but in the world, and with him how i mean, giovanna. we shouldn't forget is very conservative and he has

a very conservative nato secretary general that they're both looking back in history, not looking full. they both want an east west coast rule assess where everything is nice and binary, and simplified and we know how to do. i'll do, let me know who are in these uh, me new uh, friends. uh you know, the rest of the 2014. i find absolutely hilarious because you don't expand on that . and the reason why it is always found that because he doesn't want to actually open this kind of rooms where everybody realize i'm going to jump in here, we're gonna open up a lot more cancel. what was the 2nd part of the book? i'm just going to jump in here, we're gonna go to a short break and into that short break. we'll continue our discussion on some real nice thing with our team, the

the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the prospect where all things are considered on peter low. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. the wireless go back to george in budapest, also in the article this something you and i talking about our pod cast very often is a cell number and makes reference to our values get what those values operate and just very unclear to me. i know the word, i can spell the word i recognize the word when i see it when i hear it. but when i hear from these kind of officials, it's just kind of like, you know, little about,

you know, listening to the ocean in the shell. george. yes, the show, the book is a great one with the with talking about the values because it's a, it's one of those words like a, it's a, it's a buzz word that makes people feel good because they want to go as bad because we have barriers where moral with spiritual uh, you know, we cherish freedom, democracy, you know, motherhood, apple pie. they, on the other hand, don't, you know, they said that, you know, down in the dungeon popping the whole things and the only thing and malevolent. oh, it's all the time. so that's what i want, you know, he says these things that the, everyone feels good about the needs. so, and that's really all, you know, this, the major is just this gigantic propaganda machine. i mean they, they how enormous sums of money increasing will these fellowships of all of these things bang, some of these conferences and everyone goes there. they, uh, shower, favors on jo, notice on their favorite journalists. and so when they,

when they go to, uh, you know, these news conferences, they get good seats, they get to ask questions. those or in any way, skeptical of nato, you don't get into that a nato news congress. or if you do, you know me about it. so the back. no one's going to pull you and you know, and any time, any time you ask a challenging question, showed him but you know, fumbles it and he's getting me a rescued by uh, by other journalists. unfortunately he passed. and those ask a question about yugoslavia, which was really exactly somebody i think that was a wonderful russian german listening. got in off the question. obviously they went off script, do they called him and he said, you know where he said made those defensive. you know, what about the other side of you? and he said, oh yes, uh, uh, but you know, that was both arise by the united nations security council. and of course he was in and so you know, things in new york times, man, steven the line goes there. well,

i'm a, my recollection is really politely by recollection is that there was in a un security council resolution or recollection. he knows perfectly well that was yeah, yeah, i know what might be what it was on humanitarian you know we, we did it to save lives. we still need to save genocide and then need moving, moving right along. but that's what happens. i need to be able to show them and this isn't those challenging questions, so he can both take away happily about things that make, make us all feel good. yes, we have values. well, money here in a unique position because you're outside of nato world. i am to you've told us before, but i think is worth reiterating. and when, when you were here in western and visual talk about western values. how does that ring where you are of the religious and very bigoted. um, you know, you, if you're going back in time to a period of colonialism where european powers, you know, look down on the africans and setting that missionaries into the darkest corner of the continents. you know, this idea of values. we need to teach you values. you don't know values,

so we have found his buddies or a commodity like a 40 foot container baked beans. you know, we've got lots of them. you haven't a but let me go back to my point about 2014, but it was cut off from the break, i think still to, but amazingly, he went to this and incredibly admitted in his so called interview, which i'm absolutely certain was, is, was scripted, you know, has to be made references to pulling money ministry $8.00 and to ukraine since 2014 cents when person code was installed in it, whether it was a qu data or whether it was certainly intervention. i mean, you know, it's on question between noon and books about $5000000000.00. the american taxpayers money, 5000000000, not 5000000. and that's an awful lot. so we'll bunting and brochure isn't that, you know, so he doesn't want to actually sort of spotlight on, but his story compared to what's been going on. but it, it certainly makes it a lot of sense. now if, if more people in the west on the states timeline,

then i think it'd be more shots about the, the interview and the references to preventing escalation. you know, also so other preposterous ideas. i mean, the whole idea about this by using is that a lot of people buy and so it is, george mentioned and it is very much considered to be a western notion. and it's already used for full when west to least talk about the new enemies, new people out there who we should be very wary of like the chinese and you know, he makes his reference and which is incredibly paternalistic and indians fee, which i couldn't believe you know, you said, you know, well, we can't really take the chinese seriously because until they recognize that the russia, you know, invited him, you know, the, it's really a way of saying we're never going to work things out with the chinese. i'm going to pull these barriers up because we won't allow imply to, to go back to no mention h as well. well, we can have this rule and we can divide everything and we can pull billions and

billions. it's a 1000000 industrial complexes with corruption, flourishes, and we can get to choose o s o b 's around the world. we want to install, you know, and this thing about china is, is extraordinary because you made a reference to, to a jungle. joe, in your opinion, and i saw joseph burrell, he just recently a few days ago, had a missed his conference in sweden. and he just basically almost cub and copied all of these, talking points of the interview. you know that both politically, from the same party to both from the, from the left, you know, and so it was the some collusion the but, but some jungle show what that stage for the actually really hammer the chinese and stilton back didn't actually pull back from actually say, you know, incredibly, it was only 3 years ago. the stilton boat was talking about the chinese is all new allies as we should be building bridges and bringing them closer to. yeah. bringing them in from the cold that awful spike cliche from the 9 she types is you know, all that was out there. so what has happened to this guy? what time to start the book simple. he's been put into line by point and i never

got the got the memo the, the optimal. it's interesting that what i'm glad that martin is talked about how this was crafted because i think he's absolutely right. but i think the introduction of 2014, without any references, it's the sanitize the history. meaning it's mentioned that we're not gonna explain to because it's on board. and so why should you, you know, another thing, another attempt to sanitize george? what was the question about a republicans income and congress conservatives in general, kind of losing interest in the ukraine paper. and but when he did was which we would have all the expect, it is a, it's by part is it, which again means this is the lead, the say, who cares what the people say, my goodness, we don't need referenda to get in to have a country in the internet though, we the political elite, the, me, the, the, the, me might, these bi coastal lead to me in the american reference there. so, i mean, it was interesting how they kind of use it was an attempt to santa tie,

so many potential questions that a real journalist would actually ask that that's right. and that is the very important that this isn't the lead project, because again, that's a new recall. the few days ago when donald trump was in that the cnn found hold the page. and uh, and then he said, well, good um, you know, my 1st priority would be to bring immediate peace, the ukraine. i'm going to get round round the table. let's show it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. what the statesman would do with a serious political think it will do. and then how did the cable and collins the, the model rate? the reason is it, well i one piece thought, well, don't you want you going to? well, the people who go off to these it right here, we have ask this question to leap audience chair. and you know, this is a republican audience. those, the 0 people on the right. these are you likely from both as they cheer. they

didn't say, hey, what we want to go back to these are wrong, reagan, you know, the kind of the kind of stuff, the republican politicians, mainstreamed, republican, boma digital. all right. all right, go right for they've been ronald reagan, you would have them, you know, you, you know, you to go there and you know, you would have to put in, you know, you, then you better shape up or you'll see what you get. that's, that's not where the public is, the bodies as we did a would. let's bring peace now. and that's true. also in europe. i mean, we just had a pole in the, in germany, overwhelming majority of germans do not love your brain and nature. so shult and bucks as well. oh nato allies agree you agree must be made. so. yeah, but that's, you know, germany, the public opinion said no, we don't want this. and you go to any country in europe and you want us and they said, no, we don't want that. we don't want essentially being, we're being pushed into a war that we don't want by political leaders who have not even been able to spell out what exactly their objectives of you don't mind me. they talking about values.

i suppose one of them would be a democracy, but that means when the parallel speaks someone's 1000 burden speaks, there's such a democracy deficit lean towards his reference to the you know, public opinion. but actually, if you'll get public opinion polls in germany, year after year after the majority of germans, one american troops to leave, okay. they want them up there. so i all the wars, but what 78 years right now. but you know, this isn't the only who sold him right now. he's pointed him out, elected ok. he's not an elected official. you know, he's going to be and we have the same thing with the european commission. these are all the lead driven. and, you know, in the end, public opinion, well, you know, that, that's just a, a moment in time. they always say, doesn't mean. and if you think what means something and to the people that are actually raising this issue, because there are real consequences. these are weights don't have any consequences . i'm sure stilton birds, lifestyle is wonderful. go ahead, man. yeah. and these lead help the clusters don't know. you talked about the

european union over here commission late, so un a one to west autumn bus going of trump. taylor always done standing, please get a go to the new region, a central bank or anything that's not good. all right, so she job go. she said, i'm still the lead students to with all these. um, clusters of is the people sign up to when they have to but you know, you made the point about democracy. i think it stood democrat deficit also with media. you know, george set about john list dealing with nature. yeah. i went to afghanistan in 2007, and refused to have a need to embed and american major lazy, right. like you said, to me over the telephone quotes, she said, honey, you're not going to get much work done. yeah. without one of the 3 that was, that wasn't dates as a way of saying, you know, you're on the imbedded and you sign up to the 5th of all these um,

these various um, things we've arranged for you to see and reports on you know, nothing. and i, so i went by on what i had to do my own thing. but um, it is interesting that journalist reporting on the stilton book entry. if you do some goodly, you would have felt, gentlemen run out of time, but at least we talked about it and i think that's makes and worth watching. ok, i want to take my guess in america and in budapest, one i think our viewers were watching us. here are the scenic some. remember, most stuff was the least russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. most all sense of the,

in the 65 with the keys, 195 and speed. what else holes question about this? even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the rush to day and split the ortiz full, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for the question, did you receive a twist, which is the the business of assisting us can do either speak with key at the washington state,

the bruce, the computer system, the phone, assume that you talk to us giving it to you for the list of over a huge, but they use the the, the big images from don't boss as the interim heads of the guns for publics,

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