a l g area by rights is considered to be a country of martyrs. according to the calculations of historians, the french colonists are responsible for the debts of one and a half 1000000 algerians. the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered on funeral of elk . when someone tells you who they are, you should believe them. the same applies to nato's current. secretary general young stilton for an interview with the washington post. dolton bird reveal nato is in fact

a co belligerent in the brain conflict. and that the alliance is anything but defensive. the, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist, and commentator and in budapest be across the georgia, samuel. he is a pod cast for the geico which can be found on youtube and locals, or gentleman cross offerings, in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i would appreciate it. all right, just start out with you in budapest, your i guess joseph barrow and self and birds are there are 2 favorites because they're just such a low hanging fruit. they took the mock into a deconstruct and unpacked much what they say to the public because no one ever challenges either one of them. and that's why they come out. so who is uh, as i said in my introduction, the cell number get an interview with the washington post. let me just read you the 1st question and then the 1st answer, we can kick it out there. so this is that

a t r o r o has the more lead nature to recalibrate its defense posture and dr. this is the delta embrace we bought, which is really quite amazing. the war and ukraine has fundamentally changed nato. but you have to remember the word didn't start in 2022, the worst started in 2014. and since then, nato has implemented the biggest reinforcement of our collective defense. since the end of the cold war, the ukraine is not in nato, right. okay, so let's go there and george, which sticks out to me is a 2014. it's just kind of dangling there. what, what is to the, the reader never binds out what 2014 means kick it off guard. well that's exactly right and that's a introductory question and on so gives you a good sense of what stilton bug is about. he reveals the we've been involved in ukraine ongoing training. the ukraine invoices this 2014 and they have the same

time where us to believe that russia launch the unprovoked attack unprovoked. there was nothing at all then that preceded it. that could have led the russians to the site to attack. and then he, later on, uh, i need to get an answer to another question. he says, oh um, we don't need to really has to tossed and your brain one is to give everything you grain uh needs. uh, the 2nd is to prevent escalation. um, how do we prevent escalation? what would prevent escalation uh, by declaring that nato is not about the to the conflict that you just said, you're going to give everything your grand needs. you not to bother the conflict by moving boulevard. horses east was right on the rushes borders. so you prevent escalation by an escalated. i mean, you know, you, we don't have

a 0. george roll 1984 war is peace. ignorance is strange. this is just dizzy. i mean, there are still like you just, there's one thing. and then in the next then does, he completely contradicts himself. but this is what nato is about. and they do the glass that we are defensive alliance. that is why we continue to expand these woods and everywhere, and then we're going to get thinking more, more and more conscious. but we are a defensive alliance. how, how does that get to be defensive? and as you say, be that nobody ever challenges those. and then it goes on how nato is regarded in the west, the media and paul is to make us up with this somehow. so evidently on the side of good when it is. busy obvious, aggressive war machine ever? yeah. i think it was twitter of a one point. oh, basically you've had your vendor rates made. so i can remember things like that. i mean, basically putting it on a pedestal a martin. what's, what's really interesting here. again, you know, we shouldn't be surprised that the interviewer or the washington post editorial board was didn't challenge him one thing and was just an object,

the pure and simple. but if you go, it's very interesting. if you look at the entire interview, it's really what's interesting to me is that the whole idea of security is completely missing. because if nato claims to be defensive in terms of security, then by definition or go, others have security as well. this is something is never recognized by nato at all . good. no one has a security interest. everyone is top hat. there's no, there's no conversation with. and this is the fundamental flaw of this alliance. and this plot inherently makes it very dangerous. depends what we see, what's going on in your grand more? yeah, i think that's a fair point, but i think it also raised the question, what the, what is the actually the identity of the race on the desktop of nate? so itself is, is the defense alliance, which in the event of defending a certain area of ground for its members will actually go to war and put man on the

front line. i lose lives and deal with all that. or is it them alliance, which is more, i would all your, i think shop, which takes the situation, the crisis, whatever it is, right to does every inches away from the abyss and place this game against russia. so the actual, the emphasis is on russia to not escalate this completely most into our i'm still the biggest thing about we, we provide escalation. they did quite the opposite, but you know, i understandable journalist and you do talk about some stenography and i look at this interview as i'm completely psych completely, i'm absolutely still to this interview is not reading into you. and this is why the beloved isn't it, like, i mean there's a huge bronze of these made between about 2014, that goes against complete the narrative of um, what has been pumping out for so long. but i think as a cynical journalist, i see this as a, as a scripted interview or be done by

e mail. i'm permit done by the press department of need. so in the press to an answer, somebody on the, on the board, the washington post flip of give you a no to a trick of the trade done is can usually spots scripted interviews like this. i mean, most of one of the giveaways is the any journalist of any read experience will tell you that the real genius, the gym, the nuggets of interview is really to visit petitions or follow up questions. right? that if you look at this, there are no follow up questions. why not? because it's scripted because it's been written by people. you know, it's not, it's not a real interview. i'm a need to put down as was, was, is wait in the library and thoughts will look at 2 or 3 of these really important points. the storybook and supposedly made and follow up with a key question. given the example of his reference to china and russia, these as an interview, you know, nate, so doesn't compare to china and russia in terms of ministry capability, you know,

any jonas would trip in the. and so you look for how long. when you look at the bridge country is lining up 19. now, when you look at bricks very rapidly turning into an eastern book and having its own policies this upcoming season banking system is only a matter of time before the defense strategy. it kicks in, particularly if the americans, people with distrusting against children. that's exact. but that's exactly the point. george is that it has nothing to do with defense, so that anything that i can to see is what, what it is is do maintain and perpetuate the gemini. that's what this, this is all about. and that's why these very odd references, no luck. nato isn't going to expand into asia, but then it talks about their security interest. we, these are be china and i think that kind of, you know, vague. again, scrambling everybody's head. what are you talking about? and martin's right is that they will that, that's kind of a segue for a follow up question. i mean, what do you mean by that? it just left daniel to george?

no, that's read most of us. um it interesting the is that you said something like, um, and i think, you know, even says only 2 members agree that ukraine will be a member of the nature. um, now obviously the members do not agree on this. uh and, and you know, we've, we've had um, on carrier and brian that is the victor or by him. i think when he said something before, you know, putting up a tweet like just send it with the would want exclamation point. and then what's interesting, when he says that is remember the, you know, when the age sergeant schultz, another good friend of ours. when he was in moscow a few days before the start, the breakfast that goes special motor truck where she's at, oh, this is all nonsense. um no one has any serious plans about bringing ukraine into nature. so which is the lie?

the members of reading your brain will be a member of nato, something that they are continually repeated in one of nato. sonya, after another, the name of your brain will be a member of nato or sergeant schultz. i remember when michael mcfall and roddicks of course, getting that debates with the nearest time is that no, no, no, there was never any serious plan or bringing your brain into 9 to so which is the line one. the statement though, the other has to be aligned, but that's something they do. he just gets away with it by staying late and really observe things, obviously deceitful things you know, stopping with the, the pledge not wanting to do the east. and then the, the goal and then we, we didn't, we, we didn't really mean that we, we just don't let germany, we went over the rest of this, but we basically moved nato's boat as a 1000 miles to these is just a dizzying series of lies, like this get away with because there really is no challenge from the media. yeah, the market and the fragment that i that i read of the, the year 2014 again,

there's no reference of what with the significance of that, obviously the reader is not informed that that was an illegal change of power in into, of the coup against the legitimate and democratically elected government. but there's also missing is the men's process that's not there whatsoever. you know, george is talking about the different levels of deceit that way of experience. and with the we don't have any reference to merkel the alone and what their reference was to the me, none of this as a journalist, what have you said? well, can you explain then? no, that doesn't happen by that low follow up questions you know, script into it reminds me obviously very much of the um, the circle, white propaganda of the 1980s during the reagan era. you had a lot of the logic was placed in the washington. but as the new york times, i don't care about the good naples values of the culture of some of that great people and how they value

a. i cherish all values and we have so much and come with zone and you know, it did it. what was on it was a lesbians millions dollars spent, you know, is this an ice but with the same thing in my own career in yugoslavia. exactly. have imagined nice use. it just goes home, doesn't it? syria, iraq, i'm not going to stone. you know, this does this information campaign and this, this just trying was with it just for me, this is just an extension of it. could it be, but actually drive by and how to handle this. so if you ever wanted just how close nato and washington, uh, or if you ever wanted exactly the role that's required or the dates of secretary general, you know, a lot of people just rush him off as america's pocket. look at these talking based taking notes, look at these points, sorry. and they just seem to be almost identical to all of the objectives that america is trying to reach. not only in your brain but in the well. and with him

how i mean, giovanna. we shouldn't forget is very conservative, and he has a very conservative nato secretary general that they're both looking back in history, not looking for they both want an east west code rule assess, so everything is nice and binary and simplified. and we know how to do on to let me know who are in these uh, me, new uh, friends, uh you know, the rest of the 2014. i find absolutely hilarious because you don't expand on that . and the reason why it has always found that because he doesn't want to actually open this kind of williams way, everybody realize i'm going to jump in here. we gotta open up a lot more. cancel. what was the 2nd part of the program? i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break and that's about short break. we'll continue our discussion on some real nice thing with our team. the fastest, certainly as a well as not approved by the groups to, to walk, to continually ensuring

a product and realize ation of their own interest to west not wrong to prosperity and the comb with the government after the war on country. they pass it along to these off to supplies the supposed to be that so the the,

the prospect were all things are considered non peter low. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real names. the right, let's go back to george in budapest, also in the article. that's something you and i talking about are pod cast very often is a southern room makes reference to our values like what those values up or it's just very unclear to me. i know the word, i can spell the word i recognize the word when i see it when i hear it. but what i hear from these kind of officials is just kind of like, you know, little the, you know, listening to the ocean in the shell. george. yes, uh the show, the book is a great one with the, with talking about the values because it's a, it's one of those words like a, it's a, it's a buzz. well, that makes people feel good because they want to go as badly as we have barriers,

way of moral with spiritual uh you know, we cherish freedom, democracy, you know, motherhood, apple pie. they, on the other hand, don't, you know, they said that, you know, down in the dungeon popping the whole things and the only thing and malevolent. oh, it's all the time. so that's what i want. you know, he says these things that the, everyone feels good about the needs of, that's really how you know this. the major is just this gigantic propaganda machine . i mean, they, they saw enormous sums of money creating. will these fellowships of all of these things bang, some of these conferences and everyone goes there. they, uh, shower, favors on jo, notice on their favorite journalists. and so when they, when they go to, uh, you know, these news conferences, they get good seats, they get to ask questions. those or in any way, skeptical of nato, you don't get into a nato news conference. or if you do, you,

you tell me about of the back. no one's going to pull you and you know, and any time, any time you ask a challenging question, showed him but you know, fumbles it and he's getting me a rescued by uh, by other journalists. unfortunately he passed. and those ask a question about yugoslavia, which was really exactly somebody i think that was a wonderful russian jermel is i think got in off the question. obviously they went off script, do they called him and he said, you know where he said made those defensive. you know, what about the other side of you? and he said, oh yes, uh, uh, but you know, that was both arise by the united nations security council. and of course he was in . and so, you know, things in new york times, man, steven the line goes there. well, i'm a, my recollection is really politely by recollection is that that was in a un security council resolution or recollection. he knows perfectly well that was yeah, no one maybe what it was on humanitarian, you know we, we did it to save lives because they need to save genocide and then need moving, moving right along. but that's what happens. i need to be able to show them and

this isn't those challenging questions. so he can both take away happily about things that make, make us all feel good. yes, we have values. well, my new year, the unique position because you're outside of nature world. i am to what you've told us before, but i think is worth reiterating. and when, when you were here in western and visual talk about western values, how does that ring where you are of the religious and very bigoted. um, you know, you, if you're going back in time to a period of colonialism where european powers, you know, look down on the africans and sent the missionaries into the darkest corner of the continents. you know, this idea of values. we need to teach you values. you don't know values, so we have found his buddies or a commodity like a 40 foot container baked beans. you know, we've got lots of them. you haven't a but let me go back to my point about 2014, but it was cut off from the break, i think still do. but amazingly,

he went to this and incredibly admitted in his so called interview, which i'm absolutely certain was, is, was scripted, you know, has to be made references to pulling money ministry agency ukraine since 2014 cents when person code was installed in it. whether it was a qu data or whether it was certainly intervention, i mean, you know, it is unquestionable between noon and books about $5000000000.00 of american taxpayers, money. 5000000000, not 5000000. i mean, it's an awful lot, so we'll bunting and brochure isn't that, you know, so he doesn't want to actually sort of spotlight on his story compared to what's been going on. but it, it certainly makes a lot of sense. now if, if more people in the west some of the students timeline, then i think i'd be more shopped about the, the interview and the references to preventing escalation. um, you know, all sorts of other preposterous ideas. i mean, the whole idea about this value thing is that a lot of people buy and so it is, george mentioned, and it is very much considered to be

a western notion. and it's already used for full when west to least talk about the new enemies, new people out there who we should be very wary of like the chinese and you know, he makes his reference and which is incredibly paternalistic and indians fee, which i couldn't believe you know, you said, you know, well, we can't really take the chinese seriously because until they recognize that the russia, you know, invited him, you know, the, it's really a way of saying we're never going to work things out with the chinese. we're going to pull the barriers up because we want along with bite and to go back to no mention h as well. well, we can have this rule and we can divide everything and we can pull billions and billions and symmetry industrial complexes with corruption, flourishes. and we can get to choose o s o b 's around the world. we want to install, you know, and this thing about china is, is extraordinary because you made a reference to, to a jungle joe. in the european union such as a bro, he just recently a few days ago, had

a missed his conference in sweden. and he just basically almost cub and copied all of these, talking points of the interview. you know that both politically, from the same party to both from the, from the left, you know, and so it was the some collusion the but, but some jungle show what that stage for the actually really hammer the chinese and stilton back didn't actually pull back from actually say, you know, incredibly, it was only 3 years ago. the stilton bug was talking about, the chinese is all new. otherwise there's that we should be building bridges and bringing them closer to, you know, bringing them. ready from the cold, that awful spite appreciate from the nice she types is you know, all that was out there. so what has happened to this guy? what time to start the book simple. he's been put into line by point and i never got the got the memo the, the optimal. it's interesting that what i'm glad that martin is talked about how this was crafted because i think he's absolutely right. but i think the introduction of 2014, without any references,

it's the sanitize the history. meaning it's meant we're not going to explain to because it's on board. and so why should you, you know, another thing, another attempt to sanitize george was the question about a republicans in college and congress conservatives in general kind of losing interest in the ukraine paper. and but when he did was which we would have all the expect, it is a, it's by part is it, which again means this is the lead, the say, who cares what the people say, my goodness, we don't need referenda to get in to have a country in the internet though, we the political elite, the, me, the, the, the, me might, these bi coastal lead to me in the american reference there. so, i mean, it was interesting how they kind of use it was an attempt to santa tie so many potential questions that a real journalist would actually ask that that's right. and it is very important that this isn't the lead project because of the game. that's

a you recall the few days ago when donald trump was in, that's a cnn town old. the bait. and uh, and then he said, well, good um, you know, my 1st priority would be to bring immediate peace to ukraine. i'm going to get round round the table. let's show it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. what the statesman would do with a serious political think it will do. and then how did the cable and collins the the model rate the response? well, don't you want you going to when is it? well, i one piece, but do you want ukraine to win? and that's, that's just a, that's the, the, the mentality of the people who go off to these uh, just sold them the newest golf. the dog says that they may be trump, is watching us, or maybe people around him. but on this program with my honored guest right here, we have asked this question over and over again. what is the objective winning or losing your peace and true god? it's bought. all right. yeah, exactly. so yeah,

he said exactly what you're supposed to say, and that is public opinion. i'm a relatively podiums chair. you know, this is a republican audience. those is, you know, people on the right these are you likely from both as a kid. they didn't say, hey, what we want to go back to these are wrong, reagan, you know, the kind of the kind of stuff, the republican politicians, mainstreamed, republican politicians around all reg or i could have been ronald reagan. he would have them, you know, you, you know, you know, if it's a good, a whole and you know, you would have to put, and, you know, you, then you bet a shape up or you'll see what you get. that's, that's not where the public is. the bodies as we did a with that's bring peace now, and that's true also in your, i mean we can just set a pole in the, in germany, overwhelming majority of germans do not want ukraine in later session, open box as well. oh, nato allies agree you agree must be made. so. yeah, but that's, you know, germany, the public opinion said no, we don't want others. and you go to any country in europe and you ask them as a no,

we don't want that. we don't want essentially being, we're being pushed into a rule that we don't want by political leaders who have not even been able to spell out what exactly their objectives a you don't mind me. they talking about values. i suppose one of them would be a democracy, but the mean when the burrell speaks someone's cells and burden speaks, there's such a democracy deficit, plain sporting says, reference to that, you know, public opinion. but actually, if you look at public opinion polls in germany, year after year, i think the majority of germans, one american troops to leave, okay. they want them up there. so i all the wars, you know, you made the point about democracy, i think was the democratic deficit, will say with media, you know, george set about john list dealing with nature. yeah. i went to afghanistan in 2007, and refused to have a need to embed and american major lazy, right. like you said to me over the telephone quote. so she said, honey,

you're not going to get much work done here without one of the 3 that was, that wasn't dates as way as a, you know, you're on the embed it and you sign up to the 5th of all these, um, these various um, things we've arranged for you to see and reports on you know nothing. and i saw i went by on why i had to do my own thing. but um, it is interesting that journalist reporting on the stilton book entry, if you do some goodly, you will flow. gentlemen, running at a time, but at least we talked about it and i think that's make some worth watching. ok, i want to take my guess in america and in budapest, when i think our viewers were watching us, here are the scenic some. remember, i'll stop rules the

least return to the russian states. never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. most all sense enough in the system must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on russia scooting and split the ortiz full neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube the payment services for the question, did you say a request, which is the

willing of the a sofa to, to, to do it. you know, cranium, daugherty, a surname? yeah, i did. she shipped a doctor. mean i'd ship for the control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get the system really being you have enough, the lots and lots of lots and lots of i'm assuming, yeah, we did the boom cloud. so it's actually, it's tim jeff dark news, but i'll let you as well, but on their own crazy, if that's all there is don't motor, they must solve then. but just do you still know? sadly, if she ever always gives us, what are we shipping that just stick with a lift or slip that came over to them? i need to use the closest that you put in school so that i can use a when they each of them or not. somebody's going, so i'm saying yes,

i see the best way to take a picture of i'll go with the the straight face of the the, the welcome to was a part the last to digits. have seen many world shaking events. there was 911 and the 2 war on terror done. there was the 2008 financial crisis. the error of spring out, of course, because it's 19 pandemic could be year of 2022. as my guest today

suggests. being just as if not more jo, politically,