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welcome to was a part of the last to digits, have seen many world shaking events. there was 911 and the 2 war on terror done. there was the 2008 financial crisis. the error of spring out, of course, because at 19 pandemic code, the year of 2022 as my guest today suggests being just as if not more jo politically, seismic we'll discuss it. i'm now joined by a bag. grab executive dean of the trunk, young institute for financial studies. dr. brown is good to see your again and

thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us. thank you. thank you for the video and that back. good to see again. now i interviewed you about a year ago when the warranty ukraine was still in its early stages and the world was trying to make sense of it and adjust to a fast changing reality. and these have reasons things um that uh, the global significance of 2022 has been grossly underestimated that in fact, it may be more consequential than some of the valve. as i mentioned in my introduction, what makes it so significant then you'll view. well, when we have talked about the september 11th all the to solve the a financial crisis, we also improve the track of an american st. treat uh, what would view, what happened in the 2000 does pending to, as i said, this uh, breaking the international order of american centuries. and so the sum of stems not

only found that you can crisis, but also a from debt collect p for a weakening of the now the western world. and they are attempting to break away from the international system dominated by the us. so i think that i think that the us is deal of the most powerful country in the world, but it has to be an immediate that that's the what would the process of the regional integration and the, the americanization is a fairly good in the middle east. central east, south africa asi, more epic. so i think that you can explain the important reason why you only 15 percent of the countries choose to follow the us to 2nd washer. so from this perspective, i think that the global, so you can, you can talk 2022 is that this is likely to be the beginning of year, beginning year of the end of the us key germany. now looking back and he mentioned that a number of interesting points that i want to pursue. but before we do that,

in one of your articles, you wrote that 2001 that you can only be compared to 1991 when the cold war and this, this is rather paradox, it go because in 2022, a war began a war that still has no ends inside and aware that the sats all the same old a pair of adversaries roster versus the collective west. what makes 19912022 resonate a so much for you? well i send you, well really my article, i think the, the 19 on 91 is the beginning of the postal code of. ready ever and the truth on 22 is the end of the opposed to code of will i ever. so in a pastor of 30 years, a world a centered to on that you at the state that has had the interest over yet is the thought open the pool. i opened the focus of to watch, for example,

when you as was at packing to 1000 to one, the load, a scene cause eyes to res, and as a policy to united states and the tools on the 8 the ideas they stop, a financial crises and a would help the united states and then but, but, but now the, the error of the u. s. lead. actually, germany is coming to an end technique. the 2022 cars. a roger is opposing the usb germany in the radical way, while the outer leaking so i also a quietly seeking independent to the government, trying to can read all to us, could you? so i think that's why i think the 2022 is not just the war, but also a cause that people action against a global hegemony. and if the poster code or what and what captain lies the by the us key, gemini, s come to an end. i don't know if you would agree with me,

but i think we are all partially guilty for sustaining that had germany because a re service, the american of interest sometimes to the detriment of the our own national goals and inspirations. but uh, the years 1991 was of course the year of the sort of the gold in the year of american dominance when its reputation was riding high among many powers. and i wonder if you look back over the last 3 decades, when the united states really have a historic chance of being a genuine leader of humanity, or rather than these few though over the lower that the at least it seems to us right now, what you're seeing where some of the most significant missteps or miscalculations by the west and the leaves that lead to the current loss of influence. yeah, yes, i agree with you. i. the rest of the leads are indeed a selfish and

a cell for centers. and they are blindly confident, even the advocate they miss p could be that's what would of history ends on the model created by the west for the fact in many countries in the world, including china, once believe in west and beats. and even though i believe you called at the west, was indeed the future over the world. but it probably knew that this very p p for them that in the past. at 1st, he has a way to have not to provide a real popular groups to, to walked in a position to continue to expand, showing the profit and realization of their own interest at the west. a has not brought a piece across patty and the common, the development of the world on country the has the, brought the, the valve to was the kweisi as opposed to greece and so on. so as long as the west to respect some of the congress with the load would not be so bad. so therefore,

in past 30 years, out of countries in the world has up gradually begun to wake up assets at a seat. they already brought them to pass. now, um, chinese are famous for taking a longer view of history and knowing, enduring and beyond the last couple of years. and i think most economists agree, the center of economic development do tend to shift from one place to the next, then never stagnant the, despite the whatever francis fukuyama may have wished for, you know, and that has been historic reality over several centuries. now this shift towards asia, the shift of power, the shift of economic development was really a par and for many years, why do you think that americans are trying to find that process instead of, you know, trying to salvage whatever power and privilege they, they, they may yeah, i, i, the, i have the communicator, we use

a professor of process focusing on mass. you'll mentioned that many times in the, in the past 10 years in fact took his views are also changing. he has a girl dis, illusion to resemble consistency, usually. den, yes, he's crazy, some of them outcome particularly battery by that. and if you believe without the united states is no longer role model for what is this is because i, we see in my opinion america, i paid to coal street to our shop side to advocate. they don't pay attention to lending from the history and they don't pay attention to them. for others. they always seem to that they are the stand at all for advocacy. so you fact, as a, you mentioned to the history what i want to say that you know past in nearly a 5 a 1000 a years, all history in china, there has been more than 10 people dennis apiece, and a more than $400.00 and pious affinity and the lessons of the goals at benefit the

changes can be found in the united states now, such as internal collapse here next to no expansion, leave to add things economical, weakness, and a people separately. but at present, it seems that the united states would still be that important, even near future for us as an empire, as has to be tied. and it has no power to say if it's fate that we will eventually end it to germany. now i want to shift gears a little bit and ask you about the presence of china who recently visit as most cuz you know, and when he was parting ways with why them includes him. he was a fail telling him that our 2 countries are now driving the changes of the likes of which the world hasn't seen in 110 years and his russian counterparts about him. if we didn't seem to agree with the ad sending analyst on a guessing game, what the 2 liters, ma'am, what's your take on that piece of the so called

a great change years. i'm see know, century is adjustment to on the field dropped a was a 1st proposed by the process. you can see in 2017. i also know the best i said in a book, the chinese, a 100 years off of change. and, and a lot of focus, a lot of the scholars have, you know, a pre between the, to the wrong, the truth on this searching china, we'll become, to load the largest economy and ending the standards of the us as a logic. so economy for more than $100.00? yes. and more importantly, the what would have dominique and a by the way, i say that it's becoming more a multi part and the north atlantic is no longer defend to the world. the dominance or the west has come to an end end of the now western world is rising collectively . so i think the from the economics to politics found the technology to culture of

value. many if you know mean is happening in the world that have never happened the past, the walk 100. yes. so i try, i seem to tanya, people why we think about the 100 years of change. because of we are actually in color. we can all watch out for to adopt that the changes promoting no, you know, reason and a beacon contribution. so i think this is a, well, we want to do a batter. now your role before the visa view westernization of global politics will be accompanied by the the, the low rise ation of global trade and the, the americanization of technology. and we can see it already happening. the share of the year is dohler in international reserve. assets is now at the lowest points since world war 2. it's technological address being rivaled by many countries, including china and i. when i use this opportunity jan, ask you as a, as a problem to china as color. what are some of the ways that the chinese one don't

want to emulate americans? and as you expanded the use of the you on, in global trade, as you are sharpening your, uh, no logical capacities. what are the things that are to be, you know, emulated and i appreciate it, and what are some of the things that need to go away from international politics the uh, in the, in the future we, we really, uh, in uh, the rest and as ations, the ad and its, and thoughtful that china uh, try our best to, to do, uh, my, to come to be with the wolf and also, you know, future, we try our best to, to promote the natural department as well as the, uh, what were the peaks. so now we do uh, standing up very uncertainty conditions. so uh for that to i think full time eats a week, what we can do a batch that to my, our, to our sales, uh, best and,

and then i sold the domestic uh property. so as soon as possible and the child best to, to contribute to the quote, well, if he can treat the other is uh, the way you want to be treating that. i think that's called the golden rule. uh and pretty much at every religion that that's the way to peace, but for now it's up to right and we need to pay the way to a little break. we will be back in just a few moments stage and the got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is on. often has very dramatic only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk

the back towards the porch with bank defense executive dean of the tongue. young institute or financial studies. a doctor when you have a recent before the china is not alone pursuing uh its own path uh to development in fact is joined by most known of western countries. and you mentioned latin america in particular, when more and more countries are opting for, left leaning governments, but it's a very different last from the one represented by the democrats in the united states. what's the, the main difference was the main distinction between this new last ascending all over the world in latin america, in africa, in china, i would argue,

and russia as well. i'm the old laptops in power in washington. i think the last year when i a load an article about the west and are they sure it's really a low step way to even ask, you know, because it's and also i think that to nowadays, so it's already a consensus that toward a so jenny, to 10 left and the to the left, which put more emphasis on the national poa and a emphasizes to expand these throughout the van freedom. but however, i found a graduate, that's a new laptop lacking america in the south africa, as i mentioned. and, and the overlap to in the power in the united states, aust, fundamentally to type of people. although they or, and besides the rise of a national call with a new and a half to lie and allow the american and south africa. and emphasize at least back to the office, doing

a good job for the bite and sale 1st. and then the infringing awards and overlap to empower in the united states of benches. i step out of changing walter's books to edit using change the world to solve their own. i don't have to comment. so i think this is a main lease on the end of the ideological volunteer. why i got these, these are all from the god of china and roger. and so it's difficult. it's difficult balls. yeah. all domestic partners. and what i find very interesting is that china is also framing that in terms of human rights. but instead of emphasizing the supremacy of the individual as many individual wealth and capital b, the emphasis is food on people's ride to basic needs and that ride to development, the right to happiness if you will. but there is a somewhat different balance between the, the rice and the needs of the individual and the collective given the income gaps, poverty levels in western countries are also on the increase. do you think these

kind of find framing of human rights or these kind of approach to development um could inspire anyone in the west? yeah, i, i think that the, the logic of the free competition and the supremacy of wells and the capital was somewhat to go grassy for 20 or 30 years ago. but now people see that to the larger, off uh for you competition. and so pre mercy also, we also had the categories, but using more and more social uh, e books in china has. and then from the beginning of the western social competence, that's why up, over the past 10 years, the china has achieved with the success of the promotion, the social policy against the over the pollution, conduction and crises. and the china point of view, a balance between the social security and economic goose,

the birth economic groups, and the social security and age. not only for captain, a warehouse, an interest off the mito after class. he's also shoot that to us the bible. the beetle in lieu of coffee, if necessary for the west to lead on the stand to china and in the event china social governance experience. now, china is uh, showing some new approaches not only in economy or governance, but also thing in, in, in the world of diplomacy is become far more proactive on the international stage. is not only broad, the saudis, and the iranians to the negotiating table. but actually facilitate the live floods . diplomatic reconciliation between this 2 former anatomy is something that no one serious and no one thought was possible. what's um, what's the china secret here? because, um, i mean, everywhere. all analysts, i know, even here in russia,

we're absolutely shocked by the news when they got it. as a china, as we all know, the china, it's a promote whole piece and the computer to the documents in the past of 40 years to and it is only the country that has not licensed all participating in the world. at the same time. china is also enjoying the defeated salt water peaks and the china is different from the mac, the happiest days in joining the tv that. so what you know, what the mo looks and the complex break out into what? the more, the american we will benefit for china, china prefer a water piece. so i believe that to the world has seen china is a pretty peaceful image. i saw the out of that you learn. you mentioned also a, b, e met china, peaceful cmt. a china does nothing to promote the so called an offshore palace, estrada each. now we don't want to know how stream pipeline, non, we'll eat,

engaging stacking to overflow as it comes with an agent on the country. china hosts to promote regional recalls through the show me, i know you can on the construction piece of why china is working hard to promote of that. because the ation between us all the out of any long and it'll be cost, jumped on rebecca afghanistan. so in fact, we also corporate into the washer and to ukraine. we want to reconcile these negotiations between the iranians and the solid. is facilitated by china were kept in secret, no leaks, no speculations, which is very unusual. and is the nature of the so called megaphone diplomacy when sensitive details uh, linked to media for immediate impact, which i'm sure with agree with me makes diplomacy not only in the factor, but pretty much impossible. i wonder if this discretion is specifically at china is feature of given the sort of the demonstrated success of such a pros, dressing if can come back into fashion in the, in the world of diplomacy. again, a uh, extra ice thing uh, many times a we need

a test payment to national governance as well as that diplomacy. the papa has to be supposed to be and it has a live linmore alt to the accomplishment that's on the other hand, the format he ca, transparency is not good at this and desirable is fascinating. the faith of major compare compacts foreign policy division. i think it is necessary for the country to keep a certain count over secrecy, so as not to be in france, advisor unnecessarily. not professional, probably copy. so i'm not sure whether the so called a close dollar diplomacy has become a popular mass of the old fashion. they depend on the actual effect. i think the close don't oppose it to a bad to cause these uh, the, uh, these possible approach to create a policy policy. now the most fascinating aspect of this whole development for me

is this is the position of saudi arabia, which normally still an american ally. and yet it's far more engaged both economically and politically, with china, into some extensive and russia then that the washington, what do you think made it possible for re, uh to pursue that own past this little if any consideration for whatever washington has to say. it is, but if i was told you, i would see you that sorted out of it has been deceived by the us for so many years . so the out of this, you're enjoying the peace, 40 environment in middle east and continue to develop. but the us has used all show balancing method for more than half a century to create charles and that is all the middle east, which in turn, a make middle eastern country, depend on that. he states police,

this is an important protect the some awful last and really some diplomacy for not all sorted algebra. if we can knock those, he says good 6 email pinning the you as it should have respect as those regional countries. and not only, not just to treat them as a tools or even jump to a beautiful, beautiful accept such a net key. and i need a way you, when you're not in use, any use h to wipe your mouth when a tissue. well, it's a very conspicuous matter for, as i think it's not yet inspiring for our labors in ukraine who remain in a very close relationship with the united states. to the extent that the, that own country has been sacrifice for the sake of the fighting russia. now, as i'm sure, you know, many people in russia were inspired by china appointing its own algoy for the

conflict in your brain. perhaps trying to build on its own diplomatic success on the middle eastern front. but i wonder how this appointment was received in, in he does china have enough weight enough influence enough credibility with the ukrainian with the current ukrainian authority to produce any change uh on that front. uh i think that the uh to my altima honest the, uh uh like how say that the, the washer is all what bear review uh, sent about but also uh your queen is uh trying to assess direct deposit to the uh, in the, in a long time we have a very good ship and a corporation we for last year as well as we uh, reset your creek. so that's why i think that the china chow pass to to uh

to a weight there because the ation between russia and uh and the yuki uh for, for you queen, i think uh china, we're not home the queen and left it along the sea for oh, you can kind of see you going to check that as a roster and it and be at the time. so try to loans you agree economy to, to cover. and china is also leading to the best you create and participate in the construction of your queen's chart structure. so i really hope that you'll create a rush or a 10 minute install piece and to reduce depth test. so i think we are most of the chinese people we uh press uh you agree, but also perhaps last year now last year you described ukraine as, uh, having the body of a strong man and the fate of a servant girl. and i think perhaps that was too up to mistake because ukraine at

this point of time uh is in the far reimburse situation. the country is hob, destroyed a quarter of the population left. the country um the infrastructure is ruined. and the big question is, who is going to uh, rebuild your criminal help its rebuild? because obviously it does not have enough resources. do you think this is something that china could use as, let's say, not as it's in taishan, but it's something that could really attract the ukrainian leadership because of the americans and the, the, the europeans may talk about their supports for ukraine, but it's still pretty unclear whether they want to fund the rebuilding of the country what's, what's your view on that front? yeah, i, i always, uh, i think that to the comments is situation. your queen is a historical tragedy. you, queen is

a wonderful country. we've allowed just the land every unit, and then you can use a population then some on the top 5 in europe. and then you can, you should have be a big country in your back, but it's very peaceful. your queen debts, you increase the strategy in a past the 30 years has not shipped the independent or spend the all 5 regional power on a country. you know, queen has always been waiting to be a vessel off in europe, and the united states has to go to us. so your queen has a tend to, to, to west and most of the time. but it has not brought to you. you cannot be a cruise and a national spencer on a country your queen has become to pull her used to country you. so that's why i sincerely hope that your queen can at least track only itself. i grew up at the

wrong, the less and more the history of the con, the reach between eastern and western secret ivy. instead of being attached to a certain, i mean, you treat group and to be coming the pool full band and see how the effects dr. ivank has been great pleasure talking to you. thank you very much for that. thank you. thank you so much. and thank you for watching. i hope to see her again. and was a part of the or the

south africa, as president announces the 6 of the continents leaders will travel to most go and kids to help work the solution to the ukraine conflict. ukraine's intelligence chief instead of has a sound from the age of the russian civilians who would not insult in the military . conflicts with 2 l's. the down on the confession coming off to have promised to keep telling russians all over the world for chief of the south african army, but it's mostly, if it stays on the us and back trucks wanted small taxes. they said that the country seek for they provided us to russia and the use of pin 12 as the other claims of donald trump's collusion with russia and american pulse. the case it reveals that the s p i investigated the mass of based on insufficient.