the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i'm peter live out . they chose approach towards ukraine is full of contradictions. we are told a win for russia is a defeat for the west. but ukraine is not a member of the military alliance were told, nato is not part of the complex, but it is been supporting kevin with hurley since 2014. nato says he wants russian

to be defeated, but it says nothing about peace. the processing nato's illusions, i'm joined by my gifts, carl and nixon in washington. he's a political analyst and weird thing. we have anthony webber d as an independent political commentator. and in london we crossed to the income my 10 day. he is a visiting lecturer at the law school with the university of westminster hard gentleman comstock rules that affect that means it can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let's go to the ink and london 1st here. i'm, you know, i'm in my introduction. you on the last sentence, i talk about the word piece. this is something that we were watching this conflict in ukraine. nato never was. it mentions of word peace doesn't want to strive for peace. it wants a defeat of one country, and that is russia here, that is a fundamental flaw of the strategy. but nato has nato doesn't think about security

. it doesn't thing deal politically. it thinks ideologically, in a neo liberal way, and this is why it's turned in such into such a mess for the, for the continent. and the consequences are far, far reaching. the military conflict in ukraine will come to an end one day with the implications in the u. m. vacations. what nato is done will be with us for a very long time. go ahead and london as well. yes, i think uh, this has been printed in uh, my uh, writings and comments resolved on the matter. i think it's clear that it's a, you know, nate's always, obviously an extension of us for employees. and us foreign policy in the sense it's been infiltrated by those who profess the to be part of this neil concert, we can find the all it does not seem that's um uh the, the idea of, uh, control we see comes into the vocabulary. i think they,

they received the world as being a way that old costs arena and that's, it's one in which people must be subdued based. absolutely no room for discussion. and that's why we have this uh, a sleep charles, decades long. a probably see of a full made say covert to those that was include made to that imposing the resume of sanctions on, on different nation states. and i think it's, that's very fast because it's, it provides a very unfortunate impediments in terms of etc. a mutual security and co existence for all right. and you get all the freedom of trade and you go back to lex. yeah, it's, it's very interesting. garland, i mean, it was, it was codified in the mid seventies with the helsinki process, a be indivisibility of security. meaning everybody, you can,

you can aggregate security towards yourself at the expense of another state. and so that's why we have the term in the visibility of security and they went along with it. it worked think that at the height of the cold war, that is, as we heard from our guest in london, you know, even considering that, considering the term diplomacy, negotiation means compromise. and compromise is a dirty work for these people. garland in washington. yes, because what we're looking at is a, a group of individuals who talk about a us led law at times. they mentioned it as the us led war uh, order. and other times they refer to it as the rules based international order. but it simply means usaa gemini, and the contradiction we have now is that the, the us empire has to talk to the world with a cover story of a, you know, with, of, of, of acting in the best interest of all of trying to maintain an order that's in the best interest of all. however, this

a so called order has to be imposed on the world you inc, using color as it means. so if this order must be input posts on the, on the world, then it's, it's clear that by its very nature, it is a gressick and, and course of nature. and that's what going on right now. and the, the, the, the allies or baffles or colonies of the us empire are paying the price they're being sacrificed. so they all through this world where they have their sacrificing, they are very good friends, the and, and, and their scan regard for ukrainians. that's what's really ironic about anthony what, what, what is very interesting as well as the nato says, constantly, and there was an interview with felton bern more with the washington post. a few days ago, natal doesn't want to escalate, but that's all nato does, is escalate. you know, at one point, you know, a certain kind of tanks were, were not allowed. now they were there. now these long range missiles primarily come to him in the u. k. in the us, almost always most likely follow the u. k. 's lead here. they constantly escalate,

though they claim that they do not want to do that. again, the nato is, are well in, in nature, go ahead and were they? so, yeah, so the, your, what the site is, let me find some best way not successful for. ready pace in fact, right. uh, i put a year ago, 1st on some one drive it to the crane. sculpus the uh, pending base, stale for trade and the crate. i'm not sure. i'm, since i'm hundreds of thousands of pounds or casualties. a baby many movie channels . uh, best buy more like a of uh, a hold of you trying to get because of the continued coverage. and the supply of this heavy wiper rate is actually the assessor because it's a software we installed in the u. k. r. with these rapids we were getting ready to fight as button 5 over the summer,

the way the white 3 waves are killed and injured the civilians in the east. and he cried. major cool saw fights. it's become positive. russia, i think what is missing, it will lift the ac, is that staying nice, right? countries are not. i say in the past the interests are bad. mood is on the logic king government, which has stopped at this policy and intervening. ready the crime coming for it to die well has got absolutely no land a problem. i stop like to tell you that. so. ready that they and uh, the speed, amazing time age strong to the but you should call them 8 the debates about the u. k. government's your kind of russian policies and uh, its excessive uh, we were talking about uh,

disclosed mother tree age site. the fall of, well, uh 5 by the year. but we don't know what the on disgraced aside stories, but we will see beats of low cats. um, what is the damage to you? k farm policy by means of a new crane. because we seen the reducing fluids, which is isaac king, who is guessing in the well uh, because of this policy. and we seen that, but its full structure to become more close to our told me just trying to under cause we have to look how it was. oh um. what are they adults in common with the crime because they, they told me that they are defending sycold of all these are democratic values, but we, we not as i just shot down opposition policies, i shot down a position media and i've even shot throw me off of the church. well i and anthony on top of it,

it looks like they're going to cancel the next round of elections in the country. okay. you know, western values here. ok, let's go back to under the inca in, in london. i, you know, one of the things that prep products is me so much here is a, how is this really, in fact helping ukraine. you have millions and millions of people of fled the country. the country is g, d p is in a free fall, industrial capacity is almost 0 and they're, they're basically a welfare state or a, a client state of the west right now, i can see how this great effort to save you cream is actually doing anything for the ukrainian people and again, like i said already in this program, this conflict will en one day, but what will be left of the country go ahead in london? will most likely read credit is going to be the same, but it's obviously clear of its uh, the interest of the ukrainian people. i know how to parts of finding out about how

that how by the, the american, the lions snobs. so how i called by the ukranian leads themselves to plunder pills from the economy. that was the modus operandi right from this right from the beginning. it's always had an issue with corruption. i certainly off the 2014, to day to rather than the resolution of dignity was approve a tall. you had the, you know, the, the victory was always predicted. but the american, the almost uh, optimism and the corporate power would infiltrate ukraine. to give me my shop treatments and exploit that culture. so we know, right, sorry, not with standing, the will. that is happening in the dumbass. you have

a situation where ukraine's been calling me has been totally, you know, has been considered really degraded and salty pride despite this suppose idea that ukraine wants to become more of the more modern, more west. and it's actually this actually regrets. the nice thing this uh, a particular phase of the call because it is a phase in, starts in february of 19 of 2022. and so it's been an ongoing high repo river ministries. i've mentioned with an economic time making sure that any information on diamond should, unfortunately, each of the strands have not helped to crate out by really, solely affecting to intimidate russia, put in the 9th to the jobs literally of russia. you're not doing any favorites to that country, we're using a full that ro. similarly, when he comes to a, the economics solving is all about beginning about plunder as the one developments

of both states. this new phase of a special miniature ration of the russian intervention as being the introduction is that the likes of black rock is ro, essentially only be the well i well, i'm going to go to our break gentleman, but i think hunter biting was the, you know, he was a, he led the path, you know, he created, he was a play, a trailblazer for all of this. you gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break,

we'll continue our discussion on nato's illusions. and stay with our to the, [000:00:00;00]

the a rolling of the a sober tv toys, you know, cream daugherty, a surname. yeah, i did. she shipped a dr. lee. nice report. the control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get the mobile device to access the app and you have enough people not to say websites, products, and stuff. i'm assuming, yeah, we did the boom cloud. so essentially it's streams uh, fox news, but i'll let you drive both on the, on their own crazy if that's where you store lot of the my software, but just go to, you store no satellite. if she ever always gives us, what are we shipping stuff just figured for a lift or slip that came over to them. i need deals says that you are in school,

so that's good news. i use only for each of them. for couple years you're not to buy these fools, clicked the button. so i'm saying yes i see the. busy nestle take a picture of, i'll go dump it over the dice so that i'm not the, the welcome back to the prospect for all things are considered on peter level. to remind you we're discussing nato is the illusions the ok. let's go back to garland and watch it, and if there's only if there's a silver lining in all of this, garland, this really dreadful situation is that nato has taken it upon itself to say this is ex, essential, it's to be or not to be. well, i'll take those odds. ok, i mean, if it's all in on ukraine,

that's what going to make or break you. nato. i'll take that back. okay. and it's, and they've made this craving choice. we didn't have to do it okay with ukraine is of no strategic value whatsoever to the european union at all. okay. but they made it that way. so they mon garland as well. and what, what you've, i just identified is that the, the, the, the security, the necessities and needs of the european union do not align with the us empire, who are their political and you know, economic masters. so we have a contradiction between the leaders and those that are led. certainly to be quite frank, it's obvious that russia's security needs aligns quite well with the european security needs. they have a border, they have trade, etc. the united states looks at it from a geo political perspective. how does the maintain power over both europe and russia? so part of the dynamic guy here, unfortunately, to the european union

a can't and won't address, is that part of what the us empire is doing is, is to putting, is to ensure that you are in a position where they can't challenge the us on the world. stage economically, and they can't push back either diplomatically or politically they have to do with their told even though it's not in their best interest. and to me that's to be dynamic as, as exposed by the north stream that it would seem bombing. yeah, yeah. which, you know, they, they, they couldn't find it in the united states. i can find pensioners with walkers and a wheelchair that were close to the capital on january 6th. but they don't know who blow up the north stream pipelines. i think that's kind of interesting here. anthony chang saying with it with something the garland had to say, what i think is really remarkable that if you look at public opinion across the western world, this is this war in ukraine is an elite project. this is not a popular thing. i mean, the media can change and parents and the powers that be all they want, but you know, they go to great lengths, the sensor,

r t and other opposition and independent voices. it's not a popular face as an elite agenda and you can see it in germany. ok? you have, i don't read a better box. i don't care what my voters say. this is an elite agenda. go ahead in where they. all right, well, um, unfortunately, uh right, sorry we just don't even represent ca started members and very, very interesting thing. probably not slide down the boss we, we have got a problem where the debate is vaguely shot down. and if we had any device, it's who it was very or where the argument small. so after 4 nights i'd say to be involved in the crime. sorry. so it is already sort of side situation. the u. k. prime industry just side,

but. so he wants to be involved in the reconstruction of the ukraine. i'm not assuming i will be something sold. are you trying to reconstruct all sort of time this card because it's already estimated that the costs of rebuilding a raged over something. number 30, a $1000000000.00. and i think these all say expect saving the guy talks to us. we get involved pretty much. but because of course, the u. k. taxed by i have software to i run this a because we would have a lot of public sites strikes result by now it for money is being spent on putting people, raising. ready wage in the side, they have uh, spending money on move on growing in ukraine. and we've had a huge affects like the rise and the interest rates are all 4 percent

since the government decided on the policies on your credit and russia. we've had a run just rising prices are with the facts of energy costs which will continue to west of the problem with these opinions publish. ready mentioned is they all adults it and so if we actually had to write john, so it's a direct questions. the, the, the thing is, were big a lot against the u. k. they involved on and also the west of european countries. but the problem is, all of these countries are not actually in the interest of the citizens that might give assistance pool to support this war effort. and some of the strange, this cannot continue. at some stage, the citizens are going to say enough is enough. where where, where find out and uh while, while anthony, i'm, i'm a little bit more. i'm may of more pessimistic on that because we saw what they did with cove it back in and in many ways that was a dry run. and so what you can do to, to,

to locking people down quite literally and then locking down to be, let's go back to our guests in london. it's already been mentioned on this program . i think it's very interesting and they talk about reconstruction and no negotiation and all that. well, i mean, they always forget the other side of the equation is rushes interest. and so, since nato will, it will not recognize in russia has any security interest whatsoever. and it's been in europe and leaders have been challenged about this. what about russia? russia has no interest either during this conflict in ukraine. well, that is a very, very dangerous thing to say, because it gives the, the, the policy makers and the problem say, well, they weren't is going to do what weren't going to do, because there's nobody to talk to see. this whole approach is, is so a dangerous for, for a piece on the continent and, and maybe whitening the war. but if you're not going to willing negotiating and get a talk, then the company is going to and wouldn't rush. it says it's over. go ahead in

london. yes, i think it's already been a limited suv. it's the, the european lead is, i'll actually the interest of the people to this refusal by the us of the west not to recognize russia's interests more as a so facia lead moved to a good matchup. but something that is more all in compasses that involves your swell. right? um, it's very sad and unfortunate. i think the basis of a security architecture in europe was missed in the meet at altima softly and below the onto logical cold war. but that's a kind of the more realistic temper they would be to recognize mutual, economic and security interest. since not to play this game, this power, this power came off trying to subjugate the power, such as russia,

which really is going to be assigned to this thing. and it's something that, but it is obviously it's ultimate conclusion, would be a doomsday scenario. one hopes that it may seem like this will something not apparent and therefore rise a little realistic in the arises. but what reason really need is here to break the spend is about being a european leaders of a stronger fiber who can actually present the case. i think there was a time in history that they recognized rushes legitimate interest, whether it was a soviet stage or post soviet state. you had multiple 18 and there's nobody in the you certainly can just leave with that phrase and that's a methodology originates for all these nobody whose personal ties in that,

that's that you need to guarantee every body's a security interest using was states against another is simply not the states, the states crow, it's actually very, very. yeah, well it, what, what is what has happened here is garland, what we heard from, i guess in london is spot on is that you have this with the nato expansion to the east. it's is great. it's center of gravity has moved east as well. so you have countries like poland and you have the baltic. republics. they're the ones that are tilting the scales more. we the old europe, you know, germany and france, you know, where they can bid. this is where your p and security was anchored. they've been sidelines of allowed themselves to be silent. i mean, i don't call them chance or shields. i call them sergeant schultz. i mean, this guy that you know, he would need to think of them with a great chancellor as jeremy's had since the 2nd world war. this guy is a dwarf. i mean it's, it's incredible to watch these people denigrate their own political stability and

disregard and holding contempt. the electorate go ahead. garland yes. and then what they don't realize also is that this attracts the view of europe from the world, the one of the rabbits on africa, the middle east, latin america, most of the world is gravitating towards russian. this conflict is not just because of the history of colonialism from the, from the european powers. that's certainly a factor. but as the, the, the world leaders look at the effect listed as of the european leaders today. and they look at their vassal inches towards um, towards the united states. they have no respect for them. they, they have, they have gained over spectrum around the world in traditional societies, we're respect is very important, particularly for leaders. yeah. look at these people and some of the cultural craziness that they're trying to influence to, to enforce. and they say, we just don't want any parts of this will go with a more traditional society that at least has some, has some for some respect for itself. and who means what it says and says what it means of like other other than the, the european,

vast ways which is just double talkers and be in and say what they're told by the, by the administration. yeah, anthony. i mean, i'm glad this has brought up cars because it's a, something that i've been watching very closely. and this is a says, a societal conflict. as a citizen civilizational, that russian represents a civilization that is anesthetic cold in the minds of the people in the west. and, and this is one of the reasons why they despise russia, is a conservative place. go ahead, anthony. i think more more people in the united kingdom and western europe realizing bread so might be russia, has more bodies and chatting with people is the thoughts about burden i told by the government. so the closer i share is a driver across the country. i treasured country which jose uh like the united kingdom,

it sets up the price. uh so um i think of some of the sage height for the people wake up and realize that the bank tied to a loss of propaganda. but we have to look at this reputation issue because the reputation of utah and america and the united kingdom went down not one that was great, but trial, the 26000000 ice guns when they did not cycle deal with the jackal. with the tyler and get back to the page to base or they could have got involved with the crime. now i have to jump in here gentlemen. we've run out of time. we've had a fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guess in washington where the and in london, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c a next time. and remember,

across the rules the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the scenes, the beginning of its history, the united states of america has officially declared this driving for freedom and people's rights to happiness. however, in reality, having won independence,

american colonists tested for the total extermination of the indigenous population of the continent. american indians were deprived of their land. local residents were driven into reservations given the worst agricultural territories. while the best land was appropriated by white colonizers, the strongest blow to american indian tribes was the extermination of by some native americans lived by hunting these wild animals. colonists slaughtered the bivens, and in fact, made them nearly extinct. every buffalo dead is in india and gone and said, colonel richard dogs, a veteran of the bloody and vicious indian wars cynically the indigenous population was simply exterminated us army general phillips sheridan express the evidence of this policy in the infant. his words, the only good india is a dead indian. the genocide of native americans of north america lead to

a demographic catastrophe. the exact number of deaths is still unknown, but the number of victims is in millions. having been the majority on the continent before the indigenous people make up less than 3 percent of the us population today . the the, what the rest of them in the settled. i mean, i kind of major was how your ship was traveling since the mid, obviously a hair dresser, a bus driver, a sales person, anyone could become a victim. that's how private negotiators fast opin looking for the best assist. you know what i'm going to go to see we started this summer