paying a judge to obtain information about a legal investigation which sar, cuz he's denied and that's a rep on the hour, but coming up and f b i with the lower tells her story and discuss is how us special services punishes those who dare to shed light on the government's wrong doing next on the west of floors. thanks for joining in 6 months. the a whistle blower is usually report on cases of waste, fraud, abuse or illegality in a simple effort to right or wrong. but the whistle blowing sometimes takes on a life of its own and the case becomes something more than writing a wrong. it becomes an effort to change the culture that allowed the wrong to take place in the 1st place. after all,

how effective can whistle blowing be if it doesn't serve to fix a system that has been corrupted. i'm john to reaku. welcome to the with the lower, [000:00:00;00] the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 our next guess jane turner was a trailblazer in the federal bureau of investigation. she joined the fbi i in 1978 and became the organization's 1st swipe member swat is the special weapons and tactics team. she investigated some of the most high profile crimes of the past 40 years, including the abortion clinic bombings and the central park puppy murder. she was involved in the capture of christopher boyce, whose story was told in the film, the falcon and the snowman. and she worked on the case of gary island ridgeway the so called green river killer, who murdered 49 women in washington state. in 1999 jane turner brought to the

attention of her management team. serious misconduct concerning failures to investigate and prosecute crimes against children on native american reservations in the state of north dakota. she also reported on the criminal theft of property from the 911 ground, 0 crime scene. and just to make matters worse, her superiors discriminated against her just because she was a smart and accomplished woman. in the end, jane turner suited the f. b i and one a large monetary settlement. beyond that, government watchdog. ready pts used her case to demand the f b i and the broader federal government address the issues of whistle blowing and retaliation. jane turner, welcome to the show. we're so glad to have you. a. thank you john. i'm just delighted to be here. oh, thank you jane. i'd like to begin with your own whistle blowing and then move on to some broader issues. first, tell us about that whistle blowing you had what looked like a stellar career. you were a trailblazer, as i said at the f

b i you had been there for more than 20 years. you had worked on major cases cases that most people in the general public would know. and then over the course of 2 years from 1999 to 2001, everything seemed to just fall on your head. take us through that period. you're absolutely correct. john. i have some incredible cases. i haven't incredible, career control. i blew the whistle on misconduct in indian country, which is where i was working. i was the senior resident agent. that is someone who has authority over the area that they supervisors. i had 14000 square miles. uh, 14 shares, one who told me he didn't think women should be in law enforcement, but it was a huge responsibility. i had 2 f b i. agents who are under me one who was really a terrible agent,

really terrible. and it turned out that she had closed the case where a young child of 5 year old had been brutally sexually assaulted and he closes the car accident because she appeared not to want to work those cases. they are mess suitcases, you know um, working with kids, but i brought it to the attention of my s i c special agent in charge down in minneapolis, so i flew down there and let him know and the retaliation started immediately. oh, my goodness, your case ended up becoming much bigger than just jane turner. the general accounting office now called the government accountability office cited your case as an example of what should not happen in government with whistle blowers and they urged reforms for the department of justice. soon after that report was published, congress held hearings about whistle blower, retaliation across government, and your case was cited as a prime example of retaliation. so 1st,

tell us how your whistle blowing affected the remainder of your career. and 2nd, tell us how government policy on whistle blowers changed because of your case. well, john, as you know, um, being a c i a whistle blower that a whistle blowers are persecuted and prostitute that happened to you and i was certainly persecuted and went to trial. the jury found that all those allegations that they launched against me that they used and my performance reports were not true. we had several agents, native american law enforcement and assisted in united states attorneys who came to the trial and talked about the fact that these procedural error. so yeah, yeah i had put on my performance report were not correct and were false. and that

historically my work was outstanding and showed no decline to us. the court of appeals for the 8 circuit noted that it was a 10 year battle in john, you're not a stranger to this. not at all. no been through and the government is relentless when they go after whistle blowers, your career is over. i've never gotten anything in law enforcement sense of saying that you have experience. they blackwall you. you're marginalized. it's it's, it's tough to be a whistle blower. it just is tough, it is tough indeed. since leaving government you have become the director and chair of the national whistleblower center here in washington dc. how did you make that jump and why did you decide to devote yourself to whistle blower issues? i mean, obviously it was because of your own case, but i said this with a smile on my face. so many former f

b i. agents that i know choose instead to cash in on their experience and they go into the corporate world. usually in security, you didn't do that. you instead devoted yourself to protecting whistle blowers. why did you make that decision as well? what you said is absolutely correct, john. the people who retaliated against me after they retired, of course, nothing happened to them. they went into the corporate world and got really high paying jobs. i, on the other hand, could not get another job because the up the, all right, certainly put out the words that i was a slaughter human being and they continue that to, to today. so after hearing now, there was a low, a blower stories after being held, helped by a friend white hers, a well known epi i whistle blower. i decided to forward the favor that he gave me and to help whistle blowers, the attorney who represented me, steven calling from con,

calling color info. who is the world's leading whistleblower firm? mm hm. um you took my case. she won my case and i had worked with him ever since i had joined on to the national was the lower center. like you said. and i'm a reporter in a pod, castor for whistle blower, network news, and bring the stories to like because their stories are important. and all the whistleblower tries and communities have noticed the same things happening. when government comes down on you or private business or law enforcement agencies, the same kind of things happen retaliation. uh aust, being ostracized, being kicked out of the tribe that they're in at that time. so it's, it's a tough, tough road. the whistleblower road. and i want to help those people tell us a little bit about some of the work that's being done at the national whistleblower center. right now. you work with whistle blowers from all walks of life. not just

those and national security, not even just those in government. tell us what, what you're focused on. well, the focuses mainly on healthy whistle blowers get through the trauma. because as you are delaware john against it can be a very dramatic and damaging experience to be a person of integrity and then have the government or your job, whatever it is in the private industry. state government. sure. i'll tell you that . uh, you're not a person of integrity that you know you're something less and uh we want to bring it to the public's attention. the whistle blowers are, people of integrity are courageous and they deserve. they deserve justice. in that respect, we're starting a campaign for national whistle blower day for all with the worst. it's a grass roots uh, a campaign to help whistle blowers and to make

a national whistle blower day permanent by executive order by president bite. while we believe we get this done, we believe that we can change your culture concerning this idea of whistle blowers being a spunk at the picnics as cerner tresley says, mm hm. and we really, really are in the chance of getting this done. and this people go to w, w, w dot in w d, campaign dot org. or go to list of lower network news or wish to lower the national us lower center. they can find what's going on with this campaign. we're very excited. we want to get you involved, john, you think it's, what's the lowest and we want to change the culture. and that's the key right there . you know, one of the, one of the big events that you have every year is the national whistleblowers luncheon. that takes place in the summer and i've been several times and there are

hundreds and hundreds of whistle blowers all gathered together. one of the most fun things about that event is that there are some very important people from capitol hill who attend and who give speeches. you mentioned a moment ago, senator grassley, a republican, a very senior republican from iowa. there are other members of congress that attend as well. tell me a little bit about the support that whistle blowers and the national whistleblower center. get from capitol hill. do you see things improving there? i do. i do see it on national this board centers has worked closely with politicians with congress in washington dc. siri nelson is now the executive director of national was the lower center. and by working with these politicians, we're hoping to make the culture better to whistle blowers in fact, person and bite, and even came out after the anti money laundering bill was passed. instead whistle

blowers are critically important for national security and for our economic development. so if you have people saying things like that, john, why are we holding whistleblowers off as the people of integrity of honesty encouraged that they are? and that includes you, john, to tell us a little bit about uh about pending legislation on capitol hill. you know we, we've got a national whistleblower protection act it. unfortunately, national security whistle blowers are exempt from its protections. but the f. b, i has made some inroads. there. is there other legislation that you're working on or fighting for to protect whistle blowers as well. right. now we are trying to gather together uh, people in congress in order to help us with these ventures on whistle blowers and whistle blowing. and we're trying to develop people like senator grassley who can

help whether they be democratic or republican. we don't care. it's a bipartisan efforts and uh, like i said, ours is a grassroots come oh, okay. unpaid and we have whistle blowers are running it. we have a share and watkins, we have my cell spread lighters. we have all these really impressive people, whistle blowers who are coming to the forefront. that's the only way we're going to get things change. because as you well know, people are scared of what's the lowest. it's true, they are, and in many cases they should be were speaking to them. they were speaking with the i was of lower gene turner. we're going to take a short break and come right back, please stay tuned. we have a lot more coming up. the chose approach towards ukraine is full of contradictions. we are told

a win for russia is a defeat for the west. for ukraine is not a member of the military alliance foretold nato is not part of the complex, but it is been supporting kevin to apparently since 2014 nato says he wants russian to be defeated. but it says nothing about the keys, the release of russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most on screen and the best most i'll send send up the keys 195 and speed. the one else calls question about this even though, and we will then in the european union, the kremlin move. yep. mission. the state on the rush to day and split ortiz food next. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the question,

did you say even closer to the the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john 3 onto were speaking with s b i was the blower. jane turned her about her whistle blowing and her work at the national whistle blower center. thanks for staying with us jane. you bet john a pleasure. jane. i want to ask you about some contemporary issues. republicans in the house of representatives have established something called the select subcommittee on the web and ization of the federal government. depending on the news outlet, the subcommittee either is exposing wrong, doing and government, or it's wasting everybody's time. so i wanted to ask you a couple of questions about this 1st met tie

e b who has been on this show has been doing what i think is great work in exposing the f b. i's involvement in policy making a twitter before airline must bought the company. the republicans loved these revelations. the democrats hate these revelations. first, give me your thoughts on what the f, b i the c i a, and the department of defense and homeland security were doing it. twitter was any of this appropriate in your view? well, john, you know, as you know, the f b, i sometimes gets involved in situations that they should not be involved in. mm hm . and that's what so blowers are so important is to bring transparency to our government. no matter if it's the f, b i the c i a n s, a whistle, blowers are critical to bring these actions either mail seasons or corruption or misconduct to light. so i'm delighted they're looking at some of these issues. yeah . there are former c, i a officers spread all over corporate america,

usually in security, but oftentimes also in policy. this is especially prevalent in tech and in defense contractors. but now thanks to the twitter files, we see that former c i a and former f b. i, officers and officials were active in social media companies too. and we see that they had influence over a corporate policy. is this more common then americans realize or is this an outlier? and is it ever appropriate? i think john, that is more common than the public realizes and that's again, i'm going to say that's why whistle blowers are so important. is to bring these situations to like it should not be happening. what do you think should be done about it? and let me preface that by saying, you know, at the c i a, they have a program called the scholar in residents program. and what they do is they'll take

senior c i a officers and place them in universities all across the country with the idea that you spend your last a year or your last 2 years at the c, i a on loan to these universities teaching courses. but more often than not, what happens is either the c i a officer retires in place and continues teaching while staying in touch with the c, i a for it at as a recruiter on behalf of the c i a at that university. we also know that the f b, i has a similar program and that f b i. agents either immediately after retirement or immediately before retirement, go to companies or universities and essentially do the same thing is, is that a good thing? is it good for the public? is it good for the university or for the company? or is this something where we should really have

a wall between these national security and federal law enforcement organizations and academia and business as well? they certainly these corporations and businesses certainly seek out c i a and f b i. people to shipped. uh like you said on in security divisions. and that's a question that the american public should really take a look at because it is quite common. i know of f b, i, agents, it ships with big corporations, they pay well. then as you know, whether it's a c, i, a, or the i are in a say, you're always looking for that golden parachute does, you know, get shoved out of the plane. so there's a lot of them there, there's no choice about it. there's a lot of them there. oh yes, they are in contact with their agency whether be the, the i c i a or, and their site mat. and how you be mentioned recently that there was

a retired c i a officer who was working at the executive level in twitter before ilan musk bought the company and that there was this ongoing joke among other twitter executives that this person had never left the c i a that he was actually still a current c i a officer and he was serving the c i a while at twitter for god knows what, what reason, but you're right jane. this is something that we all have to be aware of. we all have to be on the lookout for and i think as whistle blowers or whistle blower advocates with the blower supporters, we need to be vocal in our opposition to it. you're absolutely correct. you're absolutely correct. it's and they're often used as a direct, a conduit to the government and we'd have to question if that's a healthy relationship or not. indeed, jane, we've seen several current and former f b. i. agents testify on capitol hill as to what they describe is inappropriate actions. taken by the fbi, i in the immediate aftermath of the january 6th,

2021. right. republicans have a lot of these men for their courage. and indeed we had one of them here on the show. but democrats say that they are not whistle blowers. what is your view on this? it seems to me that at its most basic level, what's the blowing is very simply bringing to light evidence of wrongdoing in isn't that what they did regardless of their personal politics? you're absolutely correct, jones, your spot on there. and we can't really sit in judgement of whether a person can be a whistle blower or not a whistle blower if they bring something to light. uh yes, they are a whistle blowers and we have steve friends who, you know, and yes, i know i had him on a pod cast and it was brought up just today. the fact that uh steve friends had been kind of maligned yes. in his mole and of course

empower oversight, which is uh, whistle blowers and research group. and a friend of ours is also responsible for that. came out and said that there were false claims as that the deal j slash o i g had rejected his allegations and that was not true. yes. and that was not true. so you really have to be careful when you hear claims against whistle blowers that they're either not a whistle blower or their claims are not correct or have been rejected because of empower oversight. just noted. they like, i want to ask you about that. you're right, we had stephen friend on this show and i've spoken to him a number of times what was reported about steven friend in the, in the national media. following his testimony before this subcommittee was just simply not true. it said that he had no,

no personal firsthand experience in what it was he was testifying about. that's not true. it said that he was something of a malcontent at the, at the f b i that was not true. he was a proud f b i agent, he had intended to make a lifelong career out of the f b i a and the never the media never addressed his allegations that he was taken off of a squad that had been set up to investigate 6 crimes against children in order to participate in raids on the homes of people who had demonstrated peaceably on january 6th, 2021. the median never touched on any of the allegations that he made. they chose instead just to attack him. that is correct. but that should come as no surprise to either you or i, because in our careers the same thing happened. you know,

they were claims made against you, you were persecuted. and like i said, prosecuted. and there was no good reason for that is just this idea squashing with the lord. and that's all it's about mr. friend steve friend is a whistle and he should be considered that until proven otherwise. that is how we operate. i think that is exactly right. and those of us for whom whistle blowing is so important, those of us who seek to, to support whistle blowers and to encourage the work that they do audit or to take this as a lesson, you know, and in some ways stephen friend got off easy in that he wasn't prosecuted, he was the famed, but he wasn't prosecuted. we look at people like daniel hale, for example, the drone whistle blower or, or jeffrey sterling, the ca whistleblower reality winter the the interstate rates of lower that had their lives utterly ruined and,

and did serious time in prison. that hasn't be fall in stephen friend, but at the same time, the last time i had a conversation with the poor guy. uh, he asked me if uh, if i had any job leads that i could pass to him. here's, here's a man who again has devoted his life to law enforcement, was responsible in his treatment of the law and his in his observance of the law. and he can't find work in his chosen field. it's just simply not fair. yeah, and he probably never will. john, that's the sad news that rosette news, you know what personally you are persecuted and prosecuted. yeah. you know, it's usually i know it and that's just something a whistle blower has to live with. that is what causes the trauma and whistle blowers like it is the natural like we are doing this campaign in order to elevate

them in our culture. their people have integrity, honesty, courage, and you know, they just started to be treated that way as people of integrity. you are absolutely right. we'll leave it there. i'd like to thank our guest, jane turner for joining us. and thanks to our viewers, remember not every thing in life is a shade of gray. some things are black and white. they are right or wrong. when confronted with waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety, do the right thing. below that whistle until next time. 2 2 2 the small, the best of both known issue but for the mobile, when he was an annual g d p per capita, it was about $4000.00 bureaus. we've got lots of scholars and

a mobile because i'm really watched here the sleep of man. i've got a near front across the ceiling from where this really into photo. mm hm. so we should find them all the classes, nature little spot, the, the single thought of unemployment is off the charts. most of us territorial integrity and sovereignty. we respect the country which enjoys financial support from the us, n b u is constantly roles by political and corruption scandals. the but all the students go to google and say new candidates status in 2022.

the the 1937 militaristic. japan started a full scale invasion of china. the invading army was rapidly advancing towards the capital of the republic of china, of the dies, the city of not seeing, leaving behind the burned down villages and thousands of the dead. on december 13th, the japanese occupied time, z and states the real massacre. for 6 weeks,

the invaders exterminated the civilian population. they carried out mass executions, rates, women, and were engaged, been merciless robbery, ruthless confrontation of 2 officers of the imperial army. so c i d, my guy and to yoshi, no to gain particular notoriety. they competed with each other as to who would be the fastest decalle $100.00 chinese with us or this monstrous competition was widely re boarded in the japanese press. the non seeing massacre claims the lives of about 300000 people and became one of the largest crimes against humanity in the world history. after world war 2, many foreigners advance of the atrocity phase trial. however, the commander of the japanese army in the non seeing operation, freezes, yasu eco,

a socket was able to escape the responsibility due to the interference of the american administration. the, the west says that this machine, which kills the russians, if it is in this, that the west seized the values that are now protecting the last can reach him. we will no longer rely on the west as a pos now with whom we can find even minimal common ground with the russian foreign minister says most so can have no dealings with the west. as long as it supports few cranes policies in targeting russian civilian pasto, mach tab over the number of missiles, a claims to have down thing the number is higher than the number actually launched . this comes as russian forces destroy