hi, i'm executive, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously . why watch something that's so different. several opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't want myself to stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direction, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way the

. 2 2 almost everybody grows up wanting to do something they love to be successful at it and to be happy in life. that was how our next guest felt. she was at the top of her professional game. she was respected in her field and she enjoyed what she was doing. but then she saw problems. the corporate numbers didn't add up. she did the right thing, but nobody would listen. things didn't go well. and all of a sudden she was famous. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 sharon watkins is the kind of person that we all should aspire to be like.

she's educated, honest and successful. she graduated from the university of texas for been honors degree in business administration and then earned a masters degree and accounting from the school. and soon after that, she became a certified public accountant. sharon went on to work for the professional services firm, arthur anderson as an auditor. and then she spent several years on wall street managing a portfolio of commodity backed financial assets. she joined the energy giant enron in 1993 and became it's vice president of corporate development there in 2000. and one, sharon realized that annual ins, financial numbers just didn't add up. she investigated and then warrant the chief executive officer kenneth lay about the accounting irregularities that she found in the company's financial statements. but late as it turned out was up to his neck in the scandal. 5 years later he was convicted on 10 counts of securities fraud, although he died of a heart attack before he could be imprisoned. sharon watkins for her part assumed

a place in the pantheon of the most important whistle blowers in modern american history. she found evidence of illegality, and she reported it. she testified on capitol hill. she wrote a book about her experiences, and she was named time magazines person of the year in 2002, along with 2 other whistle blowers sharing. watkins is now a highly sought after speaker on whistle blowing and business ethics. and we're happy to welcome her to the show. sharon, it's good to have you. thanks for being with us as well. thank you, john and thank you for all the flattering comments. i think it's nice to be on your program. they're all true and thanks for joining us. there are so many things that i want to ask you about, but let's begin with the fundamentals. for those of our viewers who are not familiar with your work, you are a senior executive at enron, one of the biggest energy commodities and services companies in the world. you found accounting irregularities, and you reported those regularities to then ceo kinley. tell us about that and

about what happened next. well, i haven't stumbled across these, this horrible accounting fraud in the summer of 2001. and my 1st reaction was to desktop my resume and, and try to leave the company. because i do feel as if it might be fruitless to speak to the ceo at the time jeff skilling but in august, mid august, he surprisingly clipped. he had been chief operating officer since 97 in 2001 he taken over a c, e o the job one and for decades for at least a decade. and 8 months later you quit and for no good reason. and i really felt like it was, it was a chance to maybe write the ship. but kim, i was chairman of the board, but he was stepping back in a c e. o. and hey, maybe i had the real reason just stealing was leaving the company was going to implode in a wave of accounting scandal. and i've got some vision needed to know that. wow,

one of the things that i recall about being run scandal was that wall street loved the company right up until the point that it fell apart. and i remember that it fell apart very quickly. take us back to that. you knew that things were coming to a head. you tried to make corrections, and to bring the problems up your chain of command. at 1st, the outside world had no idea that any of this was happening. what was it like it and run when the news finally broke? it's the whole thing. i like to use the titanic as an example. so, you know, i'm a crew member. i know we've had an iceberg water storing in this kind of a cool let my accounting knowledge that he just, it's very hard to recover from cooking yearbooks. and these were massive numbers. it was a manipulation of, of half of our earnings in the year 2000. so this was a significant manipulation and so on like the claim, number one in the chapter,

you expect, you know, the alarm bells going off in the life of lowering business lines being say toward cash. you know, what's the crisis management team and are planning on doing, and instead people just ignore the problem or kind of focused on, hey, aren't really tight and we're, i'm suitable. let's just look back at our plans. so i sort of shouldn't be a problem for us. maryland chavez is a strong buy them in early october of, of 2001. and we can see december, 2nd, we went fast. i mean, it is kind of similar to silicon valley bank. you know, when people get nervous, that you're not going to be around there is sort of the run on the bank. and that is what happened at enron as well. but more and our trading accounts, where we had large deposits or large really liabilities on the trading side. and

those, those customers closed out their accounts and requested their money. and that's kind of, that's what put us in crisis. and we're talking about huge amounts of money here. i yeah, i was looking at the numbers last night just to sort of refresh my memory. and we're talking about a company that was worth more than a $100000000000.00 and was really seen as a global leader in, in energy. yes, it started, it's live as a natural gas pipeline company in north america. but in march into a financial training powerhouse, you're not besides trading yet, gas, oil, electricity, even broadband, and whether it is but internationally. we were building power plants and pipelines and developing countries. and can, may or june from the long term c, e o. and i'm really taking pride in our free energy development around the

globe. you eventually gave very powerful testimony on capitol hill. you said that you had warned kenway that he was being deceived by several senior executives, including jeffrey skilling. the former c o and c e. o. and andrew fastow, the former chief financial officer kinley, seemed to be very concerned at the time. and you recommended that he go public with the information and face the consequences, whatever the consequences were that the market might might put up. but he didn't do that. and in the end, he scaling and fast though we're all prosecuted. how can something like this happen in a company as enormous as and ron, where presumably there are internal and external auditors, accountants, attorneys, all working to ensure the exact opposite that this never happens. all right, well, um i, i bring up another analogy, emperor's new clothes. i mean that your 40 year old table is not really

a children's tail is about human behavior. and just feeling was very intimidate, you know, we hired the sharpest accountants, bankers in the country. you know, you're really going to keep asking questions of prove you don't get it. andre anderson, i was intimidated going along for the long or she's around was paying them $52000000.00 a year on it in runs books. but even the base. well, citibank chase and c i v c. so sharing over litigation for their d one. so then ross, are $2000000000.00 a piece because they were lending money to in wrong, but they need in or on was looking at is free cash flow. so there's almost the sort of safety and numbers like well, if, if the banks keep blending, they must be doing their diligence. i know it is not a risky client. anderson keeps approving it. they're, they're a big, well respected army firm. it must be ok. so this is kinda reminds me of f t

x where it's not really anderson's or, you know, the big banks, it's more of a celebrity step. we're county f t. yes. so in the age to kim car last year you know the reality tv, you don't need anderson development to the bank chase, he just needs deliveries to talent that you're ok. and people almost included the well, these kind of organizations when be involved in the fraud. well, you know, there were, so i was at the lloyd into sh when much of this played out, i had left the c i and gone into the private sector. and there was a ripple effect here, a very important ripple effect. the collapse of enron also brought the collapse of arthur andersen, which at the time was the biggest and most important professional services firm in the world. and there were literally thousands of equity partners at at anderson

that, you know, one day we're making millions of dollars a year. and the next day we're in the unemployment line. a lot of people were hurt by this. a lot of people weren't particularly sorry for the retired or readers foreigners because their patients were in a partnership that were not bankruptcy for. so you know, they run their seventy's, retired and they just lost all their retire. unable to really go back to work the same thing happens in ron employees that had their 41 k invested in round stock, enron, shareholders loss of stock or 60000000000 at the beginning of 2001. but it did have really cool effects on the you know, many of our customers that had marketing deposits on hold with us. yeah, it was pretty rude. oh, yeah, that's tough. jeffrey skilling served more than 12 years in prison. andrew fastow served more than 5 years in prison between them and the state of can lady for,

for it, it's tens of millions of dollars and the case was just as served in your view. certainly the company's principles were punished. but what about the shareholders? after all, there were people, as you just said, a moment ago who lost everything when enron collapse, were they ever made home again? of no one was made whole. the there was way 9 or $10000000000.00 to collected and share shareholders that box years from $98.00 or got, you know, maybe $0.15 on the dollar for their loss. but for many employees, if they've been at the company and, and earned stock options in stock brands in the late eighty's early ninety's, they didn't receive anything from that shareholder lawsuit. so it was pretty brutal, but i may say, you know, say 20 years isn't wrong, collapse. i met a lot of whistle blowers and there is

a sense that just as was to me that the very top executives were found guilty. they were sent to prison and there are so many whistle blowers that still have a lot of banks because the people that did the wrong doing the higher ups, they got away with it. they went home rich. um, you know, they might not even be disgrace. just kind of known for being poor leaders or run ran their companies into the ground. but there's a lot of frustration for people to see kind of the power and don't see just as happens in, in enron case, people are able to move on and leave it because just as well, sir, with us presidents we are speaking with and wrong with the blower share and watkins we have a lot more to talk about. so stay with us. through this commercial break, we're going to be right back. 2

turkeys already and they told me century keys already doing its share as a nate on ethics. but it's not going by some of the american ideas of kind of we cannot make them. our goal is to, i guess, rush, i think tricky will continue and that's only because the relationship maybe beneficial economic later. but also because russia has to be a partner in main, standing in the international orange, the acceptance that i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do, do not watch my new show. search like why watch something that's so different whitelisted or opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you, go ahead,

change and whatever you do. don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you think . it looks at the worst and the students, the slow that are sounds good right now let's you and they thought clearing as the post is all the at the is that i it's a get a minute come other students need which is 82. so on the screen, so of course to ensure material, which is the model i'm willing to identify to lock the door is almost once again is vis or above which will screw well in the middle of something that we did present to not the degree that the results between you and they will just data source for showing them transform which way which insidiously sent him

the process the were speaking with and wrong with of lower share and watkins about her experience trying to head off what at the time was the greatest corporate failure in american history. sure. and you were lauded by members of both parties on capitol hill for your whistle blowing, your honesty and your pursuit of transparency. that's highly unusual. and honestly, i can't even imagine it happening in many cases in today's political environment here in washington. but one of the complaints that i had for my time on capitol hill was that even after successful and important public hearings, there was usually little or no follow up. was that your experience on capitol hill? did anything good come out of those hearings? new legislation, new regulations, more transparency?

um, well the surveys oxley act was passed in the summer of 2002 in the wake of the failures of m. bron world common global crossing other other corporate meltdowns. and it did do some good, it totally fine. best practices for boards of directors. the boards needed to have a certain level of independence. they needed to have the right expertise on the board. and they needed to be without management present. really helping to increase dialogue and discussion on, on corporate boards. they also implemented an anti retaliation revision that and how was lower, shouldn't be fired or are reprimanded. and that, that happens. but you know, bumps in the road, but that was good. legislation is required, internal controls to be leased up and the see is how do they couldn't use the defense of well, i'm not in the can you know,

they have to certify that their financial statements were not this lady. i'm so that that was um some, some good efforts. i think um, i often think it's because of 911 that we were not able to to immediately capture osama bin long. and it's like the, the whole new within the stock entry as well. would you give the international folks, let's get the domestic guys that are doing wrong? me? sure. and often times these cases drag on for many years. it took about 5 years to bring and runs senior executives to justice. and it took about 15 years for enron to finally cease to exist. that's not unusual. and it's not unusual for very important people to be caught up in these kinds of cases. one of the people who is no stranger to litigation and this may sound kind of funny to some of our viewers. but if it's former us vice president dick cheney, when he was

a sitting vice president in 2004, he took to the courts to protect himself from fall out from his contact with ken lay cheney met with late in early 2001 and he met with other oil company executives and invite a mental group. the sierra club and a conservative watched our group. judicial watch. soon cheney arguing that the energy task force that cheney headed was subject to a 1972 law that required the disclosure of the work of advisory groups that included non federal employees. what happened in that case was the outcome good for whistle blowers and for transparency or no? um, well it's not good for transparency that went all the way to supreme court and they know that those minutes of those energy task force meetings could be how confidential and classified. and john really brings up a good point, and i realize that, you know,

it was called an energy task force. and kim lawyer in wrong ended up meeting with the cheney 6 times in 2001. but what i was say in december and january as in wrong declared bankruptcy. and you know, that was all, all this concern about in runs and can lifestyle. president bush, warner, president bush, people thought in my you must have requested the immediate inquiries into that. cheney bush cheney meetings, were that thinking on was requesting that happened at the baths? well, you know, kimberly was really kind of clueless and we were in such an angel hardships that we were about to implode in a way that the account is due. so i know he was requesting the help because he didn't realize you need it. but cheney was really adamant these things from a confidential and to this day, i believe chaney held discussions about rock that would indicate

possibly, you know, change the way that we were going to evade right before 9 am a because he starts working. i'm happened before 911 and i think there's evidence and those next minutes that there was a strong inclination that we might need some of our energy companies involved in the industry in. all right. and um, you know, i really want to see those minutes and see the light of day and, and let's add to that. uh ken lay was the former, the national chairman of the or what one of the national chairman of the george w bush presidential campaign in the year 2000 ken. busy was uh, was a major fundraiser for the bush cheney campaign in 2000. we know that ken lane, dick cheney, we're, we're friends. we know that dick cheney had

a special interest in energy as you know, correctly before 911. well, if there's nothing to be ashamed of, then why not released the minutes? right, i was very alarmed at how hard he thought for those to remain quiet in um, given that we, we started the rack. we're in march of 2003 under false pretences of weapons of mass destruction and ties to 911. i think that's why he thought so hard because, you know, there was going to be evidence that ends in their place prior to 9. well, one other thing on this dick cheney situation and, and maybe i'm getting a little too far afield, but i think it, it's worth raising. we know that in the final days of the bush administration, dick cheney lobby, president bush, hard for

a handful of pardons. the most important of which was scooter libby, chinese former chief of staff. i'm actually surprised that cheney didn't weigh in on behalf of ken lay. they've been friends for years, decades, even they were involved in energy at the same time. and kenley never got any relief . you know, i think i have a jamie ambushed, i could read the tea leaves and realize that the, the, the mood in the country was against tracking the corporate c as the run, the company's end to the ground, golf and guy. and came down here. there was no cabinet position offered to can my there was no amnesty job for to come by. right, exactly. sharon, you recently gave a very interesting interview to the national whistle blower center that i want to ask you about psychologist to deal with with ser blower issues. tell us that it is

very rare for a whistle blower to find success after they blow the whistle on waste, fraud, and abuse. in fact, very very few whistle blowers ever make of financial. come back, many lose friends. and in many cases, even their marriages break up, but none of that has happened to you. your experience has been completely different to what do you attribute your continuing success, and what advice would you give somebody considering blowing the whistle? well i, i'm very happy with the reward the programs and the doc frank at that time. so in the wake of the 2008 um financial crisis because that does allow, was lower to find legal support because there's a way of potentially to pay that, that legal support when a reward is yeah. and that's and it also keeps with lowers and honest. and for me, i don't make the same amount of money i, i would have with corporate career and the corporate career is closed off and i

have lost friends. but i end up touching it face and i rely on that phase and it's, it's come through for me in the sense that you know, i'm fairly content and i live with a lot of uncertainty. i do make a living, gave a speech. it is. and there's just no certainty as to when those will happen when they want. but i think i'm comfortable with that uncertainty. and um, you know, have been really enjoying being able to advocate for whistle blowers and the programs that support to sharon tell us a little bit about your cooperation with the national whistleblower center and other whistleblower groups around the world. and just as importantly, tell us where our viewers can learn more about the work that you do. i write some time, so that was the blower network news. but i am a proponent and really i want to get the word out on programs that exist

through dodd frank and the different boss a bit past even recently are a money laundering. there are now, you know, several law firms that support most of ours and they can for me. so as i speak around the globe. busy and certainly in north america, audiences seem to still be unaware of the avenues they have to seek truths to power . and so i, i like to give this a workshop. you know, i asked, what is the question, how much do you think the fcc has paid out to whistle blowers in the 1st and years of that was the lower program. the frank acts initiated in their guess? is the way much, you know, it's over a $1000000000.00. he sees a whole new and all the the, these programs work there, a check and balance against abuse of our and is it is truly helping organizations

behave correctly and look for corruption themselves and bear it out themselves. because if they do wrong, there are way too many avenues now where they, someone can buy the whistle, is getting better, you know, from corporate whistle blowers in the private sector. i think we have a long way to go on the look within the government world. sharon watkins, thank you so much for joining us. we were happy to have you. well, listen, john, i will come on any time. thank you so much for being an advocate for most of the really great. thank you so much. last year, according to the big for professional services from deloitte whistleblower complaints in the financial services sector were up 35 percent over the previous year. one of the things that to avoid found was that the popular image of a corporate whistle blower is that of an eccentric loaner. the truth, however, is more prosaic. whistle blowers are usually loyal employees. they're passionate

about high standards, about ethics, and about the rule of law. they only go outside the chain of command when nobody takes them seriously. they are not defiant troublemakers. they're disappointed believers, and we need more of them. i'm john kerry. ok thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 2 2 the in 1884, the german empire began its colonial invasion internet media. from the very start. berlin encourage the white calling is to settle in south west africa and take away the best land from the local drive. the germans were actively draining natural

resources and using the local population as a cheap labor source. this was causing major protest and lead to rebuild your in 19 o 4 here aero. and now my drive is rebuild against german colonial rule. kaiser wilhelm the 2nd was fully determined and ordered to suppress the rebellion with the up most severe retake against the inhabitants of nam may be germany through it's the dean, 1000 well equipped army all around the country. concentration camps were built in humane medical experiments over citizens were conducted within the period of 4 years. the german scaled up to 60000 people among weights. there were 80 percent of that. here railroad tried and 50 percent of the number dr. the events in south west africa are called the 1st genocide of the 20th century, and not without reason are compared to the holocaust just 2 decades later after the

massacre in nam may be a hitler's a solid unit boat on the same brown colonial uniforms which force the world into the chasm of the 2nd world war. the it is breaking news off the international us, the russian defense ministry confirms the city of our trump office call center is back, most is now officially under russian control. it follows the claims by the wagner private ministry company and had finally taken the area of setting sites on the target as rushes for him and at the flames. the west is actively discussing the dismemberment of the russian federation, the and the resumption of direct flights between tbilisi and most of.