and the so you got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy from foundation. let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very unclear to get a time time to sit down and talk the welcome back to worlds, of course with 8 that around professor emeritus of political science in the departments of international relations at east symbol building the university professor to run before the break, we were discussing all kinds of unholy alliances,

possible in politics, not only charges, but the politics worldwide. and one more question i want to ask you about the searing policy is that uh present there though on the was no the only one who well, he wasn't on the one who came off with if he was the one who executed it. but the, the architect of that policy, i did that with a loo, happens to be ironically in the opposing political camp and the present air the on whenever you think about him in tactical deeds back track from that policy. if she tries to re re establish ties with syria, he tries to change the turkish culture in that region. but that mr. that with the low and he's in 2 years is still defending. that jerk is way of responding to the arab spring and the syrian, the uprising was the right one. do you find his judgment?

ah, why is inducing the opposition may benefit from it? the choice or i don't find his arguments particularly wise, but rather unwise. i think historically, a turkish foreign policy, never assume an active position and at least in politics, because you know, this was a highly volatile area. and many alliances were unstable. and turkey would probably not be able to influence what happens, but be negatively affected by it. and in fact, this is precisely why this happened. 30 is not in a position to invoice, but it's happening in syria very much. but it has been the target of its major wave of refugees from c and that are not interested in going back. because you know, the fact that mr ad on was the person who actually decided on policies so

well understood what to little may have had major responsibilities that does not absolve mister ad on from the responsibility of having drag turkey into this conflict. but i think the soon as on is now quite aware that he is alone, syria is making a comeback to them in the least. he cannot cope with the refresh the problem. so he is trying to make mans with the city and redeem, and he's also trying to make mines with all other middle eastern countries that have supported syria and is trying to make brands with all countries that initially were challenged by the muslim brotherhood. but then that it often moves them brotherhood one way or the other knox city. i never permitted those them brotherhood to assume an active status,

but the turkey supported them in trying to bring a violent change in the syrian government. i think turkey misread everything. i mean, he didn't realize of broad this, the side was being supported by not only the l y segments of the population, but non muslims, as well as sick. you learn most of the 13, miss joyce, how much international supports mr. aside with good and how much and do i see with display? i want to transition to mr coast out there a little to give him uh, the same amount of uh, time of our discussion. uh, hopefully she can, she cares. you said in and out of the interview, that if the opposition secures electoral victory, you believe that the decision making process will be far more institutionalized unless reliant on personal wins and personal connections between the leaders. and

it sounds like a very old classical liberal idea, but do you think it's compatible with the time? because we leaving the time when many leaders, regardless of the political persuasions, have to make decisions very fast. and often, without consulting with the representative bodies of the countries, because there is no other choice take pandemic to take the current functions. what have you, you know, there isn't a necessity in many countries to make decisions fast. do you think mr. cole is thoroughly, we'll be able to do that, or i think we're talking about maybe 2 different things. i'm talking about how decisions are made. i think you are right that the speed of communications, the need for governments to reach decisions quickly elevated the role of individuals in decision making. but this is not at the express of agencies or government that are responsible for our policy making me may look at. so by then,

for example, you know, there's a missing by then it's subject to all these constraints that you have referred to. but he works with an institution. yeah. but the whole reading is very low in the he's ability to do the ideas or no, we don't know that just approval rating is very low because of his policy making on the internet because of his phone and policy making. and similarly, when you look at europe in union, when you look at the individual countries, granted that this is had to be made made more quickly. and on occasion, individuals may find that i was so i was in a position where they do not have enough time, and therefore time to consult the relevant agencies sufficiently before to noticing a decision. but on the other hand of, and we look at how let us say the european countries say we have with regard

to, for example, providing weapons for the crate. it's a very elaborate process. it's, it's evaluates the capabilities of the military's what kind of means they have, what are the limits of budget? so i think i would basically disagree with your friends or mental propositions. there may be ok, asians right quick actions may be needed, but it, for the most part, it is possible to conduct the folder and publish it, you know, more institutionalized fashion and not to rely on simply person to person context, which is the ability is the best way to conduct or impulse, you know, we're here in the rush. i used to all kinds of, um, well, i would say malicious and upset unsubstantiated allegations and the nothing can really surprise us. but when mr. collision are a little published, he's

a recent with about this. suppose it's interference russian electra and then the interference in the turkish politics. that took many russian observers by no just by shoot surprised by, by the shock and not because of the substance of delegation. i mean a, who cares, but about the, the way it was phrased because in the russian it sounded as to literally ruth and arrogant. and i want to bring it back to your point that somehow, or the institutional process would be given more weight on domestically sterile when a person decides to publish it with and put on the line. you know, potential for international relations because our countries are benefiting greatly from, you know, call per rating that really reflect the, the good judgment. but both, i think in the interests below the competition. so if

another country is actively involved in the campaign process, one way or the other, and you have very solid evidence, you're more sorry on that to have it done. this hasn't been published just a minute, just a minute, let me finish it. but this has to be based on solid evidence, sometimes that ever this may not be released, but the appropriate today is will know what this is. so i am not in a position to either say most of the list at all that was right or wrong. but i know there has been locations when russia is used, for example, the attacks on the internet to the effect public. ok. and then the, and this is a, this is such a difficult to, i'm in the, uh, give you a real example from uh, nature,

uh, nato was faced with this allegation that the german officer in estonia had raped. and as tony and women, it turned out this was a totally manufactured event. and then they traced the uh, internet communicators, but for propagating this news, they were all placed to some town inside the area with mr. to run the rest. all due respect. when you say rush or human, the common human, the official seat of the russian power and sure russia has many people. and some people, me engage in some, uh, it listed internet activity, just as some turks, you know, if you go to certain websites, you would be astonished by the behavior of sidney turkish ma'am. the way they express themselves. also visiting my country or because of the, you know, women and other countries, but it doesn't mean that it represents your country. where is the negative to say

we've here it is very important because we have even if it was, let's say, an official act of russian interference. let's say vitamin put in the went online and wrote it. do you think it's a good policy to, you know, to publish it with like that then jeopardize your very beneficial relationship between the 2 countries? i mean, does it strike you as a fair balance? but let me say this, 1st of all, as i said before, in this particular incident, i have no idea as to what the evidence was. number one, number 2, i would say that it is better to express this pleasures diplomatic rates then open made because as you suggested, the open communication of these complaints may have unintended consequences. if we are the public opinion in the other country, you may feel hurt about,

but this being said, now it's been a widely expected and mr. police federal express himself. it's expressed in the o positions policy paper that the opposition, if it comes to power, wants to maintain some sort of a balance relationship between russia to our kit and the west. but the, they also made it clear that they want to align themselves with the west more promptly and in fact, police narrows darnell loose advisors said the, the i, he's name is now to because he said that the jerky will remind russia that turkey is indeed and nature country, what i want to ask you is how much space do you think turkey has in terms of leaning in western on nature direction without losing the benefits? huge benefits of that. it's currently deriving from coffee or anything with russia . i think uh the idea is that the republican vehicles part of

the expressed were very poorly expressed and not necessarily particularly well thought out a i think uh what uh the opposition party is saying, for example, they emphasized uh, going back to right is restoring relations with the european union and the european union, i think they are very much interested also in being identified with the community of democracies more closely. so the turkish democracy will not come under challenges if government changes. no, uh, i think there was an initial careless expression or sentiment that might have raised some uh, understandable concern in turnkey. but after the days past the c h b says that they had or exceeded their intention. they tried to

a go back and say, actually we value the relationship with russia and we showed continue to work for good relations with russia. not the turkeys already. and they told me that it's in turkey is already doing it. share is i need to remember. but it's not going by some of the american ideas of him, but because we cannot make them bard goes against russia. i think turkey will continue that. but only because the relationship may be beneficial economically. but also because the, the russia has to be a partner in maintaining the international order to sort of try to drive a rush or other to international orange. x is not going to be useful for anyone in the least useful for turkey, because turkey is so close to russia as so many multi dimensional

relationships. so for us, oh professor, it's around. we have to leave it there. thank you very much for your time. it's been my pleasure, thank you. thank you for watching hope to hear again unable to part the,

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