we have to assess florida doesn't want that. i faxed them, put the notes up under that the, [000:00:00;00] the i'm action or tennessee and welcome back to going underground broadcasting all around the world from dubai, in the u. a. the boss of biden diplomat and ukraine qu, coordinate to victoria newton and tony blinking telephone sydney's need to general behind just 4 days before violence broke out in what was africa's largest country.

hundreds of thousands of now be displaced from the global resource. super power piece, though, is being discussed in saudi arabia, seen by some is evidence that institutions move to save that people have done best in your up in the strengthening of bricks, a global transformation and powers on stuff level. but does the u. s. military industrial complex still have a few tricks up its sleeve. joining me from new york as a journalist through ford for power and elections in the us. capitals of the p. s. l o. u. s. policy. the socialism in liberation eugene per year is the host of freedom side on breakthrough news and also of shackleton change mass incarceration and capitalist america. eugene, thank so much for coming on the show. so apparently the russian naval base plans for that were in train. biden suddenly pulls in $288000000.00 of the us public money into so done and then chaos hundreds of thousands of just based what, what are the roots of the conflict? i know that union gave congressional evidence and it seems i'm going grissman was supporting behind against

a mess. he between the 2 generals as the way the conflict is described on corporate media. so yeah, i mean, it'll be interesting to see, you know, as this unfolds, the full context of that. but i think that when we look at the routes we looked at newlands call, we look at the binding administration. they really had the same position since 2019 and the erupt sion of the mass process that ended in the removal of former present . oh, my obvious year, which is to try to manage the political situation in students to have the best possible outcomes for what the united states and the sort of related countries that are working with them. with like to see for the region. i don't think they have full control. i think they've been trying to maneuver between the different forces and the our assets and that as a, has been moved them around. but at the end of the day with the us seems to be looking for it to keep sudan firmly and it's column, you know, 1st and foremost in the region and visa view, what's happening in africa. but also in the middle east, in west asia, west again as traditionally played

a very significant role. and they want to make sure that there is a, a force of power that is behind the throne. that ultimately will, i think, as you speak to not have a big opening to, to russia, which is of course, gaining ground all across the african top net. but that also will be very open to various different things that abraham accords with student assign deals with the i m f and other pieces like that. that for them would certainly be better. but also that have a big leaf of democracy, quote unquote, along side of it. and they're trying to manage what's happening here. um, but the civilian side and the military side, and it seems to have now boiled over. but i think those are basically the roots as a mass movement that was really moving the history of student board in a big way. and that has been to some degree short circuited, primarily by the role of the united states, to try to manage the transition and take it out of student these hands. yeah, one normally thinks of those usaid back then cios as koans of the us and gemini, but even they and so done seems to be going against the neo liberal model. and so done was that part of the problem here that is part of the problem. and i think

when you look at the resistance committee, your solution and i should say that yeah, no, it's a very good point to say. and when you look at the, the resistance committees that were the backbone of those protests, they were very heterogeneous. i mean, you had sort of the n g o u. s. a times you also had communists. you also had the bad party. you had a lot of different people, the traditional major political parties, the national m a party and others. i mean, it really was treatment all students the sort of movement, which is why i think it was successful more so than the other challenges that president bush year had phased which were, you know, more sec torrell and less sort of all encompassing here. and i think that is actually part of the challenge of what is basing now is many people are agreed on what they knew. they did not work, but then in the wake of that you've got these challenges. but if you're part of the moving on the streets, i think it's very difficult to be considered legitimate ends to data. if you are continuing to move against with a lot of people, especially young people have seen to be potentially problematic. i mean, the selling of the country to the washington consensus type of policies, the fact that there's not

a significant oversight in regulation around mining around agriculture. the fact that there needs to be significant redistribution of wealth, both between classes and between regions. so i think even those who want to push a more pro us agenda are still in a position where in order to maintain their own credibility with the suit in the street, they have to also sort of hold up a more the what is you know, and counter hedge, a monic policy, if you will, but this is why we've seen the us play both sides of defense. on the one hand, they're trying to manage some civilian forces. on the other hand, they're trying to have influence with the military, which i think speaks to the fact that the west knows they're not fully in control. and that suited these people themselves have a lot of very strong believes that they're not fully able to override. so they're trying to massage both sides of it to get what many people in sedan cost the salt landings, which means a type of government that will be very valuable and very manipulative both by the us by the e. u and by other powers. but i think it's difficult because student needs people themselves have

a very clear idea of what they like to see and their own political processes at the grassroots that are making it difficult to just impose an agenda from the top. i mean, the richard cabin and countries of africa doesn't seem to care much with the i c. c . what, but it's warren, john booge and obviously the icpc of go as a sparks we detention of omar alba share in see done our editor of going on the go . and i should say of as a piece of on the into the she was in the for exposing the lies that were written about doubtful. what was the relationship between the but she is foreign policy visa of the palestine as to why he was destroyed by nature nations. and i think that his policies towards palestine were maybe one of the key factors in terms of why the united states immediately sort of jumped on the, the, the military forces who were willing to get rid of last year. and we're looking for international backing because to day and really going back to 1967 so well the short before last year,

the 1967 aero bleed conference. the famous 3 knows no negotiation with israel. i mean, student has a long history of putting all, you know, very significant force is money. you know, all of that behind the palestinian cause. and this of course is what has led the united states to bonds it in and 1998. israel was frequently bombing sudan in terms of, you know, at least what they said were a weapon shipments that were coming through and moving into palestine. and so certainly sedan has always been very much for the country that has not gone along with the consensus of the united states, at least in terms of how they would like to see the is really palestinian conflict addressed. and they've tended to favor all of the factions in palestine, but to really say were supporting palestinians, you know, were supporting their self determination and was supported with money will support it was more than that. and so i think i don't know the exact chain of events, but it seems when we looked at what happened in 2019, that part of the conversations that took place between the united states and the elements of the military that removed last year and was to essentially say we will become

a part of the abraham records process. if you back us in our attempt to stablish a condominium governance with disability and forces. so, you know, i don't know if it's the number one issue in terms of the west, but i think it certainly is one of the issues that was always at the center of the contradictions between the united states and sudan. and that in the door for conflict was weaponized in a major way to try to do as members to dance. and i think that certainly it's still continues to play a role today. and it's also something that has become one of the more contentious issues with all of the various political force ensued and most of whom do not support the abraham of course process. although many of them have very different views on tuesday, pollution one site solutions and all of that. so it's becoming a metal, if you will. i in the attempts to really find common ground between the different sites. yeah, you mentioned the job for, of course, or what, what's happened to george clooney? don cheadle, brad pitt, that was all at chill on the people that helped as a, to the breakup of su, done from south to don. where was there

a lot of extra minerals in upon it bought and what was done? how is it being covered there in the united states? because you couldn't, john, for suddenly africa being on the front pages of american newspapers when it came to the desire to destroy the share and break ups are done. now, they're confused immediately by what is going on, incident or? well, you know, all of the celebrities have disappeared in the mainstream media is just seem to risk of re discovered therefore, but talking about it and very different times. i think it just shows that with almost every african issue that the way it enters into the us sort of mainstream media is only in the context of some sort of state department engineered campaign to unseat some leader. and we saw something similar adobe a recently. we saw it and cut the wall with the removal of president bog. both we've seen it over and over again in the history of this. and i think dar for, it was an issue where there was a lot of, you know, very spurious information put forward. that was designed to contextualize the issue

in every way to take out the environmental factors to take out the, the really underlying factors of the contradictions between herders and pass store list over land and water in a moment where this a health because of climate change, as the land and water become more and more scarce, and it was an attempt to turn it into an f. no national is conflict. africans versus arrows, which is essentially a totally false presentation. but it was all very important at that time because that was being pushed. so i think the mainstream media is entire attachment to advert good seems to be 100 percent based on what the state department feels uh, you know, needs to be put out there. and when those sorts of campaigns propaganda campaigns are being run, you don't really hear anything about it. just like now all the american newspapers are talking about russia in this house, but they were never talking about molly for the years. and the years and the years that france was committing more crimes there in the country and being accused of that, that there were all these terrorist attacks that were going on, that were really corny people in molly amber, keen on the chair and all these other countries so i think it's very interesting to

note that are for like so many of these other issues with the only way you really see them in the mainstream media is when they seem to be directly connected to some sort of public camp. a propaganda campaigns designed to gen, uppers, and change. well, just before we go to west africa, maybe you mentioned the v o b a. if there's any reason for celebration that out of the catastrophe or what's happening into done, maybe groups can overturn the washington consensus. the nature of nations clearly failed to weaponized the t b. i left and break up sierra tray. if you, if you have a piece steal. however you feel bit suddenly talking about this. i am f deal. what sort of pressure is being exhausted on the leader of the view opiate and what, why would the president 0 to be contemplating? i am f money knowing what she my husband who happens to an african country that gets indebted to the i m f in washington. i think stream pressure is being applied right now, and i think that the p o b as in

a situation where according to their own analysis, they need about $20000000000.00 in money in terms of recovering from the war, the damage that was done. i mean, they've got billions of dollars in debt that already exist. and so ultimately they're in one of these sort of, uh, you know, files to you in situations here. i mean, that's where you gotta spend money to make money where to develop their country to recover. they need access to funds. but because it's a country where 70 percent of people live in poverty, there are very limited options in terms of how you raise those bonds. and i think that what is happening is there is a lot of old style banking in the d o. b in government that thinks the only way to address this is to go to the map into the world bank. and i think that when you look at a go, uh, which is a free trade agreement, which e, b o, b has been removed funds from, but the access to us market that's also being used. the risk tab, the return of the, of the as being dangled um the issue with the i m f world bank is being dangled. and so there's this attempt to basically say, we'll help you with your debt issues. we'll help you with the go. i will do all these different things if you're willing to tow the same line at the jeep yellows

and become a proxy in the region. so i think the real question, ethiopia now, is whether the government involved the act met. and those around him are going to capitulate to this, or whether or not they're going to recognize that this is a trap. and that's similar to a retreat country. that of course, they've made peace with that. you know, ultimately, if you don't rely primarily on your own needs, in order to develop, you end up in a situation where you're bound by the shackles of the washington consensus, the i'm up in the world bank, but it is a tricky situation. it's a huge country, 120000000 people. huge needs that they have right now. and even prior to this work, huge needs in terms of i, the peas refugees and just general development again, 70 percent of the people living in poverty. so it's a tough situation for them to basically have to decide between whether or not they, they essentially live and in a very tough set of circumstances and try to build themselves up on the ground up, or whether they try to enter into the assignments and well bank, so i think it's a, it's a dangerous situation. i've been saying quite a bit that i think they should not do this. and i am as is in fact a trap. but i do think that right now,

the wellbeing of the ethiopian people is being put into a vice here by the united states to try to force the governing officials. they're to have a more client state reality in the regions. so we'll see if that happens. i don't know if it's not likely, but it's interesting development. you didn't pay. i'll stop you that more from the breakthrough news hosting plans, how politicians after this break, the so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation. let us be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very clear to get

a time time to sit down and talk the russian state. never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best most i'll send send up the in the 6595 and speed. what else holes? question about this? even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the rushes to day and split the ortiz full, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the tv service was for the question, did you say even twist, which is the, the,

the,

the the welcome back to going undergrad and i'm still with the host of freedom side on breakthrough news. eugene. great. yeah. what about bricks? what about russian and chinese intelligence on what happened and so done as a, uh, making some mistakes engaging and most cool when it comes to how the blinking state department is operating at the moment or do these countries realize the world has changed since, since ukraine, i think they do realize the world has changed, and i think when you look just below the surface and even in the countries we're talking about, i think both russia and china are acting in a way that the peoples of ethiopia sudan of a retreat. i prefer to see,

which is to say, we're not taking sides, we're not, you know, for this side, we're not for that side. we just want to try to find a way to have, you know, a win win partnership. so you look at china right now. i mean, they are actually already forgiving the ethiopian debt, despite the fact that the west and i imagine others are dragging their feet. china is restructuring the data. they're engaging in new deals, they're bringing new investment into the country. russia is now also partnering with ethiopia around how to do more training in the information technology spear out of bring more students to read the of the of their, into the countries. both of the countries are working very closely now with the retreat route, issues of logistics around issues of trade around issues of power and instagram. a little bit more complicated, but i think still a similar sort of reality when you look at it is that russia in china really had good relations with both sides that are fighting each other now. and we're also talking to many other political forces and essentially saying, you know, we are partners that you can speak to whoever your government may be. we have our own interest, we're looking for our own economic interest, of course. but at the end of the day, you know, we're going to work with what you give us. and i think that's what people in the

african continent really want to see. they want to move away from this sort of u. s. d, you style of, we tell you what to do and you do it before we destroy you. and i think what we're seeing is the breaks nations, especially russia, in china, are planning a significant role in sort of shifting that balance as it concerns the relations of big powers with the african continent. i think we're seeing the us and the e you get left behind a little bit and have i honestly started to lose quite a bit of ground in terms of at least the, the, the, the battle of ideas, if you will, in terms of who the best partners for african countries in the 21st century, while, as you said, front, kicked out to the molly, but who the band doing level of non aligned movement isn't gone. i mean, jacob are and you wish, trying to enroll to work. when it came to the geopolitics isn't it now in case of, you call the number line in the sense that you're not aligned with countries with nuclear weapons in the face of the united states, fits in the, in the past few decades, is obviously killed, wounded,

or displaced tens of millions of men, women, and children. yes, i think you know, non alignment, now it is a mess. i mean, it'd be nice. i mean, it would be great. it would be fair. but i think the reality is, despite what all the rhetoric is, the u. s. especially has decided that you must choose science and maybe even if you look at anthony blinking strip last year to africa and he went to south africa and he said, well, we don't tell anybody what side they can choose. and just a couple of weeks before the end of thomas greenville, the u. s. and bass of the united nations had been in uganda doing just that, saying you can only in fact trade with russia around these goods and anything else or the sanction you saw be try a new and go to break, you know, fossil and essentially lay down the law and say you can not work with russia on any of your security concerns. we can see that malia, of course, was removed just like the from a go us for refusing to keep the french in the country. so when it comes down to the actual policies, and certainly what you hear from african diplomats forever,

african politicians is that there is significant pressure that is put on them by the united states on a regular basis to break all times with russia. so despite the fact that they see they say they claim, well, you know, we're not taking sides, we're not asking our african friends take sides. rather they are every day constantly and using every possible technique they can fine to put pressure on them . and so i think ultimately, despite the fact it would certainly be the just and fair thing to let any countries work with whoever they want to work with at the united states is working in overdrive to keep the african continent from exploring new possibilities with russia. with china, with india, with turkey, with brazil, with been his way along with all sorts of countries all around the world that they're actively pursuing right now. they want to put a stop to that, and they want to put a stop to it as quickly as they possibly can. but clearly the buy a new ministration has a compliant delete gloss in africa amongst the elite for african countries who don't remember the bus. so don't choose to remember the bus. what tricks do you think of the united states hasn't been sleeve as what seems to be happening,

as you mentioned, and became of as of, i don't know, the spirit of san kara pack it with staff for goods. what is the united states going to do? is it going to go back to resulting do assassination of to a more recent fee? of course, the sponsoring of islamic politically is mc groupings to destabilize government. what do you expect by them to do as well? i'm definitely expecting them to double down on the sort of security packed type realities that they have set up. i mean, you see the french are removed from bali and the next one, you know, the us is talking to other west african countries like gonna and others about setting up a new military, you know, alliance or whatever, to continue to act in west africa, allegedly, against terrorism, but really what we see if they build up these massive militaries of these countries where the leaders are totally happy to let the people live completely in poverty. why they take all the money and all the holidays in europe,

in the united states. and then they use that military to repress their own people when they rise up and they say something. and i think that what we've seen as for as you say a class of a leads there. that's a very useful function that the west essentially be your body guard and we're seeing and zambia now. the expansion of u. s. military forces in that country we're seeing and you know, the, the non the country, the so called somali land being drawn further and further in the us war games and actually presenting itself to the united kingdom in the united states with their lobbyist as oh, well, help us get independence and will become, you know, a client state like this is actually what they're saying of the us in the region. they're saying we're reliable attribute is not reliable because they work with china. i think we're seeing a number of different countries, but also being another one, which is obviously moving in a more self determining direction. what you see to us constantly now it's sort of nipping around the edges of bertino pos. so to try to use military aid as a way to maybe bring them back in to, to the western camp. so i think the thing we can expect is be increased

militarization of the african continent. and when you look at, you know, the, you as well, which of course, working directly with the united states. let's remember that 1st live on the land. when she was the defense minister of germany, she was a huge advocate of building up the german military, specifically to have greater interventions in the african con that we're seeing did a lead is actually now acting as the so called coordinator of the anti terrorist. spite in mozambique and providing billions of the is along with france to find some of the elements that are going on there. so i think and washington and brussels, their response to africans rising up and saying, we want to no longer live in poverty in neil colonialism for another century. by doubling down on the militarization of the concepts using cotton to, to use their military forces to back these, these totally corrupt leads that know for a fact that the only way for them to stay in power since they won't deliver any development is, is through the barrel of a gun. well there is there one problem when it comes to these african countries.

but the problem is actually with china and russia and obviously our gcc countries, they never have conditionality. china and gcc certainly to electric santos. china doesn't say, well, if you're gonna become a proxy with united states, you're not going to get chinese investment. china just carries on the investment as does the side you regular in the u. a and gc countries. do you think some of these a global side of countries and china need to start making conditionality unlimited in the future investment plans? i think if they start to make conditionality in the future investment plans, they may lose some support in the african continent because i think even the africans who i have the opportunity to talk to who are you know, i, positional to their government. they never say to me, you know, i would, i really wish that china, or russia, or the us or whoever would come in here and change the government for me. they're out of to, to, is we want partners who, whoever the government of our country is. they're willing to work with us around what our priorities may be, and i think that's going to be the africa of the 21st century, is who is willing to actually work with africans. you know,

across the table as partners in a real way, which means you cannot actually dictate all of these other terms and all these other realities. and quite frankly, i would say for the countries that conditionality is working out pretty well for them right now, because they're seeing across the political spectrum. i mean, you look at a lot of countries in africa in this out in southern africa, you know, the left wing parties, the right wing parties, the centers parties, all of them. they have a certain level of appreciation for china, especially because of the role there place. but also for russia also for turkey, also for other countries, malaysia, others that are starting to do more on the african continent because they will tell you, we feel like they're actually treating our country as if we are equals not just subjects inside trop, is. and i think that that is the big shift we're going to see in africa in the next 10 or 15 years is anyone who is trying to say in order to get investment money or whatever from us, you have to do x, y, and z eats. they're going to continue to lose ground, and those were willing to say, hey, you're our interest. this is what we want from your country. how do you feel about that? let's negotiate and come to

a deal. whoever's on the other side of the table will work that out and there won't be any withdrawing or bringing things in based on governmental changes. those are the countries that are going to start to went out, and that we've already seen are gaining a significant amount of popularity all across the african continent. despite what you read in the western media, china, very popular in african continent, russia extremely popular in the african continent. now, all of these countries are gaining in terms of their popularity. and honestly, they have very close ties to them in ways that are also cultural. i mean, or you look at the as long which is huge in, in, in, in, uh, west africa of course. i mean that creates a special cultural ties to parts of west asia and different pieces like that. i think african countries want to start to explore more as they're talking about how to recover their culture. after all of these years of total destruction, they're looking for countries that also respect them at that level, not just the deacon nomic level, but that aren't looking to impose, you know, just a full westernization of how they live as well. just turning to the media, which presumably hasn't been covering any of these issues in that context. the tool,

what did you make of the fact that the amount of the yesterday or the african socialist movement has been uh, charge of detained for allegedly working with russian intelligence to interfere with us elections and only a tucker carlson once. or fox news mentioned it at the heritage foundation through right. when you heard just whether you have what exactly is going on amongst the but someone say of to leave my coffee. i to states of the media in your country. i would say it just shows that the mainstream media of the united states is, is, as you say in lock step with this mccarthy, i push coming from the government just like they were doing mccarthyism in the 1950s. and, you know, the new york times is the cnn's of the world. i mean, they become almost more, is that less than the us government and allegedly trying to root out this so called, you know, russian influence in the country. and you know, i would say, well, 1st and foremost like, let's say the government prove these things in court that they're saying about

amaya taylor. and let's see if they actually have the evidence. but on top of that, it reminds me of things like the internet research association and these other things where they're, these just, you know, completely of surcharges where it's not even really about does anyone get convicted? it's about just throwing mud and creating the perception that there's some a line influence and forces, but the bangs they're claiming that the, the african socialist party was doing because of russian influence. it's totally absurd. it just assuming any of that is true, just taking it at face value. i mean, they've been talking about reparation. they've been talking about all the things that allegedly they only did because of retrogression influence for 40 years. so the idea that somehow some guy writing a $500.00 check is, you know, creating this bid column for russia. and america is totally absurd. i am expecting these charges, you know, from my point of view, or i would say that i view them as a total chance total kangaroo court. but the very fact that the media is not calling this out for exactly what it is. shows that from julia and assigned to a malia to tailor to everything that's happening. these would be russia gates, that there is

a lot step coordination between the intelligence community and the mainstream media in the united states. your gene gray. thank you. you have that's it for the show. remember, we're bringing you new episodes every saturday on monday, but until then you can keep in touch my role as social media, if it's not sensitive in your country. and i had to add channel going underground tv on rumbled up. com to watch new and old episodes of going underground season the, the, which i thought there were some openings to install their slug restaurants. because right now, let's see what they thought is going to look ukraine. this. the post is all the 50 is that i, it's a get a minute. some other things i need which is easy to so on the screen. so of course