fighters against the colonial regime were supported by the soviet union and china. whereas the united states and great britain took the side of the invaders. the board to gaze responded to the guerrillas attacks with cruel counter insurgency. however, pre limos 10 year courageous struggle was a success after the overthrow of the fascist regime in portugal in 1974, the new authorities surrendered. a year later, lisbon fully recognized the independence of mozambie. but the victory had been gained at a high price during the war, mozambique had lost tens of thousands of his sons and daughters, the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the hello and welcome to cross off were all things are considered. i'm peter level. why isn't there any public debate on the competing ukraine? why have the lead to embrace to war and shun negotiations? where's the anti war movement? and more importantly, how is all of this helping ukraine? and it's people, the cross walk in the west and ukraine. i'm joined by my guess michael, my loop and rest and he's a former opinion guns, senior security policy analysts in winnipeg, we have alan freeman. he is called director of the international manifesto group as well as a researcher at the university of manitoba in canada. and in ox sorted, we crossed to roger mackenzie. he is an international editor, i gentleman comstock rolls, and i think that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated,

michael, let me go to you 1st here, i'm titling this program sacrificing ukraine, proposed there was a very interesting article the new york times a few days ago. titled the u. s. should be a vote force for peace in the world. well, i think we should all agree with that, but one of the most, the most important take away in the context of ukraine and leads is this sentence here, 2 sentences and diplomacy? well, one must attempt strategic empathy seeking to understand one's adversaries. this is not weakness, it is wisdom. and i can think of a better way to encapsulate the madness that we're all experiencing, michael, as well. we're just saying the opposite of we've been at war for 22 years, plus, and i don't see any ending to it any in terms of the united states. but it's, it's, it's driven by ideology. it's also driven by a hoax. and, and it's a hoax that the democrats have to live with. and since the united states remains

the super power of the world, whatever it does says, or grieves at or thinks, that's what rules these days. and it's a, it's a, and we're seeing this now with a, we're seeing rebellion to this notion in the world by other countries such as the bricks. now, the se, in countries that want to divest themselves of the us dollar, and that's just of the matter of how other countries of the world are sick and tired of the us constantly at war a what the noise in their economies and, and driving and, and driving the world into a constant frenzy on the brake of a default on our end and, and also depression on there. and so it's, it's, something's got to give and, and we're seeing that the, the, the preston, united states, as, as the in lock step with this administration. they're actually controlled by this administration. and when you have something like this and, and you don't have

a posing voices, and they're being kept down because we weaponized their own law enforcement. and it's, it's, it's a sad state. and so at least other countries are beginning to rebuild. and i would like to see more of that. yeah. well, and i mean, that's what, that's a good segue to what i wanted to ask about, you know, in my introduction, you know, where's the anti war movement? i mean, this isn't a leak project with, you know, people, they, there's no debate. i mean, i remember, you know, with the ad they run up to the iraq war. there was a lot of debate that was a lot of protesting. that was, i didn't, and it was on a national television. it was in the newspapers. eventually these people got shut down, but it did happen. there were protest, particularly in europe here. what is happening so just because of the internet and you can control what people see in here, alan? yeah, well, i think the basic problem is that we don't live in a democratic society in the west. now that's a truism, right? it could be a trophy, and so you just saying that, but in the following sense,

there is a systematic sentiment of opposition to the will in the west. if you look at the polls, they're all between 20 and 50 percent of the population. in some cases, even though i have such as of trip, who don't want to, well why don't negotiations, they find no expression in any problem entry potty. that means that 20 percent of the population have no representation and ball, and then they would be 30 and pays the liberties call them and they would be 20 in the us, solomon. they would be 50 or so in the canadian call them. and god knows how many in the gym and call them, and if there was a real representation. now what's happened? and the reason for this is the policies were the original idea of a coffee is it represents what the people want to say. they've been turned into the opposite. they tell the people what the room is. welcome to do that. she's very clear. let me give you just one example. there was a very big group for them,

pays in the british light of policy. and we know how big the support for that. so to view is because of the but the jeremy cold and go in the last election. and they wanted to assign a declaration, calling for peace that's of calling for peace issued by the stuff the woman. they were told that if they did that they would be expelled from the light about that kind of thing. you look at the way the democratic elections are conducted. i mean, i'd be very interested to see what other people think of the candidacy of robot kennedy who has come out to negotiations and how he will fail, but he's already coming under the full. so media. yeah, well he's, he's a perfect example of how you crush someone. i mean, i mean, a man of that kind of political pedigree. it's really amazing here. let me go to roger here. you know, i've written kind of echoing what alan was saying. we had the foreign minister of germany, angelina, better bach. she said she didn't care with her constituent style when it came to ukraine. that's a, uh, that's uh, actually exactly what alan said here. but you know what, roger,

what's really pathetic is that they get away with it. okay. and you know, i, for months and months and months meeting up to this complex every single program i recorded here on cross lock on r t. moore and everyone. a conflict is coming and when it came, what, what was the result? not that i was right, is that i was censored and i was deleted from youtube. this, these are the people were dealing with roger. i think it's really easy to have this discussion. and i kind of very global, no sense. hi, when, when actually, when you look at the support for this war across the world, most of the world does not support um what, what the us and the allies a doing fine and to the last drop of ukrainian blood. basically, most people don't support obama, and so i think when we're talking about whether or not there's a um, does that make sense

a piece across the world. we shouldn't just talk about it in terms of why the u. k. m in a, the us what's going on that and even then actually that, that is a and certainly in the you, k is a very vibrant and see we'll move on still in here. well, they don't get is a publicity, because that's within the control of that and the liberals that control the media and so on. and organizations of the media atlas, progressive media outlets don't get the same attention bus actually across the world. there's a movement pace taking place that has message. my people want to say a negotiated settlement, the understands the security concerns of russia, the underst times that the, the way that the us is trying to have yet to know the proxy will and have this

is just one more in a step towards the next come slate gray, china over tie one bullet st. but brought sir, you speak the words of wisdom and reason. okay. and national interest here. let me go back to, to michael here. and that's a problem here. so we, it's meal liberalism, roger is absolutely right, but it's an, a messianic, neo liberalism. but what they do is it's being created into a binary, any kind of negotiation is, is negotiate and the go sharing with the devil. that's how they've framed that it's a binary. that's why we're never going to get anywhere until the, the, the, the last soldier dies on the field. michael. well, hi. so i am seeing the world reacting. we are, people are beginning to really react against the us led unipolar world order. and we're seeing that it's just being accelerated now because of ukraine. i 1st saw begin when the trump dropped out of the j. c. po, way you knew right then and there, there was a benchmark moment. i was in a ron when it happened. and you could tell me the whole attitude,

the whole atmosphere, just change that we are in for a big change. and that's what's beginning to happen. now, and we're seeing the saw, the, the saudis, and, and the you a switching over a away from the us dollar. i mean, all of this is trending. but to get to your point i, i'm working with a group of retired generals who wants to bring peace school, say more, they've had enough of it. and it, and, and there has to be an alternative. but you're also dealing with idea logs in this country under the, by the administration then, and they are still leading. and that's uh, victoria newland and, and, and by and himself who, who actually prompted and, and, and encouraged the crew in 2014 in ukraine because they see they see ukraine as the last investigative ultimately trying to contain russia. if not, bring about regime change there and it is, it is a dying effort. you see

a tory newland on, on the air talking about the encouraging the bombing of, of, of crimea. i mean, this and droning crimea, i mean this, this is going on and on until we can get rid of this administration. but now that's in question because everyone's questioning the integrity of our elections. and democracy has gone in this country. we, we, we pay lip service to it, but it's, it's a, it's, it's a tragedy. how events have turned. we don't have a country anymore. we don't have a, we don't have a southern border. we've lost our sovereignty. yeah, we're defending the border of ukraine. this is preposterous and the american people are rightfully concerned about this, but they have their own, the problems, they have, they have inflation, they've got to deal with all self inflicted by the, by the administration. well, that's the control that's exert control. that's exactly the point. now in the rush, it was supposed to be punished here, but what these neo liberal leads have done is punish their own people. of course

these, the leads never feel the pain. allen, a lisa chosen by the ruling class, which is the property owners. that's what, what else to realize. we live in a society in which the dominant class, which is the property and is choose the state. and then the state tells everybody wants to using the coffee system. so santiago says the thing is not to lawful cry, but understand and i would say organize, you have to rebuild the movement of the left in my opinion, because i don't think the right is going to provide the solution which will actually organize people to recognize the interest do not lie in a pressing, they have fellow workers and people abroad. so you know, so, but kennedy puts it, you cannot have a democracy or imply because both. so if you get people to begin to understand the empire is inimical to the interest of ordinary folk in europe, in america, in japan, in australia, then you will begin to get well, because the problem is, or the left to the left and right have forgotten about the issue of class i'm

a conservative class is a very important issue, but the leads don't want to talk about a gentleman. i have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the west and ukraine state without the same rom just don't you have to shape how's it comes to after kids and engagement trails. when so many find themselves world support, we choose to look so common ground the the

russian states never is as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. most all sun set up the in the system must be the one else calls. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center for question, did you say a request which is the welcome that's across stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter, let's remind you were discussing the west end ukraine.

the ok, let's go to roger. an officer here. one of the, the biggest difference, a major departure from the cold war is that the western relates led by the united states. obviously have decided to go toe to toe with a peer or near peer power. that was something in, during the cold war, which was a big no, no, you can fight on the periphery, even have proxy wars and all that. but what, what we see with this administration and it's like, these are new or my apologies allen and roger. but it's, it's, it's, it's very true. okay, so this is what makes it very dangerous because the u. s. is actually attempting a peer to peer $1.00 to $1.00 conflict. and at one point the russians may react. i'll tell you living in this country, a lot of people want

a stronger reaction to the bar to the the droning of crime in these cross border attacks on towns. they're, they're the west has it shouldn't. for a conflict here in ukraine is the trigger. roger. yeah, absolutely. and nothing can the prevention of these was it that just front of site training for these new crime they have thoughts upon us to use. that's sixteen's. i'm so and they do i sign my when i even gonna provide them with, with the way of very happy for allies to provide the these planes. so we've been a showed by um, oh yeah. and yeah, i'm not going to use them as a russian is, i mean, this is just nonsense. you know, in the end we can either rely on politicians to just wake up one morning and do the right thing. well, we can understand. but in the end, the engine of real change is working class people, and that's what we get. i have to mobilize is always about organizing how we're going to get people to stand up and do something about this running the system that we're on the now we're looking at, we have this,

which is faced with continuous heat pump to say the united states was really angry because the, because china got involved helped to broker a paste. it's a inside the right if you have any room at the same time, they all they move haven't enough have and, and, and to try and get some sort of a safe spot again along side to side is trying to get a safe spot in the sea. down at the moment, not really hard, but you'll, you'll never find that they have done a single thing to try and get any kind of pay some measurements sorted within a crime, despite the sense of china, despite the efforts of the, the african mission that, that's also being launch, they are absolutely ruthless and they said they had been telling people this figure is actually about what it is, the airbags and this was the full spectrum dominance approach to the united states

. they have to have this policy for years. they are clear that anything that comes remotely close to interrupt, saying that at economic military political dominance at the well, they will come down hard on. so that's why that coming down, hold on russia. and that's why they're coming down hard on china. and we just have to white people up to this, so it's an organizing mission in the end for all of us. well, well, well michael, max byron, government jump in, michael, go ahead. yeah, it's back firing. because what, what, what the world the world is beginning to recoil it's, it's evolving and it's going to be accelerating. i've seen it with the, with countries that want to join brooks with this, this alternative to world order the multi polar world order. that's beginning to a 2 o'clock to come up with a c and countries. 10 of them just said they're going off the us dollar. uh, that's significant. that is very significant. so they are beginning to recoil against uh, this,

this geometry by the united states. and because because of the weapon ization of economies and control that the, by the administration has thought over over the world, look, they didn't do europe any favorites. look what it's done to europe. yeah. made them a basket case. yeah. and, and then walk into what is going toward asia now. oh, the says, i mean, this is quite remarkable. michael, this is what the us does to its friends. okay. so not our phones. okay. like that of course are like what i agree to that friends is they blow up bad part lines. that's what they do to their friends as well. so that's all part of the part part of the part of the game. but now in, but i wonder, you know, i, m, i, uh, i studied history, that was my, my academic area. and that's the scholarly and, you know, looking at world history, i can think of a case, maybe you can wear a hedge, you mind just as high. so you're right. i've changed my mind,

which all be for us. that's not happening. i'm agreeing with all of you here, but ahead to me on doesn't walk away. i had your mind will probably create as much chaos as possible and bring everybody else down with him. our. but we're basically oscillating. or peter, i don't think you're a conservative. i think you're a rationalist rationality, so if we need rationality stops, in fact, the usaa is not the headphone. it's an inspiring benjamin. there's filed in the no, no, no, no, no, no, it's the declining catch him on. i think we could all agree with that. this is the point now we're going to make this has been declining the grocery usaa. it's been declining since 1960. it's now the euro. don't listen to the people to call what is basic is that kind of balance and say it's doing well. you look at the average g, d p growth of the u. s. i is on the world, and that is what's behind the difficulty. the problem is not that china is a threat to the us. the us is a threat to the us. that's bringing about

a fundamental change because it can no longer even feed his own people by robbing the rest of the world. and the people will wake up to that. and there are cases with us up and you studied history. look at portugal, 9074 or germany. 1919. those were the only cases in the west when that would be revolutionary movements of working people, the vice return government. sorry about that, started with the when i realized i couldn't, we was now when the realization hits the this is not a who the night co panels can when i thing you'll see a see change. what we have to do is build from the ground up to the movies that recognizes that you kind of reconcile inbox with democracy. and when that happens, i think you'll see quite launch movements, emoji. that will be a powerful effect on rationality and, and hopefully, you know, the result will be done in a peaceful way and peaks in somewhere in the state. we've seen people from the military who assigned, you know, this doesn't make sense. fellow rush list,

the sign. this is not the way to do things. hopefully this will happen peacefully, but whatever, if they keep suppressing it, they going to produce funds. look at paris, look at both. look at the situation. my call is in. think of about generalizing. so what we hope is the reason prove vials and the reason profiles, peaceful profile. well i, i'm really glad my comments triggered you like that because you are quite, quite, um, uh, i think, prophetic and, and, and very descriptive of what's going on right now. good job. well done. let's go to roger and oxford with you. okay, i want to push back a little bit here. we had the co bench locked downs. we had censorship on a massive scale. we know the, the powers that be, were very much involved in the well so called russia gate hugs. i mean, the deck is stacked against as roger as much as we may want to organize. and i'm a conservative, but i can deal very easily with progressives on this issue. but then this is what

the powers that be want they want to separate is always put us in our little boxes and keep us away from each other. and that's one of the reasons this program exists is to bring a wide group of people together on the issues where we can bind commonality. go ahead, roger, but i think, i think we should also have got going back to. well, i'm one of my 1st comments about looking at this through a wider lens round of them through a global knowles effectively. because i, i think that we really need to use organizing strengths, use all of that kind of technology that's, that is now available to us such as even being able to do this call i, but use the facilities that we've got to engage more with active as in the global science who have said that they're not prepared to put up with a continual role of the,

the united states being told that they could only trade in the us dollar basically that they pitched all that stuff. and i think we need to link in with them because i think it forever to say we'll try it. and it's gonna come about because people have organized not just in the global knowles, but haven't linked in with a similar progressive full says i'm from the global sites as well. so i've gone really optimistic actually, cuz i, i see a lot of people rising up. i see a lot of people who are not prepared to just put up with and the way that it's always been and i'm looking for a new world really bad looking for a new way of organizing things. so that the minute i step a line that the united states is not able to decide what we're just going to not issue with a lot of bunch of sanctions against it. because i wouldn't be able to do that if there's a, it's with the, the dollar wise ation is taking place, sized massive, massive shift that's taking place on really optimistic that we're going to say some real change. but only i think if we make sure the outlines isn't just about the

global, nope, but it's all about assess, well, roger, you didn't, you can see them. but i can michael in our and or giving thumbs up. we didn't get in complete agreement. me to all right. oh michael, where, where do we go from here? because again, and it's, you know, if you ask people in the west, you know how, how important is he craned to you? it's really low. you know, it's, it's not, it's in double digits, right? now, but it continues here and we, and like i said earlier, rush, it was supposed to be published economically, but their own people are and, but can they tolerate dissent? after all, you know, as a lensky is the, you know, the, the, the future of democracy and prosperity, maybe the, all this garbage that we hear on a, on a regular basis. go ahead, michael. no, i think i think as long as the they keep up the pressure that was just described from the global south, the global north and basically isolate the united states so that it becomes a,

just a speck of what it used to be. and in terms of uh, trying to take over the world or, or, or force other countries, it's a submission. i think that this is going to be the key plus unique countries. and people within the countries now the 2 to form a ground swell of opposition to this war in any other wars, because they're, they're, they're, they're obsolete. and, and we, we are seeing this, we thought we thought was vietnam. that's of the vietnam war, ultimately ended, people got sick of it. i mean, and there was no, no, uh, and game toward, toward that war except all ideologically inclined individuals who wanted to defeat something that was not, was not the case, no domino series occurred. and that's, and we're seeing an overlay today of, of the united states still trying to make those comparisons with,

with russia towards europe and equate him the quite put in with get where it doesn't exist. but yet the other 3rd trying to leave what we're all saying share and for this things to change the, this is there has to be an utter failure on the part of the west because it is north, south dimension, near gentleman. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess investment when to pay and, and oxford. i don't want to take our viewers for watching us here in our to see you next time. and remember, press on rules, the now look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're so shorter is it conflict with the 1st law? should we live in justification? we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to create

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