the luxembourg office of the public accounting giant price waterhouse coopers from 2008 to 2010. he saw his job as one of being on the side of the regulators of keeping the honest people honest. instead, he found a massive system of fiscal optimization, allowing large multinational corporations to avoid paying taxes in countries where they were conducting business. that's called income tax evasion. it might also be called conspiracy in 2011 and $1.00 resign from p w c. but before leaving, he downloaded documents detailing tax deals that the firm had brokered with the luxembourg government, allowing companies to funnel billions of dollars through luxembourg, thereby slashing corporate tax bills by billions of dollars in the countries in which they were based on which they did business and twan shared the documents with a french journalist who used them as the basis for a television documentary. and soon after p w. c filed a complaint with the luxembourg court,

when the international consortium of investigative journalists began reporting on the more extensive luxembourg leaks, or lux leaks case, criminal charges were filed against n one facing 5 years in p. ready and later, 10 years in prison and one was convicted in december, 2014. he was sentenced to a 12 month suspended prison term and a find a 1500 year old. he appealed, but his conviction was upheld. undaunted, he appealed again. and in january 2018, the court of cessation recognized him as a whistle blower and dismissed all of the charges. even before he won his appeal, the european parliament recognized antoine as a whistle blower and awarded him the european citizens prize in 2015 and one we are honored to have you on the show. thank you so much for joining us. you're welcome. you know, let's start at the beginning. you were a young auditor at price waterhouse coopers, one of the largest and most important big for professional services firms in the

world. take us back to that time. what did you see that made you think something was wrong? and when did you see it? yes, it was my 1st professional experience. it was in 2008 from 2008 to 2010. and i was just a junior user. so my work was uh, just to make uh, financial audits. uh, which consists in uh, verifying the accuracy of the accounts of my hands. uh so the kinds of people you see in looks numbered were mainly belonging to the financial sector. and what i discovered there was that's most, hey, let's say, oh, that makes sense. um, where in luxembourg i me for the textbook, pause. so obviously i,

i wasn't totally naive when i applied to a job in mix numbers and use that's a tax advantage. were lots of look some brokerage activity, but what i found out as a junior auditor that's is that most of my science has no real economic activity, no employees, no turnover, and uh, and had specific agreements close as on sticks agreements also goes next. readings in reach, look, sunbrook that's that's, i mean 3 administration approved some very, very, as the damages of inches a tax practice is just to give an example. for one of the firm i was a teaching i found out that effective tax rates was one around 3

percent instead of the normal x rays around 20 or 50 persons. so it was a choice, very, very low. and that's was a road bike. i think the tax administration, which approved, obviously is the tax treatments. can you tell us what exactly p w c was doing to help companies avoid taxes? and what was the luxembourg government's role in all this? to choose um, people use bots. uh, as i know these are because i need to verify the accounts, but the so is this is a trouble fee or the uh, deposits the service is so uh an advisory and tax departments that provide the professional services including tax advice. um, so just to make it simple, uh,

you have to imagine that's what it was told, at least national companies operating in europe have a, an entity in luxembourg that is used to lower their textbook. and i, so the way you see has the knowledge of us, it's most of national towns and, uh, and it's really well informed to, to, to provide the tax advice and how to lower as, as a, as a tax do. and, and, and what is the advice was to, to set up a look some burg, uh, entity, a that had new p o economic activity. uh, but uh, that's a, was asking a tax agreements to the tax authorities. so the suspects every month is a as soon as he go and is used to just

approved in advance, which would be the tax treatments of for some, sometimes complex. uh, operations is a um, a credit ballinger uh, considerations. it's gonna be very complex this way. sometimes you need is a, the approval of, of use and 3 of the authorities to lever and the legal risk you used to take. but that's what was, are really shocking in luxembourg is this is it. that's is the system of admin specs that agreements was used to, to, to, to approve the reading and receive text practices and was some interpretation of for international ethics rules. so that's it could be effect in other countries because it was a really a,

it was going to far to and then i just good and i, i found those use in 2000 and then a, as in the context that's maybe quite similar is the current context, it was the context of post financial increase is, is a very strong database about the public budgets, especially in greece. greece has a very strong pressure to, uh, to cuts us endings, uh, ends with uh, increasing inequalities with many people struggling to, to have access which stations from who have a and, and, and in my opinion. so it was a direction between the difficulties of governments to collect enough resources to

face because he's and, and what i was observing in looks and broke was big motivation. most was huge. profits was most no tax paid. i spent 4 years at the lloyd, then it was the lloyd and touche that was one of price waterhouse coopers, major competitors. so i know what kind of training you went through. it was the same as my training. we were taught that if you see something illegal were unethical, you must reported immediately. you go through the chain of command or through the ethics officer. and if your chain of command is involved in the illegal or on ethical behavior, you go to the government. what was the process that you went through to report the wrong doing? and when did you decide to go to the media? actually, i say there are many steps. and so the 1st one was my food understanding of a single case. because i, i, i of things that more and more often,

i mean my, my work, and the once i audited mesa's as a junior id to her, because i already did my search for small entity. and i had the full, uh um, there's a google picture of what was going on between the of the entities as a group. and i found out that's also prophy if that's for shifted to look some burglar and that's, that's anywhere. so then i have the cues that's, that's some thing was going wrong. and then i kind of lost my motivation in my work because i didn't phones the social utility. i was looking for an inmate in my work. so i decided to resign. but since it's a day before my last day, i was searching the significance of firm and and i found a folder containing a hundreds of text readings. and this was absolutely not normal

because um, uh, the 4 uh, uh, protects very or should protects very strongly these. uh, the dates are concerned exec hands. and so this phone service, uh, any, without any protection was just uh, a free access. uh uh the network. so i decided you took a pc so these folder and thats moving precisely what they would do with this information. and it's true, that's not money i should have um for us to a to, to my uh, this is internally uh we think because what you see and, and find someone to, to, to, to, to tell my concerns. um, but and if it does work, i may maybe, uh a share this information with the government. but in this case,

both as a firm and as a government was involved in these next meetings, so that there was no grounds, tu, tu, tu, tu, tu, tu blows? and we fell. we between 2 to 2, he's a entity, so i so what i decided is to 1st to, to make sure. so it's my own understanding of the textbook just isn't it looks and berg was right. so i, i, i tried to contact some into use uh, originally involved in a text and i to us in europe just to make sure that's what they found was a program was really a program. and, and then i tried to, i'm in there earlier, just to say, i know you will see another read your program and on a, on a blog just to share probably she may, may come sounds,

but it's anonymous. and then a journalist investigate you've done that is working for french tea, contacted me because he reads one of a, a disease. so comments on a blog and uh and the, he thought i was waiting for him. so he wants it tomorrow and i accepted to meet him and and i decided to share as a huge amount of absence. next agreement i had, i share the information with him. and he investigated a and a tv program was a book tested in false and it was so in your case about the people you see the expertise easy, it looks numbered and then uh the documents are shared. we c, i, c, h a. and this led to the so called look, some borges looks like

a story which involves the dozens of the toner used to runs a welding the over the continuance. and that's and who we exist today. t, the some cases like i'm at the april and i can get the piano cook for now. it's, it's right. and let's say over most of the brands, you know, as a consumer or an involved and deliverance involved in the, the size of the you can assume that they have almost the same textbook disease, always the nose or the need for a company. that's why it was a system, it's a issue that's could be c t's on the public. see was a was and it was a work of investigating the federal next. once you went to the press and provided

documents to prove your allegations, did you think the experience was over? were you surprised that the government took legal action against you? i felt that there's a source, i was product seats and such was the plan. uh yes i read. yeah i, i thought that that my boss was over and the page is the right thing to do and, and, and that it was the end of the story and my thoughts and the, and it says it says a t for run was booked at book tested in 2012 and and 2 or 3 years past and see 2014. no, nothing more. and so this is a time busing i, i was thinking that's a, was a risk. i have taken a dense realize that let's say that says i had, i didn't have to suffer any consequence of,

of having blooms will be. so i both in 2014, so 2 years after i show the difference and that i, i realize that like some burg authorities launched a proceedings against me against a no service of over. i say that a and also against a strong i just it walked down. we're speaking with famed european was a blower entwined del tour. we're going to take a short break and come back with more of our conversation. stay with us. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the 1937 militaristic japan started up full scale invasion of china. the

invading army was rapidly advancing towards the capital of the republic of china, of the dies, the city of nursing, leaving behind the burned down villages and thousands of the dead. on december 13th, the japanese occupied dungy and states real massacre for 6 weeks, the invaders exterminated the civilian population. they carried out mass.