were meeting as chairman and robert reuben was the one to be named german of the board. that's it. yeah, that's how what my warnings to the board meeting. so the next day on saturday, november the 3rd, sitting at my kitchen table. i put together an e mail, i addressed it to robert reuben, who was, was name chairman of the board the next day. i also sent it to the major executives, the chief auditor, the chief financial officer, the chief risk officer. and i told them the story about how i'd been if, when warnings for a year and a half. wow. because i knew under sarbanes oxley, i knew they were legally bound to tell the board can count investors

that those as fraudulent activity going on. well, it's a, uh, i got their attention, all right. i subsequently to not to come back to the banks and this is not a fun time in my life. i imagine not going back to that period. you were clearly a detail person. you were looking at the numbers, the charge, the graphs, the complicated data related not just the economy, of course, but to the banks holdings and loans. you saw this troubling pattern. you went to the banks, executives about it. and the reaction then was well at the beginning to just ignore you. why is it, why is it that they chose to ignore you? because obviously they have access to the same kind of information that you had. you are the one who were supposed to who was supposed to be sort of the, the, the analyst for them. so why, why did they just dismiss you?

and no one could argue with what i was saying. like these are just technical exception channels. there's, there's no either, this is tony, you know, we're gonna have watches on this course. this was while the bubble was still expanding and you have those losses. and i said, okay, if it's, if it's simply a policy issue, it's technically against parts and change the policy was i couldn't do that. but the real reason in hindsight, john is this was a very possible business model of buying defective mortgages and selling them. and by the way, this wasn't just was, this was with other mortgages. the other mortgage companies were doing this to on a very wide spread stages. and this was drawing off from, in this amount of incentive compensation that went into all of the managers pockets

. so if they were going to take any action on what i was yelling about, they would've had to have each again shut down this very profitable business model. and of course, you know that that would have personally been pretty honors to uh, to some of the executives in law. so they, they, they to continue collecting money and ignore me. but i wasn't through what city? well i'm, i'm curious when things began to turn for you personally, you were providing information based on years of experience and analysis of the data that could potentially have saved citigroup billions of dollars. but as often happens with whistle blowers you were silenced, you were essentially suspended and thrown out. at what point did that happen when

citigroup turned on you? were things already going down the drain economically? or was this still at the, at the height of the bubble? as you said, this was still really at the height of the boat. why did it get it? not completely turned. yeah, it was, it was starting to and you know, if, if any one paid any attention to what i was talking about, you know, the numbers were climbing the delinquencies. uh, uh, you know, the 1st payment, the falls uh they were going up. again. it hadn't fully hit me yet, but there was no doubt where this is going to be. at least let's talk about your mindset at the time you had been paid to do a job to advise the bank based on the economic data. you had done exactly that. your 1st ignored and then actively punished. when did you decide? all right, i've had enough. i'm going to go to the authorities and,

and this is really for my own edification. did you consider yourself to be a whistle blower at the time? you know, yeah, no, i didn't know what i learned as it was obvious. this was going to blow up. it was my responsibility. i took this very personal way that i needed to warn them. i mean, that was my job. i was a business chief of the wire. um and after they had thrown me out and i wanna end up. that's when i want to have this is this has got to be stopped before it, you know, really clauses advocate in the car. right. and that's when i went and i testified for 2 dates while before t c in washington. um i actually gave them this was in july of 2008. i actually gave them a 1000 pages, documents showing the man sheep for and that was going on within the city. and

these, these young prosecutors in the room for some of the vision they got really excited me. and i always, we are going to show this. and then 3 months later i then i never heard anything from them. 3 months later was when citigroup was bailout in 3 separate day allowance, where they received close to $500000000000.00 in capital in toxic asset guarantees. plus they received another $2.00 trillion dollars of secret low interest loans from the federal reserve. we never found out about that to a years like man at the end of the united states. government took ownership and they did not nationwide, but they took ownership of 36 percent of the world's largest bank.

and the fcc has refused that they've locked up my testimony. they were really nice and, and there's, there been many request under the freedom of information act release. some of the, you know, testimony that i gave them and they have totally refused saying that the documents are confidential and trade secrets. so i guess that includes the fraudulent representations which were given to the purchasers. a mortgage backed securities, which the ccs on public website where the securities were registered. richard, please stay with us. we're speaking to sitting group whistle blower. richard bowen about his actions during the economic crisis of 20082009. stay tuned. we have

a lot more to come. 2 2 2 the a small business invest a bulk no issue. but for the mobile, when you go annual g d p per capita is about 4000 euros scholars in a mobile cuz i really watched here. uh this me a lot of man, uh i got an apartment across the ceiling from where this really into photo. mm hm. so just letting them old, along with this nonsense nature, little spot the, the single, the thought of unemployment is off the charts. most of us territorial integrity and sovereignty. we respect the country which enjoys financial support from the us and

the you is constantly roles by political and corruption scandals. but all that didn't stop lo, google obtaining a new candidate status in 2022. the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we're speaking with city group west of lower richard bowen, who tried repeatedly to warn the bank bad prime and subprime mortgage loans could sink the company. as the economy began to slow, he was ignored and then punished for his revelations, even though he did it in exactly the way that he was supposed to do it. richard, thanks again for being with us that. thank you, john. richard, i'm curious as to how far the company went to punish you for your revelations. it

seems that so many big companies as well as government agencies simply don't care that we have whistleblower protection laws in the united states. the revelations you made should have been protected by law. so what happened once the company lashed out to you? i know that you eventually went to the government accountability project. one of the most important whistleblower groups in the, in the united states is that when it happened well the, um i actually i did not originally go to the government accountability project. i'm very sorry that i didn't, i wasn't aware of in the beginning. i started out with 2 separate attorneys and this is one thing i caution everyone about is i get good legal representation. my attorneys are very quickly figured out which side of the bread the butter was on,

and it was not my side. and then i was later introduced to the government accountability project, which i know you're familiar with. oh yes. and they absolutely wonderful when they took over with their marshal and they started guiding me through this quite frankly, that's one of the reasons i think i survive the ordeal. is because i have the government accountability project on my back. and they have the, with their legal prowess they, they protected me and really i great group of people. yes. yeah. they are. tell us more about your testimony before the securities and exchange commission. and then later, the financial crisis inquiry commission. at what point in your whistle blowing, did that happen, and what was the reaction from your former bosses and colleagues at city group? well understand i was already gone when i was growing out. i guess this was in the

early, 2008. and i really had no interaction with the uh, with my former colleagues and quite frankly they um, they were very cautious of interacting with me also because i obviously had quite a stigma with the bank. um, but you were talking about the cc, you know, if you, you could, if you think about it and you can sort of understand what the c c was doing. and this is a, a sad observation. but if they ever did release any of the 1000 pages of documents that i gave to them, then they would basically have to admit that the united states government had full knowledge of the massive fraud that was going on within citigroup before they pay you the amount and that's why they have continued to cover this up to date,

in spite of many request under the freedom of information that they still will not release any of those documents. richard, a psychologist to study, whistle blowers have concluded that they have a very highly defined sense of right and wrong. far more highly defined than the general population. but at the same time, people who blew the whistle on wrong doing almost never make of financial. come back. how have you fared in the 14 years since you blew the whistle? it city. ok. well, i will tell you the um, i became a professor little county at the united at the university of texas, dallas. and i attribute that to my sanity to be able to work with these young people. and i am a cpa, i have the accounting background and to be able to work with these young people in the end,

why to prepare them to at least be conscious and aware when they join corporate cultures. and so that is, that is really now i recently retired from the university and i still speak on the subject on ethics. but um, you know, my, my being able to be a professor. i actually was a, was a haven and helped me as i finished up, as a matter of fact, when i went to the c c. and when i ultimately testified, and we haven't talked about the she had before the financial crisis in for a commission. i was, i was a professor at the university of texas without excellent and are what was their reaction like because, you know, it's, it's so often that uh, that really any large organization, including universities,

are risk of risk averse. and here they've got a professor who is in the news he's testifying before the securities and exchange committee for commission rather on something that's arguably the biggest economic story of the last 75 years. they were okay with that. they treated you well understand. i never told the university, i did tell a few people that i was testifying before the cc. the only time it was widely known that i had testified was after i had testified the funding and inquiry commission and received all the publicity that went along with that. so it is the, it, the school has been very, very supporting the, the, the dean of the school of management has been aware of everything that is going on and he has, he has supported me as well as the, the rest of the,

the rest of this little, little ministration of it, and then some spanish been exceptionally rewarding. it truly hash, ma'am. i want to tell you about an experience that i had with the securities and exchange commission and i want to get your reaction to it. i was the chief investigator on the senate foreign relations committee from 2009 to 2011. and there was a large scale ponzi scheme that had taken in thousands of americans for billions of dollars. and so the c c was supposedly investigating this thing, i wanted to at least begin an inquiry up on capitol hill. and so i went to the c. c for a, a, a previously scheduled meeting. they, they wouldn't let me in, in. no, i had scheduled a meeting in advance. i had transferred my security clearance to the cc just so that there wouldn't be a problem. but they would only meet me in the lobby of the building. and then after

the meeting was over and i went back to my office in the senate, they emailed me and asked very politely, if i would please drop my inquiry, i wouldn't. and they went over my head and they called the chairman of the committee, who was senator john kerry at the time my, my boss. and he forced me to drop the inquiry. what was the reception like for you at the c c? because the, the reason i ask this is the fcc is supposed to be the good guys here. this is what they're, they're in the position to do to investigate these kinds of allegations. it sounds like you had not such a great experience. i certainly had not such a great experience, but i'd like to hear your side of it. know again from my side of it, they were initially they had tremendous initial enthusiasm. as again, these investigators, these the, some of these were prosecutors in the room for smart division. they got very

excited when i was talking to them and going through the evidence that i was giving them. and who was only later, you know, very short while later that obviously they received word from on high that they were to drop this and cover it up there there's, that's the only explanation. so really hearing here testimony was, was never made public know then people were subsequently, you know, now they have refused continuously to risk to release any of the 1000 pages of documents that i gave to them. and there's been, there's been a number of publication in new york times actually investigated, everything that happened. and in september of 2013, they actually wrote a full page op add in their sunday edition, explaining what it happened to richard bowen and how he had been muscle. and it was

a boy not only as the fcc, but also at the financial crisis inquiry commission. i would like to thank our guests, richard bohn for joining us and thank you to our viewers for tuning in. there are very few people or companies who are publicly opposed to us. so blowing after all was the blowing is always in the public interest. but support for whistle blowers is usually the exception. rather than the rule. the economist magazine said many years ago, whistle blowing is good for society, but bad for careers. it should be good for both. that's where we come in. evidence of waste, fraud, abuse or illegality should be shouted from the rooftops, just like richard. but what did or we're right there wrong. let's keep it up. i'm john carrie outgoing. you've been watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 2 the,

the top headlines right now and i'll to international as a rushes, defense of ministry size, the check engine, military unit, a cold, ok, lots has been ordered to be offensive and don't fast. while in odessa, as we understand russian forces, funk ukraine's last naval ship, also heading this program on speech, something was stopped by the american or any other overseas ambassador. then in general, you need to know your place and not getting to other people in affairs. we never violate international norms for our western colleagues. do violate rushes at 4 minutes. so taking a swipe at west, in attitudes during a store of africa while hailing independent decision making for the confidence,

the kind of washington tries to convince new delhi to join the next tov plus alliance. beijing says the us must still trying to pitch in the against china . the all righty, mid week of the world continued to spit. and despite all the yards a lot to tell you today it's odd to international, by the way, the traction a come up. the forces units have now been cool to go on the offensive in on bass. this is all according to the russian ministry of defense, and also added that ukraine's last enabled warship typing destroyed in odessa. now moscow says the hyper existing strike a hit the ship can show you some of the unverified images allegedly shining. the moment of the attack. more developments right here on the program with all these steve sweeney of these special operations policies. this is

a unit by you staying a chechnya has starting to make and volunteers it gets ukrainian through to me. k town of modern cannot. this is about 30. could all meant to, to the west of a don't yet. this is up to you cruise with this is a ukrainian stronghold, i mean, is being used to belong to attracts on a civilian navies on residential areas since fighting began in 2014. now we also heard the ministry say that ukraine had lost some $200.00 soldiers in the throne, yet region along with a range of military harbor. and now this includes uh, a number of, uh ahmed vehicles and transport vehicles. and at least uh, 2 of these uh, multiple logs will consistence of every game use so effectively into deadly effect on the civilian populations have. and as we heard in the page that the last ukranian warship has also been strong, struck uh, some rather off. it was struck in a presentation striking the pulled city of

a desk. so now it was somebody the in the last 24 hours it russian defense system, which was working so hard to keep it on boss region. save up down to a number. so they said 12 rootkits launched by the us applied high miles system, along with one of the storm shadow is a these are the long range missiles that were supplied by the british government, as announced by the defend 63 ben boys in mid may. now this comes is like just developed, these latest developments come off to at least 5 people believed to be construction, work for killed and at least 19 were wounded in ukrainian. okay. talk on a bulky form in new guns, but the latest developments you can probably have maybe perhaps shedding. there's been a tax on the residential and civilian areas across don't yet. city today we've seen smoke billowing also the will. kids have impacted on that target. so these latest

developments will potentially bring something for relief for the people of don't pass who of course, have come under the 80 attack for the last 9 years. meanwhile, in little guns got 5 people have been killed and 19 wounded. all i may do friday and shedding a local poultry farm and the village of con, passing was repeatedly struck here. we can show you some of the off them off on the damage done to the building site there and apparently a vehicle as well. so the data believe to be, as we understand a civilian construction, watkins and the town of us you back, you know, in a rush or belgrade region that was also head during the overnight, i was leased a full people were wounded. there will show us some, some uh images from the scene. several residential buildings were damaged. the cars as well, followed to another attack on the board, a border area, i should say just a bit earlier this week. it did leave a civilian dead and 2 more wounded when a refugee center was talking to a local officials have not begun to evacuate children from several board of

districts with the 1st group of 300 leaving the region today. but washington is a ministry i to ukraine. it needs a review that's according to us congresswoman ill hand omar, who says a tax on russian territory including the region, drones, stripes on moscow, which does all have the cool, i say, suggest the cool for well that of a new calculation. there is an escalation where you cream is now lighting inside of flesh and causing lives to be lost in that regard. but then you would have to make a different calculation if there are ukrainians that are now attacking russians in russia. that changes all of this all comes in the off to boss evaluated writing on strikes of coal. it's on the russian capital and the region, at least one civilian was wounded, the middle of it, it's all been cold and to terrorism. i've let them in food and, and electrically,

and it wasn't a response to the russians, shutting over ukrainian military intelligence headquarters in kia and several prominent western politicians have said the key has every right to attack russian territory. well, that's a course live. how to of the times reported liam calls grove, who actually got that statement from the congress women, liam, it's great to have you on the program and thank you very much for joining us. yeah, i mean, just to off the top of my head is, is there, is there any chance that the narrative could be changing for the democrats in washington? what does, what does that come with women's response? tell us, what are your thoughts? well, thanks for having me and um, i think the response is interesting and i think it is a bit helpful that we are entering towards the potential for piece docs. and, you know, she was dissenting with a lot of her democrats colleagues by saying that are these, some of them that is the official by the administration position as well as that we do not support shrikes and ukraine, but it's good to hear these operations stripes being directly called out and

directly question because it is, it is a dangerous escalation. um, i hope this is the 1st step towards coming to the negotiating table and we'll see we'll, we'll see what we'll see. what happens. do you have it? you think you think how come i sure you will get any, any attention? i mean, is it getting attention in the western press or any comments out of the binding? whitehouse is um it is. uh it just, i mean i just posted it yesterday. i've been trying to spread it around. i haven't seen too much in the mainstream media. that's part of the problem here in the west . i will be heading to the state department and the pentagon, where i go frequently to press briefings that i will be asking them about. i will be mentioning those comments and hopefully, you know, i'm sure they'll reiterate their, their statement of we do not support strikes on ukraine, but, but you've got to get more than the statement when it's actually happening quite frequently now. and it, it is, it is scary, how much is escalating? and like i said, i think i think comments like this are healthy. we need to be having this kind of

defense here at home and talking about what's holding aid if they're going to be using that a on russian territory because that's not what we signed up for. that's not what americans sign up for. well, i mean, this is just said, i mean when you use the word escalation, for example, it's a lot of people are saying is very wiring the position where we're in right now. and, you know, hopefully there is some sort of descent in the political establishment in washington to, to, to see perhaps some sort of winding back of the amount of weapons in cash being sent to ukraine. i mean, i mean, literally i'm, you know, washington set for writers. we're not going to spend the time space on the time space that we're not going to send the patriot. they sent the patriot, they say they're not going to send the f 16, but we know how this story goes. do you think liam, just the average american have a clue, frankly, about the sheer amount of resources being pushed into ukraine as, as binding. the said we will continue to support ukraine as long as necessary. i, you know, i think that's a great question and the answer is no. i don't think a lot of americans are not privy to all this. and they need to be. they need to be

many are i will say many are waking up to kind of the risk of this war and, and how much we've, we've got involved. but um, even the congressman, you know, i asked several congressmen that day about the strikes in in moscow. those kamikaze drowns, and about half of the congressmen and senators were like, oh, you know, i haven't even heard of those reports yet. so even some of our congressmen are not totally aware of this. we're getting so bogged down with like our debt ceiling debates and issues here at home. and, and, and really people need to be paying attention to this because this is, you know, it's, it's to nuclear powers engaged in this proxy war. and it needs to end as soon as possible. we should be, you know, bite and including, or whoever blinking and med video should be talking every day. if not at least every week. and you know, just like j, f, k and, and crew shifted back in during the cuban missile crisis days. we should be talking

every day. we should be walking back from the brink of nuclear war as opposed to escalating towards it. and, and i would encourage both administrations to start talking please. well we, we've had a lot of it pretend in, in, in recent weeks is recent days and reason week saying that we're always ready to talk about some sort of peaceful resolution to what's happening in ukraine. so get off it off, keeps saying, we're open to folks. and then you have, you know, the entity vitamins that lensky he was invited, couldn't city the other day? the pump? i mean, the pope was proposing a peaceful resolution for the competing ukraine. lensky said no therapy and other european leaders incognito privately, pressuring zalinski to come to some sort of negotiating table. he keeps saying, no, we know that when this little kicks off, over a year ago, boris johnson forcibly scuffled the peaceful, to stop. peace from coming. why is it liam, why is it that there are sites there are people in this conflict that have every desire to escalate to make it more was i'm.